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  1. mr.heathcliff

    answering christology

    waiting for an answer on the following questions :

    In the gospel of john, it is reported that , “destroy this temple and in three days i will raise it up”
    but then it verses 22 it says “he was RAISED up”
    refer to john 2:19-22.
    can this mean that god brought jesus back to life and then jesus simply got up like everyone gets up from a lying position? in other words, john is not saying that jesus took part in bringing himself back to life like god did, he simply got up from his straight position on the floor?


  2. mr.heathcliff

    this is ijaz ahmed latest challenge to the crosstians.

    it is the crosstians who say “that was the ot”

    the problem here is that, the ot NEVER set up a criteria in which you follow just an “innocent,” the ot never says that one should not follow the people which God publicly verified (says the jews who belive in the kuzari argument)

    the ot never said that once a prophet repents of his IDOLATRY and adultery, one should not follow him

    the laws were given to sinners and god never once says that moses is limited JUST to the land of israel….moses says even when you are in exile “obey EVERYTHING i tell you today”


  3. mr.heathcliff

    Complaining About the Camel-Urine Treatment?! Let Me Introduce Hoodbhoyists to “Poop Pills”
    APRIL 1, 2021 / SAAD MEHMOOD
    Dawkinists, Hoodbhoyists and some theists, including “mode-run” Muslims, often object to the Hadeeth in which the Prophet.p prescribed camel milk and urine to a group of visitors in Madeena as a cure to some disease. In response to their objection, some Muslims have argued that doctors often prescribe Premarin to women as a part of female hormone replacement therapy to treat estrogen deficiency symptoms [1]. This medicine, which is available as a tablet and as well as a topical cream, is made from the urine of pregnant horses (PREgnant MARes’ urINe), so, the argument goes, if doctors can prescribe medication made from horse urine, why can the Prophet.p not? In other words, if using a medicine that is made from horse urine is all good, then why frown on the Hadeeth if it prescribes camel urine as medicine, which, as per the Hadeeth, even cured the patients?

    Although the response makes it clear that we don’t consider camel urine sacred as some Hindu take cow urine to be, I deem, as careful thinkers would concur, this response is based on a weak analogy; however, we can do better than this!

    The version of Premarin that was sold in the late 1920s contained a mix of several estrogens which were derived from the ‘urine of pregnant women’, later on, scientists learned that it could be derived from the urine of pregnant horses, for horses produce a substantial amount of urine than humans [2]. Furthermore, conjugated estrogen can also be derived from plants [3].

    Where the Mistake Really Lies:

    In the camel-urine case, argues our skeptic friend, camel urine was prescribed in its raw form. In the case of Premarin, in contrast, the conjugated estrogens, which have the same chemical composition regardless of where they are found, are extracted, which, of course, is not the same thing as horse urine. Put differently, the tablet is not a solid form of horse urine, rather composed of the extracted (and some added) chemical ingredients needed to cure the disease [2,2a]. Someone might retort, “but at the time of the Prophet.p, there were no such extraction methods.” “But, that’s another way of conceding what I am pointing out,” replies the skeptic. The skeptic is right; giving someone extracted estrogens from horse urine is not the same as giving them horse urine, and if this is accepted, then don’t bring Premarin as a response to the original objection, for your appeal to the lack of technological and methodological advancements in your response concedes that the two treatments are dissimilar! For a valid analogical response, that is, the response that shows to the skeptic that “ If this is a problem, then you too have the same problem,” we’d have to bring against the original objection of the skeptic something similar, if not identical, to the camel-urine case.

    Can We Not Do Better Than the Premarin-response?

    Surely, we can, but before I outline the response, let’s understand that what the following Hadeeth IS and IS NOT saying:

    Anas reported:

    “Eight men of the tribe of ‘Ukl came to Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) and swore allegiance to him on Islam, but found the climate of that land uncogenial to their health and thus they became sick, and they made complaint of that to Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ), and he said: Why don’t you go to (the fold) of our camels along with our shepherd, and make use of their milk and urine. They said: Yes. They set out and drank their (camels’) milk and urine and regained their health. They killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. This (news) reached Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) and he sent them on their track and they were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). …..” [4]

    Camel urine is NOT sacred for Muslims, neither are they obligated to use it.
    We are not sure of the revelatory status of the treatment since He.p never explicitly said so, it could be that he was inspired to give this treatment, or maybe, he used what Arabs found useful given the words and the way they were uttered, “Why don’t you go to (the fold) of our camels along with our shepherd, and make use of their milk and urine.”
    Arguing From A Strong Analogy:

    Our skeptic friend argued that Premarin is a reasonable form of treatment, for it does not use horse urine in its raw form, rather it contains extracted (and some added) chemical ingredients only, whereas in the camel-urine case, raw urine was used for treatment, which he deems so unreasonable (and yucky) that he feels morally obligated to mock Islam, or God, or the Hadeeth literature, etc., To flabbergast my skeptic friend, I am going to introduce him to “Poop Pills” or “Fecal Transplantation” to cure C. difficile infection, that is, the infection (inflammation) of the colon (large intestine), which can cause frequent diarrhea, fever, nausea, etc., [5]. Each year about a half million people suffer from C. difficile in the United States [6]

    One way of treating C. difficile is Fecal Transplantation, employing colonoscopy (pretty painful and at times challenging though): “Doctors sometimes recommend a treatment to help repopulate the colon with healthy bacteria. It’s often done by putting another person’s stool in your colon using a device called a colonoscope..”[7]. But why go for it when we have “Poop Pills”: they contain either water-or-saline (salt-water)-mixed ‘healthy’ feces [8] or ‘frozen’ ones enclosed in a capsule [9], saving time, cost, and a more “pleasant” treatment than FMT: healthy and ready! (I know it sounds poopy!) Consequentially speaking, they found ‘swallowing Poop Pills’ to be as good as FMT [10][11] You now even have a “Nonprofit stool bank launched by MIT researchers ” [12] While some are using it to treat C. difficile, others have found that these pills have been shown effective in overcoming obesity![13][14] (You still wanna go to gym?!) In our modern times, poop pills can be prescribed to help reduce the suffering of humanity and is all reasonable, but the prophet’s prescription of camel urine for treatment is deemed unreasonable and yucky!

    I am not asserting that my Poop-pills example is perfectly analogous to drinking camel urine, of course, it differs in minor details, for instance, that drinking camel urine has a higher yuck-factor than swallowing capsule filled with raw feces solution. However, the means of taking in the raw material was not an issue to begin with, rather the main concern is whether a waste product in its raw form or almost raw form was used for treatment or not. It’s instructive to know how poopy these poop pills are: Do they contain poop or just useful extracted bacteria? I emailed Justin Chen, Director of External Affairs, OpenBiome, one of the companies which is researching and promoting this treatment, and asked him to remark on what exactly is there in these poop pills, he replied:

    “The short answer is that our FMT preparations are made up of liquid and soluble components of poop as well as bacteria.

    The long answer is that we can consider poop to be made up of a few components including:

    indigestible foods like cellulose and extra fiber
    chemicals/molecules/metabolites like inorganic wastes, lipids, sugars
    Cells and cellular debris
    Fluid like water and bile
    The manufacturing process uses a 330 micron filter so components of poop that are larger than 330 microns will not be contained in our FMT preparations. Thus the final solution contains bacteria as well as the liquid and soluble components of poop and material that is smaller than 330 microns. Poop mainly gets its color from bile and bilirubin which would pass through the filter and be contained in the final solution along with the bacteria.” [Emphasis added] (This filtering is done to prevent the infusion syringes used to fill the capsules from getting clogged, see references)

    Thus, in our modern times, Poop-pills’ example is ‘reasonable’ enough to silence those who attack Islam or Hadeeth literature on account of this Hadeeth. Further, for the sake of argument, would the objector be happy if we brought in capsules of camel urine?!

    In conclusion, the “Poop-Pills response” is a befitting response to anyone who objects to the Hadeeth. The Irony is that the same objectors (for instance, Hoodbhoyists [15]) who are convinced of the nonexistence of God, or falsity of Islam or at least the whole Hadeeth literature on account of the “perverted-yucky” nature of this Hadeeth (demonstrating pretty bad critical thinking skills, could not repress my value judgment) will not mind ‘swallowing Poop Pills,’ or something similar if approved by modern medicine, and announcing its efficacy to the world!


    [2a] “PREMARIN® (conjugated estrogens tablets, USP) for oral administration contains a mixture of conjugated estrogens purified from pregnant mares’ urine and..” (Emphasis added)

    As per the European consensus conference on faecal microbiota transplantation in clinical practice, the “Minimum general steps to follow for the preparation of fresh and frozen faecal material
    Fresh faecal material

    Fresh stool should be used within 6 hours after defecation
    To protect anaerobic bacteria, the storage and preparation should be as brief as possible
    Until further processing, the stool sample can be stored at ambient temperature (20°C–30°C)
    Anaerobic storage and processing should be applied if possible
    A minimum amount of 30 g of faeces should be used
    Faecal material should be suspended in saline using a blender or manual effort and sieved in order to avoid the clogging of infusion syringes and tubes
    A dedicated space, disinfected using measures that are effective against sporulating bacteria, should be used
    Protective gloves and facial masks should be used during preparation
    Frozen faecal material

    At least 30 g of donor faeces and 150 mL of saline solution should be used
    Before freezing, glycerol should be added up to a final concentration of 10%
    The final suspension should be clearly labelled and traceable, and stored at –80°C
    On the day of faecal infusion, faecal suspension should be thawed in a warm (37°C) water bath and infused within 6 hours from thawing
    After thawing, saline solution can be added to obtain a desired suspension volume
    Repetitive thawing and freezing should be avoided ”(emphasis added)
    In this video one can see how these pills can be made at home.
    Another was launched in 2020 in Poland,

    Share this:


  4. mr.heathcliff

    The perfect storm 9-4-21

    0:00 opening by hamza
    6:03 trini the troll 🤣
    9:14 Michael (jason burn’s friend) the bible is reliable
    38:24 BoyfromOslo – the world descended from noah’s sons
    41:23 Rob MTT- baptize In the name of the father, jesus and holy spirit / the inconsistencies are just different angles
    1:11:25 Terry (screen name too long)
    1:17:45 Sso – if the quran affirms injil why question christianity? And Consistent deflection to islam
    2:19:34 Christian king (sam)
    2:25:14 Terry- too many tangent


  5. Vaqas Rehman

    I haven’t finished reading this yet but it seems pretty interesting nonetheless so I thought I’d post it here.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “Is her name asherah or some other deity?”

      mary, the sophia of yhwh

      …., and it was called Mary, and Christ was in her womb for seven months”. So this work depicts the Holy Spirit in angelomorphic fashion and construes this power as Jesus’ mother, identified as Mary.


  6. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    Hey isn’t there a prophecy by musa peace be upon him where he said that a prophet among the brethren of the children of Israel would be sent to them. Was this prophecy ever fulfilled according to the Jews?


    1. Vaqas Rehman

      @Caliph ibn mumthaz

      The prophecy you’re speaking of is in Deuteronomy 18:18 as well as partially earlier in verse 15. As far as I’m aware many Jews interpret the prophecy as either being fulfilled in Joshua alayhis salam, or they view it as a generic prophecy of many future prophets.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    I thought its a prophecy about Muhammad peace and blessings upon him tho. Is this interpretation by the Jews a later one or its an old one? Furthermore, are there other prophecies about Muhammad that is mentioned in the torah?


    1. Vaqas Rehman


      While we as Muslims generally view it as a prophecy of the Prophet Muhammad ṣallā -llāhu ʿalayhī wa-ʾālihī wa-sallam the Jews tend to disagree with that interpretation is all it is. I’m unaware of exactly how old their interpretation is but the idea that the prophecy is unfulfilled and about a singular great prophet is at least as old as the dead sea scrolls. You can view the general Muslim argument concerning that prophecy as well more on this website

      Liked by 1 person

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