OPEN FORUM

Do you have something on your mind?  Do you need answers to lingering questions?  Or do you just need a place to engage with other people?  The new “Forum” page will serve as a place for visitors to make comments, start new discussions not related to any of the blog posts, make suggestions or just hang out.  If you want to participate, please abide by the following rules:   

  1. Respect the sacred.  No offensive comments about God, His prophets or His religion.
  2. No spam. All automated messages and advertisements will be deleted.
  3. Respect other users. No abusing of fellow forum members. While comments will not be moderated, continued abusive behavior will result in the deletion of comments or the commenter being banned from the blog.
  4. No threats or harassment of other users will be tolerated. Any instance of threatening or harassing behavior will result in being banned.
  5. No profanity or pornography is allowed. Posts containing such material will be deleted.
  6. Do not post copyrighted material.

3,983 thoughts on “OPEN FORUM

  1. mr.heathcliff

    “They both used to eat”

    The one who was dependant on food and oxygen cannot be the authour of food and his own breath.

    This is the message of the prophets

    Liked by 2 people

  2. XYZ

    What are your thoughts on Bart Ehrman’s “Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife”? I find it very hard to reconcile with the Islamic narrative. The absence of Heaven and Hell in the Hebrew Bible contradicts the Islamic claim of a singular religion preached from the time of Abraham that was later corrupted. For such a core doctrine to be omitted from all the books of the Hebrew Bible written by various authors across hundreds of years seems impossibly unlikely. Also according to Ehrman, Jesus did not believe in an eternal Hell but instead in annihilationism.

    Like

      1. So I took some time and skimmed through Ehrman’s arguments coz I was curious about his claim about Jesus and hell…. loads of assumptions in there…like somehow he assumes Matt 25:45 is talking about annihilation when in other places Jesus mentions some very specific details about suffering in the afterlife plus he ignores the contextual usage of the greek vis a vis the heavenly afterlife
        And he did believe in heaven didn’t he…
        As for the old testament, as everyone knows it does affirm an afterlife tho Ehrman is correct that we find no mention whatsoever of heaven or hell…from a Muslim perspective, those books have a shady history spanning over only a minuscule line compared to thousands of years of Jewish history so whatever it edifies betokens nothing much….
        It’s possible the Jews may have believed in heaven and hell thousands of years afore those books and with time their teachings, edifications and interpretations of their oral traditions transmuted i.e at one point they may have gone through a split such as something similar to Pharisees vs Sadducees who had differences in regards to afterlife too….so yeah….not really important….

        Like

    1. stewjo004

      @XYZ

      1. “What are your thoughts on Bart Ehrman… I find it very hard to reconcile with the Islamic narrative…”

      First point is Ehrman is not receiving revelation. All he did was put in laymen’s terms issues their scholars have known about their text for over 200 years. As Allah says he like all kuffar makes his opinions about Jesus(as) out of guesses and assumptions of what he arbitrarly agrees is authentic versus what is not. For example, there are about NINE major views of who the historical Jesus(as) was and what he taught not just Ehrman’s one position.

      http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

      So while Ehrman is good at showing issues with the their text he is not some all knowing authority.

      “The absence of Heaven and Hell in the Hebrew Bible contradicts the Islamic claim of a singular religion preached from the time of Abraham that was later corrupted. For such a core doctrine to be omitted from all the books of the Hebrew Bible written by various authors across hundreds of years seems impossibly unlikely.”

      Based on what…the completely abridged book written by anomous heretics? Quoting from Dr. Joel Hoffman in his book “The Bible’s Cutting Room Floor” states (emphasis mine):

      “The Bible you usually read is the ABRIDGED version. Its contents were CULLED from a much LARGER SELECTION OF HOLY SCRIPTURES when new realities forced religious leaders to discard some of their most cherished and sacred books, resulting in what we now call the Bible. Some writings were left out for political or theological reasons, others simply because of the physical restrictions of ancient bookmaking technology. At times, the compilers of the Bible skipped information that they assumed everyone knew. Some passages were even omitted by accident. For these reasons and more, your Bible doesn’t give you a complete picture. […]Underlying all of these differences is the simple fact that there used to be lots of holy writings, and different groups of people compiled different collections of them to form a single book.”

      So Ehrman has went on a tirade about what Jesus(as) and others believed when we don’t even have the majority of the texts let alone the random forgeries in there. As much as that was sufficient, furthermore neither the Tawrat nor Injeel are “the Bible”. Too long to get in it right now but short and sweet these are revelations given to Jesus(as) and Moses(as) not the time they got it. The “Bible” is basically a glorified hadith book filled with weak and forged narrations so you can take it all with the lowest of grains of salt.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. mr.heathcliff

        Stew remember the guy you addressed on yourphariseefriend? The guy is back :

        I ask them, ” How many creators are there or can there be?” off coarse they answer “one.”

        This will show how ignorant this cup cake is, there are MANY creators, God is the best of them .

        “I ask “can God share his creator-ness with another?” “no, because creating is not just what God does, its what he is, IE he is the “be-er” of all possible existence, ”

        The quran never says like pagan texts that power is “SHARED” with creation

        “creator is one of his names, but that indicates its his essential characteristic.” ”

        God is creator , has power over everything, is perfect in power, is ruler, wills things into existence.

        “I point out to them that Jesus in the Quran is described as creating life from non living matter,”

        1. Thats because u r a pagan who imposes on the quran your pagan thoughts.

        In the quran, God saying “be” is what gives life.

        The word “akluku” and “anfakhu” can be used for other than God

        The word “kun” cannot be used for other than God

        Gods permission for things to exist is tied with His will,

        so jesus blowing or SHAPING something is no different then the giant ball of light giving its light by gods permission which is tied to gods will. U cannot say god does not will what he permits.

        ” something only God does, that only God can do.”

        “Ahsanu khalikeen”

        Other than God make things.

        “They will say “well, he does it by God’s leave,” ignoring that their own previous statements and beliefs/philosophy about how God properly works would make that sentiment impossible.”

        This is because u r ignorant of quranic perspective.

        “That is why I tell them its a bit hypocritical for them in particular to call the Christians morons for Christian belief in a divine Jesus.”

        No muslim believes that God shares His powers with created things.

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        Here is the cup cake making t
        Up the same nonsense:

        I ask them, ” How many creators are there or can there be?” off coarse they answer “one.” I ask “can God share his creator-ness with another?” “no, because creating is not just what God does, its what he is, IE he is the “be-er” of all possible existence, creator is one of his names, but that indicates its his essential characteristic.” IE God cannot do the impossible, such as make a second God.

        I point out to them that Jesus in the Quran is described as creating life from non living matter, something only God does, that only God can do.

        They will say “well, he does it by God’s leave,” ignoring that their own previous statements and beliefs/philosophy about how God properly works would make that sentiment impossible.

        That is why I tell them its a bit hypocritical for them in particular to call the Christians morons for Christian belief in a divine Jesus.

        https://judaismresources.net/2022/01/05/test-of-love-2/#comment-163978

        Like

      3. XYZ

        So your claim is that the full, unabridged Bible could possibly contain the doctrine of Heaven and Hell? f the doctrine had really existed, at some point one of the authors, authors dispersed across centuries, would have made at least a passing reference to it. We don’t need all the texts to to come to the conclusion that the probability of its existence amongst the Israelites at that time was astronomically low.
        Why do we see descriptions of the afterlife in the Hebrew Bible that gravely contradict the Islamic view? Sheol is quite distant from the Islamic afterlife.
        In the book you cite, Hoffman states in Chapter 8 that to the people of the time, the Bible was a “representative sample of a larger set of favourite texts”. Can we conclude from Hoffman’s statement that the unabridged Bible would likely not contain mention of the Islamic afterlife, since the Bible we have is a “representative sample”?
        The word “jahannam” is derived from the Valley of (the son of) Hinnom, Hebrew “gei-(ben)-Hinnom”, a place in Jerusalem that the Israelites saw as a desecrated place of slaughter as children were burnt there as offerings to pagan deities. It first became a place of divine punishment in the apocryphal 1 Enoch, two centuries before Jesus. Why does the Quran use this word with very human origins, evolving from a cursed valley outside Jerusalem to the otherworldly place of punishment depicted later on in Jewish and Christian literature? Being the verbatim Word of God, the Quran chooses every word deliberately and with the utmost precision. What did God mean by identifying Hell with the Valley of Hinnom? Is God putting His stamp of approval on centuries of Jewish and Christian embellishments of a valley outside Jerusalem?

        For centuries, Israelites were totally ignorant of the doctrine of Heaven and Hell. Why did the prophets sent to them not remind them of what they had somehow forgotten? Why did these prophets not correct the rampant corruption of holy scripture? They did manage to preserve a substantial portion of the stories of Biblical figures that the Quran takes as historical fact (“preserved” according to the Islamic point of view), so why was this fundamental doctrine not preserved? For Heaven and Hell to have originally been in the Hebrew Bible but intentionally taken out later would require a conspiracy of ahem, Biblical proportions.

        Like

      4. @ XYZ

        1. “So your claim is that the full, unabridged Bible could possibly contain the doctrine of Heaven and Hell?”

        Who knows there is no text to look at to say one way or the other. The ones making the claim “it doesn’t exist” have to prove that. And the best they have can be broken down as:

        “Well this text (the Bible) that we have no existence for until over a thousand years after its author’s (Moses’s) death, has two major transmission breaks where they straight up lost it as per their own admission, that we know for a fact has been altered and grabbed from larger texts that didn’t survive due to purposeful alterations, lack of bookmaking technology, the afterlife straight up doesn’t even speak about and we have no idea who wrote it doesn’t say something. Therefore we can conclude it doesn’t exist” is a straight-up retarded argument. I have no surviving writings from my great, great, great, great, great grandfather and nobody ever mentioned him therefore he must not exist either.

        2. “…if the doctrine had really existed, at some point one of the authors, authors dispersed across centuries, would have made at least a passing reference to it. We don’t need all the texts to to come to the conclusion that the probability of its existence amongst the Israelites at that time was astronomically low.’

        Do you mean like how they mention the afterlife all throughout the text in what we have now? :/

        3. “Why do we see descriptions of the afterlife in the Hebrew Bible that gravely contradict the Islamic view? Sheol is quite distant from the Islamic afterlife.”

        For one we don’t really see any descriptions at all and because…the Jewish Soferim the only dudes who could even read their texts to begin with, were a bunch of corrupt dudes who stole from the pagan religions around them said this was from God and just made sh!t up as they went along? (*cough* Book of Esther *cough* Darius the Mede* cough* whew excuse me)

        4. In the book you cite, Hoffman states in Chapter 8 that to the people of the time, the Bible was a “representative sample of a larger set of favourite texts”. Can we conclude from Hoffman’s statement that the unabridged Bible would likely not contain mention of the Islamic afterlife, since the Bible we have is a “representative sample”?

        Lol no? FAVORITE is the keyword in your last sentence i.e we all like this story let’s talk about it again. For example, if all copies of the Quran were to be destroyed and all hafiz died we would probably be able to still reconstruct Juz Amma and Fatiha as they are a common favorite that is recited from every day. But we just lost all of our law systems as off the top of my head there is no references in Juz Amma. So now imagine some jack@$$e$ almost three thousand years later come and say:

        “Well there are no surviving mentions of inheritance and alcohol prohibition in our surving Quran (as they’re not aware this is only a single juz of it) so we can conclude the early Muslim community didn’t believe in it either.” Sounds retarded right? I agree.

        5. “The word “jahannam” is derived from the Valley of (the son of) Hinnom, Hebrew “gei-(ben)-Hinnom”, a place in Jerusalem that the Israelites saw as a desecrated place of slaughter as children…” (Blah,blah,blah)

        Thank you for proving my point on how kuffar all make assumptions with no evidence. You assumed that is where “Jahannam” derives from when it’s actually a Persian word for “torture chamber” (“Jahnam”) (26:44)

        https://muslimcentral.com/nouman-ali-khan-098-bayyinah-b/

        So whoever you read from to say what you said went: “Dur, this word kinds sounds like this word (even though the word is used in Mecca before there was even Jewish contact) so it must mean that dur) This is why we don’t take kuffar scholarship seriously.

        6. “For centuries, Israelites were totally ignorant of the doctrine of Heaven and Hell.”

        You assume.

        7. “Why did the prophets sent to them not remind them of what they had somehow forgotten?”

        You assume.

        8. “Why did these prophets not correct the rampant corruption of holy scripture?”

        You assume. Also even in their surviving texts, they have the prophet Jeremiah(as) telling them they corrupted the Torah:

        “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the (Torah) of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (Jeremiah 8:8)

        9. “They did manage to preserve a substantial portion of the stories of Biblical figures that the Quran takes as historical fact (“preserved” according to the Islamic point of view), so why was this fundamental doctrine not preserved?”

        No, they didn’t lol? Stories are completely different. Please see my point regarding “dur and words”

        10. “For Heaven and Hell to have originally been in the Hebrew Bible but intentionally taken out later would require a conspiracy of ahem, Biblical proportions.”

        To begin just stop with the lame puns. Next, who said it was deliberate? There is a multitude of ways off the top of my head:

        A. Lost the actual revelation they had from Moses (as) for some odd reason and then paraded a new text they made up around as that revelation. The actual revelations were oral traditions that were written only to supplement but later followers got weak in memory or laziness and thus lost stuff.
        B. They didn’t care about the afterlife so they didn’t record it (which is fair considering they don’t mention it at all even in their current fanfiction and the few minute descriptions we have from the “various authors” that your argument is based around don’t even agree on it and many Jews TO THIS DAY still don’t care about it)
        C. Bookmaking technology was limited and so many parts were lost due to human laziness.
        D. As they were making up their stuff as they went along stuff got deleted because it clashed and nobody wanted to admit they were wrong or they thought the made-up stuff was right and so they let authentic stuff go thinking it was made up.

        All it takes to show how quickly something can go south is looking at Early Christianity or Islam. Imagine the Gnostics or the Sabaʾiyya sects became dominant deleted a bunch of stuff and people having only their first works a thousand+ years later argued about what those early communities believed? We would be looking at completely different religions today and they popped up 30 years or less after their prophets.

        In conclusion kuffar are retarded and that’s why they’re fuel for Hell. Any questions, comments or concerns so far?

        Like

      5. stewjo004

        @ XYZ

        Also, final point on the “Jahannam” point even if we went with that the word isn’t Persian (even though considering Hell’s other frequent name in the Quran “Jaheem” is also Persian I see no reason it’s not) and it is the valley etc…that doesn’t just “put a stamp on a very human word blah, blah, blah” it would be what we call a “loan word” in language. For example, in English, we use the word “Hell” when translating “Jahannam” that doesn’t mean we English speakers think of Hel’s domain from Norse mythology when we use it even though that’s its origins. In our language, we adopted this word as a description of a place of punishment in the afterlife and everyone understands that. This also happens with other languages as well because they evolve and i could easily argue that was the case here.

        Like

  3. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh,

    Guys, I intend to raise an anti-terror organization which I call it “Al Islamiyyah Waal Jamaah” which is an anti-terror organization that focuses on reviving and implementing the Sunnah of Prophet and Shariah of allah correctly, whole and fully.

    And I wish to wipe out ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas and Al Hazimiyyah.

    My questions are:

    1. Is it permitted or prohibited for me to ask Allah Almighty To assure me that anti-terror organizations will keep on appearing until the Day of Judgement?
    2. Will their good deeds fall back on me after my death?
    3. Will this be true Jihad?
    4. If I will die, I’ll be true martyr of Islam?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Mr. Heathcliff

        I’m having a hard time following their logic. Jesus(as) performs a miracle involving creating a living thing out of a nonliving thing with God’s permission as the Quran clearly states and they are claiming this is “sharing power”? Okay… Moses (as) and the staff becoming a snake their mythology regarding golems… Anyways moving on…

        Don’t some of them like Kabbalists believe that the angels share some of God’s powers like Metatron?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. mr.heathcliff

        Its not the yahood its that idiot ex-krister “concerned reader”

        the moron thinks that isa shaping and blowing into a bird inplies Allah DELEGATED His powers to another, but we know that the Quran says that saying “be” is never delegated to another.

        Allah even says He is the best of creators which implies noun of magnification and superlative

        Like

      3. mr.heathcliff

        Ofcourse when this moron is making an argument, he needs to assume

        1. Occassionalism

        Or

        2. Concurrentism

        3. God is not involved

        1=Allah is the cause of.everything

        2. Allah is not the cause of everything, for example, the sun has its own ability to give light as a second dependant cause . Allah = primary cause. Creation = secondary dependant cause

        3. God delegated His powers to other than He

        so the mushrik says “Other than Allah is creating” without informing the people UNDER which assumption he is assuming ? 1 , 2 or 3 ?

        Like

      4. stewjo004

        @ Mr. Heathcliff

        The first point is we can say he’s officially a pagan as that is what they believe that the high/sky god delegated authority to other ones. Next, no need to even get into this fancy philosophical mumbo jumbo as it doesn’t defeat my original point. Simple, Jesus performs his miracles through God’s permission (I’ll use this as opposed to “leave” as it paints a better picture) EVERY prophet does their miracles by God’s permission sothere’s nothing unique here which is the entore verse’s point which is why it keeps emphasizing it. If he wants to continue:

        What else in the Quran is done by God’s permission besides Jesus’s miracles?

        1. Gabriel
        So tell them: “Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, who by God’s Permission, has brought this down onto your heart…(2:97)

        2. Armies
        “When Saul crossed the river along with the faithful who were with him, they cried: “We have no hope this day against Goliath and his armies.” Those who knew that they would one day meet their Lord said: “How many times have few overcome many by God’s will? God is with those who are patient and persevere!”…” (2:249)

        3. Dying
        “No soul can ever die except by God’s permission at a deadline already written…” (3:145)

        4. Faith
        “No one will believe except by God’s permission, He makes filth settle on those who do not use their intellect.” (10:100)

        “Then I gave to My chosen servants, the Scripture as an inheritance. Some of them did themselves wrong, some stayed in between, and some by God’s permission were first and foremost in doing good and that is no doubt the greatest favor.” (35:32)

        Okay so now we have a “base” of an author’s work. Does anyone want to argue that a soul is delegated authority to die? Makes no sense. What about faith? Nope. Armies are given delegation. So yeah that argument is bad and shows the hidden pagan thoughts harbored behind the guise of monotheism.

        Like

  4. XYZ

    Before any surah in the Quran is read, “‘audhoobillahi min ash-Shaytan ar-Rajeem” is recited, and yet Satan as later understood by Christians and Muslims is not present in the Hebrew Bible. Did the Israelites go for centuries not knowing who their greatest enemy was?

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ YKz

      Sure if you ignore the Book of Job and Jewish oral traditions. (You can also add the oral traditions to my heaven/hell point btw)

      Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s