OPEN FORUM

Do you have something on your mind?  Do you need answers to lingering questions?  Or do you just need a place to engage with other people?  The new “Forum” page will serve as a place for visitors to make comments, start new discussions not related to any of the blog posts, make suggestions or just hang out.  If you want to participate, please abide by the following rules:   

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3,683 thoughts on “OPEN FORUM

  1. Larry

    @ STEW

    Besides this verse being a bunch of nonsense, Larry you are either God or you’re not, if something no longer has God’s qualities it is not God period. For example, if there is ever a time God doesn’t know something even if for a moment, one cannot say God is “All-Knowing” nor can He give Himself that title. So I’ll ask again and please respond with a simple yes or no:

    You are not completely wrong to think or say that, but what you are not getting is God is spirit and spirit doesn’t have Flesh like us. That’s why when Jesus came into the world he has to give up his divine privileges in other for him to be Human not God. I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?… You people don’t believe in the spiritual things that’s why its difficult for you to understand things of Spiritual nature .. How can you understand God when God is spirit and you don’t have spiritual understanding.

    This is exactly what I wanted to talk to you guys about next… How Mohamed lied and also to prove his not a real prophet .. Muslims don’t know God, they only know Mohamed.. You don’t really understand God… Mohamed came and lied about bible is fake, Christianity is fake and the whole Jesus being son of God is fake. The stories in the bible, the Laws and commands go back as over 2000yrs of God speaking to people and telling them what to do and how to do it before Mohamed came and said everything written in the bible is corrupted ,, Then all of a sudden what God has been doing for over 2000yrs we should forget it because it has been corrupted and follow what Allah told Mohamed in the space of 23yrs that totally go against what God stands for.

    So when we say Jesus is God we are referring to what John 1:1 said… we are letting people know that the WORD in John 1:1 became flesh and dwelt among us and as we know the WORD in John 1:1 is GOD so simple. So the question for you is this.

    1 Do you believe what John Chapter 1 says to be true ?

    2 Either you believe and accept John 1 or Not lets go to according to what bible says .Do you believe the Word is Jesus ?

    This will make thing easier for all of us.

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “You are not completely wrong to think or say that, but what you are not getting is God is spirit and spirit doesn’t have Flesh like us. ”

      jesus is flesh and blood u moron, he says a spirit does not have flesh and bones. Ergo the person of your god was flesh and bone

      “That’s why when Jesus came into the world he has to give up his divine privileges in other for him to be Human not God.”

      So the pre-incarnate person in jonh 1:1 and human person of jesus are identical? In other words u worship a human person lol

      or in your case a human person WITH no divine attributes lol

      ” I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.”

      Idiot. Your god can cease to exist or become satan, i dont care..but when you say “god is powerful”

      We obviously dont mean he is able to be other than he or a statement of god being a POWERLESS creature like a man.

      .” do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?… ”

      Stupid idiotic question.
      all things are UNDER the power and dominion of god, god is not UNDER his power LOL…this would make his power greater than he.

      Your dumb question makes no sense

      It is like saying “can god become blind even though he is all seeing” ?

      Examine the attribute. Blindness is WILLED into existence, how can something BROUGHT into existence put its EFFECT in god?

      “You people don’t believe in the spiritual things that’s why its difficult for you to understand”

      You are PUTTING PHYSICAL DEFECTS IN AN OMNI GOD U FREAKING RETARD

      “things of Spiritual nature .. How can you understand God when God is spirit and you don’t have spiritual understanding.”

      what drug do u smoke?

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      “The stories in the bible, the Laws and commands go back as over 2000yrs of God speaking to people and telling them what to do and how to do it before Mohamed came and said everything written in the bible is corrupted ,, Then all of a sudden what God has been doing for over 2000yrs we should forget it because it has been corrupted and follow what Allah told Mohamed in the space of 23yrs that totally go against what God stands for.”

      Pig, the jews had their rabbinic traditions which according to jews go all the way back to moses, but a pig like u will object to the traditions because ur pagan jebus didnt like them

      You also dont like what christian sects said about jebus. u will take issue with statements attributed to jesus by “heretical” sects…your hypocrisy stinks worse than blocked sewer.

      God in ot says that the priesthood will remain forever

      Where did god imagine that priesthood meant a pagan human sacrifice of a pagan saviour god in ot? paul the scum bag liar for jesus DISTORTS your torah and makes the eternal yhwistic ritualistic priesthood about his own pagan jebus ritual

      Like

    3. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “You are not completely wrong to think or say that,

      Okay, then boom Jesus(as) isn’t God, simple.

      2. “…but what you are not getting is God is spirit and spirit doesn’t have Flesh like us…”

      That is 115% completely irrelevant to God’s attributes.

      3. “…That’s why when Jesus came into the world he has to give up his divine privileges in other for him to be Human not God…”

      Again is he God or is he not God? Not that hard of a question. God is God no matter where He is. Are you arguing that God was NOT All-Knowing, All Seeing and All hearing at one point in time?

      B. “…I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?”

      Because it’s retarded to anyone who doesn’t follow your nonsensical religion. To begin let’s define “all things” again a simple question for you, can God be stupid? God does things worthy of His grandeur.

      PS

      1 Do you believe what John Chapter 1 says to be true ?

      Hell no. It’s stolen from a philosopher named Philo

      2 Either you believe and accept John 1 or Not lets go to according to what bible says .Do you believe the Word is Jesus ?

      Define your definition of the “Word”

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Lol, apparently donkey Larry’s god “had to give up his divine privileges” to become a human. Sounds to me like he thinks his Jesus was only a human while on earth. According to trinitarian theology, that’s heresy. This donkey doesn’t even know his own idiotic religion.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. mr.heathcliff

        “Again is he God or is he not God? Not that hard of a question. God is God no matter where He is. ”

        yes, this is why i said father, even if he was in a donkey would have dominion over anything , jesus on the other hand has a god who has DOMINION over him. he has a god.

        p1 . father is lord over all
        p2 . jesus is not lord over all
        p3. god is lord over all
        p4. god is the father, not jesus.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Larry

        The reason why I said let us put your understanding of God or Allah to test is to see how much you know about Spiritual activities, your answers shows you don’t have any ideal so there is no need addressing other questions I will just go straight to Word taking on flesh.

        Lol you said everything I typed I babble….I thought you were going to say there is nothing like Original Sin or you don’t believe in it… anyway if you read Leviticus you will see different types of sin and they all require sacrifice , Peace offering too and other offerings , Exodus 24:8 Moses sprinkled blood , Hebrews 9:19 and 9:21 Moses Sprinkled blood… so many verses in bible that shows sacrificing of animal and also Abraham situation with Isaac that you dodged which is in your Quran too ,God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to test him when Abraham passed the test God provided him a ram to sacrifice, Why cant God just say Abraham passed that’s enough but no God has to provide him a ram … Looking at the different events in bible including 1 that Quran stole from bible its clear there is something spiritual and important about shedding of blood… So like I said it was God that test Abraham and it was God that provided him with a ram…. Muslim don’t have problem with that story for some reason I don’t understand…. You didn’t ask why is it not enough for God to say Abraham passed the test and that’s enough, why must God provide ram when Abraham has already show faith in God … You didn’t ask why does God need him to shed blood? … is showing faith and obeying God not enough? You didn’t ask any of those questions… But when God gave the world his only son for sacrifice in other to take away our sin you have problem understanding it… what is the different in Abraham’s case and Jesus’s case… God provided ram for Abraham and He provides Jesus for the world … also it was after Abraham sacrifice the ram he got blessed same thing it was after Jesus was crucified we got saved.. If you think I babble, I didn’t you are the one that don’t understand Spiritual things that’s why it sounds foolish to you.. Like I said before you don’t have any ideal of Spiritual activities ..that is why you don’t know if you have Spirit, body and soul.. you believe you only have body and soul , you even contradicts yourself when you say things…you questioned why does God need Jesus to die for our sin, why cant God just forgive us as he has been doing but you didn’t question why is sacrificing ram so important to him that when Abraham don’t have ram he gave him one, and Like I said the whole world need to make a big sacrifice and we don’t have a ram that qualify to do it then God provides what we need in Jesus… its so simple but you have been told nonsense about Christianity that when you see truth you don’t even recognise it.

        Regarding Word and Jesus being the same and you said Jesus didn’t posses attributes of God… as I have explained before, in other for the WORD to become flesh to serve as a sacrificial lamb he has to empty himself or else it will not be possible for him to become a sacrificial lamb.. If he didn’t empty himself who will be able to stand God? Who will be able to get close to God or threating God or even question God like Jews did? I don’t know if you ever think about this before, you say Jesus cant be God.. if Jesus could raise a dead person.. open a blind eyes.. cure leprosy and the fake one in Quran gave life to a clay bird, how come the Jews are able to do all they did to him if its not planned to be like that? including catching him if you say they didn’t crucify him but at least they caught him and Allah swapped him with someone else according to Quran… how come they were able to threating him with all his powers ? I am sure taking life is very easy almost anyone can do it…but giving life only God can do it….how come he didn’t just destroy the Pharisees and other people giving him trouble? John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here… If he didn’t empty himself its obvious he will not be able to fulfil what he came to do and its important just the way other sacrifice especially the Abraham’s one

        Word is the same as Jesus, same way who you are here on earth does not posses the same attributes in Spiritual realm or do you posses same attribute in Spiritual realm? And doesn’t make who you are in spiritual realm different from who you are on earth .. If your name is Stew here on earth in spiritual realm if you are not Stew you will definitely be attached to Stew not someone else.. or whatever you do here on earth will not be associated with you in heaven ? … this is very simple there is Spiritual realm and physical …. Who we are is the same in both Spiritual and Physical but we posses different attributes but still remain the same person.. The world needed a sacrificial lamb same as Abraham and God provides it…

        My question to you which it will help us get things straight… why did God provide the Ram to Abraham ? why cant the faith be enough since he doesn’t have any ram with him
        Why did Moses kill ram and sprinkle the blood in different verses in the bible? Why is the blood important ?

        Like

      4. Donkey Larry, are you working on responding to me? Last time, you stalled for 2 weeks. Are you doing that again?

        You also didn’t respond to my point about the Ninevites. When they repented, God forgave them. They didn’t have to sacrifice anything. No shedding of blood was needed. And as Stew and Heath pointed out, in Hosea (you know, the prophet who was ordered by your god to commit adultery), repentance is emphasized, not blood atonement.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        Still avoiding the point of why you worship Jesus(as) when you and I both agree he doesn’t have God’s attributes I see…

        1. “… so many verses in bible that shows sacrificing of animal…”

        Yes and that is not the ONLY way you blood god worshipping pagan. Using your logic Muslim from this verse:

        Those of you who would say such a thing to their wives, then go back on what they’ve said, are to free a slave before the two of them may touch each other again. This is what you’re being counseled, and God knows what you do. (58:3)

        Believe the ONLY way God will forgive their sins is to free slaves so the ultimate slave had to come and be freed. This is not the case it is a specific rule in a specific situation not general.

        2. “…there is something spiritual and important about shedding of blood…”

        So you admit the Daddy is no different from the volcano god that demands virgin sacrifices then?

        3. “…You didn’t ask any of those questions…”

        Yes, I did an act of worship no matter what it is only matters because God legislated it. For example:

        …The penalty for breaking your vows, consists of either feeding ten poor people with the food you would give your own family on an average day, providing them with clothing or freeing a slave. Those who cannot afford any of this, are too fast for three days. That is the atonement for breaking your vows. So follow through with your promises and take them seriously. God makes His lessons and revelations clear to you in this way so that you can be thankful. (5:89)

        Why do I have to feed 10 poor people, give them clothes or free a slave or fast 3 days as an atonement for breaking an oath? Why can’t I just repent? Because that is what God legislated that’s it. That’s the only reason charity, prayer, fasting, etc matter is because God legislated the act. The same applies to sacrifices (which we have rules for as well) Nothing to do with God needing to be satiated by blood. Even if I wanted to use your poor understanding of God being a “spiritual creature” what does He need worldly blood for?

        4. “…what is the different in Abraham’s case and Jesus’s case…”

        One was a show of piety while the other is paganism that makes no sense.

        5. “…hat’s why it sounds foolish to you…”

        No…it sounds foolish because it is.

        6. “…you don’t know if you have Spirit, body and soul..”

        And you don’t know this question stems from Greek and Egyptian paganism

        7. “…Like I said the whole world need to make a big sacrifice…”

        Says who? Show me anywhere in the Hebrew bible where God claimed this.

        8. “…its so simple but you have been told nonsense about Christianity that when you see truth you don’t even recognise it….”

        Lol unlike you I grew up around Christians and the majority of my family is. YOU are the one who knows nothing about his religion and haven’t even read the book you claim to believe in.

        9. “…sacrificial lamb he has to empty himself or else it will not be possible for him to become a sacrificial lamb..”

        So according to your beliefs, God can become stupid, then interesting… Anyways once God “emptied” Himself as you put it He’s no longer God as the attribues are fundamentally who God is. So you can no longer say your god is All-Knowing, All-Hearing, All-Seeing, and Indepedent.

        10 “…you say Jesus cant be God.. if Jesus could raise a dead person.. open a blind eyes.. cure leprosy and the fake one in Quran gave life to a clay bird, how come the Jews are able to do all they did to him if its not planned to be like that?…… how come they were able to threating him with all his powers?

        Because Jesus(as) is a human who can do nothing except by God’s leave? That’s like asking why did Moses(as) flee from the Pharaoh after turning water to blood, sending plagues and locusts. Also this would show the weakness of your god as he begged to be saved from the Jews:

        Going a little farther, He fell to the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour would pass from Him. “Abba, Father,” He said, “all things are possible for You. Take this cup from Me. Yet not what I will, but what You will.” (Mark 14:35-36)

        So that means your god apparently didn’t know the plan and feared his creation in killing him.

        11. “…including catching him if you say they didn’t crucify him but at least they caught him and Allah swapped him with someone else according to Quran… ”

        As I’ve said before I don’t take this position of “switching” nor does the Quran ever say he(as) was caught.

        12. “…but giving life only God can do it….”

        Agreed hence it was a thing we call a “miracle” in this biz. If you use this argument then worship the prophet Elijah as well as he brought someone back to life (1 Kings 17: 17-24)

        13. John 18:36

        “John” ever being the odd man out in your fanfiction contradicts the Synoptics where Jesus(as) has the Disciples prepare to fight and protect him from the Jews (Luke 22:36-38)

        14. “Word is the same as Jesus… same way who you are here on earth does not posses the same attributes in Spiritual realm…”

        God is God no matter if He was in the Creation nor outside the creation. Your idol is weak and can be killed which contradicts the very attribute of God being the “Ever-Living”. You also like any pagan liken God to His creation when He is nothing like them.

        15. “why did God provide the Ram to Abraham ? why cant the faith be enough since he doesn’t have any ram with him…Why did Moses kill ram and sprinkle the blood in different verses in the bible? Why is the blood important ?”

        Because God can demand whatever he wants in His worship. He could order everybody to hop on one foot in the corner for an hour a day and it would be equivalnt to the ram sacrifice and blood sprinkle. God does what He wants when He wants.

        So to recap you have not only admitted Jesus(as) doesn’t have God’s attributes but you have also shown your God is limited (which is ironic as you call us that by saying He isn’t a part of His creation) by admitting anyone one of us can whoop His @$$ if He were to come on earth. This is what you left Islam for? Congradulations…

        Liked by 1 person

      6. stewjo004

        PS

        As a shower thought as I thought about your nonsense of the Daddy becoming weaker by entering our realm (like the greek gods of old) I REALLY have no need to fear him because theoretically, I should be able to enter the Spiritual realm and could power up on some Dragon Ball Z type ish and defeat him there as well and take his place which judging from the tower of Babel story he clearly fears. 🤔🤔🤔

        PSS

        The tower of Babel’s story defeats your BS about the “Physical” and “Spiritual” realms because “the Daddy” wouldn’t have feared that the people wouldn’t have reached the heavens if he resided in the “spiritual” realm and was All-Powerful. Seriously great move worshipping this bronze age idol…

        Like

      7. mr.heathcliff

        “Lol you said everything I typed I babble….I thought you were going to say there is nothing like Original Sin or you don’t believe in it… anyway if you read Leviticus you will see different types of sin and they all require sacrifice ”

        so lets see….god created blood and put power in blood to forgive sin? created thing has power to atone sins? you believe in blood magic ?

        “, Peace offering too and other offerings , ”

        what do peace offering and gratitude offering have to do with oriignal sin and sin?

        “Exodus 24:8 Moses sprinkled blood , Hebrews 9:19 and 9:21 Moses Sprinkled blood… so many verses in bible that shows sacrificing of animal and also Abraham situation with Isaac that you dodged which is in your Quran too ,God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to test him when Abraham passed the test God provided him a ram to sacrifice, ”

        is this about sin or the ACT (WORKS ) of killing an animal?
        so ? yhwh in the old testament requires physical human works lol

        WHAT ABOUT poor farmers? does the bible say they can offer VEGETABLES to yhwh? yes.

        “Why cant God just say Abraham passed that’s enough but no God has to provide him a ram …”

        do you think it was for blood magic you pagan? what was provided was eatten.

        people been eating meat for thousands of yrs

        ” Looking at the different events in bible including 1 that Quran stole from bible its clear there is something spiritual and important about shedding of blood…”

        you pig, there is nothing “spiritual” if it were , yhwh would have said, EAT blood for eternal life…..he didnt say this because the chapter start of with what is FORBIDDEN TO EAT

        the torah never says sacrifices are “important”

        the animal which carries away sins is LET GO OFF FOR IT TO GO INTO THE WILDERNEss…

        no sacrifice

        NO SACRIFICE

        so tell me, how DOES THE sun COOKING THE scape goat effect atonement WHEN THERE IS NO ACT OF SHEDDING?

        “So like I said it was God that test Abraham and it was God that provided him with a ram….”

        GODS creation. this had nothing to do with sin. it just proved abrahams Confidence in God

        jesus the PAGAN said “father take this cup away from me….”

        abraham didnt beg GOD to save his son .

        see the difference ?

        “Muslim don’t have problem with that story for some reason I don’t understand…. You didn’t ask why is it not enough for God to say Abraham passed the test and that’s enough, why must God provide ram when Abraham has already show faith in God … ”

        lets think like a kafir like u
        it appears then ANIMAL HAS QUALITY over HUMAN therefore GOD provided an animal, not jebus.

        why has God provided animals for consumption ? why has God been providing animals for consumption for thousands of years? AND THE verse demonstrate you save human life…

        and you are a pagan kafir, back then it was about giving up that which was CLOSEST TO YOU, a sacrifice of an animal was symbolic for the good in man in the sense of having trust and confidence in God

        it WAS not about the pagan ritual blood magic and watching animal SUFFER

        faith had to be demonstrated by deed and torah says sacrificial act is a DEED. lol

        human works. human rituals.

        there is no pagan blood magic here.

        “You didn’t ask why does God need him to shed blood? ”

        dOCTORS have to shed blood when they are operating. WHERE DOES it say “need”
        police officers have to shed BLOOD when they are controlling violence.
        what are you talking about you dipshit ?

        “… is showing faith and obeying God not enough? ”

        if i show faith and don’t shed the life of a CRIMINAL who did adultery, how is that enough ?

        Like

      8. mr.heathcliff

        IF I HAVE FAITH AND DONT SHED LIFE OF CRIMINAL WHO DID ADULTERY ,how is that enough? wink wink king david.

        “But when God gave the world his only son for sacrifice in other to take away our sin you have problem understanding it”

        no where in torah other HAVE guilt, repentance, or act of sacrifice for unintentional sins lol…

        YOU GOT TO DO IT YOURSELF .

        THIS IS WHY jebus GAY SELF ABUSE IS BULLSHIT!

        it is SEXUAL.” i want to HARM MY SELF because my god can’t forgive”

        you believe rapists RAPED poured into your god? rape RAPED jesus ?

        what ?

        “… what is the different in Abraham’s case and Jesus’s case… ”

        jesus cried like a little girl and COWARD while abraham was not like jesus

        “God provided ram for Abraham and He provides Jesus for the world ”

        lol, I could argue god provided ANIMALS FOR the world and the ACT OF sacrifice (the GIFTING OF THE DEED TO SACRIFICE) and jesus is USELESS redundant trash.

        GOD DONT NEED jesus to be merciful

        ABRAHAMS PROVISION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SIN OFFERING.

        “… also it was after Abraham sacrifice the ram he got blessed same thing it was after Jesus was crucified we got saved.. ”

        when did the torah law of sacrifice of animals for sins apply to gentile?

        ” Like I said before you don’t have any ideal of Spiritual activities ..that is why you don’t know if you have Spirit, body and soul.. ”

        ALL WILLED INTO EXISTENCE BY GOD

        “you believe you only have body and soul , you even contradicts yourself when you say things…you questioned why does God need Jesus to die for our sin,”

        if HE IS MERCIFUL AND FORGIVING, WHY HE NEED A PAGAN HUMAN SACRIFICE?
        imagine you are at the cross and drilling jesus and watching him suffer , you will say “the lord is merciful” ?

        “why cant God just forgive us as he has been doing but you didn’t question why is sacrificing ram so important to him that when Abraham don’t have ram he gave him one, ”

        THAT VERSE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FORGIVENESS u stupid moron.

        where you getting “so IMPORTANT” FROM?
        THE animal was a Godly gift AND abraham in RETURN performed an act.

        “and Like I said the whole world need to make a big sacrifice ”

        no, god so loved the world that he said the following :

        When you stretch out your hands,
        I will hide my eyes from you;
        even though you make many prayers,
        I will not listen;
        your hands are full of blood.
        16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
        remove the evil of your doings
        from before my eyes;
        cease to do evil,
        17 learn to do good;
        seek justice,
        rescue the oppressed,
        defend the orphan,
        plead for the widow.

        so you are a liar for jesus

        I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
        and the fat of fed beasts;
        I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
        or of lambs, or of goats.

        you think god is going to delight in some bs WORK free , guilt free crappy human sacrifice which is the cause of hate, BLOOD shedding and STENCH OF SIN FOR 2000 YEARS?

        “and we don’t have a ram that qualify to do it then God provides what we need in Jesus… ”

        NO, God provided NON-SACRIFICIAL systems in your own book you dumb retard.

        /////////////

        “Regarding Word and Jesus being the same and you said Jesus didn’t posses attributes of God… as I have explained before, in other for the WORD to become flesh to serve as a sacrificial lamb he has to empty himself or else it will not be possible for him to become a sacrificial lamb..”

        how can you be fully god and fully created @ the same time? you make no sense you moronic pig.

        what is a “lamb” without divine attributes? AN ANIMAL?

        AN EMPTY ANIMAL?

        ” If he didn’t empty himself who will be able to stand God?”

        your pagan god can’t veil his power like a lion goes easy on its offspring ?
        did the lion become a LAMB to go easy on its offspring ? you nob.

        “Who will be able to get close to God or threating God or even question God like Jews did?”

        the jews killed a created human you moronic pig. a HUMAN being. a HUMAN BEING

        human being is not GOD ALMIGHTY. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR think skulll

        ” I don’t know if you ever think about this before, you say Jesus cant be God.. if Jesus could raise a dead person.. open a blind eyes.. cure leprosy”

        read your gospels piglet , its not jesus DOING anything, it is FAITH.

        5 Now there was a woman who had been suffering from hemorrhages for twelve years. 26 She had endured much under many physicians, and had spent all that she had; and she was no better, but rather grew worse. 27 She had heard about Jesus, and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28 for she said, “If I but touch his clothes, I will be made well.” 29 Immediately her hemorrhage stopped; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease. 30 Immediately aware that power had gone forth from him, Jesus turned about in the crowd and said, “Who touched my clothes?” 31 And his disciples said to him, “You see the crowd pressing in on you; how can you say, ‘Who touched me?’” 32 He looked all around to see who had done it. 33 But the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came in fear and trembling, fell down before him, and told him the whole truth. 34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace, and be healed of your disease.”

        YOU SEE PIG?

        faith, not jeeebus. plus jeebus has a spirit in him which helps him out. he is DEPENDANT human

        a woman is able to deflower jesus’ power by FAITH AND jebus is UNKNOWING of it.

        in mark, if u have faith, u can MOVE MOUNTAINS……

        faith, not jeebus…

        ALLAH CAN WILL FOR THE MOON TO GIVE US LIFE, RAISE THE DEAD, CURE THE SICK…THIS IS EASY FOR ALLAH

        ALLAH CREATED THE GIANT BALL OF LIGHT CALLED THE SUN WHICH KEEP THE EARTH FROM PERISHING….should u now go worship the sun?

        ” and the fake one in Quran gave life to a clay bird,”

        how you know it is fake, pig ?

        ” how come the Jews are able to do all they did to him if its not planned to be like that? ”

        later christians werent happy that their god got caught off guard so….

        jews are able to deflower your god cause they are stronger than him…okams razor.

        “including catching him if you say they didn’t crucify him but at least they caught him and Allah swapped him with someone else according to Quran… how come they were able to threating him with all his powers ? ”

        oi, pig, because they didn’t see him as GOD, just like they didnt see the giant ball of light called the sun as GOD even though it keeps the earth from PERISHING.

        and they were STRONGER than your god

        BUT ALL YOUR BULLSHIT is beside the point

        if a PAGAN god man came to earth and didnt eat food or drink water, he would STILL BE DEPENDANT on things OUTSIDE of him.

        1. location
        2. body
        3. need to exist IN PLACE

        4. SPECIFICATION WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST

        HOW IS NECCESSARY ONE HAVE SPECIFICATIONS ?

        “I am sure taking life is very easy almost anyone can do it…but giving life only God can do it…”

        LOL, GOD CREATED HUMAN LIFE LOL

        U DUMB DIP shit

        YOUR pagan god died and press reset button , how he “gave life” ? lol

        “.how come he didn’t just destroy the Pharisees and other people giving him trouble?”

        because mark says that he WAS A pagan dependant human being ….he COULDNT destroy them, thats your pagan fantasy. READ mark

        “John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, ”

        they did fight ,he told them to BUY A SWORD and they used it lol. he didnt tell pilate that he told them to buy a sword lol

        the thing is jesus COULDNT fight.

        and john 18:36 is bs, when jews are in the house, he is AFRAID to go there
        read john, he avoid DANGEROUS PLACES in john lol

        “so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here… If he didn’t empty himself its obvious he will not be able to fulfil what he came to do and its important just the way other sacrifice especially the Abraham’s one”

        an empty god and god are two DIFFERENT gods you pagan filth.

        your bullshit IS OBFUSCATION

        GOD IS NOT A MAN

        UNDYING IS NOT MORTAL HUMAN LIFE…

        humans are POWERLESS and are taken over by powers outsdie of themselves, GOD is absolute in Himself.

        this is how we tell god apart from powerful human kings.

        “Word is the same as Jesus, same way who you are here on earth does not posses the same attributes in Spiritual realm or do you posses same attribute in Spiritual realm? ”

        it doesnt matter, LETS SAY i do or i don’t. i may FAIL TO EXIST AS Y OR NOT
        I MAY FAIL TO EXIST AS Z OR NOT

        GOD DOES NOT FAIL AS GOD

        GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK PAGAN BRAIN

        “And doesn’t make who you are in spiritual realm different from who you are on earth ..”

        YOU ARE CREATED AND MAY FAIL TO EXIST AS Y OR MAY NOT

        THIS DOES NOT APPLY ON GOD WHO BRINGS YOUR MODIFICATIONS INTO EXISTANCE. NO POWER MODIFIES GOD. YET HE AT WILL IS ABLE TO MODIFY.

        IF GOD GETS MODIFIED, WHO MODIFIED HIM , HIMSELF? THAN THERE IS A HIMSELF OF GOD GREATER THAN ANOTHER HIMSELF OF HIMSELF LOL ?

        YOU DO SEE THAT THEN THIS COULD BE INFINITE REGRESS LOL

        DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF GOD.

        GOD IS BEGININGLESS

        a being with a begining is DEPENDANT on beginingless one, so you have a god who has a BEGININGLESS GOD

        ” If your name is Stew here on earth in spiritual realm if you are not Stew you will definitely be attached to Stew not someone else.. ”

        he will b e effected by FORCES OUTSide of him, he will FAIL TO EXIST as x and exist as y BY THE WILL OF GOD.

        “or whatever you do here on earth will not be associated with you in heaven ? … this is very simple there is Spiritual realm and physical …. Who we are is the same in both Spiritual and Physical but we posses different attributes but still remain the same person.. ”

        LOL, you destroyed yourself not even REALISING

        here we have a pagan who said that the divine person is being TAKEN over by FORCES outside of himself ……in other words DIVINE person is getting TEMPTED by satan LOL

        “The world needed a sacrificial lamb same as Abraham and God provides it…”

        abraham did not know the pagan “sacrificial lamb” of christianity

        “My question to you which it will help us get things straight… why did God provide the Ram to Abraham ? why cant the faith be enough since he doesn’t have any ram with him
        Why did Moses kill ram and sprinkle the blood in different verses in the bible? Why is the blood important ?”

        bloodi parrot

        Like

      9. Larry

        I didn’t ignore your message I have been so busy that’s why I am just replying now. Please if you want to respond to my messages click on reply its easy for me to see your response when you do that

        STEW Still avoiding the point of why you worship Jesus(as) when you and I both agree he doesn’t have God’s attributes I see…

        I didn’t not agree with you He doesn’t have God’s attributes … I explained in a way Muslims see it and like I said before and always Jesus is God. I explained why he took on flesh and why he empty himself but still remain the Word
        Your problem is you don’t have any understand of spiritual realm… I tried to explain to you that you and your soul are the same, it doesn’t matter if your body eat and drink but your soul doesn’t both are still STEW same goes for Jesus and the Word both are still God no matter what.. if you can prove to me now that your soul and body are not the same then I will agree with you but if you cant why didn’t you agree with me in the case of Jesus…

        Let me show you more reasons why Muslims don’t even understand what they say … When Muslims say Allah send Angel Gabriel to Mohamed, I believe they meant Allah sent him from heaven to the earth.. So when Allah was speaking to Gabriel in heaven does Gabriel has ears, mouth , nose, etc? or only when He appear here on earth he posses those attributes …. If you believe they have body in heaven, What sort of body do they have ? Spiritual or Physical ? Since you claimed you are studying to be a Scholar let us hear your answer maybe we can get somewhere to How Jesus is God

        STEW Yes and that is not the ONLY way you blood god worshipping pagan. Using your logic Muslim from this verse:
        Those of you who would say such a thing to their wives, then go back on what they’ve said, are to free a slave before the two of them may touch each other again. This is what you’re being counseled, and God knows what you do. (58:3)
        Believe the ONLY way God will forgive their sins is to free slaves so the ultimate slave had to come and be freed. This is not the case it is a specific rule in a specific situation not general.

        You are very funny before you said Some sins require you go out and do extra now you said This is not the case it is a specific rule in a specific situation not general… When you say some sins that means you are not generalising it so you saying rule in a specific situation not general you are just repeating yourself… Let me explain again maybe you will understand now… Before when you said some sins require you go out and do extra in other for God to forgive you I told you that’s exactly what God did in the case of Jesus dying for our sins…. He did extra by giving us his only son… Jesus is the EXTRA…. Now you said specific rule in a specific situation not general… like you said that scenario you to free a slave then God will forgive you for that particular sin now I am telling you again by killing Jesus on the cross … God generalise it as the way our sins will be forgiven …. As you know God determines what and what needs to be done in other for our sins to be forgiving …..

        Let me try and explain something you are missing …. When you say by doing certain things by the command of God that’s the way certain sins will be forgiving .. for example if you require a ram, or fasting or freeing slave etc whatever you need for this certain sins to be forgiving is giving to you by God, you don’t own it… everything we have is giving to us by God including your SALARY…. You need strength to fast, God gives strength …You need ram God create Ram.. You need to free Slave God create slave so there is nothing you give to God that belongs to you everything that you give to him belongs to him first… God only wants our obedience and faith in Him… the same way God gave us Jesus in other to take away our sins, if God didn’t give Jesus to us we are not able to do a thing to Jesus. So when Muslims say how can this and that happen to Jesus and we still call him God, its because everything that happen to him is the will of God not by our power… So the only thing God requires Us to do is to believe in Jesus and our sins will be forgiving that’s all.. Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb that God gave us … There is only 1 Jesus not billions like animals and there is only 1 person that is worthy of taking away the sins of all the world and that person is Jesus… since there is only 1 Jesus and billions of us and God wants our sins to be forgiving by killing Jesus which
        It will be impossible for each and everyone of us to kill Jesus every time we need God to forgive us, What did God do He requires us to just believe in that sacrifice then we don’t need other sacrifice again… All he needs is our Obedience and Faith…. He doesn’t eat the ram nor does he drink the blood its our Obedience and Faith.

        STEW So you admit the Daddy is no different from the volcano god that demands virgin sacrifices then?

        If you read this over and over again you will see how you are wrong … volcano god or whatever god that you say require blood, where do you think they got it from? When people do magic or voodoo or some sort of spiritual things that is not of God where do you think they got it from? If you truly believe all power belongs to God…. Can a man give himself power or create power? This gods you are talking about tapped into spiritual realms and manipulate things they see… They know there is a mystery behind blood and who create blood and the mystery ? God…. So to answer you question God cant be like volcano god….its volcano god that wants to be like God by asking for blood… Hebrews 9:22
        And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. This verse shows there is a mystery behind shedding of blood…

        Why do I have to feed 10 poor people, give them clothes or free a slave or fast 3 days as an atonement for breaking an oath? Why can’t I just repent? Because that is what God legislated that’s it. That’s the only reason charity, prayer, fasting, etc matter is because God legislated the act. The same applies to sacrifices (which we have rules for as well) Nothing to do with God needing to be satiated by blood. Even if I wanted to use your poor understanding of God being a “spiritual creature” what does He need worldly blood for?

        Like I said before God doesn’t need anything from us because we don’t own anything…. God owns everything the only thing he wants from us is Obedience and Faith out of our own free will.. So if he says kill Ram its not that He wants to eat the meat but he wants your Obedience and Faith out of our own free will but with the blood I have explained there is a mystery behind it a spiritual thing… I gave you a good example about Abraham and Isaac.. After Abraham showed Obedience and Faith.. God provides him with Ram and it was after he sacrifice the ram God said this in Genesis 22:15-18
        Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.

        STEW One was a show of piety while the other is paganism that makes no sense

        Like I have explained above God cant practice paganism same way God don’t do magic.

        LARRY …Like I said the whole world need to make a big sacrifice…”
        STEW Says who? Show me anywhere in the Hebrew bible where God claimed this

        Funny guy I never claimed its written in the bible like that… I was just explain it to you according to your example that some sins require you do extra…God is the one that decides what he want from us.. with the examples you gave in the Quran you believe it was God that says people should free slave or fast… So that goes to show we don’t choose what we do for our sins to be forgiving … same way God decides Jesus should die for our sins and all we need to do is believe and have faith .

        STEW Going a little farther, He fell to the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour would pass from Him. “Abba, Father,” He said, “all things are possible for You. Take this cup from Me. Yet not what I will, but what You will.” (Mark 14:35-36)
        So that means your god apparently didn’t know the plan and feared his creation in killing him.

        Its very funny how Muslims read and interpret … You use your own hand to type Yet not what I will, but what You will.. If Jesus want his will to be done Jews will not be able to do anything to him.. It very simple everything that happened to him only happened because Jesus wants the will of God to happen not his will and again that’s because he took on flesh because when human beings are going through tough period our flesh complains.

        STEW As I’ve said before I don’t take this position of “switching” nor does the Quran ever say he(as) was caught.

        What did Quran says then?… I know there is day that crucifixion happened to someone .. Bible recorded it as Jesus Quran recorded as someone else… So tell me what Quran say about that day… what makes people to think the person crucified is Jesus and Quran says it wasn’t Jesus…. For crucifixion to happen a person must be taking to the cross and nailed to cross … so for Jews and Christians to believe Jesus was crucified they must have seen him taking to cross and nailed to cross… Please and please explain what Quran say since you don’t believe Jesus was taking nor switched …

        STEW John” ever being the odd man out in your fanfiction contradicts the Synoptics where Jesus(as) has the Disciples prepare to fight and protect him from the Jews (Luke 22:36-38)

        Lol you really mean Jesus want his disciples to protect him with just 2 swords …you are funny… anyway he was speaking in parables that’s all I can say

        STEW Because God can demand whatever he wants in His worship. He could order everybody to hop on one foot in the corner for an hour a day and it would be equivalent to the ram sacrifice and blood sprinkle. God does what He wants when He wants.

        If truly believe God does what He wants then its very simple He wants you to believe in Jesus it is equivalent to whatever sacrifice you were used to…Lol very simple

        In conclusion I have explained why Jesus is God and why he came as a sacrificial lamb the problem is even if what I said make sense you still will not believe it because Mohamed told you not to.. so what do you do? If you think it make sense ? because you are only saying it doesn’t make sense because you believe bible is fake… a story can make sense but not true if that happens, what we need to do is find out if its true or not .

        Like

      10. stewjo004

        “I didn’t not agree with you He doesn’t have God’s attributes …”

        Okay cool then you agree Jesus(as) is not God so what are we discussing?

        “Your problem is you don’t have any understand of spiritual realm…

        And your problem is you are promoting a heresy as Christianity does NOT teach this.

        if you can prove to me now that your soul and body are not the same

        Sure…if you cut off a piece of your finger you don’t “lose” a part of your soul. This is why your body is called as a witness on the day of judgement

        when Allah was speaking to Gabriel in heaven does Gabriel has ears, mouth , nose, etc? or only when He appear here on earth he posses those attributes …. If you believe they have body in heaven, What sort of body do they have ?

        The asker knows as much as the asked. God knows best.

        I am telling you again by killing Jesus on the cross … God generalise it as the way our sins will be forgiven …. As you know God determines what and what needs to be done in other for our sins to be forgiving …..

        Except…THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR THIS IN THE ENTIRETY OF HUMAN EXISTENCE. It is also contradictory because you acknowledge people got to heaven before Jesus (as) so that clearly demonstrates no “sacrifice” was needed to get into heaven. There is simply no way to justify your idolatry.

        because everything that happen to him is the will of God not by our power…

        You just said the “will of God” meaning you subconsciously acknowledge he (as) is not God. For example, if I get into a car accident I don’t go around calling the other car “God” even though the wreck was the will of God.

        only 1 Jesus not billions like animals and there is only 1 person that is worthy of taking away the sins

        Says who? Your mangod sinned multiple times and broke his own rules.

        All he needs is our Obedience and Faith….

        Agreed. Soon why do I need to worship a man idol to do this?

        If you read this over and over again you will see how you are wrong …

        I don’t see how. You believe there is a “mystery in the blood” so what is the difference between the Daddy and the Aztec idols other than names? Also you said: “its volcano god that wants to be like God by asking for blood…’
        How did you come to that conclusion? Their idols came before your bloodthirsty idol.

        there is a mystery behind it a spiritual thing…

        You can try to throw as much fortune cookie BS around as you want but using YOUR definition:

        Daddy the “spiritual” creature wants “worldly” blood for whatever reason.

        God cant practice paganism same way God don’t do magic.

        Agreed so we can discount both your idols for doing both. Your worship practically 2 while claiming 3 and require blood sacrifice like Baal.

        LARRY …Like I said the whole world need to make a big sacrifice… I never claimed its written in the bible like that

        Oh good we both agree this is found no where then and can throw it out. 🤷‍♂️Moving on…

        same way God decides Jesus should die for our sins and all we need to do is believe and have faith .

        You already conceded God does not legislate paganism.

        Its very funny how Muslims read and interpret …

        Like how your scholarship says?

        You use your own hand to type Yet not what I will, but what You will..If Jesus want his will to be done Jews will not be able to do anything to him..

        Thank you. You wrote before:

        “…how come the Jews are able to do all they did to him if its not planned to be like that?…

        And now you are saying Jesus (as) did NOT want to be harmed thus going against God’s (who you say he is) plan. So as I said before your idol apparently didn’t know the elaborate scheme.

        What did Quran says then?

        Oh easy. I was going to save this for CruciFICTION pt 4 but I take the reading you all made up a bunch of stories (such as the crucifixion)and confused yourselves About what actually happened. I believe as the Quran says that an assassination attempt happened (not necessarily a crucifixion) and he was taken up to heaven (aka “assumption” or “was assumed”)

        Lol you really mean Jesus want his disciples to protect him with just 2 swords …you are funny… anyway he was speaking in parables that’s all I can say

        You can say whatever you want just read the passage they say: “Here are 2 swords!” This was a spur of the moment thing and he is clearly preparing a defense.

        He wants you to believe in Jesus it is equivalent to whatever sacrifice you were used to…

        Except you have conceded He does not legislate paganism…very simple indeed.

        In conclusion I have explained why Jesus is God
        No you haven’t you’ve only compounded your issues

        the problem is even if what I said make sense you still will not believe it because Mohamed told you not to..

        Lol no I wouldn’t believe your nonsense even if I wasn’t a Muslim. The only reason I believe Jesus(as) is even a prophet is based SOLELY on Islam not your text.

        you are only saying it doesn’t make sense because you believe bible is fake…
        No. I’m saying it doesn’t make sense because it doesn’t make sense se and am not retarded enough to follow such potholes

        what we need to do is find out if its true or not .
        Sure And what do you propose other than voices? Your text historical errors? False prophecies? Textual history and known editing? Please tell me what you think we should use as criteria to verify it.

        Liked by 2 people

      11. Larry

        Please if you want to respond to this and disagree with whatever I say please explain reason you disagree … all you have been doing is running away from being exposed … There is nothing wrong if you don’t know or have answer to my message … you don’t have to be pretending as if you know it all… You hide behind the laptop since have called you out on so many things you said that doesn’t make sense …. .. you don’t explain yourself anymore when you don’t know the answer in other for people not to see that you don’t know what you claimed to know. You just disagree without explaining why.. If you truly you don’t understand a question because of my English ask me to re write it.. There is no point in Showing off to people here on forum … God knows our heart and we are suppose to be doing this for God not for showing off … Please you and anyone else that want to respond to this explain yourself don’t just hide behind laptop if you don’t know what to say because you don’t have understanding, Just say so don’t lie or pretend.

        LARRY I am telling you again by killing Jesus on the cross … God generalise it as the way our sins will be forgiven …. As you know God determines what and what needs to be done in other for our sins to be forgiving
        STEW Except…THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR THIS IN THE ENTIRETY OF HUMAN EXISTENCE. It is also contradictory because you acknowledge people got to heaven before Jesus (as) so that clearly demonstrates no “sacrifice” was needed to get into heaven. There is simply no way to justify your idolatry.

        I hope you are being honest with your statement, because I cant believe what you just said … You are saying THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR THIS IN THE ENTIRETY OF HUMAN EXISTENCE.
        Show me precedent for God’s covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 , Are you saying God has made a covenant like that before with someone else?…

        Show me precedent for God creating Adam in Genesis 2:7 …Seriously I don’t know how can someone like you with all the knowledge you have say a thing like that…To me you are just finding any means to be right ..it doesn’t matter to you if you say things that is not true …

        I explained to you why God did what He did all you have to say about it is there no example like that before, even if that is true can God not start with someone???
        Anyway God didn’t order Jews to kill Jesus nor did he force them to do what they didn’t want to do…. He already knew what they will do to Jesus and already knew he will use it as a way of generalising the way our sins will be forgiving … God knows everything before it happens.. What Jews did to Jesus is on them….

        You think when Christians say God gave us his son we meant he commands us to kill his son for sacrifice …NO… what we meant is God knew what will happen to his Son before he came to us and He still allowed it because He loved us… You are twisting it as if God said sacrifice my son …. When God send John the Baptist to warn people does He not know John will be killed? Why didn’t you think God want John to be sacrifice that’s why He sent him…The way Muslim think is so funny to be honest… When it comes to Jesus you are never honest with the way you think and things you say…. When Hitler is killing Jews… You never question why God create Hitler… You never say God wants human sacrifice that’s why he made Hitler… You never call God pagan … Have you ever thought why bible say Judas was wrong to do what he did? If by your theory of God demanding human sacrifice .. why is Judas and Jews are guilty of killing Jesus since that’s what God commands them to do…… If when Jesus came into the world people change and accept him and not crucify him maybe things would have been different ….

        God gave us free will and its up to what we use it for even though God knew what we will use our free will to do… There is no where God says kill my son before I can forgive your sins…. We are just honest and grateful people that love God and appreciate what He did for us unlike people that don’t believe …..We didn’t know all this before until Jesus died on the cross.. Now that we know we can/t pretend as if we don’t know and that’s why when Christian talk we talk as if we already knew before it happened because we Understand it now…..
        In your Quran Allah requires you to do certain things in other for certain sins to be forgiving … Allah Decides what needs to be done and also gave you things you need to use… why do you believe this and you don’t believe God gave us Jesus….. do you think the ram that you kill or money you use to atone your sin are yours? Is that why you think by God giving us Jesus it means Human sacrifice ?

        STEW It is also contradictory because you acknowledge people got to heaven before Jesus (as) so that clearly demonstrates no “sacrifice” was needed to get into heaven. There is simply no way to justify your idolatry.
        People that goes to heaven before Jesus will be judge according to the law that was giving during the time they were alive… Its like saying people that didn’t offer sin offering before Moses’s time will not go to heaven or lets pretend Quran is real …what will happen to people that didn’t follow Mohamed’s teachings and laws… Surely you know God will only judge people according to the law that was giving them when they were alive.. New Law is to believe in Jesus there is no contradiction from my side you are the one contradicting yourself … The only thing here is disobedient and lack of faith

        Lets do this… Don’t run from these questions as you always do
        All the things that Allah requires in Quran for atonement for certain sin , do you owns them or Allah owns them?
        Is there anywhere in bible that says God told Jews or anyone to Kill Jesus before the sin of the world can be forgiving
        If a man just pray for forgiveness and didn’t free slave according to Quran 58:3 will he be forgiving or will have to free slave before he can be forgiving

        What did Quran says then?
        Oh easy. I was going to save this for CruciFICTION pt 4 but I take the reading you all made up a bunch of stories (such as the crucifixion)and confused yourselves About what actually happened. I believe as the Quran says that an assassination attempt happened (not necessarily a crucifixion) and he was taken up to heaven (aka “assumption” or “was assumed”)

        It will be nice that you put your reference next time so that people can see you are not lying about Quran and also that I don’t assume…I still don’t understand how you think for real… Why do you hate truth so much ? you Understand English so much and you deny truth when you read Quran in English that no one needs to interpret for you … I am not sure how good you are in Arabic but for sure I know you understand English so well.. How in the world will you say whoever that think they killed Jesus didn’t see Crucifixion happened even though Quran talks about it that Allah made it appear to them ..

        Quran 4:157
        That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not

        And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

        And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

        3 different interpretations … All agreed that they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them…. What does “was made to appear to them” mean? According to Quran who ever that Quran is referring to in this verse… Jews, Romans or whoever … They think they kill Jesus by crucifying him, but they didn’t do any of that Allah made it to appear to them like they did… Because of what Allah did they assumed they have killed Jesus by crucifixion …
        Why are you trying to deny that Jews and Romans or Whoever that thinks they kill Jesus see him being Crucify? Quran clearly state they see what Allah made to appear to them, which is killing Jesus by crucifixion so they must have seen it happen …. I am not arguing if the crucifixion happen for real or not…. All I want to confirm from you is … Whoever thinks Jesus was killed by crucifixion , would have seen it happened but whatever they saw is not real, Allah made it appear as if it was real According to Quran? Am I right ?

        Sure And what do you propose other than voices? Your text historical errors? False prophecies? Textual history and known editing? Please tell me what you think we should use as criteria to verify it.
        I have answered this before but lets us finalise what we are talking about first then I will explain again

        Like

      12. stewjo004

        1. “Please if you want to respond to this and disagree with whatever I say please explain reason you disagree…”

        I do which is why everyone agrees with me and not you

        2. “…You hide behind the laptop…”

        Lol, ain’t nobody scared of you. You can pick a time and place anywhere in Cleveland, Ohio to meet up if you feel some type of way.

        3. “…you don’t explain yourself anymore…”
        Because you usually say the same dumb@$$ answer that doesn’t defeat my point. Like for example your idol not knowing his own game plan.

        4. “…we are suppose to be doing this for God not for showing off …”

        Not saying I disagree but who am I showing off to? I know everybody here, they ain’t nobody special that I have to impress. But keep playing the victim card to make yourself feel better.

        5. “…I explained to you why God did what He did all you have to say about it is there no example like that before…”

        That is evidence hence why it’s called “precedent” in law. I find it ironic in your desperation to compensate for your lack of knowledge you claim others don’t have it while time and time demonstrating your complete incompetence, both the Bible and Quran agree God does not change:

        “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)

        “This is the way of those I’ve sent before, and you will find no change in My ways.’ (Q. 17:77)

        When you try to equate Jesus(as) to lamb sacrifices you are trying to create a precedent dumb@$$. The problem is you are trying to make an analogy of your man idol with a legal penalty when its faulty and out of it’s context

        6. “…You think when Christians say God gave us his son we meant he commands us to kill his son for sacrifice…”

        Never argued this. Red herring.

        7. “…You never call God pagan…”

        I didn’t call God a pagan I called your bloodthirsty idol called “the Daddy” a pagan. I will say again , Daddy the “spiritual” creature wants “worldly” blood for whatever reason like the Aztec idols. All of your guys’ kufr is one religion.

        8. “…What Jews did to Jesus is on them….”

        What the heck are you talking about lol? I showed your man idol prayed (to himself according to your theology) that did not want to die for your sins despite allegedly being the Creator and this was his master plan.

        9 “…why is Judas and Jews are guilty of killing Jesus since that’s what God commands them to do…”

        I agree 🤷

        10. “…We are just honest and grateful people that love God and appreciate what He did for us unlike people that don’t believe …”

        First off you DON’T believe either. Next you are known liars and ungrateful to God hence why you give the worship that belongs to His ALONE to ignorant man idols.

        11. “…We didn’t know all this before until Jesus died on the cross..”

        Says…who? The Torah already said all this LONG before Jesus(as)

        12. “…why do you believe this and you don’t believe God gave us Jesus…”

        Because…God doesn’t legislate paganism. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Here I’m gonna try in Yoruban and see if this helps your comprehension:

        “Ọlọrun ko ṣe ofin Paganism”

        13. “Is that why you think by God giving us Jesus it means Human sacrifice ?”

        As much as it is that as well, I am referring to your idols obsession with blood period.

        14. “…People that goes to heaven before Jesus will be judge according to the law that was giving during the time they were alive…”

        Thank you for disproving Christianity as you just conceded one does NOT need to believe in Jesus’s (as) “sacrifice” to get into heaven.

        15. ‘…lets pretend Quran is real …”

        It is.

        16. “…what will happen to people that didn’t follow Mohamed’s teachings and laws…Surely you know God will only judge people according to the law that was giving them when they were alive”

        Unlike your claim we actually have textual proof for this. Prove what you said about previous people from the Bible.

        17. “…All the things that Allah requires in Quran for atonement for certain sin , do you owns them or Allah owns them? Is there anywhere in bible that says God told Jews or anyone to Kill Jesus before the sin of the world can be forgiving. If a man just pray for forgiveness and didn’t free slave according to Quran 58:3 will he be forgiving or will have to free slave before he can be forgiving”

        You have ownership but everything at the end of the day belongs to God. I never argued this and fail to see the point being made. And finally it’s up to God to decide that. Wow this sure seems like an unnecessary distraction of you admitting your man idol doesn’t have God’s attributes? 🤔

        18. “…It will be nice that you put your reference next time”

        You already quoted it before why do I need to if we both know what’s being referred to?

        19. “What does “was made to appear to them” mean?”

        How about stopping here next time instead of rambling? To answer now, how you Larry are reading the verse is as follows (not I’m adding parentheses to assist with interpretation)

        And (also the Jews) bragging: “We killed ‘the Messiah’ Jesus, the son of Mary, God’s ‘Messenger’.” They neither killed nor crucified him, it was only made to appear that way (through an illusion) to them. Those who argue over it are full of doubts, and they have no definite knowledge to follow, only guesses and assumptions; but they were not certain if they killed him, rather God raised him up towards Himself. God has always been the Ultimate Authority and the Source of Wisdom. (4:157-158)

        How I and scholars such as Razi and Zamakshari read it is as follows:

        And (also the Jews) bragging: “We killed ‘the Messiah’ Jesus, the son of Mary, God’s ‘Messenger’.” They neither killed nor crucified him, it was only made to appear that way to them (through the stories they told and spread). Those who argue over it are full of doubts, and they have no definite knowledge to follow (because of the things they made things up), only guesses and assumptions; but they were not certain if they killed him, rather God raised him up towards Himself. God has always been the Ultimate Authority and the Source of Wisdom. (4:157-158)

        This reading cleans up a bunch of issues and makes more sense in the context of the verse. There are NO sources or eyewitnesses to this alleged event. Either “Mark” or Paul (your earliest source) made this story up and the other 3 “gospels” copied and added to it. This explains why it’s missing from “Q”, the gospel of Thomas and early christianity never emphasizing it.

        20. “…I have answered this before but lets us finalise what we are talking about first then I will explain again”

        Sure. What criteria should we use to quote:

        “… find out if its true or not .”

        Floors yours.

        Liked by 2 people

      13. “There is no point in Showing off to people here on forum … God knows our heart and we are suppose to be doing this for God not for showing off …”

        Seriously it’s pretty yucky that it’s coming from you…how many times you gonna repeat that? Even if any of us shows off then cope and seethe, that doesn’t make your arguments any better…and it’s pretty ironic you’re talking about “hiding behind a laptop” (btw I’m pretty sure he’s got a gaming PC judging from how I know him) when you intentionally ignored my refutations in the past only to end up repeating your nonsense again and then claim (or lie) that nobody is trying to address your points

        Virtue signaling doesn’t look nice from a hypocrite with low IQ…

        Liked by 3 people

      14. mr.heathcliff

        Hey larry, wasnt jesus “son of david” ?

        Quote:
        I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is f……. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman

        Lol

        Like

      15. mr.heathcliff

        “Actually it’s narrated from Aisha RA that if the prophet pbuh were to conceal a verse, it would be 33:37. So why would he invent a verse that his wife knew troubled him to the point she believed that if he were to conceal one, it would be this? “

        Like

    4. Vaqas Rehman

      @Larry

      “That’s why when Jesus came into the world he has to give up his divine privileges in other for him to be Human not God.”

      Human not God?! Larry do you believe he was not also 100% god on earth during the incarnation?

      “I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?…”

      I see this come up a lot by Christians so let me make this clear, contradictions and logical absurdities are not “things.” When we say God can do anything the “thing” is referring to possibilities even the the miraculous or the unlikely. But hypothetical scenarios or objects that by their very natures imply contradiction do not count because that would be ridiculous. For example the off repeated nonsense question by atheists and the like who ask “can God create a boulder so heavy that EVEN HE can’t lift it?!”

      To us you’re concept of a “god-man” “dying” for the sins of the world is no different that silly question.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. stewjo004

        @ Larry

        Oh, quick question, how does it feel to now be a kaffir in Islam AND Christianity? That’s basically over 2/3rd of the world calling you, it. That’s quite an accomplishment.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. mr.heathcliff

        After doing a bit of research on ehrmans forum, it appears to me that prostitution was NOT rampant in hoseas time. The problem is with spiritual prostituion and performing spiritual adultery with other gods.

        So yhwh commads hosea to marry a prostitute who for sure will continue in her promiscuous ways even AFTER marriage and hosea would have to know that yhwh is telling him to marry PROMISCUOUS WOMAN in order for yhwh to get his POINT across about SPIRITUAL idolatry …lol

        Liked by 1 person

      3. mr.heathcliff

        1. izrael is performing spiritual idolatry of faithlessness and disloyalty

        2. hosea marries hooker who is faithless and disloyal

        3. yhwh is telling hosea to be involved in and marry into faithless and disloyal relationship

        4. it is guaranteed that her disloyality will come about

        5. The law says to punish the infidelity of woman.

        6. Church fathers have said that lying for the benefit of community is good thing

        7. hosea could be a slut for hookers but loves izrael so much that :

        – he get his enjoymemt with hooker
        – at same time he demonstrates why being involved in hooker relationship is like idolatry

        Like

    5. mr.heathcliff

      Quote:
      C. “If you die as a Muslim before judgement day , are you waiting as human being or as a spirit ?

      How many versions of yhwh exist?
      Does yhwh exist as an atom? as a human? as a spirit? how about exist as moon like moon god?
      is my spirit created or uncreated? how does i having different experiences in different MODES implies that the ABSOLUTE uncreated God is taken OVER.by different MODES of existence?

      why are’nt you a hindu?

      Like

    6. mr.heathcliff

      God creating a system where life is taken is completely different from a god unable to forgive and planning his own execution .

      God has demonstrated that He can destroy sin without having to punish anyone in the ot.

      Like

    7. mr.heathcliff

      If ur pagan god is “all-powerful” he can create exception to rules, yet here u are asking questions insinuating why yhwh just like the pagan gods before him cannot forgive without human sacrifice.
      Why all ur questions insinuating that yhwh is a BLOOD god who need BLOOD shedding for forgiveness?

      Like

    8. mr.heathcliff

      “With everything you said it shows you are not sure of what you are saying or don’t know what you are saying that’s why you don’t understand why Jesus can die for our sin …. You agreed Allah knew you as a soul before you became flesh,, why cant Word exist before he became Jesus but you can…”

      WHAT has Gods knowledge of x existing as y or z GOT TO do with God becoming y or z?

      “.who you are as a flesh is different from who you are as a soul…. One has flesh, blood etc the other doesn’t .. same way for Word to be come flesh He cant have all the same attributes he has as Word ….”

      not only have you become a pagan , but you doubled gods essence

      divine and human.
      how arent you a pagan? what do you call a god who has human attributes ?
      in your case your god is literally an empty god.

      “Your soul is in spiritual realm and your body is the physical world … ”

      God has dominion over all planes of existence you stupid moron.
      I am His created creature and all dimensions are under His power and authority.
      your god HAS a God over him

      “Word is in the spiritual realm and Jesus physical world ….”

      so physical world trumps your god and strips him ? in other words, your pathetic god is limited to “spiritual realm”

      a b

      larrys pagan god is trumped by b

      ” Why is possible for you but not possible for the maker of all things”

      he is MAKER, maker dont get MADE and taken over by WHAT HE MADE, otherwise god is no different than u and i.

      you tell god apart from creature because he is

      1. beginingless
      2. immortal
      3. uncreated.
      4. has power over everything
      ###

      your god has BEGINING in him, see the difference dumb crister?

      ” ….again you said Some sins require to you go out and do extra but you don’t think Jesus dying for our sin is him doing extra ”

      in torah the sinner is to

      1. look after the animal. 2. offer expensive animal. do extra by feeling guiltt and repenting, NO BODY ELSE can do it for you, let me destroy you further

      jesus “dying for sins” is ABSOLUTE nonsense bs from torah perspective when the SINNER IS TASKED to go out and do extra.

      you dont tell jesus to offer an animal , REPENT, PRAY and have contrite heart, you got to do it yourself.

      yhwh tasks u with this.

      “since you believe some sins require doing extra? According to bible Jesus came to die for the sins of the world ”

      complete and utter redundant bullshit from torah perspective. yhwh TASKS u to do your bit. sacrifices go to yhwh , yhwh dont do sacrifices in torah u moronic pig.

      your gods dying is a self appeasing ritual to cool him off like self masturbation through cutting oneself.

      <<<>>>>>

      “the way I see this it will require doing extra to take away the sin of the whole world ….”

      your god cannot take on the form of a bull , but gave jews useless instructions like killing bulls?

      “That’s exactly why God did the extra by sending his son John 3:16 For this is how God loved the world: He gave[ his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life…. ”

      RESPONSE :
      GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE FORGAVE ADAM THAT SOWHOEVER REPENT SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

      RESPONSE 2:
      GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS INSTRUCTIONS THAT SO WHOEVER DO THEIR BEST TO DO THEM SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

      if your god can creation exception to bulls, he can create other exceptions

      quote:

      Yeah, Hosea 6:6 is another such statement. It’s a similar phrase to one used a couple other times. It would have been a perfectly fine verse to mention. I used 14:2 because my quotation from Psalms says near enough the same thing as 6:6, while 14:2 is a directive given to Israelites unable to go to the Temple where Hosea describes prayer as being like sacrificial bulls of the lips. I really like the quote.

      A theme throughout the Prophets is that the physical acts of worship do not themselves have value if not accompanied by internal intentions. A sacrifice without any internal meaning is worthless. This doesn’t mean sacrifices ought not be given; they ought be given with the right mentality. However for those unable to give a sacrifice, they should know that this does not stand as an obstacle between them and repentance. All they need do is open their mouths and offer the sacrifice of their lips.

      yhwh tasked u do go extra, when did he tell jesus to do anything ?

      no jesus found in prophets or torah

      “You already answered your own question …. There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world….”

      thats not what yhwh says :

      This flatly contradicts God’s own teachings, that we are supremely in command of our spiritual destiny through our actions. See Genesis 4:7; Deuteronomy 30: 11-14, 19-20; Ezekiel Chapters 18 and 33. Also Psalms 145:18.

      GOD “take away the sin” through CREATING RESPENTANCE, OBEDIANCE IN THE THE DEEDS AND HEARTS OF MEN

      u have been destroyed by your own torah

      “Even if there is it will require the whole world to agree and do it together,”

      so agreement would force us to an agreement, what happen to free will ?

      you ccome to god through agreement or free will ?

      ” do you see the whole world agreeing to do 1 thing together?”

      wtf are u on about ? what DOES IT MATTER?

      “Obviously that’s not possible even God knows that , that’s why God did the extra for us the same way you said some sin require extra…”

      so god trashed the sincere repentance of individual x because whole world is not in agreement ?

      “God show how much he love the world so that people can turn to him ”

      what ? people werent turning to god before your pagan god came? jews did not love their god and turn to him ?

      “There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world….”

      your god “took away” sin of the world, yet he will judge you for your good and bad deeds on judgement day?

      who said god takes away “si n of the world” he doesnt , he exposes sins on day of judgement and judges.

      “that’s why he sent his son to be the extra and his son is the only one that worth taking away the sin of the whole world ”

      who made this rule? who made the rule that sin = eternal damnation? who made the rule that only a violent human sacrifice take away the sin of the world? where did the rule say that god is allowed to create loop hole and save himself from eternal damnation ?

      so god did not think his INVISIBLE FORGIVENESS powers were worthy ?

      quote :
      If there is no internal repentance and commitment to change, then the physical act of offering a sacrifice is worthless. Conversely, internally repenting without a sacrifice (in instances where one cannot be given) is always acceptable.

      question :

      here your jewish god tells how to take away the sin of the world….does your god repent or doees he NEED humans to give him REPENTANCE ?

      Like

    9. mr.heathcliff

      “. There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world….”

      your god died for pagan idolatry, knows idolaters are never going to accept him, JUDGES them on day of judgement and sends them to hell, so why did your pagan god punish himself for idolatry, WHERE DID the idolatry go? the idol worshipper is punished in hell, SO what pathetic useless act of “take away sin of IDOLATRY…..” ?

      your god put rape action on himself/punished himself, rapist NEVER accepts yyour pagan god, your god judges him on d.o.j and PUNISHES RAPIST in hell….for what your pagan god POURED rape on himself ? lol

      ITS absolute nonsense.

      Like

    10. mr.heathcliff

      Filtht kristiant liar for jesus

      Lets ask questions like u do

      1. god is invisible or in your case “spiritual”

      2. Sins begining point is from the mind, mind is invisible

      3. Why yhwh deal with invisible problem PHYSICALLY?

      4. Paul say old covenant is ritual and useless, yet yhwh DEPENDANT on old PAGAN SACRIFICIAL ritual, why???????

      5. This is INVISIBLE PROBLEM, not physical cause OUR BODIES ARE being used for wrong, for example, i use camera to look at women changing clothes, the point of origin is from the mind….

      6.u said this is “spiritual” but why yhwh DOING physical ritual to be SEEN by men?

      7. Dont tell me about the ressurection of your pagan god because he RESET something WHICH WAS for INVISIBLE problem, he USED THE RITUAL SYSTEM OF THE OLD PAGANS for SPIRITUAL problem

      8. is yhwh WEAK that his SOLUTION TO INVISIBLE PROBLEM IS BECOME MATERIAL ????????

      9. Why yhwh so materialistic in old testament and uses it in new testament for “sacrifice” ??? ITS SPIRITUAL PROBLEM

      Like

    11. mr.heathcliff

      Another evidence that a dog like u was never a muslim was when u said “quran copied the bible”
      Only an dumb ignorant pig shit like u will say this.

      Your christian scholars no longer say this. they are now saying that the quran HAS ITS OWN UNDERSTANDING AND perspective about the prophets and stories. They say the quran is an oral recitation in debate and dialogue with other people

      you said “quran copied…”
      But u need to define what “copied” means

      For example, majority of kristian scholars agree matthew COPIED mark word for word, order for order, and EVEN when they DISAGREE WITH MARK they reproduce markan wording

      So what does dog like u mean “copied”

      ?????

      Like

    12. mr.heathcliff

      I CANT BE BOTHERED TO REPLY ANY MORE. THIS GUY IS A WASTED MORON.

      hee is SPAMING THIS BLOG!

      “I didn’t not agree with you He doesn’t have God’s attributes … I explained in a way Muslims see it and like I said before and always Jesus is God.”

      ” I explained why he took on flesh and why he empty himself but still remain the Word”

      ” I tried to explain to you that you and your soul are the same, it doesn’t matter if your body eat and drink but your soul doesn’t both are still STEW same goes for Jesus and the Word both are still God no matter what..”

      you do understand you dumb moron that jesus was once “all knowing” and then the SAME “soul” or “person” or “SELF” became IGNORANT ?????

      stew was not talking ABOUT the flesh, he was TALKING about the INVISIIBLE person of your pagan god and HOW it was AFFECTED by things OUTSIDE of it…..

      do you see now pagan donkey?

      and it gets WORSE for a donkey like you.

      humans are CREATED BODY AND SOUL…….

      your “god soul” or “god self” or “god person” BECAME created .

      invisible BECAME physical.

      do you see the difference, polytheist?

      “Let me show you more reasons why Muslims don’t even understand what they say … When Muslims say Allah send Angel Gabriel to Mohamed, I believe they meant Allah sent him from heaven to the earth.. So when Allah was speaking to Gabriel in heaven does Gabriel has ears, mouth , nose, etc? or only when He appear here on earth he posses those attributes …. ”

      ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT, GOD CREATES WHAT HE WILLS ON ANY PLANE OF EXISTENCE, HE DOES NOT CREATE OR CAUSE HIMSELF

      “If you believe they have body in heaven, What sort of body do they have ? Spiritual or Physical ?”

      absOLUTELY IRRELAVANT

      “Before when you said some sins require you go out and do extra in other for God to forgive you I told you that’s exactly what God did in the case of Jesus dying for our sins….”

      it was absolutely USELESS for jesus to do anything. God already provided a system on how to get forgiveness of sins. jesus DIED for nothing.

      “He did extra by giving us his only son… Jesus is the EXTRA…. ”

      absolutely irrelavant trash because GOD gave “the extra ability” in every human.
      jesus DIED for nothing

      “Now you said specific rule in a specific situation not general… like you said that scenario you to free a slave then God will forgive you for that particular sin now I am telling you again by killing Jesus on the cross …”

      A useless activity.

      ” God generalise it as the way our sins will be forgiven ….”

      lol, the only thing your “god” “generalised” was TRANSFERRING filthy sins and PUNISHING himself…. OUR GOD MULTIPLES GOOD DEEDS.

      “Let me try and explain something you are missing …. When you say by doing certain things by the command of God that’s the way certain sins will be forgiving .. for example if you require a ram, or fasting or freeing slave etc whatever you need for this certain sins to be forgiving is giving to you by God, you don’t own it… everything we have is giving to us by God including your SALARY…. You need strength to fast, God gives strength …You need ram God create Ram.. You need to free Slave God create slave so there is nothing you give to God that belongs to you”

      does your god repent, feel guilt, feel remourse , do charity, pray ? no. so do you give to your god what he does not DO?

      “everything that you give to him belongs to him first… God only wants our obedience and faith in Him… ”

      so there is no need of jesus

      “the same way God gave us Jesus ”

      GOD gave us a heart which we use to draw closer to him. jesus told us to “love god with all our hearts”

      aND TO GET “atonement for sinS ” he said REPENT, for the kingdom is near.

      “in other to take away our sins,”

      god already “took away” sins by seeking god sincerely
      jesus = redundant. useless. not needed.

      ” if God didn’t give Jesus to us we are not able to do a thing to Jesus. ”

      pharisees killed him

      “So when Muslims say how can this and that happen to Jesus and we still call him God, its because everything that happen to him is the will of God not by our power”

      so god has a god OVER him and is CONTROLLED by the will of ANOTHER god? god is controlled by another god?

      christians jesus was a BLASPHEMOUR who BROKE the laws and was KILLED.

      “… So the only thing God requires Us to do is to believe in Jesus”

      lets put on “crosstian glasses”
      how does “beliving in” a pagan human sacrifice, UNDO rape, murder, THEFT, and adultery?
      did you sin today larry, how were your sins undone?
      you are believing in an UNJUST system. your god is “just” he cannot tolerate your CONTINUOUS sins.

      we don’t need pagan idol to seek gods forgiveness. OUR GOD IS MERCIFUL AND He doesnt need jesus to be meriful.

      your god is powerless and WEAK, he CAN’T undo sins WITHOUT pagan blood sacrifice.

      ” and our sins will be forgiving that’s all.. Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb that God gave us”

      GOD forgives WITHOUT jesus…THATS ALL!!!

      HE IS ABLE TO….THATS ALL!!!

      ” … There is only 1 Jesus not billions like animals and there is only 1 person ”

      yhwh DID NOT EVEN REQUEST THE offering of “billions of animals” lol

      its NOT ABOUT QUANTITY, but quality and there is NO QUALITY in idolatry!

      i would sacrificie hundreds of GOATS , then WORSHIP A PAGAN galilean IDDOL.

      and HOW MANY times you “sacrifice” jebus in your PAGAN mind EVVERYTIME u sin?

      “that is worthy of taking away the sins of all the world ”

      how does the KILLING OF A finite BODY take away INFINITE crime?
      PLUS jesus RESET himself

      your jesus DID NOT BURN in hell eternally

      “and that person is Jesus… since there is only 1 Jesus and billions of us and God wants our sins to be forgiving by killing Jesus which”

      God forgivees without jesus! FORGIVING without jesus or ANY INTERMEDIARIES is EASY FOR GOD AND GREATER than bodies of flesh.

      “It will be impossible for each and everyone of us to kill Jesus every time we need God to forgive us,”

      YET you drink blood and eat flesh and imagine crucifixion in your pagan brain. why u got the cross for, larrry?

      ” What did God do He requires us to just believe in that sacrifice then we don’t need other sacrifice again…”

      thats like saying god just required us to “believe in rape” and he won’t require us to believe in many RAPES again lol

      ” All he needs is our Obedience and Faith….”

      jesus is USELESS

      “He doesn’t eat the ram nor does he drink the blood its our Obedience and Faith.”

      yhwh LOVES goats, ram and sheep, they have to be quality though

      “If you read this over and over again you will see how you are wrong … volcano god or whatever god that you say require blood, where do you think they got it from? ”

      FROM people who sacrificed young virgins to APPEASE the gods

      “When people do magic or voodoo or some sort of spiritual things that is not of God where do you think they got it from? If you truly believe all power belongs to God…. Can a man give himself power or create power? ”

      a tree can give eternal life

      so why cant a flesh body?

      “This gods you are talking about tapped into spiritual realms and manipulate things they see…”

      like jesus was doing with jinns and devvils

      ” They know there is a mystery behind blood and who create blood and the mystery ? God”

      what about semen or ovum of a woman, any mystery their ?

      “And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. This verse shows there is a mystery behind shedding of blood…”

      THIS IS A LIE!

      “Why do I have to feed 10 poor people, give them clothes or free a slave or fast 3 days as an atonement for breaking an oath? Why can’t I just repent?”

      WHY noah just DIDNT have faith that god would KEEP him afloat? why he need to MEASURE boat, collect wood, and DO works do please god?

      why did the animal sacrifice have to bee a QUALITY sacrifice?

      why noah just didn’t have faith ?

      “Like I said before God doesn’t need anything from us”

      EXCEPT that your god depends on his human works

      ” because we don’t own anything….”

      so how did your god sacrifice himself to himself when he owns everything ?

      to sacrifice is to LOSE!

      ” God owns everything the only thing he wants from us is Obedience and Faith out of our own free will.. So if he says kill Ram its not that He wants to eat the meat but he wants your Obedience and Faith out of our own free will but with the blood I have explained there is a mystery behind it a spiritual thing… ”

      whats the mystery in blood and child sacrifice? whats the mystery in pagan human sacrifice?

      “I gave you a good example about Abraham and Isaac.. After Abraham showed Obedience and Faith.. God provides him with Ram and it was after he sacrifice the ram God said this in Genesis 22:15-18
      Then the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

      NO , it says “because you have NOT WITHHELD YOUR son, your ONLY SON…..”

      it was about the ram, but god DECIDED lets talk about abrahams son? LOL LOL LOLO L O L

      I CANT BE BOTHERED TO REPLY ANY MORE. THIS GUY IS A WASTED MORON.

      hee is SPAMING THIS BLOG!

      Liked by 1 person

    13. mr.heathcliff

      “did Jesus says only Father know the hour they will either say it was the human nature talking or his knowledge was “veiled..”

      U dingleberry, human nature is already made ignorant .

      The fathers PERSON was not ignorant , jesus PERSON was ignorant.

      How do u “veil” an all knowing person?

      notice how u SEPARATE the knowledge from the person ? knowledge doesnt change , person does? Is knowledge greater than the person?

      Your foolish bs about king and gomer and yhwh and hosea is too hilarious.

      Apparently king wasng doing his job. hosea was prophet of yheh lol

      Like

    14. mr.heathcliff

      “I am not sure if I understand you .. are you asking why Hosea didn’t judge Gomer? ”

      larry, pig of jesus, whore of babylon.

      first i quote your god :

      Plead with your mother, plead—for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband—that she put away her whoring from her face, and her adultery from between her breasts, or I will strip her naked and expose her as in the day she was born, and make her like a wilderness and turn her into a parched land, and kill her with thirst. Upon her children also I will have no pity, because they are children of whoredom. For their mother has played the whore.

      what is this IMAGERY conveying, pig of jebis ?

      hoses is banging a PROSTITUTE yet he have to go and plee with israel about her whoring ways ?

      “If that’s the question… its not Hosea’s job to carry out judgment on people that sin… ”

      thats cause he been given the task to bang a prostitute?

      he BANGING a prostitute and at same time conveying the imagery from the text above ?

      he is telling them the judgement of yhwh you whore of babylon

      “They have King and authority to do that..”

      so what was job of hosea , bang a prostitute to show that israel hurt yhwhs feelings ? lol

      ” Hosea is just a prophet.”

      GETTING REVEALATIONS ABOUT ISRAELS promiscuous ACTIVITIES WITH OTHER DIETIES

      hosea was getting kind of horny in this situatio so he FORGED revealations to satisfy his sexual apetite

      quote :

      – but this time not for social and ethical iniquity but for failure to worship God properly. The people of Israel have turned to other gods, and Hosea declares they have “prostituted” themselves and will be severely punished for it.

      quote :

      In this case the problem is not principally that they have behaved in unethical ways and perpetrated social injustice and oppression. It is rather that they have rejected the worship of God and indulged, instead, in the worship of other gods. “My people consult a piece of wood and their divining rod gives them oracles. . . . They sacrifice on the tops of the mountains and make offerings upon the hills” (4:12–13). They have, in a sense, prostituted themselves, wantonly going after lovers other than Yahweh: “for a spirit of whoredom has led them astray, and they have played the whore, forsaking their God” (4:12).

      so hosea DECIDES TO FORGE A REVEALATION AND JUSTIFY banging a REAL life prostitute to convey yhwhs FEELINGS of hurt

      lol

      ” Like I said before the main reason God told Hosea to do what he did is because of the way the whole country has been living in sin”

      they were WORSHIPPING OTHER gods

      hosis FORGES REVELATIONS TO show them yhwhs FEELINGS , but in reality he wanted to have sex with a whore to satisfy his prostitute ways .

      so much IDOLATRY of israel, that hoses got horny and decided to LIE about yhwh and forge revealation to justify his lustful ways .

      ” and no one is doing anything about it. There is nothing for Hosea to judge if God didn’t tell him to marry Gomer He will not have anything to do with her and no where bible says Hosea like what Gomer was doing..”

      you dumb whore of babylon hoses LIKED banging a prostitute because of his lust for her. and what better place to do it then in a place where israel is practicingg idolatry and prostituting activities with other gods?

      Like

    15. mr.heathcliff

      israels idolatry :
      Plead with your mother, plead—for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband—that she put away her whoring from her face, and her adultery from between her breasts, or I will strip her naked and expose her as in the day she was born, and make her like a wilderness and turn her into a parched land, and kill her with thirst. Upon her children also I will have no pity, because they are children of whoredom. For their mother has played the whore. (2:2–5)

      yhwhs command:

      The LORD said to Hosea, “Go take for yourself a wife of whoredom and have children of whoredom, for the land commits great whoredom by forsaking the LORD”

      “2.God didn’t tell Gomer what to do he spoke to Hosea, he didn’t tell Gomer to do a thing, he told Hosea to do something ”

      marry a disloyal and faithless whore. yhwh tells hosis to marry a disloyal and faithless whore to show israel how yhwh feels?

      quote :
      And so Hosea does what he is told, in obedience to God (but miserably for himself) marrying an unfaithful woman named Gomer who bears him three children, each of them given a symbolic name

      “and what He told Hosea is not a sin to Marry a prostitute”

      he is marrying IDOLATRY

      he is told to marry a DISLOYAL AND FAITHLESS woman.

      like the woman who is seeking other men, israel is seeking other gods

      it is a SINFUL RELATIONSHIP .

      yhwh told him to MARRY into one.

      scum bag

      ” or is it a sin to marry a prostitute ?”

      idolatry and prostitution are seen as one idea in the hebrew bible.

      ” .. So tell me what God told Hosea to do that is a sin ”

      mary into idolatry and prostitution u dum b shit

      imagine your christian wife is sucking the testicles of the idol vishnu while you are knowwing she is doing this , i quote :

      . In illustration of this message Hosea is instructed to go after his wife, who has become so promiscuous, and lure her back into their relationship. That too will be what happens when Israe

      . In illustration of this message Hosea is instructed to go after his wife, who has become so promiscuous, and lure her back into their relationship. That too will be what happens when Israe

      . In illustration of this message Hosea is instructed to go after his wife, who has become so promiscuous, and lure her back into their relationship. That too will be what happens when Israe

      GO AFTER HIS WIFE ….HIS WIFE….

      “not what Gomer did because God didn’t tell Gomer to become a prostitute or speak to her.”

      u dumb , he told him to marry a whoring, disloyal and faithless AND idolatry whore

      quote:
      . In illustration of this message Hosea is instructed to go after his wife, who has become so promiscuous, and lure her back into their relationship. That too will be what happens when Israe

      .” and clearly the verses says why God told Hosea to do what He did, Hosea 1:2 When the Lord began to speak by Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea: “Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord.”.. As you can see clearly For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord…”

      the text does not seem to indicatte that they are DOING prostitution with women, but with other gods. yhwh demonstrates an INTERNAL non-physical problem by having hosis go after a WHORE and marry her ?

      idolatry starts from the heart

      ” according to you Gomer should be single out of the whole Israel and be punished even though the whole Israel has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord.”

      lol

      quote :

      In this case the problem is not principally that they have behaved in unethical ways and perpetrated social injustice and oppression. It is rather that they have rejected the worship of God and indulged, instead, in the worship of other gods. “My people consult a piece of wood and their divining rod gives them oracles. . . . They sacrifice on the tops of the mountains and make offerings upon the hills” (4:12–13).

      yhwh demonstrates an INTERNAL PROBLEM by having hosis CHASE AFTER A WHORE, mary her and KEEP IN A DISLOYAL AND IDOLATROUS RELATIONSHIP WHERE SHE IS PROSTITUTING HERSELF… this is a sin.

      yhwh told hosis to indulge in sin

      “3. Under God’s law its people that always implement the law not God coming down from heaven,”

      irrelavant bullshit

      “so if people didn’t implement God’s law you cant blame God for that… ”

      irrelavNT BS

      “so if King or whoever that suppose to implement the law at the time didn’t do it you cant say its God’s fault”

      it does not appear that the kings failed to do their jobs when it came to prostitution, it does appear that yhwh or rather hoses NEEDS A PROSTITUTE TO bang to demonstrate yhwhs hurtful feelings,…

      Like

    16. mr.heathcliff

      It appears to me that your “argument ” is “well everyone was doing it, therefore….”

      The text does not say physical prostituion was rampant, it does day prostitution of the heart was rampant and the way yhwh wanted to demonstrate it was by having hosis MARRY INTO SINFUL, faithless , disloyal relationship.

      so hosis is 11 in night wondering where his wife is

      Oh, she is getting banged by tony next door

      Didnt i say that in judaism marriage and idolatry seem to be linked

      Disloyal wife is doing the deeds of an idolater

      yhwh wanted hosis to marry into such relationship

      But since u said “everyone was doing it” then the chances of hosis satisfying his lust for prostitute increase, right?

      Like

    17. mr.heathcliff

      Quote:
      I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is f……. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman

      Lol

      Like

    18. mr.heathcliff

      To say that an invisible spirit exists as a visible human being is a contradiction, agree or disagree?

      To say something which has invisible “make up” is at same time existing as physical thing is a contradiction

      This is like saying ICE is EXISTING as steam, agree or disagree?

      Liked by 1 person

    19. mr.heathcliff

      “There is no point in Showing off to people here on forum … God knows our heart and we are suppose to be doing this for God not for showing off …”

      Did the club house encounter humble a swine like u?

      Like

    20. mr.heathcliff

      ” If God already gave the law before, He would have punish people for doing it not giving them law that he already gave them before… Why would someone read bible and still think the way you think.. Let us see if you are a honest person, show me where you first see the word and the Law of INCEST in the bible and who did Abraham’s sons marry?”

      so you agree then that there is nothing in the torah which prohib
      prohibits child marriage, incest, having sex with dead body, dressing like woman ect … for gentiles ?

      now show me where torah prohibits this …..

      i challenge you to show where torah has prohibited gentile from conducting such activities.

      torah never prohibits gentile from having sex with dead wife
      , menstrurating woman,

      Like

    21. mr.heathcliff

      qb
      QB Let me show you another example of your god allowing people to commit immoral deeds. In Deuteronomy 21:10-14, your god allowed forcefully taking a beautiful woman, forcing her to marry, and then releasing her without any care for her well-being if she failed to please her captor:

      donkey crap:
      “Seriously I am worried for you.. is everything ok? Did you not see how God instruct them to let the girl mourn first, ”

      she just seen the shock of her family members get butchered…so whats your “point” ? she is separated from her family, here is the real point :

      you dumb pig, THE SOLDIER goes with the intention of taking a BEAUTIFUL foreign woman on instruction from your god. if the woman was ugly, then….
      the text even says if after discovering anything which displeases the hebrew rapist, he will let her go….you said your god does not encourage sin…
      this law is to exploit women.


      take the slave as a wife not as concubine like some fake prophet lol,”

      if she is banged and unpleasing , she goes in hand of another rabbi….
      if she cant find another husband, she would wish she was a concubine lol
      you see how yhwh is a whore ?

      ” to the extent that He told them if for some reason after the guy already have sex with her, He is not allowed to treat her like a slave anymore,,”

      damaged goods have no value:

      he raped her you dirty scum bag

      1.suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire

      2.after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free

      here the hebrew goes to war and in back of his mind and his heart, he knows his god allows him to take SPECIFICALLY beautiful woman….and after she is raped and displeasing, she is LET go…..

      yhwh was a whore

      “not allowed to sell her and allow her to go to wherever she wishes … ”

      all due to NOT BEING SEXUALLY HAPPY with the woman

      after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money.

      “go into her” but if you are not satisfied with the product….let her go….

      yhwh was a lover of sin

      “What kind of a man are you QB? You read Quran and you see how your people are allowed to have sex with slaves without marrying them”

      your god allows “marriage” with the intention of sexual dissatisfaction entering in…

      does the quran say to let go of woman who are not sexually satisfying ?

      marriage to slavees:
      4:25

      filthy dog!

      “and nothing that says after having sex you should stop treating them like a slave”

      they would be in much better protection and condition than the “free woman” who was having difficulty finding a second husband because her first husband let her go after raping her and not being sexually satisfied.

      ” …Seriously I don’t know what you are trying to achieve by all this… what is immoral in seeing a slave girl that you like and marry her?”

      %%%%%he desires her on the condition that after he bangs her she is satisfying to continue to bang.%%%%%

      shashem rapes dinah and loves her.

      can you show me where bible prohibits THE RAPE OF THE WOMAN BEFORE HER capture or calls her rape a sin ? show, prove, where

      show where bible says that it is sin to rape beautiful woman in time of war.

      show evidence. prove.

      your god allowed RAPE

      Like

    22. mr.heathcliff

      ” Sodom and Gommorah is where Angel told Lot they want to destroy not the entire world, Lot went to a small city called Zoar, He could have gone to Canaan, Egypt is also there but he choose to stay in the cave and you are blaming God for that… Lol I want to see you blame God on judgement day..”

      you dumb pig, he was afraid in zoar, what was he afraid off ? why didnt the angel which he met prior tell him to go to egypt, unless there wasnt a divine plan for incest? ? yhwh said he saves the righteous from destruction, lots daughters had thought no righteous man existed except their father, so why yhwh made it like they are the only ones in the cave

      Like

    23. mr.heathcliff

      “I have to be honest with you , I have never met anyone like you and mr.heathcliff, The way you argue your case is soooooooooooo bad..”

      you are one of the dumbest christians known to man kind.
      show where yhwh said that it was a sin to rape women in war. show evidence.

      Like

    24. mr.heathcliff

      hey dirty donkey swine , where bible say it is sin to RAPE women and children during war?
      where bible say give NON-JEWISH lady certificate of divorce and if u dont then it is sin?
      show , prove. bring proof

      Liked by 1 person

  2. mr.heathcliff

    “So when we say Jesus is God we are referring to what John 1:1 said…”

    Who said ” only the father knows”
    And who said “i am” ?
    1 person or two different persons ? Lol

    ” we are letting people know that the WORD in John 1:1 became
    flesh and dwelt among us and as we know the WORD in John 1:1 is GOD so simple. ”

    How does “becoming flesh” and being born to a virgin demonstrate one is god? Lol

    Liked by 1 person

  3. mr.heathcliff

    “I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?… ”

    had a lying pagan like you been a muslim, you would know that god by definition is not creation. creation did not exist and then came into existance.

    whatever god creates would not be god by definition

    to say “god doesn’t have pwr to do all things” means

    “is god UNable to be UNABLE”

    HAD kafir like you been muslim , you would have known this

    “is god UNable to be UNABLE”

    Like

  4. Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh,

    Guys, I started to doubt on whether I’m true Muslim or hypocritical. And that unwanted doubt literally frightened me.

    My question is: Can I supplicate for Allah Almighty To show me some powerful signs and undeniable so I can know whether I’m hypocrite or true Muslim!?

    I feel terrified, guys! I don’t want Hell!!

    I’m very serious about it. I feel threatened with God’s Punishment!

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

      1. Well, when I was age of 15, my dad asked me if I want to be Muslim and I rejected his invitation to Islam and then I felt extremely guilty that I refused to embrace Islam and my dad told me “you don’t know what is good for you” and that night I felt guilty and so I showed next day in the morning to my dad that I know what is good for me and so I asked him “how do can I be a Muslim” and he told me to repeat after me “Ashahadu’ An la ilaha ilallah Wa Muhammad Rasulullah” and then the feelings of guilt disappeared. And then I struggled to pray like a Muslim because my dad told me if I want Paradise, I need to pray like a Muslim. And for years, I struggled to understand how to pray and I watched videos of how I learn to pray and I even downloaded apps how I can learn to pray, but Alhamdulillah I found a way how I can learn in my way how to pray in easy way, and so I begin to pray like a Muslim.

        And later on, I started to learn how to supplicate to Allah the Most High and so after I learnt how to supplicate, I started to supplicate basically for anything, but I was too ignorant about Islam, because I supplicated for forbidden things which I didn’t know it was forbidden to ask. For instance, I supplicated to Allah the Most High To reverse the time and change Shariah, and I didn’t know that it was forbidden so when I found out years later that it is forbidden to supplicate for that, then I stopped supplicating for that. And so I moved to something which is permissible.

        I embraced Islamic belief system after reciting Testimony of Faith and I abandoned Christianity for good.

        And now I fear of committing disbelief and polytheism after learning how dangerous those sins are.

        And I struggle currently to pray regulate and constantly and I even struggle to work on reviving and implementing the Tradition of Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings of God be upon him) after reading a hadith where he stated “whoever obeys me will enter Paradise”

        and now I formed new intentions after studying little bit more, I have the intention of doing good deeds for the sake of Allah Almighty and to worship Allah Almighty as I became aware that the reason why Allah created me is to worship Him without any partners according to Quran 51:56 and Quran 39:17 and prior to my conversion to Islam, I wasn’t an Islamophobe and neither my parents, I just used my life as what other kids were doing, but since now I’m a revert of Islam, I have important responsibilities to fulfill.

        And what bothers me is that my dad did not taught me about the Biography of Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) so I can develop love for him before I revert to Islam. But now I have to develop love for Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) since that’s my obligation. And what’s good is that I don’t hate Prophet Muhammad at all.

        That’s why I need to supplicate for Allah the Most High To show me some signs so I can know whether I’m true Muslim or hypocritical, because I feel threatened with His Punishment!

        Like

    1. I don’t think it’s a good idea to generalize considering how loose and unrestrictive (for the most part) sanatan dharma is, a plethora of your central texts does make a distinction including the vedas while i’d concur there are branches out there who gainsay any concept of a “disbeliever” or “infidel” but what some of your texts say (which are often important ones) can’t be tossed aside

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Seeker

        If memory serves don’t some sects believe the wicked are punished in Hell (Naraka)? So if they were punished because they were wicked (i.e. didn’t observe their “dharmic” lifestyle) then they “disbelieved” in the dharma. So believing in the dharma and following its way grants good and blessings while disbelieving in it causes pain and misery in this life and the next.

        Just because you took something that belongs to the Creator and gave it to a philosophical law doesn’t mean you got rid of the concept.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. “If memory serves don’t some sects believe the wicked are punished in Hell (Naraka)? ”

        Irrespective of sects (they often bring new teachings out of their mind) what matters is what their texts says, for going to NaRk some explicit mentions are adharma, apostasy, atheism, disbelieving in the vedas, there’s also jabs against other branches such as Jainism and Buddhism..heck there’s even blasphemy laws…sanatan dharma is too wide and loose to define and to generalize but it can’t be denied that many of their central texts starting from the source itself contradicts the modern hippie narrative…it’s pick and choose for most hindus of our time

        If you want references for what i said then let me know will drop some when i get some time

        Liked by 1 person

  5. Larry

    @Stew

    LARRY B. “…I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?”
    STEW Because it’s retarded to anyone who doesn’t follow your nonsensical religion. To begin let’s define “all things” again a simple question for you, can God be stupid? God does things worthy of His grandeur.

    What did bible say God did that is stupid ? to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid? Why is it stupid please explain why and how you know its stupid

    PS
    LARRY 1 Do you believe what John Chapter 1 says to be true ?
    STEW Hell no. It’s stolen from a philosopher named Philo

    Ok what is the meaning of Logos?

    LARRY 2 Either you believe and accept John 1 or Not lets go to according to what bible says .Do you believe the Word is Jesus ?
    STEW Define your definition of the “Word”

    Logos which I believe you know that already so now tell me what Logos means

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      LARRY B. “…I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?”
      STEW Because it’s retarded to anyone who doesn’t follow your nonsensical religion. To begin let’s define “all things” again a simple question for you, can God be stupid? God does things worthy of His grandeur.

      pig:
      What did bible say God did that is stupid ? to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid? Why is it stupid please explain why and how you know its stupid

      QUESTION :
      because you silly kafir, if god is OMNIPOTENT (all powerful) , he has the POWER to forgive WITHOUT taking on flesh.

      “taking on flesh” implies God BECOMES subject to His own POWERS

      Look how your own scholars have defined OMNIPOTENCE.

      the bible says god makes a LOT of stupid decisions like creating man and then REPENTING for what he has CREATED lol

      this is an UNWISE god.

      GOD by definition is IMMORTAL which means HE is UNDYING!

      your god is a pagan DYING god.

      “die for your sins” who are you to think that your sins are so much for god that he has to become a pathetic mortal ? who are you ?

      donkey : Either you believe and accept John 1 or Not lets go to according to what bible says .Do you believe the Word is Jesus ?

      question:

      absolutely not!
      jesus NEVER calls himself “the word”

      “STEW Define your definition of the “Word””

      “Logos which I believe you know that already so now tell me what Logos means”

      like sophia in the proverbs, yet no jew TOOK yhwhs wisdom to mean that it BECAME a female persona in the form of a woman.

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      “Hosea has nothing to gain and was not committing any sin and likewise Isaiah .”

      “Do not degrade your daughter and make her a harlot, lest the land fall into harlotry and the land be filled with depravity” (Leviticus 19:29

      “Let us go with your theory first If Hosea decides to marry a prostitute no one will say it’s a sin, its not written anywhere that it’s a sin to marry a prostitute nor a taboo , so there is no reason to make up revelation to achieve it if truly it was his desire.”

      its a depravity and hosea knows this, so he makes up revealation to fulfil his own desires irregardless if it is a depravity

      ” The reason why God told him to do what he did is to show what will happen to Israelite before it happen and it did happened same way Hosea prophecy so that goes to show it didn’t make it up”

      god told him to marry depravity in order to fulfil what god was going to do lol ?
      you are justifying your gods sins for fulfilment purpose?

      Like

    3. mr.heathcliff

      you clearly are avoiding to answer the following problems :

      Again is he God or is he not God? Not that hard of a question. God is God no matter where He is. Are you arguing that God was NOT All-Knowing, All Seeing and All hearing at one point in time?

      do you worship a CONTRADICTION?
      do you worship an allhearing-DEAF god? all-seeing-BLIND god?

      Like

    4. mr.heathcliff

      “What did bible say God did that is stupid ? to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid? Why is it stupid please explain why and how you know its stupid”

      I will give anaology.

      Imagine a man catch his wife doing adulterty, he loves her so much that he plans his own abduction and gets raped by terrorists so he can forgive his wife.

      “To take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid”

      Stupid and unwise because god does not make unwise dicision like the guy who feel cheated above.

      Is sin such a POWERFUL entity that it gives ur god night mare?

      Like

    5. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…What did bible say God did that is stupid ?’

      Regretting to make Saul the king of Israel…

      2. “…to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid?”

      Yes very,

      3. “Why is it stupid please explain why and how you know its stupid”

      Let me count the ways:

      A. He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing. The whole thing is redundant, unnecessary and there is no fundamental difference between this and pagan Greek demigods.

      B. He could have sent Jesus(as) earlier because on the grand scheme Jesus(as) is VERY late to the party by existing at the most generous 2% of mankind’s history

      C. Speaking of which what was happening to other people and nations during this time? They never once heard of Jesus(as) so did they all go to Hell then? If you say that did Moses(As), Abraham(as), David(As) etc go to Heaven? If you say yes then Jesus(as) was not neccessary and have to concede it’s possible to go to Heaven without worshipping Jesus(as).

      D. Unlike in the Hebrew Bible or the Quran where God very clearly declares who He is and what He wants or this will happen, all Christians can do is try to focus ambiguous statements from the written late “the gospel of John” to try and prove his divinity because he never makes any public declaration like times past.

      E. Could have made His followers all agree on who He is and what His core message was. Instead, it’s a bunch of infighting, forging text, and exaggerations.

      4. The point

      Either way, none of this is my point. You have conceded Jesus(as) does NOT have the attributes of God. Again if something does not have God’s attributes it can’t be God plain and simple. God is God no matter where He is or what He is doing. There are no “shedding off” attributes. God either is All-Knowing for example or He’s not. Once God says “I don’t know the Hour” then either:

      A. That thing is not God

      or

      B. You have to say God is not All-Knowing because there was a time He didn’t know something.

      So which is it?

      5. “Ok what is the meaning of Logos?”

      I don’t know what the Philo “Logos” is, but for us, the “kalam” that is Jesus(as), is simply a title because of how God created him by simply saying “be” and he was born.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Larry

        A. He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing. The whole thing is redundant, unnecessary and there is no fundamental difference between this and pagan Greek demigods.

        I don’t want to assume anything .. so please before I reply to you .. can you tell me what you mean by He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing.. How has he been doing it and how did you know how he was doing it? do u have a reference or you assume or is it Quran that told you ?

        Like

      2. Ugh, how stupid and ignorant are you, donkey? Have you even bothered to read the Tanakh? It is part of your Bible, after all?

        Look at the example of Nineveh, during the time of Jonah (pbuh). Did God forgive them after they repented or did He demand some sort of “sacrifice”?

        Now of course, the Tanakh is a complex book, written by anonymous people, who didn’t always have the same theology. Thus, in some places, the god of the Bible even requires human sacrifices. This is of course not the true God but a satanic counterfeit invented by the authors. But the point is that in many places, the true God is shown. He is a God of mercy who doesn’t need blood in order to forgive sins.

        Like

      3. mr.heathcliff

        “I don’t want to assume anything .. so please before I reply to you .. can you tell me what you mean by He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing.. How has he been doing it and how did you know how he was doing it? do u have a reference or you assume or is it Quran that told you ?”

        U dumb moronic swine, the gentiles were never told to take part in the hebrew ritual animal sacrifices

        What about the jews?

        Quote
        :

        Hosea 3:4-5(JPT) – 4. For the children of Israel shall remain for many days, having neither king, nor prince, nor sacrifice, nor pillar, nor ephod nor teraphim. 5. Afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God and David their king, and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness at the end of days.

        Hosea 14:2-3(JPT) – 2. Return, O Israel, to the Lord your God, for you have stumbled in your iniquity. 3. Take words with yourselves and return to the Lord. Say, “You shall forgive all iniquity and teach us {the} good {way}, and let us render {for} bulls {the offering of} our lips.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “How has he been doing it and how did you know how he was doing it? do u have a reference or you assume or is it Quran that told you ?”

        A. Lol first off you already admitted God forgave people previously so why do I need a reference?

        B. Old Testament/ Hebrew Bible:

        I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more. (Isaiah 43:25)

        For You, Lord, are good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon You. (Psalm 86:5)

        Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; And deliver us and forgive our sins for Your name’s sake. (Psalm 79:9)

        Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. (Micah 7:18)

        So that means God forgave others WAY before Jesus(as) even came on the scene thus his “sacrifice’ was not needed.

        2. You never answered my point regarding Jesus(as) not having God’s attributes.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Larry

        I really don’t understand you , I said John 1:1 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God you said It’s stolen from a philosopher named Philo then I ask what Logos means since it was Philo that said Logos means word you said I don’t know what the Philo “Logos” is, but for us, the “kalam” that is Jesus and meaning if Kalam is the word too… so I don’t get what you your problem is with what Philo said.. I don’t see why you have problem with Philo because he didn’t write book of John he only interpret what was written in it .. Philo said Logos means Word and Word means Jesus you said Kalam means Jesus because Kalam is the word.. Again according to bible WORD in John 1:1 is Jesus on earth and according to John 1:1 WORD is God.. so when we say Jesus is God we are right to say it because the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…

        If you say Jesus cant be the Word in John 1:1 so is either Word is God and Jesus is not …then let us put your understanding of God or Allah to test then..

        If Allah is all knowing does he know you before you were born?

        If Allah know you before you were born, were you human being before you were born or spirit being ?

        If you die as a Muslim before judgement day , are you waiting as human being or as a spirit ? are you going to heaven with your body or are you going as a spirit?

        Is your Spirit and you as a person the same or different ? if you are the same do you know everything that your spirit knows ? if you are not the same who is Allah going to punish you as person or your spirit?
        Do you believe in Spirit realm ? if you do . do they have body in spirit realm? Do you know all that is going on in the spirit realm

        Lets hear your answer maybe it can shed more light on our conversation… How Word cant be Jesus,,,

        2. “…to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid?”
        Yes very,

        He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing. The whole thing is redundant, unnecessary and there is no fundamental difference between this and pagan Greek demigods.

        Ok let see what Leviticus says and tell me why is it that God can forgive people by praying without needing Jesus to die and why does He ask for Sin offering by killing a bull?.. Or are you saying God didn’t ask for Sin offering ? if I should listen to you that why did God need Jesus to die and take away our sin.. can you explain why God needs a young bull for a sin offering ? does God eat the meat? Or drink the blood? do you know why He needs it? Why did Allah provide a sacrificial ram for Abraham ? what does he need the blood of the ram or meat for? Why cant Allah just tell Abraham fine I have seen you have good intention… why did Allah have to provide a ram ? Do you know answer to all these questions? Please if you do then it will be easier for us to understand why Jesus need to die or doesn’t need to die

        Leviticus 4:1-3
        Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins [a]unintentionally against any of the commandments
        of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord
        for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering.

        Could have made His followers all agree on who He is and what His core message was. Instead, it’s a bunch of infighting, forging text, and exaggerations.

        Well I don’t know why Allah cant just make everyone on earth agree on who He is and what His core message is… why send Mohamed when Allah is all powerful, He should have done that, make every single person on earth agree.

        Now to my question since you based your theory on what God could have done without needing Jesus to die and why its stupid

        Why did Allah create Satan then now start sending different prophets to warn us? Since Allah is all knowing all He needs to do is not create Satan, then we will not be in this situation today

        If Allah is all knowing why did He send all the prophets upon till Jesus when he knew Torah and Injeel will be corrupted ? don’t you think He could have just stop them from corrupting it

        If Allah is all knowing, Powerful and Just, why did he let Muslim baby be born in places like Afghanistan . Iraq . Libya etc that they cant survive

        I have got lot of whys but if you can give me answer to these questions then I will know that you know God’s plan , then maybe I can believe you when you say Jesus cant be God or cant take on flesh and still be God..

        Like

      6. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “…you said It’s stolen from a philosopher named Philo…

        The reason I didn’t quote him was that you refuse to read anything. But for the people at home:

        The Logos
        Philo used the term Logos to mean an intermediary divine being, or demiurge.[9] Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect Form, and therefore intermediary beings were necessary to bridge the enormous gap between God and the material world.[10] The Logos was the highest of these intermediary beings, and was called by Philo “the first-born of God.”[10]

        Philo also wrote that “the Logos of the living God is the bond of everything, holding all things together and binding all the parts, and prevents them from being dissolved and separated.”[11]

        2. “..he didn’t write book of John he only interpret what was written in it”

        No, he never once “interpreted” John as it hadn’t been written yet. Philo lived from 20 BCE to 50 CE. While “John” was written somewhere between 90-110 CE (i.e. a best case scenario of a 40-year gap) Christians stole his beliefs and incorporated it into a gnostic text thus creating your “gospel of John”.

        3. “…If you say Jesus cant be the Word in John 1:1…”

        Who argued your pagan author(s) didn’t believe Jesus was Logos? I am arguing Greek pagan philosophy < Philo < Chriistians

        4. Your stupid questions:

        A. If Allah is all knowing does he know you before you were born?

        Yes

        B. If Allah know you before you were born, were you human being before you were born or spirit being ?

        Assuming I understand your question, we were souls but that has no basis on "altering" His knowledge.

        C. "If you die as a Muslim before judgement day , are you waiting as human being or as a spirit ?

        Both. While the body will decay it will be ressurected on the Day of Jdgement to testify for or against you.

        D. are you going to heaven with your body or are you going as a spirit?

        The soul will be placed in a new body.

        E. Is your Spirit and you as a person the same or different ? if you are the same do you know everything that your spirit knows ? if you are not the same who is Allah going to punish you as person or your spirit?

        I don't understand any of these questions

        5. "…why is it that God can forgive people by praying without needing Jesus to die and why does He ask for Sin offering by killing a bull?…"

        Assuming this is true, there is no difference between "sin offering" and other similar penalties. Again simply ask jews because for some odd reason you don't think they exist. A "sin offering" is a penalty for ACCIDENTALLY breaking a commandment let's read what you wrote again slowly:

        "Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins UNINTENTIONALLY against any of the commandments of the Lord…"

        We have similar laws like this in Islam for example:

        Believers, do not kill game while you are in the state of being a pilgrim! Whoever of you kills it on purpose, then the compensation is to be a sacrificial animal just like the one that is dedicated as an offering that must reach the Kaaba. The judgment of whether that animal is equal or not will be made by two fair people,or failing this, they are to make amends by feeding the poor or fasting the equivalent number of days, so that they can taste the consequences of their decision. (5:95)

        Some sins require to you go out and d extra but NOBODY thinks it's the ONLY way God forgives period. It's a specific situation requiring more legwork. As for the "why" God answers this in the Quran:

        It's neither their flesh nor their blood that reaches God, what reaches Him is your piety… (22:37)

        God cares about the intention of doing something to please Him not the blood like some sort of blood god sacrificing virgins to a volcano like you are portraying Him as.

        6. "…Well I don’t know why Allah cant just make everyone on earth agree on who He is and what His core message is… why send Mohamed when Allah is all powerful, He should have done that, make every single person on earth agree."

        He gave free choice for people to move towards. On the contrary your religion can't even explain its foundational point with splintering into sects.

        7. "Why did Allah create Satan then now start sending different prophets to warn us? Since Allah is all knowing all He needs to do is not create Satan, then we will not be in this situation today'

        Prophets were there since the beginning. Satan was a test for humans and was tested for his hypocrisy. God knew all this before creating.

        8. "If Allah is all knowing why did He send all the prophets upon till Jesus when he knew Torah and Injeel will be corrupted ? don’t you think He could have just stop them from corrupting it"

        Because those texts were not meant for the world only a specific time and place. So the Jews as a nation were tested and the unequivocally failed ad it established another proof of their wickedness against God.

        9. 'If Allah is all knowing, Powerful and Just, why did he let Muslim baby be born in places like Afghanistan . Iraq . Libya etc that they cant survive"

        Lol serouly? For one i can easily turn this around on you. But t answer that question:

        A. Test the oppressors
        B. Test the parents for patience and their belief
        C. Kids go to Heaven where they could care less

        You are assuming this a bad thing when it may be good simply because you don't know the variables. AN easy example is one of these children might grow up to be the next Hitler. God caused them to die so that they could be in Heaven etc.

        10. Deflection

        After ALLLLL this tangent you still haven't answered my question.

        Like

      7. Larry

        LARRY B. If Allah know you before you were born, were you human being before you were born or spirit being ?
        STEW Assuming I understand your question, we were souls but that has no basis on “altering” His knowledge.

        Lol so I am guessing Muslims don’t have spirit only soul…. Lets go with soul for now

        LARRY “If you die as a Muslim before judgement day , are you waiting as human being or as a spirit ?
        STEW Both. While the body will decay it will be ressurected on the Day of Jdgement to testify for or against you.

        Both cant be waiting your body already decay its only your soul that is waiting

        LARRY . are you going to heaven with your body or are you going as a spirit?
        STEW The soul will be placed in a new body.

        The body that commit sin is gone but the new body that didn’t do anything wrong is going to hell … hmmm

        LARRY 5. “…why is it that God can forgive people by praying without needing Jesus to die and why does He ask for Sin offering by killing a bull?…”

        STEW Assuming this is true, there is no difference between “sin offering” and other similar penalties. Again simply ask jews because for some odd reason you don’t think they exist. A “sin offering” is a penalty for ACCIDENTALLY breaking a commandment let’s read what you wrote again slowly: “Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins UNINTENTIONALLY against any of the commandments of the Lord…” We have similar laws like this in Islam for example:

        STEW Believers, do not kill game while you are in the state of being a pilgrim! Whoever of you kills it on purpose, then the compensation is to be a sacrificial animal just like the one that is dedicated as an offering that must reach the Kaaba. The judgment of whether that animal is equal or not will be made by two fair people,or failing this, they are to make amends by feeding the poor or fasting the equivalent number of days, so that they can taste the consequences of their decision. (5:95) Some sins require to you go out and d extra but NOBODY thinks it’s the ONLY way God forgives period. It’s a specific situation requiring more legwork. As for the “why” God answers this in the Quran: It’s neither their flesh nor their blood that reaches God, what reaches Him is your piety… (22:37) God cares about the intention of doing something to please Him not the blood like some sort of blood god sacrificing virgins to a volcano like you are portraying Him as.

        So you mean bowing your head in prayer in not enough piety ? A ram must die in other for it be considered a piety? Funny guy

        LARRY Well I don’t know why Allah cant just make everyone on earth agree on who He is and what His core message is… why send Mohamed when Allah is all powerful, He should have done that, make every single person on earth agree.”
        STEW He gave free choice for people to move towards. On the contrary your religion can’t even explain its foundational point with splintering into sects.

        So now you are contradicting yourself lol if you know this before then why did you say God Could have made His followers all agree on who He is and what His core message was. Instead, it’s a bunch of infighting, forging text, and exaggerations

        LARRY 7. “Why did Allah create Satan then now start sending different prophets to warn us? Since Allah is all knowing all He needs to do is not create Satan, then we will not be in this situation today’
        STEW Prophets were there since the beginning. Satan was a test for humans and was tested for his hypocrisy. God knew all this before creating.

        Lol I don’t get you Prophets were there since the beginning… where and what beginning are you talking about?… I thought prophets are just human beings like us never knew they are different from us… and I thought you said Allah Knew you before you were born, that will mean you exist before you were born lol or you don’t get it… well I know Satan was a test for humans but going by your theory of questioning God why Jesus need to die for our sin It doesn’t make sense that you believe God create Satan to test us but don’t believe the same way he made Jesus to deliver us from Satan…

        LARRY “If Allah is all knowing why did He send all the prophets upon till Jesus when he knew Torah and Injeel will be corrupted ? don’t you think He could have just stop them from corrupting it”
        STEW Because those texts were not meant for the world only a specific time and place. So the Jews as a nation were tested and the unequivocally failed ad it established another proof of their wickedness against God.

        Lol when I hear Muslims say things like this I wonder how they can actually believe it lol I used to believe too but still don’t know how I was so blind … Listen to yourself… God spent over 2000yrs talking to a particular nation teaching them his ways, laws etc, other nations can see what God was doing for his people but according to you all those lessons and laws for thousands of years are just wasted but the revelation that Mohamed Got for 22yrs is what meant for the whole word come on… so over 2000yrs of teaching them something he now spend 22yrs to send outsider to teach them something completely different to what he has been teaching them for over 2000yrs

        LARRY . ‘If Allah is all knowing, Powerful and Just, why did he let Muslim baby be born in places like Afghanistan . Iraq . Libya etc that they cant survive”

        STEW Lol serouly? For one I can easily turn this around on you. But t answer that question:
        A. Test the oppressors
        B. Test the parents for patience and their belief
        C. Kids go to Heaven where they could care less
        STEW You are assuming this a bad thing when it may be good simply because you don’t know the variables. AN easy example is one of these children might grow up to be the next Hitler. God caused them to die so that they could be in Heaven etc.

        Lol you took the bait funny guy while contradicting yourself at the same time… I mentioned Muslim countries on purpose because I knew you will come up with something like this…. What about people that don’t believe in God and they still go through the same stuff in different countries?

        STEW 10. Deflection
        After ALLLLL this tangent you still haven’t answered my question.

        I am not sure of which question you are talking about I am addressing what you send but if I miss anything copy and resend the part that I miss

        With everything you said it shows you are not sure of what you are saying or don’t know what you are saying that’s why you don’t understand why Jesus can die for our sin …. You agreed Allah knew you as a soul before you became flesh,, why cant Word exist before he became Jesus but you can….who you are as a flesh is different from who you are as a soul…. One has flesh, blood etc the other doesn’t .. same way for Word to be come flesh He cant have all the same attributes he has as Word …. Your soul is in spiritual realm and your body is the physical world … Word is in the spiritual realm and Jesus physical world …. Why is possible for you but not possible for the maker of all things ….again you said Some sins require to you go out and do extra but you don’t think Jesus dying for our sin is him doing extra since you believe some sins require doing extra? According to bible Jesus came to die for the sins of the world 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit… Cant you see how big that is.

        How many bull do you think you will need to kill for that to happen… is the whole world going to contribute Ram? Will the whole world agree to contribute? According to you some sins require doing extra … the way I see this it will require doing extra to take away the sin of the whole world …. That’s exactly why God did the extra by sending his son John 3:16 For this is how God loved the world: He gave[ his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life…. You already answered your own question …. There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world…. Even if there is it will require the whole world to agree and do it together, do you see the whole world agreeing to do 1 thing together? Obviously that’s not possible even God knows that , that’s why God did the extra for us the same way you said some sin require extra… God show how much he love the world so that people can turn to him that’s why he sent his son to be the extra and his son is the only one that worth taking away the sin of the whole world and also God practise what he preach to Us when he require us doing extra when it comes to certain things…

        I am waiting for your response and the question you said I didn’t answer idwstc.

        Like

      8. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “…Both cant be waiting your body already decay its only your soul that is waiting”

        Yes…and just like your soul is resurrected…so will your physical body to testify.

        “on the Day their tongues, hands, and feet will testify against them for what they used to do.” (24:24)

        2. “…The body that commit sin is gone but the new body that didn’t do anything wrong is going to hell … hmmm”

        Not really that difficult to understand for those without a learning disability. For one, you acknowledged the body is a vehicle from the soul which is enough to refute but then that’s like saying a gun should go to Hell because you used it to shoot someone.

        3. “So you mean bowing your head in prayer in not enough piety ? ”

        For one you didn’t refute my point (like at all) and two all things neutral what made bowing automatically be considered so great? Simply because God said so.

        4. “..God Could have made His followers all agree on who He is and what His core message was. Instead, it’s a bunch of infighting, forging text, and exaggerations”

        Because you never had truth ever established at a global level point blank.

        5. “… I don’t get you Prophets were there since the beginning… where and what beginning are you talking about?”

        Adam(as) was a prophet…claims to have been a Muslim doesn’t know that…

        6. “…you said Allah Knew you before you were born, that will mean you exist before you were born lol or you don’t get it…”

        So using this logic God also revela the future through prophecy does that mean that future currently exists?

        7. ‘…he made Jesus to deliver us from Satan…’

        That makes no sense lol. Why would He forgive people then create another god to be worshipped alongside Him?

        8. “… God spent over 2000yrs talking to a particular nation teaching them his ways, laws etc, other nations can see what God was doing for his people…”

        For one multiple nations recieved prophets not just the Children of Israel but thank you for being a good slave to them as their books says you should be “Hammite”. Also what other nations saw anything? The Jews haven’t been relevant for thousands of years and haven’t had a nation let alone any affect on the world. Literally EVERY nation they have ever been has kicked them out for issues they caused (usually interest related)

        9. “…so over 2000yrs of teaching them something he now spend 22yrs to send outsider to teach them something completely different to what he has been teaching them for over 2000yrs…”

        Lol for one they’ve been wicked since their inception, within a 2 weeks of watching the sea split they worshipped a gold cow. Even right now when they cried for hundreds of years about not having a homeland the moment God gave it to them to test them they STILL don’t rule by the Torah.Next, Arabs are not “outsiders” their also Abraham’s(as) children. Three, according to YOUR theology God decided to mix it up after 3,000 years by suddenly becoming a ignorant human.

        10. “…What about people that don’t believe in God and they still go through the same stuff in different countries?”

        It’s the same answer you moron. Only add on would be “punish certain people for their disbelief”

        11. “I am not sure of which question you are talking about I am addressing what you send but if I miss anything copy and resend the part that I miss”

        ALL this BS you are talking about it is completely unrelated to my inital questions. You’re doing what’s called “burying” to get around the fact that Jesus(as) who you claim is God doesn’t have God’s attributes but you still worhip him.

        12. Your babble

        Yeah none of that is relevant at all to this basic question I asked. Again you decided God switched up randomly whil having no precedence in doing it before. One asked for forgiveness or did some portion of the law. There is no “all encompassing sacrifice” in the entirety of the Torah which shows your theology’s heretical understadnig of Jewish law.

        Liked by 4 people

      9. “LARRY . are you going to heaven with your body or are you going as a spirit?
        STEW The soul will be placed in a new body.

        The body that commit sin is gone but the new body that didn’t do anything wrong is going to hell … hmmm”

        geez….is there even a limit to your stupidity?

        Liked by 2 people

      10. Larry

        LARRY . “…I explained to you why God did what He did all you have to say about it is there no example like that before…”

        STEW That is evidence hence why it’s called “precedent” in law. I find it ironic in your desperation to compensate for your lack of knowledge you claim others don’t have it while time and time demonstrating your complete incompetence, both the Bible and Quran agree God does not change:

        “For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)
        “This is the way of those I’ve sent before, and you will find no change in My ways.’ (Q. 17:77)

        STEW When you try to equate Jesus(as) to lamb sacrifices you are trying to create a precedent dumb@$$. The problem is you are trying to make an analogy of your man idol with a legal penalty when its faulty and out of it’s context

        This is what Listening to Mohamed does to people… Even though you can read you will not understand something so simple… You are getting everything sooooo wrong… Lamb sacrifice is different from Jesus dying on the cross …they are similar in the way of atonement but different in other ways …you will find where God commands people to give Lamb sacrifice for their sins in the bible, but you can never find where God commands anyone to sacrifice Jesus for our sins in the bible…
        The reason why we call him Sacrificial lamb is because of the way He was killed and by his death he took away the sins of the world same way when Jews give sin offering they kill a ram in other for their sin to be forgiven and its after they offer the sacrifice their since can be forgiving not before the sacrifice ..
        Now lets look at differences and similarities
        Lamb is an animal — Jesus human – God commands killing of the Lamb for atonement— God never commands killing Jesus for atonement….
        Lamb is killed during the process— Jesus was killed during the process… Killing of a lamb serves as atonement — Killing of Jesus serves as atonement …Obeying and Having faith in the process of killing of the lamb…. Obeying and having faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus… Sacrificial Lamb without blemish—- Jesus without sin…

        looking at differences and similarities we can see how we cant equate the two.. Its very very important to understand that God didn’t ask for Jesus blood for sacrifice as you suggested ..there is no where in the bible you will see it.. the only thing is God knew before it happened and people ask why cant God prevent it from happening instead of allowing it… That will be God tampering with our free will and also God gave Jesus message to deliver to the world , Jesus decided to kill and God already know He will use Jesus death as a way of taking away the sins of the world so why stop it?….…
        Again there is no practising of paganism here for it to be practising paganism it will require God telling us to kill Jesus for sacrifice or even Jews killing Jesus for the purpose of sacrificing …When Jews decided to kill Jesus, they didn’t do it because they want to worship God and also it wasn’t only Jesus that was crucified… lots of people were crucified at the time and it wasn’t for purpose of worshiping any gods its just the way of killing at that time…

        LARRY …You think when Christians say God gave us his son we meant he commands us to kill his son for sacrifice…”
        STEW Never argued this. Red herring.

        Lol its funny that you said this even though just before you claimed that When you try to equate Jesus(as) to lamb sacrifices you are trying to create a precedent dumb@$$. So that is not you thinking we say God gave us his son to sacrifice like Lamb ?? this why you don’t like to explain yourself these days in other for you not to be contradicting yourself..

        LARRY You never call God pagan…”
        STEW I didn’t call God a pagan I called your bloodthirsty idol called “the Daddy” a pagan. I will say again , Daddy the “spiritual” creature wants “worldly” blood for whatever reason like the Aztec idols. All of your guys’ kufr is one religion.

        Again you said you never argued this…. But you just said I called your bloodthirsty idol called “the Daddy” a pagan . I will say again , Daddy the “spiritual” creature wants “worldly” blood for whatever reason like the Aztec idols… Lol with your own word did you not just say God wants worldly blood? Which I believe you are referring to Jesus’s blood, because I don’t see you having problem in killing a ram for atonement …

        LARRY “…What Jews did to Jesus is on them….”
        STEW What the heck are you talking about lol? I showed your man idol prayed (to himself according to your theology) that did not want to die for your sins despite allegedly being the Creator and this was his master plan.

        If this was his master plan then there will be no sin at all….. You don’t seems to think deep about this things… Just because God knew things before it happens doesn’t mean that’s what God want.. If God wants me to be a sinner before I was born.. then why will he punish me for being a sinner when I commit sin? You seems to forget that we have free will and that’s why we are all in this situation …. If God takes away our free will then no one will commit any sin…The way I am seeing this.. you will try and blame God for your actions on judgement day..

        LARRY why do you believe this and you don’t believe God gave us Jesus…”
        STEW Because…God doesn’t legislate paganism. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Here I’m gonna try in Yoruban and see if this helps your comprehension: “Ọlọrun ko ṣe ofin Paganism”

        Lol funny guy did you use google translate ? for it to be paganism like I said before it will requires God telling people to kill Jesus for sacrifice and since there is no where God commands it then it can be paganism … Using Jesus death as a way of taking away the sin of the world , its just like when police kill an innocent man because of the way they are used to doing things and government make a new law to prevent such thing to happen again does that mean we are all practising paganism every time Law changes because someone die?

        At this point you really need to think very well and stop messing around… Be honest when you think about this issue don’t just say things because Quran says this…. Mohamed say this… or the entire Muslim say that…. Define what pagan is and what needs to be done in other for something to be called paganism , Then maybe you will see how God practise it or commands us to practise it or maybe your eyes will be open to see that God didn’t do anything wrong
        The only thing God requires us to do is believe Jesus died for our sins and rose again and only trough this you can get to heaven… why did God commands this? .. because Jesus knew Jews will kill him for preaching the gospel before He came into the world and he still came knowing they will kill him, so he sacrifice himself without taking away our free will in other for us to know the TRUTH… only him can show us the truth because he was without a sin…

        If you have a child that someone want to kill, you know the person have only 1 bullet to shoot with , they point the gun at your child , will you allow the person to shoot your child or will you stand in front of the bullet for your child ? if you take the bullet it means you die and your child live … what will you do? If you take the bullet does that mean you are practising paganism ? because you sacrifice yourself knowingly for your child ? Jesus knowingly sacrificing himself for us in other for us to be close to God again… same way you didn’t ask the shooter to shoot you same way Jesus didn’t ask Jews to kill him…. But by Jesus act we are able to be reconcile with God as it was in the beginning … by your act your child will be able to continue to live as it was before the shooter interrupt … Think very well and see what Jesus did here for us… If you still think its paganism …. please explain why, same way I explained why its not… Please dont assume I know why you are calling God the father pagan .. explain and compare …

        LARRY Is that why you think by God giving us Jesus it means Human sacrifice ?”
        STEW As much as it is that as well, I am referring to your idols obsession with blood period
        What blood are you talking about?

        LARRY 14. “…People that goes to heaven before Jesus will be judge according to the law that was giving during the time they were alive…”
        STEW Thank you for disproving Christianity as you just conceded one does NOT need to believe in Jesus’s (as) “sacrifice” to get into heaven.

        How is that disproving Christianity ? Do you think God will judge people based on Law that didn’t exist while they were alive? Or are you following Moses Law since you think any law before Jesus is enough to take you to heaven..

        LARRY …what will happen to people that didn’t follow Mohamed’s teachings and laws…Surely you know God will only judge people according to the law that was giving them when they were alive”
        STEW Unlike your claim we actually have textual proof for this. Prove what you said about previous people from the Bible.

        That didn’t answer the question… if you really believe people before Mohamed will go to heaven, That means they will be judge base on the law they were giving before Mohamed… So why is it hard for you to think Jesus brought a new Law.. Mohamed’s law is clearly different from Moses’s Law..its funny how you disapprove everything about Jesus..

        STEW And (also the Jews) bragging: “We killed ‘the Messiah’ Jesus, the son of Mary, God’s ‘Messenger’.” They neither killed nor crucified him, it was only made to appear that way to them (through the stories they told and spread). Those who argue over it are full of doubts, and they have no definite knowledge to follow (because of the things they made things up), only guesses and assumptions; but they were not certain if they killed him, rather God raised him up towards Himself. God has always been the Ultimate Authority and the Source of Wisdom. (4:157-158)

        STEW his reading cleans up a bunch of issues and makes more sense in the context of the verse. There are NO sources or eyewitnesses to this alleged event. Either “Mark” or Paul (your earliest source) made this story up and the other 3 “gospels” copied and added to it. This explains why it’s missing from “Q”, the gospel of Thomas and early christianity never emphasizing it.
        Please and please explain how you and scholars such as Razi and Zamakshari read it …

        who are these people bragging ? are they alive during the time of Jesus or years after Jesus was gone some people wrote the story that didn’t exist ? Are you saying Judas never betray Jesus? Are you saying Jewish authority never arrest Jesus? Are you saying everything about the crucifixion is all lie it never happen?

        Quran 58:3
        Those who put away their wives (by saying they are as their mothers) and afterward would go back on that which they have said, (the penalty) in that case (is) the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is Informed of what ye do.

        If I divorce to my wife by saying you are like my mother and I want to marry her back, what should I do since I don’t have any slave to free

        Like

      11. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “This is what Listening to Mohamed does to people…”

        And this is further proof you’re a moron as I am not arguing an “Islamic” principle but a “legal” one.

        2. ‘…Lamb sacrifice is different from Jesus dying on the cross …”

        That’s like super interesting that you disagree with the author(s) of the “gospel of John” who spent an entire book trying to equate the two. But keep on keeping on heretic.

        3. “…looking at differences and similarities we can see how we cant equate the two…”

        Perfect I agree. Thank you for further disproving your religion.

        4. “…Again there is no practising of paganism here for it to be practising paganism it will require God telling us to kill Jesus for sacrifice or even Jews killing Jesus for the purpose of sacrificing …”

        This shows how much of a pagan you are by not understanding my point. YOU Larry worship 2 idols, “the Daddy” a plagiarizing, bloodthirsty, ignorant, weak tyrannical old man in the sky and “the Son” an ignorant, contradictory, racist, lying hypocrite. When you worship more than one God you are a pagan. Besides the obvious paganism the “Daddy” engaged in before the Son, it also requires blood sacrifices (whether willingly or not) in order to forgive his followers. Those are facts.

        5. “… lots of people were crucified at the time and it wasn’t for purpose of worshiping any gods its just the way of killing at that time…”

        So nothing the Son did was special then. THank you for disproving your religion even more.

        6. “…you don’t like to explain yourself these days in other for you not to be contradicting yourself..’

        Not really that hard to understand. You argued that Jesus(as) being sacrificed is like lamb sacrifices of old and it’s not, as per your admission thus you have NO legal precedent of God creating another god to worship alongside Him. You are now arguing God “switched thing up” (despite saying He never changes) and now wants you to worship multiple gods.

        7. “… Lol with your own word did you not just say God wants worldly blood? Which I believe you are referring to Jesus’s blood, because I don’t see you having problem in killing a ram for atonement …”

        I will simplify, does God require blood in order to forgive? Yes or no answer please.

        8. “…You don’t seems to think deep about this things…’

        No, YOU don’t “think deep about things”, your man idol who you claim wanted to be the sacrifice for the world’s sins prayed (to himself) to save himself from said plan he created.

        9. “…you will try and blame God for your actions on judgement day..”

        Why can’t I beat the “Daddy” in both a physical fight and debate as others did in your Bible?

        10 “…does that mean we are all practising paganism every time Law changes because someone die?”

        No, it does though when the government asks us to worship the man alongside God.

        11. “…Define what pagan is and what needs to be done in other for something to be called paganism…’

        Sure, worshipping multiple gods like your religion teaches.

        12. “…The only thing God requires us to do is believe Jesus died for our sins and rose again and only trough this you can get to heaven… why did God commands this?

        He didn’t.

        13. “…Jesus knew Jews will kill him for preaching the gospel before He came into the world and he still came knowing they will kill him, so he sacrifice himself without taking away our free will in other for us to know the TRUTH…”

        Except you know when HE PRAYED FOR GOD TO SAVE HIM AND THUS NEVER WANTED TO DIE FOR YOUR SINS lol.

        14. “…Jesus knowingly sacrificing himself for us in other for us to be close to God again… ”

        Other than the fact that we know he didn’t because he prayed to be saved, this does the exact opposite of bringing us closer to God because now there are TWO things people worship and call on aka paganism.

        15. “Please dont assume I know why you are calling God the father pagan .. explain and compare…”

        Sure

        Pagans believe in multiple gods= Christians believe in multiple gods

        Pagans give God anthropomorphic attributes= Christians give God anthropomorphic attributes

        Need I go on?

        16. “What blood are you talking about?”

        The blood you say is full of “spiritual mysteries” or whatever fortune 8 ball crazy stuff you be saying.

        17. “…How is that disproving Christianity ? ”

        because you acknowledge people don’t need to believe in your idol

        18. “…Do you think God will judge people based on Law that didn’t exist while they were alive? ”

        This is one of the many plotholes of your religion so you tell me with Biblical proof.

        19. “…Or are you following Moses Law since you think any law before Jesus is enough to take you to heaven..”

        Why not? Is your god inconsistent and will let one person into heaven and another to hell despite doing the same thing?

        20. “That means they will be judge base on the law they were giving before Mohamed… …So why is it hard for you to think Jesus brought a new Law.. ”

        Because this is not a “new law” but a complete overhaul of established theological beliefs. Also again we have texts stating this, where is your proof from the bible of what you claim? Bring it if you’re speaking the truth.

        21. A. “who are these people bragging ?

        The Jews during the time of the Prophet(saw)

        21. B. are they alive during the time of Jesus or years after Jesus was gone some people wrote the story that didn’t exist ?

        You are conflating 2 things together. God is talking about what the Jews were “joking about” in regards to Jesus(as) God is refuting them by saying none of this ever happened.

        21. C. Are you saying Judas never betray Jesus? Are you saying Jewish authority never arrest Jesus? Are you saying everything about the crucifixion is all lie it never happen?”

        I have no knowledge to answer if Judas betrayed Jesus(as) just an unreliable source saying this is what happened. But the tales of the passion I believe are ENTIRELY made up from a to z.

        22. “…If I divorce to my wife by saying you are like my mother and I want to marry her back, what should I do since I don’t have any slave to free…”

        You should read the next verse:

        But whoever doesn’t have the means should fast for two months straight before they touch one another. Anyone who can’t do this should then feed sixty of the poor. This has been laid down so that you can have perfect faith in God and His Messenger. These are the limits God has set and there will be a painful punishment for those who don’t believe. (58:4)

        Also, how is this relevant to the discussion of you worshipping idols that don’t have God’s attributes?

        Liked by 2 people

    6. mr.heathcliff

      “I don’t want to assume anything .. so please before I reply to you .. can you tell me what you mean by He could have just forgiven humanity like you know He’s been doing.. How has he been doing it and how did you know how he was doing it? do u have a reference or you assume or is it Quran that told you ?”

      U dumb moronic swine, the gentiles were never told to take part in the hebrew ritual animal sacrifices

      What about the jews?

      Quote
      :

      Hosea 3:4-5(JPT) – 4. For the children of Israel shall remain for many days, having neither king, nor prince, nor sacrifice, nor pillar, nor ephod nor teraphim. 5. Afterwards shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God and David their king, and they shall come trembling to the Lord and to His goodness at the end of days.

      Hosea 14:2-3(JPT) – 2. Return, O Israel, to the Lord your God, for you have stumbled in your iniquity. 3. Take words with yourselves and return to the Lord. Say, “You shall forgive all iniquity and teach us {the} good {way}, and let us render {for} bulls {the offering of} our lips.

      Liked by 1 person

    7. mr.heathcliff

      Hey moron, where did the ot tell the gentiles to go to jewish temple for forgivenss of sins? It never does, so were noahide jews without forgiveness? Quicly google the answer

      Liked by 1 person

  6. mr.heathcliff

    “Lol, for all we know, Hosea could have made up the revelation because he had a thing for Gomer and didn’t want to see her executed for her crime. That’s a plausible interpretation of we follow donkey Larry’s own logic.”

    did you know, as long as yhwh fulfills something for someone, you can have a thing for gomer.

    “Do not degrade your daughter and make her a harlot, lest the land fall into harlotry and the land be filled with depravity” (Leviticus 19:29

    as long as yhwh fulfills something for someone u can have a thing for gomer. yhwh is much of a scum bag like his biblical pimps.

    Like

  7. mr.heathcliff

    “to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid? ”

    Think about it u moron.
    before your god CREATED adam , he knew that adam would do IRRIVERSABLE damage which would cause him to come down as urinating and pissing man, so what ur god did, he put tree in garden and put in emotions and desires in adam which would cause adam down fall and ur pagan gods judgement by jewish law. Unwise.

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “to take on flesh and die for our sins is stupid? ”

      It is like saying that god has power and dominion over everything yet he still drinks deadly poison because sins are too great to forgive. So how he has dominion?

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “How has he been doing it and how did you know how he was doing it? ”

        what is your concept of god? Ruler, creator , has power over the universe? Can change heart and minds at will? is able to guide? if yes, then such concept should inform u that god being loving, kind and forgiving is able to forgive without punishing another

        In your religion forgiveness is punishment which makes no sense.

        Like

  8. mr.heathcliff

    “Ok let see what Leviticus says and tell me why is it that God can forgive people by praying without needing Jesus to die and why does He ask for Sin offering by killing a bull?.. ”

    Hosea says offer the bull of prayer, why did your god create an exception? your god never told poor people to offer animal, why the exception? Why adjustable sacrifice? If it was about blood sacrifice , why not start with least expensive , like pigeon?
    Why your ot god so ritualistic like pharisee? If animal blood has power to atone for sins, your pagan jesus becomes useless because animal blood clears sin, but why the ot never says animal blood is the only way and requires things ACCOMPANIED with it like guilt, repentance, and deed of sacrifice? Is ot saying that human DEEDS like repenting, sacrificing and feeling sorrow through demonstration is process which is requirement? So then the BLOOD of animal is USELESS without human works.

    “Or are you saying God didn’t ask for Sin offering ?”

    No, your god asked for a list of human deeds, the offerings were DEPENDANT on a process which involved human actions, they were NOT A NECCESITY like your pagan jesus “sacrifice” is in your pagan religion

    ” if I should listen to you that why did God need Jesus to die and take away our sin.. can you explain why God needs a young bull for a sin offering ? ”

    Can you explain how transfer of sins and punishing another object is forgiveness of sins? How is punishing another and forgiving the same thing?
    Why didnt god say “offer the bull”? Why was this accompanied by a list of things like feeling guilt while watching the animal die? Why if BLOOD already atoned? Why human deeds neccessary?

    “does God eat the meat? Or drink the blood? ”

    Yes, by way of smelling it. Read noah and his burnt offering which gave yhwh pleasing aroma

    “do you know why He needs it? ”

    because he likes smell of berbecue? he likes humans doing sacrificial act?

    “what does he need the blood of the ram or meat for?”

    How could a pagan like u ask this.question.if u were muslim? this sacrifice most likely symbolic for gratitude because of obediance to Gods will.
    Was your pagan god a gratitude offering to show the good in humanity?

    “Why cant Allah just tell Abraham fine I have seen you have good intention… why did Allah have to provide a ram ? ”

    The sacrificial act would be a demonstration of.abrahams goodness. It would also show that humans are not to be sacrificed.
    It is not enough to have just.intention without EXTERNAL works in form of prayer, sacrifice , charity ect.

    Why God create a system where life is taken is a completely different question from a god unable to forgive and planning his weekend self execution.

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “Or are you saying God didn’t ask for Sin offering ?”

      No, your god asked for a list of human deeds, the offerings were DEPENDANT on a process which involved human actions, they were NOT A NECCESITY like your pagan jesus “sacrifice” is in your pagan religion

      ///

      I meant.the animal offerings. The deeds were a neccessity.

      Like

  9. mr.heathcliff

    larry the scum bag wrote :
    “You already answered your own question …. There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world….”

    thats not what yhwh says :

    This flatly contradicts God’s own teachings, that we are supremely in command of our spiritual destiny through our actions. See Genesis 4:7; Deuteronomy 30: 11-14, 19-20; Ezekiel Chapters 18 and 33. Also Psalms 145:18.

    GOD “take away the sin” through CREATING RESPENTANCE, OBEDIANCE IN THE THE DEEDS AND HEARTS OF MEN

    Liked by 1 person

  10. mr.heathcliff

    “. There is nothing anyone of us can do that cant be extra in other to take away the sin of the world….”

    your god died for pagan idolatry, knows idolaters are never going to accept him, JUDGES them on day of judgement and sends them to hell, so why did your pagan god punish himself for idolatry, WHERE DID the idolatry go? the idol worshipper is punished in hell, SO what pathetic useless act of “take away sin of IDOLATRY…..” ?

    your god put rape action on himself/punished himself, rapist NEVER accepts yyour pagan god, your god judges him on d.o.j and PUNISHES RAPIST in hell….for what your pagan god POURED rape on himself ? lol

    ITS absolute nonsense.

    Like

  11. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I wish to have power so I can revive and implement the Tradition of Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) as he stated that whoever obeys me will enter Paradise.

    And I wish to get in touch with Emir of Kuwait so we(kuwaitis) can make Kuwait be first Islamic State that is free from innovation, secularism and liberalism. And I wish to get have live chat conference with all Muslim rulers so we can discuss on how we should revive and implement the Divine Laws, because my intention is to make non-Muslim countries such as USA, France, Canada etc. (i.e. to embrace Islam and implement Shariah whole and fully) before Sun appears from West and before death comes to us so we can be raised on the Day of Judgement among true and sincere believers and I wish on the Day of Judgement to make less people who will be raised among disbelievers and hypocrites, how beautiful it’ll be if 97% of mankind and jinnkind would enter Paradise?

    Also, I wish to lead whole mankind to the Highest Garden of Paradise without any Judgement and Punishment, but I don’t know what should I do.

    My questions are:

    1. Is this project: realistic or unrealistic? if it is unrealistic, then why it is unrealistic?
    2. What kind of social society do I need to have in order to get in touch with all Muslim rulers?
    3. If I become a real Sunni Muslim scholar of Islam like Ibn Taymiyyah, would I be granted access to any Muslim ruler?
    4. Also, are there deeds I can do daily so I can reach Highest Garden of Paradise without any Judgement and Punishment?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      Brothers in islam, i quote:

      Surah 75:3–4, “Does mankind think that We cannot assemble his bones? Nay,We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.”

      This ayah is indicating that Allah swt is brininging back the very tips which were used on earth?

      I mean for Allah the exalted all things are posible even restoring the “old tips” right?

      Are there any narrations or verses which say contrary to my understanding so i can correct

      Like

  12. Truth seeker

    Is it true that when Muslims entered Afghanistan then hindus, buddhists and other non-muslims were killed and raped by Muslim army? because Hindus use this sentence ‘tumhaare poorwajon ne talwaar dekh kr salwaar utaar di’

    Like

    1. The burden of proof is on the Pajeets. They’re the ones making the accusation, so they need to provide evidence. But since they are known to lie about historical events, this is probably just another pseudo-historical claim to demonize Muslims. The Hindutva thugs like to spread propaganda.

      Liked by 2 people

  13. Truth seeker

    My exam is near and I haven’t studied much so is there any dua or something which can help me achieve 520/720 in my examination. Only two days are left for examination.

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @Truth Seek

      Rabbi zinee alma (My Lord increase me in knowledge)

      And make sincere dua.

      May Allah who is the All-Knowing master of the heavens and earth increase you in knowledge and make your test easy.

      Also here’s a video on how to study efficiently (tie your camel and all that):

      Liked by 2 people

    2. ” any dua or something which can help me achieve 520/720 in my examination. ”

      I guess you gonna skip chapters….prostrate and ask Allah to guide you so that you study only whatever is gonna come out on the paper, I did that during my A levels and man it was probably a miracle, I was depressed and as a result I procrastinated and studied a few random chapters only the night before the exams, I just put my trust in Allah and good Lord the next day i got the exact same chapters I studied and not one of the questions was from the chapters that I ignored…I’m not asking you to ignore any chapters whatsoever, just try your best to complete your notes but if you feel that you won’t be able to then at least ask Allah to guide you

      Liked by 1 person

  14. mr.heathcliff

    “Shedding blood”

    yeah, in torah an animal which gores its owner is shed.

    a human who does adultery is shed

    If u kill an idolater your act of KILLING atones 4 ur sins.

    An animal carries away sins and is not shed

    animal eat other animal

    Human have been eating meat since garden of eden

    yhwh was not VEGETARIAN at garden of eden.

    he “killed animal” to CLOTH adam says the crosstians .

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      Now question to pig larry

      1. How does an animal cooking under the sun effect atonement? Are sins PHYSICAL? How is rotting of flesh effect atonement?

      2. Why yhwh like pagan ritual so much that he REGRESSED and provided human SACRIFICE???????

      3. Larry said its a “spiritual” thing so why.wasnt.it.DEALT with “spiritually” ? why jesus did “works” to be seen by men?

      4. flesh body is CREATED. blood is created…how does its SHEDDING show the forgiveness of god? How it show gods mercy? THERE IS no mercy, we were ALL punished by having our sins TRANSFERRED., then NAILING jebus….where.is.the mercy? god gave.us all a BLOODY.nose

      5. This is like the shia, they abuse themselves physically and mentally, the crosstian does it mentally and wears crosses made from gold cause he dont wanna live a life of suffering and endure till the end.

      Like

  15. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I wish to supplicate to God Almighty, because I have important requests to make. I want to ask God Almighty To bless Romania with His guidance and bless China, Myanmar and India with His guidance so they’ll become Muslim countries and later on to become Islamic States, so Indian Muslims and Chinese Muslims will feel secure, and Myanmar Muslims to feel secure so they can worship God Almighty.

    And I wish to ask God Almighty To bless me and whole Ummah with great power so we can revive and implement the Tradition of Prophet Muhammad(peace and blessings of God be upon him) as he stated that whoever obeys me will enter Paradise.

    And I wish God Almighty To bless me with Iphone 13 Pro Max and Ipad Pro and with success so I can pass the exams of grade 12 which I will give it next year.

    And I wish to ask God Almighty To bless me and whole Ummah with His protection against polytheism and disbelief until our last breath, and To bless me and whole Ummah with good death, and To set us free from hypocrisy and protect us from hypocrisy.

    And I wish to ask God Almighty To not punish me and whole Ummah in grave.

    My questions are:

    1. Is establishing an Islamic State: optional or obligatory thing?
    2. may I know when God Almighty accepts and answers the supplications at moment of Friday?
    3. May I know what are best times where God Almighty most likely answer the supplications?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ alexander

      1. Obligatory for those with the power to do so

      2. Difference of opinion ranging from when the speaker sits to just before Magrib comes in safest thing is just making dua all day.

      3. Tahajuud, breaking the fast and traveling off the top of my head.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I don’t like when people call the Messenger of God as pedophile, rapist and terrorist. I feel offended when they do this! It breaks my heart when these monsters are abusing the Messenger of God!

    Can I supplicate for the God of Abraham To Punish severely like no one is punished among the worlds for abusing the Messenger of God?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

      1. Mishal

        @stew
        I have a question. Ya know these debates about aqeedah and the attributes of Allah, etc. How come there isn’t a clear consensus on these issues?Especiallysince affirming or denying the attributes will lead to one’s akhira being effected?

        Like

      2. stewjo004

        @Mishal

        Because it was never talked about by the Sahaba (the very discussion stems from Christianity about God’s attributes when talking about Isa (as)) and the best answer for the lay Muslim is to not think about it.

        Liked by 1 person

  17. stewjo004

    @ Looney Larry

    “I ask @Stew and he ran from it lol….”

    Nobody ran from your retarded question you literally committed a heresy in your religion dumb@$$. Christianity does NOT teach Jesus(as) “powered down” while he was on Earth. So are you conceding you don’t believe in mainstream Christianity?

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      Because you brought me up, your heresy of “powering down” Jesus(as) while he was on Earth (or the “physical realm” as you call it) is what the Council of Chalcedon was about:

      “There are five main truths with which the creed of Chalcedon summarized the biblical teaching on the Incarnation:

      1. Jesus has two natures — He is God and man.
      2. Each nature is full and complete — He is fully God and fully man.
      3. Each nature remains distinct.
      4. Christ is only one Person.
      5. Things that are true of only one nature are nonetheless true of the Person of Christ….

      Jesus Is Man
      It should be obvious that if Jesus is God, then he has always been God. There was never a time when he became God, for God is eternal. But Jesus has not always been man. The fantastic miracle is that this eternal God became man through the incarnation approximately 2,000 years ago…But what exactly do we mean when we say that God the Son became man? We certainly do not mean that he turned into a man in the sense that he stopped being God and started being man. Jesus did not give up any of his divinity in the incarnation…Christ “was not now God minus some elements of his deity, but God plus all that he had made his own by taking manhood to himself.”3 Thus, Jesus did not give up any of his divine attributes at the incarnation. He remained in full possession of all of them. For if he were to ever give up any of his divine attributes, he would cease being God….”

      https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-can-jesus-be-god-and-man

      So your pagan “separating” of the mind/body and soul is not what is talked about concerning Jesus(as) in Christianity so go on and keep explaining your idol being ignorant of the Hour and not having God’s attributes you littel heretic, you.

      Liked by 1 person

  18. Hey guys,

    I wish to supplicate to God Almighty while being in prostration in any language, because that’s the best time for supplications to be most likely answered.

    But only problem, I don’t know how to read, speak and talk Arabic as I forgot years ago when I left Kuwait and came to Romania.

    And I wish I can supplicate to God Almighty in Romanian language as I feel comfortable with it mainly because it is my mother tongue.

    My questions are:

    1. Why I cannot recite supplications in any language other than Arabic?
    2. What’s the ruling on reciting supplications in any other language than Arabic while being in prostration?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Alexander

      You can say your supplications in your language. The spots that are Arabic in the salah are only reciting the Quran while standing, the “transitions” (Allah hu akbar, sami Allah holy man hamidah) and the tashahud (at tie he yatu li lahi….)

      Like

  19. Hey guys,

    I wish to ask God Almighty To bless me with Iphone 13 Pro max and Ipad Pro, and To bless me with ancient Egyptian gold coins and ancient Egyptian gold bars, and Dacian gold coins, and I wish to be blessed with skills in science, technology, engineering and design so I can have fun in constructing super advanced vehicles, machines and devices with futuristic design.

    My questions are:

    1. Is this type of supplication: acceptable or not acceptable?
    2. Am I committing a heinous crime if I love worldly life more than Hereafter??

    P.S. The reason I ask is because, I’ve been told that I must supplicate for only beneficial things and not for non-beneficial things, but I wish badly to be blessed with these things I mentioned, because it’s my hobby to collect ancient gold coins and ancient gold bars with 500 Karatees. And also, it’s my dream to have Iphone 13 Pro Max and Ipad Pro, and Iphone 13 Pro Max will show up this year, and my parents promised me to reward me with Iphone 13 Pro max and Ipad Pro if I only pass the exams successfully.

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

      1. Mish'al

        Essentially the argument is that if a complex design requires a creator, that creator in it of itself must be complex enough to create it thus requiring it an origin. I’m kinda paraphrasing here as I saw it briefly on twitter.

        Like

      2. This is called infinite regress. It’s basically the same as saying “if God created everything, who created God”. But infinite regress is nonsense. This is where the difference between something that is contingent vs something that is necessary is important. God is not contingent on anything. He is necessary for everything.

        Like

      3. stewjo004

        @ Mishal

        The issue is they believe Allah is like His creation (i.e. in their mind they think Allah is some old man in the sky) Allah has always existed before time itself. One of His names is Al-Fatir (The Trigger) think of it like if you had a row of dominos and that finger that “started” that process is fatir. Allah has always been the same state, He’s always been Allah, there was never needing to become complex as

        Liked by 1 person

  20. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I wish to offer tomorrow on Duha and Ishraq prayers, but this night will be the first night to offer Night prayer at Last Third of Night.

    My questions are:

    1. How can I offer Duha and Ishraq prayers?
    2. Is there a way of how to offer Duha and Ishraq prayers without getting confused?
    3. Is there a website which helps me to calculate when Ishraq and Duha prayers occure at my own location? If so, may I have it?
    4. How many units of Duha and Ishraq did the Messenger of God(peace be upon him) offered?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  21. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I really can’t wait to have my supplications answered by Allah Almighty, because I have kept on supplicating to Allah Almighty for something really important.

    Also, I wish to ask Allah Almighty for forgiveness of all major sins of my past

    My questions are:

    1. Is there a remembrance that promises forgiveness for all major sins? If yes, may I know what it is?
    2. Is it regarded as “begging” Allah if I say “Oh Allah! Please, bless me with this or that and I implore You my Lord”?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Alexander

      1. How can I offer Duha and Ishraq prayers?

      Wait a bit after fajr

      2. Is there a way of how to offer Duha and Ishraq prayers without getting confused?

      These are not different prayers. Ishraq is when you pray a little after sunrise and Duha is when you delay this sunnah between sunrise and dhur.

      3. Is there a website which helps me to calculate when Ishraq and Duha prayers occure at my own location? If so, may I have it?

      On your athan app, it will usually have sunrise on there aso some let you have a notification of duha/ishraq

      4. How many units of Duha and Ishraq did the Messenger of God(peace be upon him) offered?

      2

      1. Is there a remembrance that promises forgiveness for all major sins? If yes, may I know what it is?

      Not that I’m aware of but Allah hu alim

      2. Is it regarded as “begging” Allah if I say “Oh Allah! Please, bless me with this or that and I implore You my Lord”?

      It’s okay to beg Allah as He is the only one who can help you.

      Like

  22. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I wish to hide my sins whether they are minor or major ones including the mistakes which I do, and I wish to hide them from public of the Day of Judgement and I wish my sins to be kept hidden and secret.

    My questions are:

    1. Is it ok for me to supplicate for God Almighty To hide my sins and mistakes from public of the Day of Judgement?
    2. What I must do in order to have my sins and mistakes hidden and kept secret on the Day of Judgement?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ alexander

      1. Yes you’re supposed to hide your sins:

      Narrated Abu Huraira:

      I heard Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) saying. “All the sins of my followers will be forgiven except those of the Mujahirin (those who commit a sin openly or disclose their sins to the people). An example of such disclosure is that a person commits a sin at night and though Allah screens it from the public, then he comes in the morning, and says, ‘O so-and-so, I did such-and-such (evil) deed yesterday,’ though he spent his night screened by his Lord (none knowing about his sin) and in the morning he removes Allah’s screen from himself.”
      https://sunnah.com/bukhari/78

      2. Cover the sins and mistakes of others:

      Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Apostle (ﷺ) as saying:

      The servant (who conceals) the faults of others in this world, Allah would conceal his faults on the Day of Resurrection.

      https://sunnah.com/muslim/45

      Like

  23. Also one more thing I would like to ask.

    I have created an Islamic server which seeks to lead people to Paradise by giving Dawah to people and acting all the time upon Ahlul Sunnah Waal Jamaah, and I’m trying to look for some rules that are with accordance to Shariah, so I can make my server act upon these rules.

    1. Do we have verses and narrations which forbids insulting, giving invalidity and criticism against anything related to Islam whether it is Angels, Prophets and Messengers, God Almighty, Paradise and Hellfire etc.? If yes, may I have it?

    2. Do we have verses and narrations which tells us instructs us to offer prayers and charity? If yes, may I have them?

    3. Do we have verses and narrations which prohibits feminism, modernism and liberalism? If yes, can I have them?

    4. Do we have verses and narrations which instructs us to not break our promises and oaths when we make to someone? If yes, may I have them?

    5. Do we have verses and narrations which prohibits committing polytheism and disbelief? If yes, may I have them?

    6. Do we have verses and narrations which prohibits one from supporting or condoning terrorism and violence?

    7. Do we have verses and narrations which instructs us to bring proof if we are truthful? If yes, may I have it?

    8. Do we have verses and narrations which instructs us what to do during Holy Ramadan and during Arafat? If yes, may I have it?

    9. Do we have verses and narrations which which prohibits listening to music and watching awrah? If yes, may I have it?

    P.S. The reason I ask is because I have created a discord server and this week I’m going to update it and make it look professional and smart, and I wish to give Dawah to non-Muslims. And this discord server will act according to Ahlul Sunnah Waal Jamaah 100%.

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  24. mr.heathcliff

    Larry:

    I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is f……. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman

    Like

  25. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I feel so happy that I begun to revive and implement the Sunnah correctly just today started. But I don’t understand only one thing about Midday prayer.

    Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) said whoever offered 4 units before Midday and 2 units after Midday, will have protection from Hellfire, and that’s what I did today!

    I have also created a server which it’s goal is to lead people to Paradise without any Judgement and Punishment, because since that’s my goal, I don’t want to be selfish. Just imagine 98% of mankind will be admitted to Paradise without any Punishment and Judgement! And less people who are hypocrites and disbelievers will be in Hellfire.

    I don’t know how to make a segregated server.

    My questions are:

    1. If I offer 4 units before Midday(Dhuhr) and 2 units after Midday, will I be guaranteed security from Hellire? Meaning, I will never go to it when Day of Judgement occurs?
    2. How do I know if my prayers are accepted and valid or rejected and invalid? Are there signs for me to know this?
    3. Can I have a ruling for mixing genders? So I won’t a mistake.
    4. Are there deeds I can do daily so I will not see at all Hellfire when Day of Judgement begins?
    5. Are there deeds I can do daily so I can cross Straight Path bridge with ease and without difficulties?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  26. Mishal

    Oh Allah I ask you by the means of your prophet peace be upon him to protect us from the heresy of the anthropomorphists. Indeed they are perversed and are the worst of the creation. May you grant us knowledge and understanding.
    Peace and blessings be upon the crowned one peace be upon him and the people of the household and the noble companions may Allah be pleased with them. Ameen.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I feel literally offended when Christians love to insult The God of Abraham(Allahu Ibrahim) by calling Him as “best deceiver”.

    And I wish God Almighty would reveal “end time” prophesy to His Messenger something like

    Abu Hurayra reported in a sahih Bukhari that the Messenger of God announced that there will be a young Muslim man who will supplicate to his Lord so Al Hudud shall be abolished and when he will do that, no one will call my Ummah as backward and barbarians.

    My questions are:

    1. Is it ok to have this wish which I described?
    2. How should we deal with arrogant disbelievers who insult The God of Abraham? What should we do in this case?
    3. Why God Almighty did not revealed such prophesy?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  28. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I need to supplicate for God Almighty To increase my life span so I can have enough time to do Qadha and fulfill the obligations which He entrusted us with.

    My question is: can I supplicate for God To increase my life span just so I can have enough time to fulfill the obligations and duties which He entrusted us with!?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  29. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I’m literally sick of this life mainly because I have to obey every single thing which my mom orders me to do, you want to know her orders!?

    My mom’s orders are:

    1. Do not wake up at Fajr
    2. Do not to not offer salatul Layl
    3. Do not stay all the time on Intenet

    And she literally puts this damn thing called Qustodio on my laptop and android, and she literally changed her password so I won’t add extra time for myself on Qustodio which is a parental app.

    And I just realized that all my prayers are rejected, because I thought I have recited correctly surah Al Fatiha, and I feel angry about this and disappointed.

    My questions are:

    1. If I end my life will I still enter Hell to stay there in forever!?
    2. How should I fulfill my oath which I made to God Almighty that I will go to Mosque and offer prayers there if my mom doesn’t let me to do this!?

    P.S. The reason I stay on Internet is to look for valuable and beneficial information which can help me in afterlife and Hereafter! But no! My mom doesn’t see that way.

    Like

  30. Larry

    @QB

    Donkey Larry thinks killing a baby in a particular era was okay. This, folks, is why Christianity is an evil religion. It rots the brain and makes normally reasonable people into unreasonable zombies. When a person decides murdering a baby is not a sin, they have crossed the line between sanity and insanity.

    Its funny that you have been commenting on what people say but you refuse to reply me… is it that you have seen how Mohamed lied about being scared ? lol funny guy… you can admit I was right about Mohamed

    Like

    1. 😂😂 Lol, is donkey Larry serious??? After stalling and not responding to me, donkey thinks I’m not responding to him? Check your last response to me, you idiot. Why are you pretending I didn’t respond?

      You’re a joke, donkey. A pathetic joke. And so is your evil religion. I mean really? Incest, murder, infanticide, adultery…your book more rightly belongs in the pornographic industry. 😂😂

      Liked by 2 people

    2. Vaqas Rehman

      @Larry

      “you will find where God commands people to give Lamb sacrifice for their sins in the bible, but you can never find where God commands anyone to sacrifice Jesus for our sins in the bible…”

      If the NT and God himself regard and interpret the event as a sacrifice for sin, what exactly are you objecting to?

      If the people who would’ve crucified Jesus(a.s) or the “god-man” in your view were zealous and faithful believers , knowledgeable of what the Hebrew sculptures allegedly teach and execute this event not as a rejection but as an act of worship to ensure their own salvation, are saying that would be a sin? And if God commanded such an action to an entity that would be commanding evil?

      You know this is something I’ve always wondered with Christianity and since you brought it up I may as well ask you. Do you not not find it the least bit odd that the event that directly leads to your salvation HINGES on the executors of said event being ignorant of the scriptures?

      Think about it. Let’s assume for this the whole narrative is true and the alleged “prophecies” of it and the incarnation as well. If it was really so obvious that the second person of the godhead would incarnate and attach to himself a human nature for the purpose of dying and then raised from the dead wouldn’t they be the first to become his flock? Either God purposefully led them down this line of thinking with the scripture they have or they were so demonstrably ignorant of God’s plan. Either one is needed for your salvation and both are problematic.

      So let’s hear it Larry, why does God need a lie of omission or the theological equivalent of a missed high-five?

      Liked by 2 people

  31. mr.heathcliff

    4. “…Again there is no practising of paganism here for it to be practising paganism it will require God telling us to kill Jesus for sacrifice or even Jews killing Jesus for the purpose of sacrificing …”

    eh? this one bull s.

    quote:

    What were jews supposed to do? Put yourself in their shoes!
    If their animals cannot save them, and the all loving god came to the earth to become the perfect sacrifice for them instead of their animals, then why is it so wrong to sacrifce that god who came to be sacrificed if this is the only way for them to be saved?

    :::::::

    Are you saying if jews had submitted to Jesus’ authority, they would have not killed him?
    Don’t forget that your belief states that Jesus loved so much to be killed instead of their animals so that they can be free from the worthless law he had given to them because Jesus is all loving god.
    Otherwise how can they get their salvation then? There’s no way!
    Also,
    God had given the Old Law to be obeyed & done, yet it’s worthless.
    God then gave the New law( blood of Jesus) in out of love to be done & accomplished. Where’s the evil in this matter?
    It’s not Jews’ fault that their animals’ blood cannot meet God’s justice, so no idea why you keep reapting the subject of why God permits evil unless you say it’s evil from God to demand blood.
    “Even that would not mean anyone has free license to unilaterally attempt to spill His blood at any time.”
    Aha! Are you saying Jews were sinners because they had no license to kill Jesus? Who had that license to accomplish that amazing mission which all loving god came specifically to earth for?
    Who are those people who should have killed Jesus?

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      11. “…Define what pagan is and what needs to be done in other for something to be called paganism…’

      let the jews who are sitting in moses seat define it for a dirty pagan like u, jesus said to listen and obey them:

      If the One to whom Jesus prayed was a sufficient God for Jesus why then is He not a sufficient God for you? What will you be missing if you do not give your entire heart to the God that the Jewish people pray to? Why do you also find the need to give your heart to Jesus? Is the majesty of God not enough for your heart that you need to supplement it with the attraction your heart feels toward one of His subjects?

      Like

  32. mr.heathcliff

    13. “…Jesus knew Jews will kill him for preaching the gospel before He came into the world and he still came knowing they will kill him, so he sacrifice himself without taking away our free will in other for us to know the TRUTH…”

    you dumb christian moron, from the christian paradigm, whether the jews believed or not ,he (jew)would have to “sacrifice” jeesus because from pauls perspective animal offerings arent pleasing aroma to yhwh anymore. human LIFE for animal life for sins. thats paganism . thats what pagans used to do to virgin women.
    “he sacrifice himself” so u saying jebus put nails into himself ? u saying that father, romans and jesus nailed himself to cross? it is a dirty polythiest like u who view jebus in light of sin sacrifices in old testament, and the active agent is the jew who brings the sacrifice and slaughters it for his guilt, unintentional sins ect, so u have to view jebus in that light

    Like

  33. mr.heathcliff

    14. “…Jesus knowingly sacrificing himself for us in other for us to be close to God again… ”

    because as stew said, the only thing close to your gods heart is a pagan human sacrifice. notice what u said human sacrifice brings u close to god LOL

    Like

  34. mr.heathcliff

    “But now, please forgive their sin–but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”
    33
    The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book.
    34”

    So when larries god was reading scripture in the temple, he thought that god likes the idea of punishing an innocent instead of criminal?

    Like

  35. Larry

    @Stew

    This shows how much of a pagan you are by not understanding my point. YOU Larry worship 2 idols, “the Daddy” a plagiarizing, bloodthirsty, ignorant, weak tyrannical old man in the sky and “the Son” an ignorant, contradictory, racist, lying hypocrite. When you worship more than one God you are a pagan. Besides the obvious paganism the “Daddy” engaged in before the Son, it also requires blood sacrifices (whether willingly or not) in order to forgive his followers. Those are facts.

    Lol now you are coming out of your shell again … before you are talking about blood alone as if you have accepted Jesus as God.. One thing I will suggest is go to bible school where you can study bible it will help you to become a good scholar .. you don’t seems to understand things that you are arguing about or maybe you do and just lying support your theory. I don’t know where to start with you…you are all over the place…

    if you had said because of the way YOU Larry worship 2 idols, “the Daddy” a plagiarizing, bloodthirsty, ignorant, weak tyrannical old man in the sky and “the Son” an ignorant, contradictory, racist, lying hypocrite. I would have understood you but when you put Besides the obvious paganism the “Daddy” engaged in before the Son, it also requires blood sacrifices (whether willingly or not) in order to forgive his followers. Those are facts.
    This makes it so difficult to have debate with you, its obvious you are not being honest or you don’t know anything at all.. everything you claimed you have been reading and research is out of window………..
    Those blood sacrifices you are referring to according to bible God gave those commandment to Moses, Jews believe Moses and practice those things…according to your Quran Moses is a real prophet.. so are you saying those stories in the bible about blood sacrifices never happened according to your research ? are you saying Jewish people denied ever sacrificing any animal according to Moses Law? Or are you saying Moses is fake? Or Moses never gave those Law? If God gave the laws why do you call it pagan.. Do you decides what Pagan is or God decides ?… According to the same bible we saw how God told Jews not to mess with idol worshippers …which goes to show they are fully aware of why is not good to practice paganism .. did you not read
    1 Kings 18:26-28
    So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, “O Baal, [f]hear us!” But there was no voice; no one answered. Then they [g]leaped about the altar which they had made.
    27 And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Cry [h]aloud, for he is a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they cried aloud, and cut themselves, as was their custom, with [i]knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them

    Can you not see how idol worshippers offer sacrifice to their own gods too ? is it every time someone offer sacrifice means its for God? NOOOOO..lol… when you offer bull for Baal that’s paganism but when you offer bull to God that’s not paganism .. If Just because you are born in time that Jesus has paid the price now you think blood is a bad thing lol more reason you should be happy Jesus came… anyway I need to know if you think story about Moses is all lies then it will be easy for me to answer you properly .. You are all over the place for me man… please answer then I can continue with my response

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      Yes, there has been a long time argument by scholars that the sacrifices mentioned by the priestly authours were NOT accepted by ppl like jeremiah . A lot of authours in the old testament seem to be taking issue with the reletitive ritualistic stuff invented by priestly authourz.

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      “Moses Law? Or are you saying Moses is fake? Or Moses never gave those Law? If God gave the laws why do you call it pagan.”

      did god give law for human sacrifice? All old testament prophets would have puked at this and most likely STONNED jesus for making himself a sin offering.

      Like

    3. mr.heathcliff

      “Can you not see how idol worshippers offer sacrifice to their own gods too ? ”

      they offered children and infants aswell. Why did they offer children and infants ? If blood has magic in it, it should not be a problem to offer children as sacrfice even today.

      “is it every time someone offer sacrifice means its for God?
      NOOOOO..lol… when you offer bull for Baal that’s paganism but when you offer bull to God that’s not paganism ..”

      So when jews offered a human life to yhwh ,that wasnt paganism? Then when pagans offered three young virgin pre-teen girls to yhwh, this cannot be a pagan act .
      human sacrfice cannot be INHERENTLY bad thing since it has magical powers in it from your pagan perspective.

      ” If Just because you are born in time that Jesus has paid the price ”

      So he does not deny human sacrifice as wrong . jesus believed in human sacrifice for sins, so did the pagans, then u cannot say that human sacrifice is IMPOTENT even today, because INHERENTLY it has pwr in it.

      No, i am TALKING ABOUT THE idea or concept of human sacrifice, it MUST be inherently a good thing and the pagans who were offering the human life of their daughtere and sons were on the right track.

      now, how do u know that a human sacrifice today will not have the potentional to prevent u from sin?
      inherently there cannot be anything wrong with it.

      “now you think blood is a bad thing lol more reason you should be happy Jesus came… ”

      is shedding of a human being for sins a bad or good thing?

      “anyway I need to know if you think story about Moses is all lies ”

      jeremiah thinks the sacrifcial system is bullshit

      Like

    4. mr.heathcliff

      “. If Just because you are born in time that Jesus has paid the price now you think blood is a bad thing lol more reason you should be happy”

      Pigs blood, goats blood, human blood? which blood?

      human sacrifice worshipper, can u explain why u are so over joyed with shedding of human life for sins? u stole mars bar, someone else shed his life for your act of stealing, whats the connection?
      Whats the connection in swearing at your mom unintentionally and then burning an aninal for ur unintentional sins? Explain this to me, i dont get it. So a jewish king rapes his slave woman next door and then offers an animal for his crime of rape, whats the connection???????

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        What i find funny is larry the son of satan is saying “stew , u lucky jeevus came along, otherwise all those aninal sacrifices”

        Qumran sect made an argument that prayer replaced sacrifices and temple sacrifices were corrupt. hosea says the same thing. christianity decided to spread around the world a dead human on cross, why it failed to spread that prayer replaced sacrifice?

        because of WORSHIP of human sacrifice. Idolatry.

        Like

      2. Larry

        I already told you that you are the one that need to respond to my last message… I even told @Rehman that I am waiting to hear why Mohamed is all of a sudden not scared anymore… check again you will see that you didn’t respond to my last message

        Like

      3. 🤦‍♂️ Donkey Larry, you must really be retarded! Did you not read, you idiot? You’re the one who needs to respond to me. Remember, stupid? Lot, Abraham, incest, etc? 🤣🤣 You’re a joke, you infanticide-supporting donkey.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Larry

        Are you talking about the one you sent on 11th september?

        RESPONSE: What an absolute moron! We are not talking Ravi Zacharias, the late Christian pervert, here. We are talking about a Jewish scholar, RASHI. This scholar explained that the voweling of the Hebrew text indicates that Lot KNEW what was going on after the first daughter had slept with him. Despite this, he STILL got drunk the next night. Ergo, he was GUILTY of committing incest because he didn’t try to stop the second daughter from doing the same thing. It appears that donkey Larry has no response to this, so he now moves the goalpost and asks where it says that God told Lot to do this.

        please let me know if this is the one you are talking about

        Like

      5. mr.heathcliff

        Dirty larry,

        I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is f……. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman


        Why the bible had to write that king david was not having intercourse with night nurse who was keeping him warm in his bed?

        Like

    5. mr.heathcliff

      There is a lot to unpack here since u keep brining jeeebus into this.

      1. where is your evidence that the torah authours did not expect DIFFICULT sacrifices from their followers?

      2.why would god reveal a holy sacrificial system only to have it replace by an easy pagan human sacrifice which u can do mind masturbation with for your sins?

      3. Plus, how does jesus’ self offering fix the problem of sins? a christian could do a number of sins in thw future , as long as he has blood of jesus to swim in, he can always continue to do the sins.

      4. Whereas a animal sacrifice does not ATONE for future sins, u have to bring the sacrifice and watch it die, which would be a reason to bring out sorrow and grief from within….

      5. So larry,, u must sin , otherwise what was the point of jesue dying for your sins in NEXT TWO hours lol

      Like

    6. mr.heathcliff

      Hey larry

      “@stew who we are in spiritual realm is the same as physical. We exist in Spiritual and physical realm”

      So if u die in spiritual real and live in physical realm how r u same person? say u are getting raped in jungle and your spirit person is watching this, how r u same person?

      “but the difference is we don’t posses the same attributes but we are still the same person”

      larry(person) is donkey (animal) and human (non-animal) at the same time.

      Your donkiness dont mix with ur humaness, ur donki mind dont mix with your human mind. you are two different beings

      “….its like your body saying to your soul how can we be the same”

      if a soul is conscious that it is not a body and has no feelings of a body,how is it one thing?

      If you have a donkey mind and a human mind, how can u be one being or one person?

      ,”you cant be me I cant be you … it will not make sense because they are both the same”

      How?

      ” its just that they exist in different realms with different attributes.”

      A soul existing IN BOX a
      And body existing in box B

      How are they the same? Since when can a soul be a body and not a body @ the same time

      Plus, God is able to destroys all these realms,can god destroy himself?

      u being a human on a plane and a raped donkey in a zoo mean your person is existing as

      1. Raped donkey
      2. human on a plane

      2 beings.

      Like

    7. mr.heathcliff

      hey larry

      larry( person) fully DONKEY and fully human

      So larry the donkey dies and brays like a donkey . Cover the words “larry ” and “donkey”

      fully human REMAINS.

      so where did larry go?

      Like

    8. mr.heathcliff

      hey larry,since u believe yhwh can actualise a donkey larry and a human larry and they are the same person with TWO DIFFERENT CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCES

      a donkeys CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE AS DONKEY IS NOT HUMAN CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE OF HUMAN

      then contradictions are true.

      contradictions really exist in nature.

      and since contradiction is from mind of yhwh, then it logically follows yhwh is a contradiction since he also exist as two CONTRADICTORY things

      Like

  36. mr.heathcliff

    “@stew who we are in spiritual realm is the same as physical. We exist in Spiritual and physical realm”

    So if u die in spiritual real and live in physical realm how r u same person? say u are getting raped in jungle and your spirit person is watching this, how r u same person?

    “but the difference is we don’t posses the same attributes but we are still the same person”

    larry(person) is donkey (animal) and human (non-animal) at the same time.

    Your donkiness dont mix with ur humaness, ur donki mind dont mix with your human mind. you are two different beings

    “….its like your body saying to your soul how can we be the same”

    if a soul is conscious that it is not a body and has no feelings of a body,how is it one thing?

    If you have a donkey mind and a human mind, how can u be one being or one person?

    ,”you cant be me I cant be you … it will not make sense because they are both the same”

    How?

    ” its just that they exist in different realms with different attributes.”

    A soul existing IN BOX a
    And body existing in box B

    How are they the same? Since when can a soul be a body and not a body @ the same time

    Plus, God is able to destroys all these realms,can god destroy himself?

    u being a human on a plane and a raped donkey in a zoo mean your person is existing as

    1. Raped donkey
    2. human on a plane

    2 beings.

    Like

  37. Larry

    @ QB

    I have been looking for the message you are talking about for almost 20min now cant seems to find it.. Pls could you copy part of it and send it to me then I can use that to search for the whole message on the forum

    Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “You are always missing the point”

        so tell me what point is missed when i asked you if you exist as fully donkey and fully human

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        Larry man, help me out, i dont understand your shitty “points,”
        Explain to me how x can be god and not god @ the same time.

        you said the person of trinity emptied himself

        Thats like square emptied itself of its squareness

        Here is easy mathematical formulation

        Person = fully divine and fully human

        You said:

        Location A contains fully divine
        Location b contains fully human

        your bs about location is obfuscation.

        yhwh like creation exists as different versions of himself

        yhwh can BRING into existence versions of himself which did not exist

        if yhwh in location A is not identical to yhwh in location b, then yhwh transformed LIKE humans do.

        so help me out larry, did yhwh create himself?

        Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “Larry
      I saw your response.. Just waiting for @Stew to reply me first”

      quote:

      quote:

      What were jews supposed to do? Put yourself in their shoes!
      If their animals cannot save them, and the all loving god came to the earth to become the perfect sacrifice for them instead of their animals, then why is it so wrong to sacrifce that god who came to be sacrificed if this is the only way for them to be saved?

      ////

      yes larry, what were those poor jews supposed to do? why didnt jesus the hypocrite say “slap me please, i am the offering which replaces all offerings” ?

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      larry help me out man,

      Are there powerful and weak versions of your god? Can the weak versions ever become powerful again? do the weak versions co-exist with powerful versions? are there versions of the father? Do the weak versions talk to the powerful versions? Can the powerful versions destroy the weak versions? larry i dont understand your points, help me out

      Like

    3. mr.heathcliff

      larry man, help me out here.

      how can an OMNI being have CONTRADICTORY consciousnesses.

      “i am God almighty , i have power over everything”

      ” i am god almighty, the lord is my sheppard i am going to get brutally stonned by the pharisees, i better run away”

      help me out here larrry, i don’t understand this crap.

      did they teach you the answers in bible school?

      “i am god almighty….oh look that burger looks tasted”

      so god almighty eat burger and suffered from maleria for one week

      how god have POWER over everrything when things OVER POWERED him physically and metaphysically (consciousness) ?

      Like

  38. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I just developped a new intention which is to please God Almighty the Lord of the Worlds. How come I realized this? I read on a Islamic discord server that if I displease God Almighty then I will have a bad day, but if I please God Almighty then I will have a good day. The only problem I have is that I have stupid and weird addictions which makes me a major sinner, and I feel frustrated because I cannot please God Almighty!

    My current goals is now to please God Almighty and to reach Paradise without any Judgement and Punishment.

    And I also understood that what God Almighty decrees is for our benefit since God Almighty is The Absolute Independent.

    My questions are:

    1. Have I understood correctly about why I must please God Almighty?
    2. Can I know a list of benefits for improving my relationship with God Almighty? Can I also have proofs from Quran and Sunnah about improving my relationship with God Almighty?
    3. How can I improve my relationship with God Almighty?
    4. What deeds are makes my Lord very pleased with me?

    Jazak Allah Khair

    Like

  39. Vaqas Rehman

    Does anyone know what current scholarship and credible academia says on how far back we can trace the books of the Hebrew bible? Is the oldest we have the dead sea scrolls? I tried looking it up myself but I keep getting apologetic articles for Judaism and Christianity.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. If you’re talking about manuscripts, then the Dead Sea scrolls are the earliest surviving ones. As for the actual dates for the books, they vary. For example, most critical scholars believe the book of Joshua was written in the 5th century BCE. Many of the books are part of what scholars call the “Deuteronomistic history”, which also was written centuries after Moses.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        @QB

        I see, thank you. Any books or articles you’d recommend when you have the time? The main reason I bring this up is the recent “why isn’t Mecca mentioned in the OT” debate I find very odd. Since at least as far as I understood, the tradition itself can’t really be traced back to the relevant past with certainty to begin with . Making it kinda a moot point.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. mr.heathcliff

        funny isnt it that crosstians say that jewish laws in ot apply to the jews, but then jewish laws are being applied to non-jews in ot? Lol

        Like

      3. mr.heathcliff

        yhwh like the pagan canaanite dieties was nationalistic diety which was not concerned about people outside the land of israel.

        yhwh COMMANDS THE masacre of women and children

        now think about this, what if pharoah was taking out the policies of his great great granfather in massacring the jews ? he was born in a system which did see massacring as wrong.

        Isnt this what these kuffar say , “everyone was buthering one another back then”

        1. yhwh has proved to be genocidal maniac in torah

        2. yhwh is not concerned with nations outside of israel

        3 yhwh apply his terrorism on non-jews

        What then is the argument that non-jews dont have a right to massacre yhwhs “first begotten” ?

        Like

    1. Larry

      Lol if you read my first messages on this forum…I told everyone I am not one of the people that argues Daniel contradict Mark.. all I am about is Jesus is the way not Mohamed or Quran.. You need to be smart enough not to get involved in everything that is out there or you will be easily distracted.. Is Richard Carrier a Muslim or Christian? does he believe in God? what is Taoism? I don’t care how many books he read.. You still don’t get it.. with all the books he read why is He not a Muslim? You need to sit down and think about how many Muslim Scholars that have read so many Christian books, history, bible and still they are Muslim they didn’t see reason to convert to Christianity .. I am talking about wise people and knowledgeable people not average joe lol same as Christian scholars … This is beyond how smart or how many books you read.. if you don’t understand that by now well I don’t know what to say ..

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        why you making excuses like a coward ? the comment section is open, give us something to laugh about. go and convince richard carrier about daniel. go to bible school, then go to carrier.

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        lol, you talk about distraction then you ask irrelavant questions . why ?

        “Daniel contradict Mark.. all I am about is Jesus is the way not Mohamed or Quran..”

        jesus is clearly not the way, he promoted a FORGERY called daniel , how truth can promote forgery?

        Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        the bible is clearly a manual for racism.
        are we to believe that all of the amalekite children would turn out to be monsters ? if yes, then did not pharoah have a justification for killing off jews because of future threat and considering the fact that INHERENTLY killing infant cannot be moral wrong from torah perspective?

        quote :

        Mr. Miller would have us believe that the Amorites were so wicked that Yahweh had no choice but to exterminate them and give their land to the Israelites, but passages like those I have just quoted show that the Israelites themselves became just as and even more wicked than the Amorites whom Yahweh had driven out of Canaan. I will ask again why the omniscient, omnipotent Yahweh didn’t know that his chosen ones would turn out this way.

        quote:

        In a list of offenses of the Israelites against Yahweh, Psalm 106:37 says that they “sacrificed their sons and daughters to demons.”

        In Jeremiah 19:3-5, the prophet condemned the people again for having “built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal.”

        Forsaken commands of yhwh, worshipped idols…
        In a list of offenses of the northern kingdom, which ostensibly was the reason why Yahweh allowed them to be taken into Assyrian captivity, the writer said that they were “as stiff-necked as their fathers,” that they had “followed worthless idols,” that they had forsaken “all the commands of Yahweh,” that they had “bowed down to all the starry hosts and Baal,” that they had “sacrificed their sons and daughters in the fire,” and that they had “practiced divination and sorcery”–the very offenses that were forbidden in the second “proof text” that Mr. Miller quoted above. (2 Kings 17:9-18).
        The crimes of israeel.
        1 Sam. 28:7-19). (2 Kings 23:10). Psalm 106:37
        (2 Kings 16:2-3). Jer. 7:30-31).
        Jeremiah 19:3-5, Ezek. 16:19-202 Kings 11:5-8). 1 Kings 3:12)
        Your izraelite FATHERS did wicked /evil crimes!
        Long-standing practices of EVIL!
        Ezekiel, in fact, accused the Israelites of having practiced child sacrifices long enough to refer to those who had done it earlier as “your fathers.”
        Ezekiel 20:30 “Therefore say to the house of Israel: ‘This is what the Sovereign Yahweh says: Will you defile yourselves the way your fathers did and lust after their vile images? 31 When you offer your gifts–the sacrifice of your sons in the fire–you continue to defile yourselves with all your idols to this day. Am I to let you inquire of me, O house of Israel? As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Yahweh, I will not let you inquire of me.
        In saying that the Israelites of his time continued to defile themselves to this day, “the way [their] fathers did,” when they sacrificed their sons in the fire, Ezekiel was implying that this had been a long-standing practice among them, yet Yahweh presumably chose a people like this to exterminate the people who been previously living in Canaan. Where is the morality or logic in this?
        There are just too many examples of Israelite idolatry and religious corruption to notice them all, but these are sufficient to show that the “chosen ones” of Yahweh became just as religiously corrupt as the Amorites and other Canaanite nations whom Yahweh had ordered the Israelites to massacre so that they could have their land. I have to ask again why an omniscient, omnipotent deity would have ordered the slaughter of the Canaanite nations so that a bunch of “stiff-necked, rebellious” Israelites could have their land. Didn’t the omniscient one know that the “wickedness” of the Israelites would equal and sometimes exceed that of the Amorites?

        /////

        wouldnt this be a justification for the hebrews to turn the SWORD on thier own children after they finnished off amalekite children?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Larry

        QB RESPONSE: What an absolute moron! We are not talking Ravi Zacharias, the late Christian pervert, here. We are talking about a Jewish scholar, RASHI. This scholar explained that the voweling of the Hebrew text indicates that Lot KNEW what was going on after the first daughter had slept with him. Despite this, he STILL got drunk the next night. Ergo, he was GUILTY of committing incest because he didn’t try to stop the second daughter from doing the same thing. It appears that donkey Larry has no response to this, so he now moves the goalpost and asks where it says that God told Lot to do this.

        Funny guy.. Ravi or Rashi who cares… so because I say Ravi instead of Rashi that means what I said is not true? Anyway like I said before Rashi or no Rashi we will go with your theory but still you didn’t get the point because your heart if full of hatred towards Christianity and Christians .. with everything you said about Rashi this or Irenaeus that , there is no where you mention Rashi or Irenaeus said God told Lot to do this and that all you said is Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED…which is very different from something that is written in the bible…His opinion is incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED not that it was written in the bible, Allah Telling Mohamed when Zaynab divorce you will marry her is not opinion it is written in Quran … for the last time I hope you understand now….. with your Rashi and Irenaeus show me where bible says God told Lot or his daughters what to do not what Rashi and Irenaeus said because I don’t follow them I follow what God says in Bible… The funny thing is this as a Christian we don’t say we take any other book apart from bible but Muslims do and even though you agreed on using hadith to interpret Quran you still say some Hadith are not accepted but you are trying to force what Rashi and Irenaeus said on me as if I told you I follow their books..
        Anyway to make is simple for you there is difference in what Rashi and Irenaeus says and what God say…there is difference in what Rashi and Irenaeus think or believe and what God believe … I am not coming to you about what a person say or a book….I am quoting Quran and showing you exactly what Allah said, I am not assuming or interpreting … If you can show me where God say to Lot or his Daughters to do what you levelled against them then I will not reply to your response regarding this anymore…. When God told Lot and his family to run away from Sodom God didn’t command them to go anywhere , God is not responsible for our choices in life funny guy…God telling Lot to run away from a city that is about to be destroy is not a Sin and no way God is responsible for his choice of going to the cave if he choose to go back to Abraham I don’t think you will be blaming God now in other hand according to Quran Allah told Mohamed what to do which if he agree he will commit sin.

        QB Speaking of your god telling people to do bad things, we already saw the example of Hosea being told to commit adultery. Funny how the donkey stopped talking about that
        QB RESPONSE: LOL! Can anyone see the irony here? Donkey Larry admits that Lot and his daughters did something wrong when they committed INCEST (DUH!) but now, with Abraham and Sarah, he wonders if what they did (INCEST) was a sin! So wait a minute, donkey. Are you saying that sleeping with your daughters was a sin but sleeping with your half-sister wasn’t??? Of course, we can see why the donkey is doing this. It’s because he knows his god was fine with incest between half-siblings, so the donkey has to ty to show that Abraham and Sarah were not being sinful, but Lot and his daughters were.
        QB You are a disgusting donkey! This is what Christianity does to the brain. It causes it to rot and the person affected is incapable of using logic and reason.

        Lol Very funny Guy… I told you why I don’t reply mr.heathcliff because he says things he doesn’t know anything about and doesn’t want to learn , It seems you are going to join that category too…I don’t have anything against anyone and I am not trying to be rude its just that there is no point in wasting time in talking about things that doesn’t make sense … @ Rehman is so different from most of you and @Stew is joining your category bit by bit too… You read bible for the purpose of arguing you are not reading to understand it… Like I said before you don’t have to accept what it says but at least understand it… your English is better than mine.. I don’t know how good your Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic is but you can read in English why is it difficult for you to understand? I never admits that Lot did anything wrong that a lie from the pit of hell lol… I said Lot didn’t do anything wrong that it was his daughters sin by drugging him Lol you can lie… ok to show everyone here that you are liar … why did you bring up Rashi and Irenaeus? Is it not to prove that Lot knew what he was doing if I admit that he did it why will you need to bring them up? I never admit anything … All I said is Let us go with your theory to prove that you are more wrong… but in case you are not lying and genuinely think I admit then I take it back, you are not a liar but I didn’t admit Lot did anything wrong you are the one trying to force me to admit it.
        Regarding Abraham I really thought you are more advanced that’s why sometimes I just say things like With Abraham and Sarah you still didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time.. so let me explain more for you since you didn’t get it… You said you have read bible so I assumed you have read about Abraham story and Understand it… clearly bible state Abraham’s Father is Idolatrous and Abraham marry Sarah before He began God’s work and Also it wasn’t until Abraham died the law that you talked about INCEST was giving to Moses so I don’t understand why someone of your level will ask that kind of a question… there are so many things in the bible that you can see how we cant say Abraham commit any sin..
        Regarding Hosea again for someone of your level I don’t expect that you will continue to say Hosea commit adultery after you made a mistake by saying God told Hosea to marry someone that is married and I told you NO God was telling him to love his wife again in Hosea 3:1 ..HOW CAN A HUSBANB COMMIT ADULTERY WITH HIS WIFE? Definition of adultery noun from the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary — sex between a married person and someone who is not their husband or wife… The time I am using to write all this we can use it to talk about something else,if you can just be an honest and not have hatred in your heart when you are having conversation we can all learn from each other..

        Like

      3. Larry

        QB RESPONSE: LOL!! Donkey Larry really thinks that all of us are new to this! WRONG! You see, donkey, unlike you, we have been researching your Bibull for a long time, and we have heard all the stupid excuses donkey Christians use to explain their evil Bible stories.
        QB It’s a common excuse for Crosstians to justify the killing of Amalekite babies by appealing to the historic rivalry between the Amalekites and the Israelites. But what the donkey is too STUPID and BRAINWASHED to realize (something Google searches won’t tell you) is that even if Amalek was an enemy of Israel, that DOES NOT justify killing INNOCENT BABIES! A normal person would know this, but because of the evil influence of Christianity and the Bible, donkey Larry and other Crosstians think that just because one group is an enemy of another group, it is somehow permissible for the latter to wipe out the former, even to the point of committing genocide and killing innocent children. What did the children have to do with the rivalry between Amalek and Israel? NOTHING!
        QB Look at this moron! Are children and infants not innocent? Is the donkey so retarded that he doesn’t see the difference between killing armed combatants and innocent children?

        Lol funny guy Clearly You QB don’t know nada about bible as have shown above but I will do it again … Quran 4:76 Quran 9:5 told you to fight Idol worshipers you don’t think they are innocent what is their crime they don’t worship what you worship but your Allah say fight them… anyway let us go to bible Mr QB representative of Amalekite … 1 Samuel 15:33 But Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless, so shall your mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hacked Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.. Now BQ the Lawyer I need a proof from you that the Amalekite didn’t kill innocent children and also Why is a crime for God to give command to kill people He considered enemy ? Did you not read what happened in Egypt when God sent Moses to Pharaoh ? if you don’t believe what the bible says, what about what Quran 7:133 So We sent against them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood – a succession of clear signs. But they were arrogant and became a guilty folk…. Are you saying Allah only punished the Adult in Quran 7:133 and not the innocent children … I really don’t need to waste time with something like this because you know better but you just want to manipulate things as always ..so like I said to make it simple show me where it says Amalekite didn’t kill innocent children.

        QB RESPONSE: And I refuted you donkey. To “covet” is to desire a woman. Muhammad (pbuh) simply thought that once Zayd divorced Zaynab, he could marry her. That’s it! That’s all he thought! How is that a sin? The answer is that it is NOT. As I explained, Muhammad (pbuh) knew this would happen. If he had NOT known this, and he thought that he could marry Zaynab if only Zayd would divorce her, then you could make the argument that Muhammad (pbuh) was “coveting” her. But that’s not what happened. The Prophet was told by divine revelation that the marriage was going to end. If anything, it actually further proves that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet. The revelation he had received did come true.

        Funny guy you said if Mohamed thought that he could marry Zaynab if only Zayd would divorce her, then you could make the argument that Muhammad was “coveting…. So you are just saying things all this while and you don’t understand what you are talking about lol again reason why you should learn from @ Rehman … He joined us in the middle of this conversation and he understood everything… WHAT I SAID IS MOHAMED IS A LIAR THERE IS NO WAY GOD CAN TELL HIM TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL CAUSE HIM TO SIN, SO MOHAMED IS LYIN ABOUT GOD TELLING HIM TO DO THINGS AND ONE OF THE EXAMPLES IS Quran 33:37… So all this while I was saying to you that God cant do what Quran 33:37 says Mohamed must have lied that is not from God… I am showing you more evidence why Mohamed cant be a true prophet … I don’t believe his revelations are from God… so again if God tell Mohamed that he will marry Zaynab after she divorce … That will mean for Mohamed to obey He will desire to marry Zaynab while she was still married … But you guys are saying He didn’t desire to marry her while she was married because He was scared… that means while she was married in his heart he wasn’t going to obey God because he was scared of people but after She is divorced he is now ready to obey God and desire to marry her but I show you how that is not possible because Mohamed desire to marry her before Quran 33:37 was revealed so if truly he was scared of what people will say then he would have waited for the Quran to be reveal then make it knows to people , But he wasn’t scared of what people will say and still go for Zaynab because now she is divorced . so for your information Quran is fake and Mohamed is fake too that is what I am saying if you don’t get it… Quran 33:37 is one of the evidence that Mohamed is a liar hope you get it now

        Just in case you want to talk about Quran 33:37 all you need to do is tell me why Mohamed claimed he was sacred at first and not scared again before Quran 33:37 is revealed then maybe I can understand

        I pray that you stop wasting time and focus on the main Issue from now on..

        Like

      4. Here we go again! Donkey Larry shows how clueless he really is.

        DONKEY: Funny guy.. Ravi or Rashi who cares… so because I say Ravi instead of Rashi that means what I said is not true

        RESPONSE: 🤣🤣 It matters donkey, because it shows your ignorance. You were shown Rashi’s commentary on multiple occasions and because you have no idea how to respond, you ignored it. Are you an expert on Hebrew, donkey? Of course not.

        DONKEY: there is no where you mention Rashi or Irenaeus said God told Lot to do this and that all you said is Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED…which is very different from something that is written in the bible…

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Everyone has noticed how you have tried to shift your argument. Originally, you claimed that Lot was UNAWARE of what was going on. When that was disproven, you changed your argument to “well, God didn’t tell him to do that”.

        What Irenaeus, who was a church father and far more knowledgeable about the Bible that a donkey like you, concluded was based on the logical flow of the text. Your god set up the whole thing to leave Lot and his daughters in a state of confusion. So, it is a natural conclusion to make. The funny thing is that we know that even if the Bible said it explicitly, you would simply change your argument to “since God commanded it, then it’s not a sin”. You see, donkey. No matter what proof you are shown, you will keep moving the goalpost because the evil religion of Christianity has destroyed your ability to think objectively.

        DONKEY: for the last time I hope you understand now….. with your Rashi and Irenaeus show me where bible says God told Lot or his daughters what to do not what Rashi and Irenaeus said because I don’t follow them I follow what God says in Bible…

        RESPONSE: It doesn’t matter if you don’t follow them, donkey. Rashi proved from the Hebrew text that Lot knew what was going on. Do you admit this? Yes or no?

        The funny thing is that your dishonesty and inconsistency are exposed with regard to Abraham and Sarah. In this case, you are forced to admit that your god was fine with the marriage. Thus, you claim that it was a NOT a sin for half-siblings marry and commit INCEST, because when your god says something, then it is automatically not a sin. So, the reality is that you will never admit that your god commanded Lot to commit incest, even if the Bible said he did. You would simply claim that if your god commands something, it is not a sin.

        Let me show you another example of your god allowing people to commit immoral deeds. In Deuteronomy 21:10-14, your god allowed forcefully taking a beautiful woman, forcing her to marry, and then releasing her without any care for her well-being if she failed to please her captor:

        “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, 12 and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. 13 And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants. But you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave, since you have humiliated her.”

        So, in this passage, your god allowed a few sinful acts:

        1. Forced marriage
        2. Rape
        3. Abandonment of one’s wife

        Notice that there is nothing said about the woman’s choice or her well-being after she is released. Where could she go? Her family was killed and she is basically alone in a foreign land. What kind of god would allow this? Now, I know. You will claim there was no sin here because you are a deranged donkey.

        Contrary to your immoral god, Allah (swt) set strict rules for taking wives and concubines. You couldn’t just use her for your pleasure and then send her away without any care for her well-being.

        DONKEY: The funny thing is this as a Christian we don’t say we take any other book apart from bible but Muslims do and even though you agreed on using hadith to interpret Quran you still say some Hadith are not accepted but you are trying to force what Rashi and Irenaeus said on me as if I told you I follow their books..

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Oh donkey, have some dignity. Why do you insist on proving that you were ignorant about Islam when you were a “Muslim” and just as ignorant now?

        The ahadith are part of Islam. Always have been. We don’t just reject some ahadith willy-nilly. There is a process to it, unlike your stupid Bibull, which has books that were basically voted in to the canon. 😂

        Coming back to Rashi, what are you not understanding you idiot? Rashi was explaining what the HEBREW TEXT OF YOUR BIBLE says! Do you know Hebrew? So, its your BIBLE that says that Lot knew what he was doing. So your original claim that he was “unaware” was a lie.

        DONKEY: If you can show me where God say to Lot or his Daughters to do what you levelled against them then I will not reply to your response regarding this anymore…. When God told Lot and his family to run away from Sodom God didn’t command them to go anywhere , God is not responsible for our choices in life funny guy…God telling Lot to run away from a city that is about to be destroy is not a Sin and no way God is responsible for his choice of going to the cave if he choose to go back to Abraham I don’t think you will be blaming God now in other hand according to Quran Allah told Mohamed what to do which if he agree he will commit sin.

        RESPONSE: 😂🤣 Donkey, do you know what a strawman argument is? Go ahead and Google it as you Google everything else.
        I didn’t say your god was responsible for Lot’s decisions. I said your god left Lot in a state of confusion and fear, which led to his daughters thinking they were the only people left on earth. So your god set the scene for the incest, which is why Irenaeus said it was by “divine arrangement”.

        DONKEY: Lol Very funny Guy… I told you why I don’t reply mr.heathcliff because he says things he doesn’t know anything about and doesn’t want to learn , It seems you are going to join that category too…

        RESPONSE: 😂😂🤣 Don’t even think about running away, donkey. Remember, you’re on my blog. If you decide to ignore my comments, you will be banned. I know your feelings have been hurt, and I am happy to keep hurting your feelings. Don’t whine. When you come here and lie and spread propaganda for your evil religion, you can expect to be treated like a donkey.

        DONKEY: I don’t know how good your Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic is but you can read in English why is it difficult for you to understand? I never admits that Lot did anything wrong that a lie from the pit of hell lol… I said Lot didn’t do anything wrong that it was his daughters sin by drugging him Lol you can lie…

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Why do you keep going in circles, donkey? This brings us back to what Rashi said. The HEBREW text in your stupid Bible INDICATES that Lot KNEW what was happening. So if he knew, then he was responsible for the sin, right? If you think Lot didn’t do anything wrong by knowingly getting drunk and sleeping with his younger daughter, then you are a sick, deranged donkey who needs psychiatric evaluation.

        It was after I kept pounding you with Rashi’s explanation that you suddenly changed your argument and asked where the Bible says that God told Lot to have sex with his daughters. This was not your original argument. Your original argument was that Lot did not know what he was doing. Think about it, donkey. If Lot did not know what he was doing, then it is obvious that God would not have told him to do it. But the problem is that the Biblical text (in the Hebrew) indicates that Lot KNEW what he was doing AFTER the elder daughter had slept with him. He KNEW what was happening and yet he STILL let the younger daughter do the same thing. Ergo, he was a pervert who desired his daughter. Get it now, donkey? Why are you lying? You just exposed yourself! 😂

        DONKEY: why did you bring up Rashi and Irenaeus? Is it not to prove that Lot knew what he was doing if I admit that he did it why will you need to bring them up? I never admit anything … All I said is Let us go with your theory to prove that you are more wrong… but in case you are not lying and genuinely think I admit then I take it back, you are not a liar but I didn’t admit Lot did anything wrong you are the one trying to force me to admit it.

        RESPONSE: If you don’t admit it, then you are a liar, donkey because it is the BIBLICAL TEXT that says he knew what he was doing! Why are you so stupid, lol? Once again, in case your feeble mind forgot what Rashi stated (I will put the important parts in CAPS):

        ““HEB. וּבְקוּמָהּ, MENTIONED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ELDER, IS DOTTED (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), TO DENOTE THAT WHEN SHE AROSE, HE DID KNOW, but nevertheless HE WAS NOT CAREFUL NOT TO DRINK ON THE SECOND NIGHT (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]

        And let me make it even worse for you. Here are some more CHRISTIAN scholars who agree with Rashi’s observation. The commentator John Gill states:

        “There is an extraordinary prick on the Vau in Kumah, rendered “she arose”, which the Jews say (u) is to show that he knew her not when she lay down, but WHEN SHE AROSE HE KNEW HER; and indeed it may be rendered, but in her rising up.”

        In other words, Gill states that Genesis 19:33 should be rendered as:

        “He did not know when she lay down BUT IN HER RISING UP.”

        The Pulpit Commentary flat-out states that the common rendering that Lot was unaware is “incorrect”. It states:

        “…the explanations that Lot was a mere unconscious instrument in this disgraceful transaction (Kalisch), that he was-entirely ignorant of all that had taken place (Chrysostom, Cajetan), that he was struck on account of his intemperance with a spirit of stupor (Calvin), are NOT WARRANTED BY THE TEXT” (https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/19-33.htm).

        DONKEY: Regarding Abraham I really thought you are more advanced that’s why sometimes I just say things like With Abraham and Sarah you still didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time..

        RESPONSE: This donkey just doesn’t get it! Let me simply repeat what I wrote the last time. Donkey Larry admits that Lot and his daughters did something wrong when they committed INCEST (DUH!) but now, with Abraham and Sarah, he wonders if what they did (INCEST) was a sin!

        😂 So wait a minute, donkey. Are you saying that sleeping with your daughters was a sin but sleeping with your half-sister wasn’t??? Of course, we can see why the donkey is doing this. It’s because he knows his god was fine with incest between half-siblings, so the donkey has to try to show that Abraham and Sarah were not being sinful, but Lot and his daughters were.

        Do we really need to explain to donkey Larry that INCEST was a sin? Apparently, he thinks that it was NOT a sin, according to the Bible. Well, donkey, if that is the case, then what else can we say other than that your Bibull is a disgusting book? 🤣🤣🤣

        Is that what you are saying, donkey? Are you saying that INCEST was NOT a sin in the time of Abraham? MAKE SURE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.

        DONKEY: clearly bible state Abraham’s Father is Idolatrous and Abraham marry Sarah before He began God’s work and Also it wasn’t until Abraham died the law that you talked about INCEST was giving to Moses so I don’t understand why someone of your level will ask that kind of a question… there are so many things in the bible that you can see how we cant say Abraham commit any sin..

        RESPONSE: So, once again, to clarify: You, donkey Larry, are saying that INCEST was NOT a sin in the eyes of your god in the time of Abraham and was ONLY made a sin once the law of Moses was revealed later. Is this correct, donkey Larry? 🤢

        Oh by the way, there is another incestuous relationship in the Bible. This one involves Moses’ father Amram marrying his AUNT (Exodus 6:20). 🤦‍♂️

        DONKEY: Regarding Hosea again for someone of your level I don’t expect that you will continue to say Hosea commit adultery after you made a mistake by saying God told Hosea to marry someone that is married and I told you NO God was telling him to love his wife again in Hosea 3:1 ..HOW CAN A HUSBANB COMMIT ADULTERY WITH HIS WIFE?

        RESPONSE: LOL, this donkey is retarded! 🤣 As I pointed out before, there is NO INDICATION in the text that his wife Gomer is the “woman” referred to in Hosea 3:1. While there is disagreement among the Jewish and Christian scholars because of the ambiguity of the text, there is no reason to think that the woman is supposed to be Gomer. There is no indication that she has reverted to her old ways of prostitution. She is not mentioned by name again after chapter 1.

        So let’s review. Donkey’s god did the following immoral things:
        1. Set-up Lot’s incestuous relationship with his daughters
        2. Allowed Abraham to marry his half-sister
        3. Told Hosea to marry an adulteress
        4. Ordered the Israelites to kill children and babies
        5. Let David commit adultery, kill his son as the punishment (instead of having David stoned to death) AND let David STAY in his illegal marriage with Bathsheba.

        What kind of god is this?

        DONKEY: Lol funny guy Clearly You QB don’t know nada about bible as have shown above but I will do it again … Quran 4:76 Quran 9:5 told you to fight Idol worshipers you don’t think they are innocent what is their crime they don’t worship what you worship but your Allah say fight them… anyway let us go to bible Mr QB representative of Amalekite … 1 Samuel 15:33 But Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless, so shall your mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hacked Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.. Now BQ the Lawyer I need a proof from you that the Amalekite didn’t kill innocent children and also Why is a crime for God to give command to kill people He considered enemy ? Did you not read what happened in Egypt when God sent Moses to Pharaoh ? if you don’t believe what the bible says, what about what Quran 7:133 So We sent against them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood – a succession of clear signs. But they were arrogant and became a guilty folk…. Are you saying Allah only punished the Adult in Quran 7:133 and not the innocent children … I really don’t need to waste time with something like this because you know better but you just want to manipulate things as always ..so like I said to make it simple show me where it says Amalekite didn’t kill innocent children.

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Look at the stupidity of this moron! He begins by sayings “you don’t know nada about Bible”, but then starts talking about the Quran! 😂

        Remind me again, donkey. Didn’t you say in our Zoom talk that you haven’t even read your silly Bibull? I asked you a question about the NT, and you didn’t know how to answer.

        Now, as an alleged “ex-Muslim”, donkey should know that the Quran in 4:76 and 9:5 is talking about fighting the Arab idolaters, who had attacked Muslims and persecuted them. Surah 2:190 states:

        “Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits.1 Allah does not like transgressors.”
        So clearly, donkey Larry is the biggest moron in the world, and if he was even a Muslim before, he was not a very knowledgeable one.

        Furthermore, in war, Islam CLEARLY prohibits killing NON-COMBATANTS:

        “Narrated Ibn `Umar: During some of the Ghazawat of Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) a woman was found killed, so Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) forbade the killing of women and children.” (Bukhari)

        Donkey Larry is such a disgusting animal that he can’t seem to admit that KILLING BABIES is WRONG, not fighting against one’s enemies in general.

        And by the way, no one said the Amalekites may not have killed innocent children. But whether they did or didn’t is IRRELEVANT. Are you telling me that your god ordered the killing of OTHER INNOCENT CHILDREN simply because the Amalekites did it? Is your god no better than some pagan Amalekites, that to avenge the killing of innocent children, he had other innocent children killed? This is what the evil Bibull does to people. It turns them into apologists for INFANTICIDE. This is proof of how evil you pagans really are.

        DONKEY: Funny guy you said if Mohamed thought that he could marry Zaynab if only Zayd would divorce her, then you could make the argument that Muhammad was “coveting…. So you are just saying things all this while and you don’t understand what you are talking about lol again reason why you should learn from @ Rehman … He joined us in the middle of this conversation and he understood everything… WHAT I SAID IS MOHAMED IS A LIAR THERE IS NO WAY GOD CAN TELL HIM TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL CAUSE HIM TO SIN, SO MOHAMED IS LYIN ABOUT GOD TELLING HIM TO DO THINGS AND ONE OF THE EXAMPLES IS Quran 33:37…

        RESPONSE: 🤣🤣 Donkey is running out of arguments. As has been proven, there was no “sin” in any of this. Furthermore, the whole incident shows that Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet. He knew that Zayd and Zaynab would divorce, and it happened. Meanwhile, the Biblical prophets couldn’t 6:00 at 5:30. 😂

        As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad (pbuh) did not know what would happen to Zayd and Zaynab’s marriage, but as we have seen, he did. And even then, the ONLY thing he thought about was when the divorce occurs, he will marry Zaynab. That’s it! No sin! No coveting!

        DONKEY: so again if God tell Mohamed that he will marry Zaynab after she divorce … That will mean for Mohamed to obey He will desire to marry Zaynab while she was still married …

        RESPONSE: Donkey, learn to write better. Your incoherent rants are painful to read. 😂

        This was all explained. Muhammad (pbuh) knew that they would divorce. He also knew they were having marriage difficulties. Knowing that, he thought that he could marry Zaynab if they did divorce. His prediction came true. He did not think of anything else, only that he would marry Zaynab. So no sin. Meanwhile, your pagan god allowed his prophets to literally commit sin and get away with it.

        DONKEY: But you guys are saying He didn’t desire to marry her while she was married because He was scared… that means while she was married in his heart he wasn’t going to obey God because he was scared of people but after She is divorced he is now ready to obey God and desire to marry her but I show you how that is not possible because Mohamed desire to marry her before Quran 33:37 was revealed so if truly he was scared of what people will say then he would have waited for the Quran to be reveal then make it knows to people ,

        RESPONSE: LOL! You idiot donkey! Do you really think that waiting for the Quran to be revealed would make any difference? The people whose opinions he was mindful of were the PAGANS and HYPOCRITES, not the Muslims. It would not have mattered if he waited for the verse to be revealed. The pagans and hypocrites would STILL be critical of the marriage because Zayd was his adopted son. LOL, you are such an idiot! 🤣

        DONKEY: Just in case you want to talk about Quran 33:37 all you need to do is tell me why Mohamed claimed he was sacred at first and not scared again before Quran 33:37 is revealed then maybe I can understand

        RESPONSE: LOL, because he was human, you idiot, and he knew that marrying the divorced wife of an adopted son was considered taboo in Arabian society. And we know that he was STILL afraid of what people might think. This is proven by the hadith of Aisha (ra):

        Narrated Anas: Zaid bin Haritha came to the Prophet (ﷺ) complaining about his wife. The Prophet (ﷺ) kept on saying (to him), “Be afraid of Allah and keep your wife.” Aisha said, “If Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) were to conceal anything (of the Qur’an he would have concealed this Verse.” Zainab used to boast before the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) and used to say, “You were given in marriage by your families, while I was married (to the Prophet) by Allah from over seven Heavens.” And Thabit recited, “The Verse:– ‘But (O Muhammad) you did hide in your heart that which Allah was about to make manifest, you did fear the people,’ (33.37) was revealed in connection with Zainab and Zaid bin Haritha.” (Bukhari)

        DONKEY: I pray that you stop wasting time and focus on the main Issue from now on..

        RESPONSE: Pray to your false god all you want, you donkey. You will be exposed. Don’t try to run and change topics. I will crucify you and your god. 😂

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Larry

        LARRY: there is no where you mention Rashi or Irenaeus said God told Lot to do this and that all you said is Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED…which is very different from something that is written in the bible…
        QB LOL!! Everyone has noticed how you have tried to shift your argument. Originally, you claimed that Lot was UNAWARE of what was going on. When that was disproven, you changed your argument to “well, God didn’t tell him to do that”.
        QB What Irenaeus, who was a church father and far more knowledgeable about the Bible that a donkey like you, concluded was based on the logical flow of the text. Your god set up the whole thing to leave Lot and his daughters in a state of confusion. So, it is a natural conclusion to make. The funny thing is that we know that even if the Bible said it explicitly, you would simply change your argument to “since God commanded it, then it’s not a sin”. You see, donkey. No matter what proof you are shown, you will keep moving the goalpost because the evil religion of Christianity has destroyed your ability to think objectively.

        The problem is you are not an honest person… Quran 33:37 clearly state Allah told Mohamed something I consider it will cause him to sin and I said God doesn’t do things like that. Instead of you to show me example of where told someone to do something that will cause them to sin… You started with Abraham as if God told him to marry Sarah and as if the law of incest was giving at the time, then you move to Lot with all your argument you still cant provide where God told Lot or his daughters to do anything, all you came up with is assumption , then Hosea which even show how dishonesty you are because you must have seen the NIV and NLT translation of Hosea 3:1-3 but you choose to try and say Gomer is another woman .. tell me if you have not read NIV and NLT of this verses ..
        Hosea 3:1-3 The Lord said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.”So I bought her for fifteen shekels[a] of silver and about a homer and a lethek[b] of barley. Then I told her, “You are to live with me many days; you must not be a prostitute or be intimate with any man, and I will behave the same way toward you
        Then you mentioned Isaiah and I said show me where is says it’s a sin to be naked and also God gave Isaiah a sign to act out what will happen in future… in Isaiah Chapter 58 Isaiah was talking about Fasting that Pleases God, when He got to verse 7 He said Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh? The naked represent people in poverty and humiliation.. same thing God was saying through Isaiah that will happen to Egyptians and Ethiopians.. also we all know if someone said I am naked doesn’t mean they don’t have anything on them naked is different from Nude..

        QB The funny thing is that we know that even if the Bible said it explicitly, you would simply change your argument to “since God commanded it

        The funny thing is God don’t do things like that Psalm 5:4-5 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. As you can see He doesn’t support sin… so there is no way bible will say anything like that…in your head do you think God cannot achieve what He want without causing a man to sin..

        QB It doesn’t matter if you don’t follow them, donkey. Rashi proved from the Hebrew text that Lot knew what was going on. Do you admit this? Yes or no?
        No I don’t .. what you said Rashi said is He knew when she arose

        QB The funny thing is that your dishonesty and inconsistency are exposed with regard to Abraham and Sarah. In this case, you are forced to admit that your god was fine with the marriage. Thus, you claim that it was a NOT a sin for half-siblings marry and commit INCEST, because when your god says something, then it is automatically not a sin. So, the reality is that you will never admit that your god commanded Lot to commit incest, even if the Bible said he did. You would simply claim that if your god commands something, it is not a sin.
        Lol funny guy, when did you force me to admit anything ? how can you force me to admit what is written in the bible …boi you can lie QB…show me where you forced me to admit….At this moment I am really concerned about you, the way you lie and twist things… where did you see God telling Abraham to marry Sarah.. do you even read bible at all? Or is it that you cant be honest at all… Abraham and Sarah are already married before God to him to leave his country.. also you said what Abraham did was a sin I said no show me where it says it’s a sin…. How can someone be judge when there is no law that says they cant do something ..if it was a sin during the time of Abraham why did God now give the commandment to Moses ? If God already gave the law before, He would have punish people for doing it not giving them law that he already gave them before… Why would someone read bible and still think the way you think.. Let us see if you are a honest person, show me where you first see the word and the Law of INCEST in the bible and who did Abraham’s sons marry?

        QB Let me show you another example of your god allowing people to commit immoral deeds. In Deuteronomy 21:10-14, your god allowed forcefully taking a beautiful woman, forcing her to marry, and then releasing her without any care for her well-being if she failed to please her captor:

        Seriously I am worried for you.. is everything ok? Did you not see how God instruct them to let the girl mourn first, take the slave as a wife not as concubine like some fake prophet lol, to the extent that He told them if for some reason after the guy already have sex with her, He is not allowed to treat her like a slave anymore,, not allowed to sell her and allow her to go to wherever she wishes … What kind of a man are you QB? You read Quran and you see how your people are allowed to have sex with slaves without marrying them and nothing that says after having sex you should stop treating them like a slave …Seriously I don’t know what you are trying to achieve by all this… what is immoral in seeing a slave girl that you like and marry her? Are you saying taking them as concubine is moral thing to do? Are you sure you are not a Christian just trying to expose Muslim

        QB So, in this passage, your god allowed a few sinful acts:
        1. Forced marriage
        2. Rape
        3. Abandonment of one’s wife
        Notice that there is nothing said about the woman’s choice or her well-being after she is released. Where could she go? Her family was killed and she is basically alone in a foreign land. What kind of god would allow this? Now, I know. You will claim there was no sin here because you are a deranged donkey.
        Contrary to your immoral god, Allah (swt) set strict rules for taking wives and concubines. You couldn’t just use her for your pleasure and then send her away without any care for her well-being.

        Sahih Muslim 1438c Book 8, Hadith 3373
        We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl with them. We then asked Allah’s Messen- ger (ﷺ) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judg- ment must be born. I have so many references I don’t think I need to send more

        QB The ahadith are part of Islam. Always have been. We don’t just reject some ahadith willy-nilly. There is a process to it, unlike your stupid Bibull, which has books that were basically voted in to the canon
        And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject?
        SO you mean Mohamed use Hadith too during the time he was alive ..?

        QB Coming back to Rashi, what are you not understanding you idiot? Rashi was explaining what the HEBREW TEXT OF YOUR BIBLE says! Do you know Hebrew? So, its your BIBLE that says that Lot knew what he was doing. So your original claim that he was “unaware” was a lie.

        Liar Liar pants on fire… show me the text that says Lot knew what he was doing..

        QB RESPONSE: Donkey, do you know what a strawman argument is? Go ahead and Google it as you Google everything else.
        I didn’t say your god was responsible for Lot’s decisions. I said your god left Lot in a state of confusion and fear, which led to his daughters thinking they were the only people left on earth. So your god set the scene for the incest, which is why Irenaeus said it was by “divine arrangement”.

        Lol funny guy good that you admit God was not responsible for Lot’s decisions we are getting there …You have to learn how to be honest … Sodom and Gommorah is where Angel told Lot they want to destroy not the entire world, Lot went to a small city called Zoar, He could have gone to Canaan, Egypt is also there but he choose to stay in the cave and you are blaming God for that… Lol I want to see you blame God on judgement day..

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Why do you keep going in circles, donkey? This brings us back to what Rashi said. The HEBREW text in your stupid Bible INDICATES that Lot KNEW what was happening. So if he knew, then he was responsible for the sin, right? If you think Lot didn’t do anything wrong by knowingly getting drunk and sleeping with his younger daughter, then you are a sick, deranged donkey who needs psychiatric evaluation.

        Show me the part that the text says Lot knew what was going on in the bible not interpretation.. what you said before is Rashi said Lot knew when the older sister arose and I said to you it doesn’t mean he knew he had sex with her just because he knew when she arose. He was drunk , drunk people don’t always remember what they did while drunk so if he knew when she stood up doesn’t mean he knew what he was doing when they were having sex. But to make thing simple since you are assuming or did Rashi said he knew what he was doing when he was having sex? But like I said before lets go with your theory again not that I agree with it… say Lot knew even lets say Lot initiate the sex what has that got to do with God? You keep saying God left Lot in a state of confusion and fear, as if when we are confuse and sacred it gives us liberty to do anything that we want.. I am not a child and not stupid if you want to blame God for what happen between Lot and his daughters that’s up to you , its your opinion that its divine arrangement.. All I care about is fact not assumption .. fact is Allah told me Mohamed Quran 33:37, assumption is Lot knew what he was doing and the whole thing is divine arrangement.. Bible didn’t say the girls raped Lot .but we can interpret as them raping Lot even though its not written in the bible because there is text evidence to prove that not assumption .
        So if you want to continue with this issue, show me text evidence that shows God arranging it, show me text evidence that shows Lot aware of what was going on during the time of the sex, show me text evidence that shows Lot and his daughters knowing for sure that the whole word is destroyed.

        Like

      6. DONKEY: The problem is you are not an honest person… Quran 33:37 clearly state Allah told Mohamed something I consider it will cause him to sin and I said God doesn’t do things like that. Instead of you to show me example of where told someone to do something that will cause them to sin… You started with Abraham as if God told him to marry Sarah and as if the law of incest was giving at the time, then you move to Lot with all your argument you still cant provide where God told Lot or his daughters to do anything, all you came up with is assumption , then Hosea which even show how dishonesty you are because you must have seen the NIV and NLT translation of Hosea 3:1-3 but you choose to try and say Gomer is another woman .. tell me if you have not read NIV and NLT of this verses ..

        RESPONSE: LOL! The donkey shifts again! Your god didn’t need to tell Abraham, you idiot! The point is that he NEVER said that this marriage was an abomination! In fact, your god SUPPORTED the marriage as if it was normal. You are so sick and deranged, you think there needed to be a “law” forbidding INCEST. 🤣🤣 A sin is a sin no matter what era it was in, you idiot! Are you telling me your god allowed INCEST before revealing the Mosaic law???

        Regarding Lot, once again, it was your god who set it up! Plus, the text is CLEAR that Lot knew what was happening and still slept with his younger daughter as well.

        Regarding Hosea…🤣🤣🤣 I’m not stupid like you and blindly accept what a particular translation says. I go to the Hebrew text and see what words are used. The Hebrew word “issa” can mean “woman” or “wife”. The NIV and other translations simply chose “wife” as a matter of interpretation. But as I showed in the last response, there is NO INDICATION that Gomer is being referred to here. It could have been some other woman.

        DONKEY: Then you mentioned Isaiah and I said show me where is says it’s a sin to be naked and also God gave Isaiah a sign to act out what will happen in future… in Isaiah Chapter 58

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 You see folks? This donkey thinks marrying your half-sister, walking around naked, marrying an adulteress, etc. were not “sins”. Apparently, it was a “do what you will” kind of era where God didn’t consider immoral actions to be sins. What kind of god is that?

        And we’re supposed to think that donkey Larry’s god made Isaiah walk around naked just to make a point! LOL!! How about proving the point without forcing people to see a man’s private parts dangling around? How stupid was your god?

        And by the way, donkey, wearing clothes was the norm in that time as it was in any time. When your god expelled Adam and Eve from Eden, he made clothes for them. He didn’t say “go ahead, walk around naked. It’s not a sin.”

        DONKEY: also we all know if someone said I am naked doesn’t mean they don’t have anything on them naked is different from Nude..

        RESPONSE: Oh my goodness, now the donkey is saying Isaiah wasn’t “nude”! You donkey, the same Hebrew word “arom” is used in Genesis 2:25 where it says that Adam and Eve were both “naked” in Eden. Were they wearing any clothes, you demented liar? 😂

        DONKEY: The funny thing is God don’t do things like that Psalm 5:4-5 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. As you can see He doesn’t support sin… so there is no way bible will say anything like that…in your head do you think God cannot achieve what He want without causing a man to sin..

        RESPONSE: LOL!! This psalm simply contradicts the other verses we have shown you, idiot! In those verses, we see your god commanding or supporting immoral actions. The problem is that you simply move the goalpost whenever you are shown these actions and simply “well it’s not a sin when God commands it”.

        DONKEY: No I don’t .. what you said Rashi said is He knew when she arose

        RESPONSE: 😂 Rashi said that BASED ON THE HEBREW TEXT. What are you not getting, you moron? You are contradicting your Bible when you contradict Rashi!

        DONKEY: Lol funny guy, when did you force me to admit anything ? how can you force me to admit what is written in the bible …boi you can lie QB… show me where you forced me to admit….At this moment I am really concerned about you, the way you lie and twist things…

        RESPONSE: LOL! See you’re such an idiot, you don’t realize when you prove my point. What I said was that since it is undeniable that Abraham and Sarah were siblings and your god was fine with it, you could not say that your god was not responsible for Abraham and Sarah sinning. Thus, you were forced to make the argument that INCEST was NOT a SIN in those times! 😂
        Here is a simple challenge for you donkey: show me where it says in your Bible that INCEST was a NOT a sin before the Mosaic law was revealed.

        DONKEY: where did you see God telling Abraham to marry Sarah.. do you even read bible at all? Or is it that you cant be honest at all… Abraham and Sarah are already married before God to him to leave his country..

        RESPONSE: 🤣🤣 You should be concerned for yourself, you donkey. You are clearly a deranged individual. Your god didn’t need to “tell” Abraham to marry Sarah. By tacitly supporting the marriage, your god was showing he was fine with it. Hence, he was fine with INCEST. What are you not getting, you moron?

        DONKEY: also you said what Abraham did was a sin I said no show me where it says it’s a sin…. How can someone be judge when there is no law that says they cant do something ..

        RESPONSE: 😂 You really are a retard. Do you honestly think there needed to be a “law” to make it clear such things were forbidden. Was RAPE a sin in that time? Show me where in Genesis or any book before the law of Moses was revealed where your god said rape was a sin. If you can’t, then by your own logic, RAPE was ALLOWED and was NOT considered a sin by your god. Go ahead, donkey. Show me where it says that RAPE is a sin. I’ll wait.

        DONKEY: if it was a sin during the time of Abraham why did God now give the commandment to Moses ? If God already gave the law before, He would have punish people for doing it not giving them law that he already gave them before… Why would someone read bible and still think the way you think.. Let us see if you are a honest person, show me where you first see the word and the Law of INCEST in the bible and who did Abraham’s sons marry?

        RESPONSE: 🤣 This donkey thinks that he is making his god and his Bible look good when he makes this argument. What you are actually doing is showing how depraved your Bibull really is. To you, INCEST was normal and your god had no problem with it. LOL!! That is enough to show that your disgusting religion is a scam and a lie. Thank you donkey! 😂

        Isaac married his cousin, stupid, not his half-sister. Ishmael married an Egyptian woman who was not even related to him.

        DONKEY: Seriously I am worried for you.. is everything ok? Did you not see how God instruct them to let the girl mourn first, take the slave as a wife not as concubine like some fake prophet lol, to the extent that He told them if for some reason after the guy already have sex with her, He is not allowed to treat her like a slave anymore,, not allowed to sell her and allow her to go to wherever she wishes … What kind of a man are you QB? You read Quran and you see how your people are allowed to have sex with slaves without marrying them and nothing that says after having sex you should stop treating them like a slave …Seriously I don’t know what you are trying to achieve by all this… what is immoral in seeing a slave girl that you like and marry her? Are you saying taking them as concubine is moral thing to do? Are you sure you are not a Christian just trying to expose Muslim

        RESPONSE: 🤣 Donkey, as I said before, you need to be worried about yourself. You might need psychiatric help. So far, you have made excuses for incest and infanticide, and now you are making excuses for rape, forced marriage, and abandonment of wives.
        You sick donkey! You think FORCEFULLY taking a woman after MURDERING her family, forcing her to live in your home, then FORCED to marry him and have sex with him, then being thrown away to fend for herself WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT is a human thing to do? How sick are you, you disgusting pig? You think giving her time to mourn for her murdered family was some nice thing to do? LOL!! Her family was MURDERED, you idiot! Do you think she would want to be in that situation?

        As for concubines, LOL!!! We have already been through this, you donkey. Having concubines was not forbidden, not even in the law of Moses. Show me a law where it says having concubines was a sin? When you can’t, I will expect you to admit you are an idiot. OK? 😂

        DONKEY: Sahih Muslim 1438c Book 8, Hadith 3373
        We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl with them. We then asked Allah’s Messen- ger (ﷺ) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judg- ment must be born. I have so many references I don’t think I need to send more

        RESPONSE: 😂🤣 Why are you deflecting, you donkey? I asked about Deuteronomy 21. Why are you talking about the hadiths? Let me repeat:

        in this passage, your god allowed a few sinful acts:
        1. Forced marriage
        2. Rape
        3. Abandonment of one’s wife

        Notice that there is nothing said about the woman’s choice or her well-being after she is released. Where could she go? Her family was killed and she is basically alone in a foreign land. What kind of god would allow this? Now, I know. You will claim there was no sin here because you are a deranged donkey.

        CONTRARY TO YOUR IMMORAL GOD, ALLAH (SWT) SET STRICT RULES FOR TAKING WIVES AND CONCUBINES. YOU COULDN’T JUST USE HER FOR YOUR PLEASURE AND THEN SEND HER AWAY WITHOUT ANY CARE FOR HER WELL-BEING.

        DONKEY: SO you mean Mohamed use Hadith too during the time he was alive ..?

        RESPONSE: LOL!! What kind of a stupid question is this? The Prophet was sent to TEACH people the Quran and the Sunnah. How can a donkey like you not know this when you claim to be an “ex-Muslim”??? 😂😂 The ahadith are the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh) as recorded by his followers. Of course they existed in his time, stupid. 🤦‍♂️

        DONKEY: Liar Liar pants on fire… show me the text that says Lot knew what he was doing..

        RESPONSE: 🤦‍♂️😂 Man, we got a real retard here! It is in the HEBREW TEXT, you moron. Seriously, what is wrong with you? You do realize that the Bible was originally in Hebrew, right? Here is what the Hebrew says:

        Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a).

        DONKEY: Lol funny guy good that you admit God was not responsible for Lot’s decisions we are getting there …You have to learn how to be honest … Sodom and Gommorah is where Angel told Lot they want to destroy not the entire world, Lot went to a small city called Zoar, He could have gone to Canaan, Egypt is also there but he choose to stay in the cave and you are blaming God for that… Lol I want to see you blame God on judgement day..

        RESPONSE: Oy vei! Why are you so stupid? I NEVER said your god was “responsible”, dummy. That was YOUR asinine assumption. I said that your god ARRANGED the events so that Lot and his daughters were left confused and scared. This is what led to the incest. Per Irenaeus, it was DIVINELY ARRANGED.

        LOL!! On the day of judgement, your fake god won’t be there. I want to see you stand before Allah and realize what an idiot you were. 🤣🤣

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Why do you keep going in circles, donkey? This brings us back to what Rashi said. The HEBREW text in your stupid Bible INDICATES that Lot KNEW what was happening. So if he knew, then he was responsible for the sin, right? If you think Lot didn’t do anything wrong by knowingly getting drunk and sleeping with his younger daughter, then you are a sick, deranged donkey who needs psychiatric evaluation.

        DONKEY: Show me the part that the text says Lot knew what was going on in the bible not interpretation..

        RESPONSE: LOL!! This is not an interpretation, you idiot! It is based on what the TEXT actually says! The dotting on the text changes the meaning. What are you not getting? The Talmud in Nazir 23a explains these even more clearly:

        “The Gemara asks: But Lot was forced to participate in the sexual intercourse, as he was asleep at the time; how can he be considered a sinner? The Gemara answers that this is as a Sage taught in the name of Rabbi Yosei bar Rav Ḥoni: Why is there a dot in a Torah scroll over the letter vav of the word “uvekumah,” with regard to Lot’s elder daughter, in the verse: “And he did not know when she lay down and when she arose [uvekumah]” (Genesis 19:33)? This dot serves to say that when she lay down he did not know; however, when she arose he knew what she had done, as he later understood what had happened.”

        So, this is based on a scroll of the Torah! The dotting in the Hebrew indicated that Lot knew what was going on WHEN the elder daughter got up after having sex with him.

        DONKEY: what you said before is Rashi said Lot knew when the older sister arose and I said to you it doesn’t mean he knew he had sex with her just because he knew when she arose. He was drunk , drunk people don’t always remember what they did while drunk so if he knew when she stood up doesn’t mean he knew what he was doing when they were having sex.

        RESPONSE: HAHAHAHA!!! And I responded by pointing out that you are adding your own interpretation to the Bible, after initially claiming that you only go by what the Bible says. You can’t have it both ways, donkey. There is NOTHING in the Bible to indicate that Lot “didn’t remember”. And if you’re going by his drunken state to save you, you would have to admit that a drunk person is usually unable to get an erection and orgasm if he is unaware. Not only does alcohol cause problems with sexual arousal, but if Lot was completely drunk and had no idea what was going on, he would not have been able to have sex with his daughter.

        DONKEY: say Lot knew even lets say Lot initiate the sex what has that got to do with God? You keep saying God left Lot in a state of confusion and fear, as if when we are confuse and sacred it gives us liberty to do anything that we want.. I am not a child and not stupid if you want to blame God for what happen between Lot and his daughters that’s up to you , its your opinion that its divine arrangement..

        RESPONSE: First of all, you are stupid and you have the mental capacity of a child. You have already shown that. 😂 Second, leaving Lot and his daughters in a state of fear and confusion, letting them think that the world had ended and there were no men left implicates your god in this whole sordid affair. He could have EASILY sent the angel back and told them that everything is fine and there are plenty of men left in the world. Instead, your god left them in the dark.

        DONKEY: All I care about is fact not assumption .. fact is Allah told me Mohamed Quran 33:37, assumption is Lot knew what he was doing and the whole thing is divine arrangement.. Bible didn’t say the girls raped Lot .but we can interpret as them raping Lot even though its not written in the bible because there is text evidence to prove that not assumption .

        RESPONSE: 😂🤣😂 Oh this is too FUNNY! You really are one of the stupidest crosstians I have ever seen! First you claim that you don’t care about “assumptions”, then you go ahead and assume that Lot’s daughters “raped” him based on your stupid “interpretation”!! 🤣🤣 How can a woman rape a man? A man needs to get erect in order to have sex! That means he must be sexually aroused! Do you even know how the male reproductive system works, you donkey? You might want to go back to school and learn about that. 😂

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Larry

        QB It was after I kept pounding you with Rashi’s explanation that you suddenly changed your argument and asked where the Bible says that God told Lot to have sex with his daughters. This was not your original argument. Your original argument was that Lot did not know what he was doing. Think about it, donkey. If Lot did not know what he was doing, then it is obvious that God would not have told him to do it. But the problem is that the Biblical text (in the Hebrew) indicates that Lot KNEW what he was doing AFTER the elder daughter had slept with him. He KNEW what was happening and yet he STILL let the younger daughter do the same thing. Ergo, he was a pervert who desired his daughter. Get it now, donkey? Why are you lying? You just exposed yourself!

        I have to be honest with you , I have never met anyone like you and mr.heathcliff, The way you argue your case is soooooooooooo bad.. How can a person that said they love God talk like this…
        1 I never said to you that I changed my mind about Lot not having anything to do with what happened…how is me saying lets go with your theory means I agreed with you? I was only saying lets go with your theory so that I can prove to you that you are still going to be wrong about God… 2 you are a liar and I don’t know if Quran or Mohamed teaches you to lie when debating Christians, seems to me that you don’t care at all… How are you able to sleep at night knowing we are talking about God and you are trying so hard to make your lies and manipulation to stand. Which biblical text says Lot knew what he was doing while having sex with his daughter? Show me the text… if there is a text like that why cant you quote out of the bible?

        QB Don’t even think about running away, donkey. Remember, you’re on my blog. If you decide to ignore my comments, you will be banned. I know your feelings have been hurt, and I am happy to keep hurting your feelings. Don’t whine. When you come here and lie and spread propaganda for your evil religion, you can expect to be treated like a donkey.

        Who is running away from you? You can ban me if you like…I don’t care … how can you force me to reply to your message if you are not going to be honest and stop wasting time.. Simple thing, you don’t have knowledge of what you are talking about instead of you to watch other and learn you started saying things that doesn’t make sense .. From Abraham to Lot to David to Isaiah to Hosea. Everything you mentioned not one did God say to anyone of them what can make them sin. So if you want to barn me go ahead and to think you hurt my feelings goes to show how you think lol..

        QB If you don’t admit it, then you are a liar, donkey because it is the BIBLICAL TEXT that says he knew what he was doing! Why are you so stupid, lol? Once again, in case your feeble mind forgot what Rashi stated (I will put the important parts in CAPS):

        I really wish I know your age… MENTIONED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ELDER, IS DOTTED (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), TO DENOTE THAT WHEN SHE AROSE, HE DID KNOW, but nevertheless HE WAS NOT CAREFUL NOT TO DRINK ON THE SECOND NIGHT… How can you prove a man that said to be drunk knew what he was doing while having sex with his daughter just because some said he know when the girl arose.. do you think if a man get drunk he will remain drunk forever? Just because he knew when she arose does that mean he remember what happened before that? Show me bible text that says He remember everything that happened.. How can a man that didn’t know when his daughter lay down due to too much drinking knows everything that happened? Did you now just answer your own question that He didn’t know when she lay with him meaning he was too dunk to know when she lay with him and obviously maybe he wasn’t drunk anymore by the time she was standing up, it doesn’t mean he remember or knew what had happen..

        QB This donkey just doesn’t get it! Let me simply repeat what I wrote the last time. Donkey Larry admits that Lot and his daughters did something wrong when they committed INCEST (DUH!) but now, with Abraham and Sarah, he wonders if what they did (INCEST) was a sin!

        I never wonder if its was a sin or not… I asked you if it was a sin… since you brought the issue up so I need you to prove to me that it’s a sin first .. so show me how it’s a sin and after that show me where God told Abraham to do it.. again if you cant show anywhere that the text says God told some to do something then You can use it to defend Mohamed.

        QB So wait a minute, donkey. Are you saying that sleeping with your daughters was a sin but sleeping with your half-sister wasn’t??? Of course, we can see why the donkey is doing this. It’s because he knows his god was fine with incest between half-siblings, so the donkey has to try to show that Abraham and Sarah were not being sinful, but Lot and his daughters were.

        I never said Lot did anything wrong …I STAND ON MY WORD.. all I said is my bible did say Abraham sin or Lot sin… so I need you to show me how you know they sin.. why do you like assuming and cant show text evidence to support your claims ..

        QB Do we really need to explain to donkey Larry that INCEST was a sin? Apparently, he thinks that it was NOT a sin, according to the Bible. Well, donkey, if that is the case, then what else can we say other than that your Bibull is a disgusting book?

        I never argue if it was a sin or not… All I ask is show me how you know it was sin… why are you scared to show me? Is because you are lying to me and I am not buying it? All I know is the word INCEST and the LAW that FORBIDS it, I didn’t know about it until when God spoke to Moses. So please show me how you know it’s a in and where God told them to do it.

        QB Is that what you are saying, donkey? Are you saying that INCEST was NOT a sin in the time of Abraham? MAKE SURE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION

        What I said is, is it a sin ? that’s all I ask.. so if you will please answer for 1000000 times and stop asking me to help you out.. if you don’t know go and study or ask around.

        QB So, once again, to clarify: You, donkey Larry, are saying that INCEST was NOT a sin in the eyes of your god in the time of Abraham and was ONLY made a sin once the law of Moses was revealed later. Is this correct, donkey Larry?

        You tell me if it is and how you know…

        QB Oh by the way, there is another incestuous relationship in the Bible. This one involves Moses’ father Amram marrying his AUNT (Exodus 6:20).

        Wow now you got me I am crying lol Moses Father.. you didn’t read about Isaac? Funny guy see how blind you are…. Didn’t know Hatred can make a person so blind like this.. didn’t I say God gave Moses the law, are you saying Moses’s dad is younger than Moses

        Like

      8. DONKEY: I have to be honest with you , I have never met anyone like you and mr.heathcliff, The way you argue your case is soooooooooooo bad.. How can a person that said they love God talk like this…

        RESPONSE: No one cares for your whining, donkey. If you’re gonna open your mouth and spread lies about Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), I will chew you up and spit you out. So stop being a crybaby.

        DONKEY: 1 I never said to you that I changed my mind about Lot not having anything to do with what happened…how is me saying lets go with your theory means I agreed with you? I was only saying lets go with your theory so that I can prove to you that you are still going to be wrong about God… 2 you are a liar and I don’t know if Quran or Mohamed teaches you to lie when debating Christians, seems to me that you don’t care at all… How are you able to sleep at night knowing we are talking about God and you are trying so hard to make your lies and manipulation to stand. Which biblical text says Lot knew what he was doing while having sex with his daughter? Show me the text… if there is a text like that why cant you quote out of the bible?

        RESPONSE: We have already been through this, dummy. And the only one who is a liar is your, just like your god who deceived Jeremiah:

        “O LORD, you have deceived me,
        and I was deceived;
        you are stronger than I,
        and you have prevailed.
        I have become a laughingstock all the day;
        everyone mocks me.”

        🤣🤣

        DONKEY: Who is running away from you? You can ban me if you like…I don’t care … how can you force me to reply to your message if you are not going to be honest and stop wasting time.. Simple thing, you don’t have knowledge of what you are talking about instead of you to watch other and learn you started saying things that doesn’t make sense .. From Abraham to Lot to David to Isaiah to Hosea. Everything you mentioned not one did God say to anyone of them what can make them sin. So if you want to barn me go ahead and to think you hurt my feelings goes to show how you think lol..

        RESPONSE: Awww, is the donkey still whining and crying? You have been smashed by everyone, from Heath to Stew to Vaqas and to myself. You are a joke! Your knowledge of the Bibull and the Quran is pathetic. Most of the time, I can tell you are just Googling for ways to respond.

        DONKEY: How can you prove a man that said to be drunk knew what he was doing while having sex with his daughter just because some said he know when the girl arose..

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 My goodness! Again with the stupidity! This was not “some said…” you IDIOT! They were basing it on what a TORAL SCROLL said! In other words, a copy of Genesis 19 had the dotting to indicate that Lot knew what was going on. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

        DONKEY: I never wonder if its was a sin or not… I asked you if it was a sin… since you brought the issue up so I need you to prove to me that it’s a sin first .. so show me how it’s a sin and after that show me where God told Abraham to do it.. again if you cant show anywhere that the text says God told some to do something then You can use it to defend Mohamed.

        RESPONSE: LOL! If you need me to show you where your Bibull says it’s a sin before the law of Moses, then you are a deranged individual, plain and simple. Do you really need to a specific law to tell you that something is a sin? Aren’t somethings just wrong by their nature?

        I already asked you about rape. Show me where your god said rape was a sin. Now let me ask you this: SHOW ME WHERE IN GENESIS IT SAYS THAT BESTIALITY IS A SIN. Remember, you are asking where it says that incest is a sin. The answer of course is that Genesis does not explicitly state that incest was a sin, but that does not prove that it was not. It doesn’t say anything about incest.

        DONKEY: I never said Lot did anything wrong …I STAND ON MY WORD.. all I said is my bible did say Abraham sin or Lot sin… so I need you to show me how you know they sin.. why do you like assuming and cant show text evidence to support your claims ..

        RESPONSE: You can stand all you want, donkey. It doesn’t change the fact that the copies of your Bibull say the opposite. Lot was wrong. He could have stopped the younger daughter but he didn’t. You have been shown evidence for this, but because you are a donkey, you cannot admit that you are wrong.

        DONKEY: I never argue if it was a sin or not… All I ask is show me how you know it was sin… why are you scared to show me? Is because you are lying to me and I am not buying it? All I know is the word INCEST and the LAW that FORBIDS it, I didn’t know about it until when God spoke to Moses. So please show me how you know it’s a in and where God told them to do it.

        RESPONSE: 😂😂🤣 It is a sin because it is self-evident and harmful. Unlike you, I don’t need an explicit statement calling it a sin. I know by reason and common sense that it is a sin because it is immoral, disgusting, and harmful.

        DONKEY: What I said is, is it a sin ? that’s all I ask.. so if you will please answer for 1000000 times and stop asking me to help you out.. if you don’t know go and study or ask around.

        RESPONSE: LOL! Of course it’s a sin you stupid idiot, just like rape and bestiality are sins. You don’t need to be told that. It is common sense! Are you so deranged that you can’t see that? 😂

        DONKEY: Wow now you got me I am crying lol Moses Father.. you didn’t read about Isaac? Funny guy see how blind you are…. Didn’t know Hatred can make a person so blind like this.. didn’t I say God gave Moses the law, are you saying Moses’s dad is younger than Moses

        RESPONSE: 🤣🤣 You donkey, Isaac married his cousin, not his sister or his aunt. There is a difference between marrying your cousin and marrying a sister. Apparently, you are too stupid to realize that. 😂😂

        Liked by 1 person

      9. “The ahadith are part of Islam. Always have been. We don’t just reject some ahadith willy-nilly. There is a process to it, unlike your stupid Bibull”

        Up to the same thing as usual It was already explained to him by someone else and either he didn’t get it or he simply ignored it on purpose but judging from his poor intelligence i’d take the first option

        “What Irenaeus, who was a church father and far more knowledgeable about the Bible that a donkey like you,”

        Yes infact he has more authority for interpretation in the church hierarchy and in terms of “divine” guidance due to the fact that as per Jerome he was a disciple of Papias who learned the infallible holy spirit-filled teachings of John from the Apostle John himself and he also learned from Polycarp who in turn learned from John as well

        “The funny thing is this as a Christian we don’t say we take any other book apart from bible”

        Yet you use those same writings from the early fathers to establish a grammar for the greek text of the new testament

        Yet you used the same writings from the early fathers to argue against Unitarian and JW alternative interpretations of Trinitarian prooftexts

        Yet you use the same writings to establish a canon

        Yet you use the same writings to establish identity of authorship for the NT

        Yet you use those same writings to authoritatively interpret other ambiguous texts

        What on earth would be your bible without those texts…you need them even for a simple thing such as grammar tsk tsk

        Liked by 2 people

    1. mr.heathcliff

      ” When God told Lot and his family to run away from Sodom God didn’t command them to go anywhere , God is not responsible for our choices in life funny guy…God telling Lot to run away from a city that is about to be destroy is not a Sin and no way God is responsible for his choice of going to the cave if he choose to go back to Abraham I don’t think you will be blaming God now in other hand according to Quran Allah told Mohamed what to do which if he agree he will commit sin.”

      your god yhwh commmited the sin by not reminding them that their were plenty of men.
      its like you are on IRELAND and you just have your grandfather with you. you tell your grandfather “i have to eat you otherwise i will die”

      I KNOWINGLY know that there is food AROUND the corner and stay silent, who is at fault here?
      i speak to you on MOBILE PHONE , i tell dog like you,
      “hey don’t eat your dad, there is FOOD around the corner ”

      if i keep silent, its my fault for letting u eat your daddy, right? pig ?

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      ” mistake by saying God told Hosea to marry someone that is married and I told you NO God was telling him to love his wife again in Hosea 3:1 ..HOW CAN A HUSBANB COMMIT ADULTERY WITH HIS WIFE? Definition of adultery noun from the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary — sex between a married person and someone who is not their husband or wife…”

      .message of qb :

      Regarding Gomer, as I already showed, she was not the woman in Hosea 3. It was some other woman. There is no evidence that it was Gomer.

      But assuming for the sake of argument that it was her, she should have been punished for adultery. That’s what the law required! Instead, we are told that Hosea should take her back! Amazing! What if Hosea faked the revelation so he could save his wife from being stoned to death? Why is it that the god of the Bible decides to spare an adulteress just to make some silly metaphor? Sounds suspicious.

      “RESPONSE: Donkey Larry, you pathetic idiot, I already explained this. You god deliberately left Lot and his daughters confused and fearful. This is why Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED. In other words, your god set it up.
      Regarding punishment”

      And this seems to be the case with gomer and hosis.

      god would not only know that she would prostitute her self even after marriage, hosis in disobediance to the law of punishing prostitute would have to allow his promiscuous wife to prostitute herself.

      /////

      quote :

      In illustration of this message Hosea is instructed to go after his wife, who has become so promiscuous, and lure her back into their relationship. That too will be what happens when Israel returns to God, who originally called her his own: “Afterwards the Israelites shall return and seek the Lord their God . . . they shall come in awe to the LORD and to his goodness in these latter days” (3:5).

      But before that, there are some ugly and bad times ahead: acts of prostitution, as Israel continues to adore and worship other gods more than Yahweh, and misery…”

      as is clear , she kept doing adultery AFTER marrieage

      2 When the Lord first spoke through Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea, “Go, take for yourself a wife of whoredom and have children of whoredom, for the land commits great whoredom by forsaking the Lord.”

      so yhwh tells hosis to marry a whore

      Like

    3. mr.heathcliff

      “… 1 Samuel 15:33 But Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless, so shall your mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hacked Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.. Now BQ the Lawyer I need a proof from you that the Amalekite didn’t kill innocent children ”

      1 Samuel 30:1 Then it happened when David and his men came to Ziklag on the third day, that the Amalekites had made a raid on the Negev and on Ziklag, and had overthrown Ziklag and burned it with fire; 2 and they took captive the women and all who were in it, both small and great, without killing anyone, and carried them off and went their way. 3 When David and his men came to the city, behold, it was burned with fire, and their wives and their sons and their daughters had been taken captive.

      “and also Why is a crime for God to give command to kill people He considered enemy ? ”

      those children made women childless ?

      “Did you not read what happened in Egypt when God sent Moses to Pharaoh ? if you don’t believe what the bible says, what about what Quran 7:133 So We sent against them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood – a succession of clear signs. But they were arrogant and became a guilty folk…. Are you saying Allah only punished the Adult in Quran 7:133 and not the innocent children … ”

      Are cancer cells judged? Is a tree that falls on a child? Is a wave from the ocean that drowns someone? No, they are not moral entities, and therefore fall outside of what we can judge as good or evil. In reality when we say that one of these things is evil, we are really saying it is harmful.

      harmful and evil r two different things

      ONTHE OTHER HAND

      yhwh LIKE SATAN commands the RIPPING OF PREGNANT WOMEN and killing the unborn

      Like

    4. mr.heathcliff

      ” I don’t believe his revelations are from God…”

      you believe stuff like this :
      I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is f……. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman

      “so again if God tell Mohamed that he will marry Zaynab after she divorce … That will mean for Mohamed to obey He will desire to marry Zaynab while she was still married”

      “he will DESIRE to ”

      after reading sex bits of the bible, i dont desire to get a jar of vaseline and go toilet
      what is your proof “he will DESIRE TO…”

      desire and obediance are two different things .

      ” … But you guys are saying He didn’t desire to marry her while she was married because He was scared… ”

      “Keep your wife and fear Allah ,” while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose.

      So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in….

      x
      desire
      /dɪˈzʌɪə/
      Learn to pronounce
      noun
      a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.
      “he resisted public desires for choice in education”

      y
      obedience
      /əˈbiːdɪəns/
      Learn to pronounce
      noun
      compliance with an order, request, or law or submission to another’s authority.
      “children were taught to show their parents obedience”

      scared = z

      you could do y (physically or internally ) and still be z WHICH HAS nothing to do with x

      “that means while she was married in his heart he wasn’t going to obey God because he was scared of people”

      faulty connection as demonstrated above.

      ” because Mohamed desire to marry her before Quran 33:37 was revealed”

      remember your words “desire to marry her before….”
      okay, bring evidence

      Like

    5. mr.heathcliff

      “Then you mentioned Isaiah and I said show me where is says it’s a sin to be naked ”

      show me in the bible where it says it is a sin to have sex with a child .

      before asking these dumb and stupid questions learn about shame and honour societies you stupid idiot.

      Genesis 9:22-23
      Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father’s nakedness.

      Exodus 20:26
      Verse Concepts
      And you shall not go up by steps to My altar, so that your nakedness will not be exposed on it.’

      Ezekiel 16:8
      Verse Concepts
      “Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love; so I spread My skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you and entered into a covenant with you so that you became Mine,” declares the Lord God.

      Ezekiel 23:18
      She uncovered her harlotries and uncovered her nakedness; then I became disgusted with her, as I had become disgusted with her sister.

      3 And the LORD said, “Even as My servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot three years as a sign and token against Egypt and Cush,
      4 so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old, naked and barefoot with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

      “and also God gave Isaiah a sign to act out what will happen in future… ”

      irrelavant bs,

      “in Isaiah Chapter 58 Isaiah was talking about Fasting that Pleases God, when He got to verse 7 He said Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh? The naked represent people in poverty and humiliation..”

      irrelavant bs

      1 In the year that the commander came to Ashdod, when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him and he fought against Ashdod and captured it,
      2 at that time the LORD spoke through Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, “Go and loosen the sackcloth from your hips and take your shoes off your feet.” And he did so, going naked and barefoot.
      3 And the LORD said, “Even as My servant Isaiah has gone naked and barefoot three years as a sign and token against Egypt and Cush,
      4 so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old, naked and barefoot with buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

      ” same thing God was saying through Isaiah that will happen to Egyptians and Ethiopians.. ”

      a dog like you conveniently left out “buttocks uncovered”

      Like

    6. mr.heathcliff

      “The funny thing is God don’t do things like that Psalm 5:4-5 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. As you can see He doesn’t support sin… so there is no way bible will say anything like that…in your head do you think God cannot achieve what He want without causing a man to sin..”

      quote:

      yahweh’s objection to avraham, in their debate. he does not reply, “i’m god, whatever i do is moral, shuttup abe.” instead he agrees that his plan is potentially immoral, and revises it.

      “The idea that God would destroy the righteous along with the wicked would be “unthinkable,” said Abraham—not once but twice.”

      FYI the hebrew word here is actually חָלִ֨לָה “sacrilege”. the english translation greatly softens what avraham is doing here: charging yahweh with something like profanity, obscenity, desecration, or blasphemy.

      LOL

      consider:
      ‎חלל I ‎ch. ‎same, ‎1) ‎to ‎perforate, ‎v. ‎חליל. ‎- ‎2) ‎to ‎de- ‎grade, ‎profane. ‎Part. ‎pass. ‎חליל, ‎f. ‎חלילא. ‎Targ. ‎O. ‎Lev. ‎XXI, ‎14. ‎– ‎3) ‎(denom. ‎of ‎חולאא) ‎to ‎be ‎profaned. ‎Targ. ‎Ez. ‎XXII, ‎26 ‎וחלת. ‎Pa. ‎חליל ‎1) ‎to ‎desecrate, ‎profane, ‎degrade. ‎Targ. ‎Prov. ‎XXX, ‎9; ‎a. ‎e. ‎– ‎Part. ‎pass. ‎מחעל, ‎f. ‎מחללא, ‎מחלא. ‎Targ. ‎O. ‎Lev. ‎XXI, ‎7 ‎(ed. ‎Berl. ‎מחלא, ‎Regia ‎מחלא). ‎- ‎Y. ‎Kil. ‎IX, ‎32b ‎top. ‎a. ‎e. ‎וכ׳ ‎דחללינן ‎דילמא ‎did ‎we ‎perhaps ‎des- ‎ecrate ‎the ‎Sabbath? ‎– ‎Ber. ‎6a ‎מחללי ‎Ms. ‎(ed. ‎מחליין); ‎a. ‎e. ‎– ‎2) ‎to ‎redeem. ‎B. ‎Mets. ‎44b ‎מחללינן ‎לא ‎אפירא ‎טבעא ‎we ‎dare ‎not ‎redeem ‎coins ‎with ‎goods. ‎Af. ‎אחיל, ‎אחיל ‎same, ‎to ‎desecrate. ‎Targ. ‎O. ‎Lev. ‎XIX, ‎8. ‎Targ. ‎Am. ‎II, ‎7 ‎לאחלא ‎(ed. ‎Lag. ‎לאפסא); ‎a. ‎fr. ‎— ‎Part. ‎pass. ‎f. ‎מהלא, ‎v. ‎supra. ‎Ittaf. ‎אתחל, ‎אתחל, ‎אתחל ‎to ‎be ‎profaned. ‎Targ. ‎Ez. ‎XXXVI, ‎23 ‎(not ‎אתחל). ‎Ib. ‎VII, ‎24; ‎a. ‎fr. ‎- ‎Snh. ‎51a ‎היכא ‎השתא ‎דמיתחלא ‎if ‎she ‎degraded ‎herself ‎now; ‎וקיימא ‎מית׳ ‎she ‎was ‎degraded ‎before ‎this.
      https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Dictionary_of_the_Targumim,_the_Talmud_Babli_and_Yerushalmi,_and_the_Midrashic_Literature/%D7%97%D7%9C%D7%9C_-_%D7%97%D7%9C%D7%9C%D7%94
      בהלכה, חלל הוא צאצא של כהן שהתחלל ממעמדו כיוון שנולד מנישואים האסורים על כהן, וקדושת הכהונה פוקעת ממנו. חללה פסולה מלהינשא לכהן כשר.
      In Halacha , “Chalal” is a descendant of a Cohen who has desecrated his status because he was born from a forbidden marriage to Cohen, and the sanctity of the priesthood expires from him. “Chalal” is invalid for marrying a kosher priest.
      https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%9C%D7%9C_(%D7%9B%D7%94%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%94)
      חָלִ֫ילָה substantive with ה locative, used as exclamation literally ad profanum! i.e. far be it (for me, thee, etc.) ! (see BaNB 136) — ׳ח Genesis 44:7 17t., חָלִלָה Genesis 18:25b + 2t. — alone, 1 Samuel 14:45; 1 Samuel 20:2; elsewhere with לְ person: Genesis 18:25b (J), 1 Samuel 2:30; 1 Samuel 20:9; 1 Samuel 22:15; + מִן and infinitive of act deprecated Genesis 18:25; a Genesis 44:7,17 (all J), Joshua 24:16 (E), 1 Samuel 12:23; 2 Samuel 23:17; + מִמֶּנּוּ ל (peculiarly) Joshua 22:29 (P; = from it, even to rebel); + אִם (= surely not) 2 Samuel 20:20 (׳ח ׳ח), Job 27:5; strengthened idiomatically by מיהוה, ׳לִי מִיּ׳ח followed by מִן and infinitive 1 Samuel 26:11; 1 Kings 21:3 + 2 Samuel 23:17 (read מיהוה, ᵐ5L ᵑ6 ᵑ7) = 1 Chronicles 11:19 (מאלהי) followed by אִם 1 Samuel 24:7; לָאֵל מֵרֶשַׁע ׳ח Job 34:10.
      brown-driver-briggs
      III. [חָלַל] verb pollute, defile, profane;
      Hiphil also begin (literally untie, loosen, open, see Arabic) (Arabic untie, undo, become free, lawful, free from obligation or tie; IV. make lawful; x. esteem lawful or free, profane, desecrate, violate; Late Hebrew חלל be profane, desecrated (also Piel Hiphil transitive), compare Aramaic חֲלַל Pael is purify, Aphel is profane) —
      Niphal Perfect נִחָ֑ל Ezekiel 25:3, נִחַלְתְּ (תִּי- Co) Ezekiel 22:16, נִחֲלוּ Ezekiel 7:24; Imperfect יֵחָ֑ל Isaiah 48:11, תֵּחֵל Leviticus 21:9, וָאֵחַל Ezekiel 22:26; Infinitive הֵחֵל Ezekiel 20:9,14,22, suffix לְהֵחַלּוֺ Leviticus 21:4. —
      1 reflex. pollute, defile oneself
      a. ritually, by contact with dead “” טמא, Leviticus 21:4 (H).
      b. sexually “” זנה Leviticus 21:9 (H).
      2 Pass., be polluted, defiled, of holy places Ezekiel 7:24; Ezekiel 25:3, name of God Ezekiel 20:9,14,22; Isaiah 48:11 and even God himself Ezekiel 22:16,26.
      Piel Perfect חִלֵּל Leviticus 19:8 3t.; suffix חִלִּלוֺ Deuteronomy 20:6; 2masculine singular חִלַּלְתָּ Genesis 49:4 3t.; 2 feminine singular חִלָּ֑֔לְתְּ Ezekiel 22:8; 3plural suffix חִלְּלוּהֻ֯ Ezekiel 7:21 etc., + 16 t. Perfect; Imperfect יְחַלֵּל Leviticus 21:12,15,23; suffix יְחַלְּלֶנּוּ Deuteronomy 20:6; plural יְחַלְּלוּ Leviticus 21:6 4t., יְחַלֵּ֑לוּ Psalm 89:32 etc., + 13 t. Imperfect; Infinitive חַלֵּל Amos 2:7 4t.; חַלְּלוֺ Ezekiel 23:39 4t.; חַלְּלָם Jeremiah 16:18; Participle מְחַלֵּל Ezekiel 24:21 plural מְחַלְּלִים Malachi 1:12; Nehemiah 13:17; suffix מְחַלֲלֶיהָ Exodus 31:14; feminine מְחַלֶּלֶת Leviticus 21:9; —
      1 defile, pollute:
      a. sexually, Genesis 49:4 (poem) = 1 Chronicles 5:1 (the father’s bed); a woman = זנה Leviticus 19:29; Leviticus 21:9 (H); זַרְעוֺ Leviticus 21:15 (H).
      b. ceremonially, profane, the altar by a tool Exodus 20:25 (JE); sacred places Leviticus 21:12,23 (H), Ezekiel 7:21,22 (twice in verse); Ezekiel 23:39; Ezekiel 24:21; Ezekiel 44:7; Zephaniah 3:4; Malachi 2:11; Psalm 74:7; Daniel 11:31; the holy land Jeremiah 16:18; sacred things Leviticus 19:8; Leviticus 22:9,15 (H) Numbers 18:32 (P) Ezekiel 22:26; the sabbath Exodus 31:14 (P), Isaiah 56:2,6; Ezekiel 20:13,16,21,24; Ezekiel 22:8; Ezekiel 23:38; Nehemiah 13:17,18; and so the sanctity of the prince of Tyre who made himself God, and his holy places, Ezekiel 28:7,16,18.
      c. the name of God Leviticus 18:21; Leviticus 19:12; Leviticus 20:3; Leviticus 21:6; Leviticus 22:2,32 (all H), Amos 2:7; Jeremiah 34:16; Ezekiel 20:39; Ezekiel 36:20,21,22,23; Malachi 1:12, God himself Ezekiel 13:19.
      d. ׳י defiles or profanes his inheritance by giving it over to Babylon Isaiah 47:6; the princes of the sanctuary by giving them to Chaldeans Isaiah 43:28.
      2 violate the honour of, dishonour, ׳י subject crown of Davidic kingdom Psalm 89:40 (followed by לארץ pregnantly), kingdom of Judah Lamentations 2:2; the גאון בל צבי Isaiah 23:9.
      3 violate a covenant Psalm 55:21; Psalm 89:35; Malachi 2:10, the חקות of God Psalm 89:32.
      brown-driver-briggs

      Like

  40. stewjo004

    @ Looney Larry

    “…I am showing you more evidence why Mohamed cant be a true prophet…”

    And this is the fundamental question you’ve been asked for weeks, WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR A TRUE PROPHET? You cannot establish something as false without determining what is true.

    Liked by 4 people

      1. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        No. We have to first establish criteria for what is and isn’t a prophet. Once again you cannot prove something is false without first showing what is right. So again what are the criteria for prophethood? Why is this such a difficult question for you?

        Liked by 4 people

      2. Larry

        Lol what is going on here I thought we already dealt with this about 2months ago… why are you trying to dodge my question? is it because you realise you are wrong and don’t want to admit.. why all of a sudden you are asking this question again?

        stewjo004
        @ Lunatic Larry

        Since we’re using your finally agreed-upon criteria for prophethood (that doesn’t exist in the Bible by the way and Jesus (as) would fail this miserably but whatever) I’ll argue:

        Deuteronomy 18:18

        Daniel 2

        John 1:19

        Liked by 1 person

        JULY 13, 2021 AT 7:43 PM

        This was you in July .

        Will you now answer the question I asked on SEPTEMBER 19, 2021 AT 8:24 AM and don’t try to change the topic again. Thanks

        Like

      3. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        Interesting you didn’t quote what you actually said, lets read:

        “Back to your message you are right about me not giving criteria for prophethood, I have already explain why I am not giving and I don’t see reason why anyone that know Mohamed is not a fake prophet can’t just prove without me giving criteria…”

        So you conceded you never gave anything. But let’s continue;

        “….there is a criteria in Deuteronomy 18.15-22 which I have seen a lot Videos, debates, argument etc on it to prove Mohamed is a prophet from Muslims and I have seen a lot from Christians too claiming Mohamed does not fulfil those criteria I am not trying to do all that I only want to discuss with anyone based on what they know and believe individually…”

        So at best we can use Deuteronomy 18:15-22 right now. Are you agreeing to this?

        “Now Going back to proving Mohamed is Fake or real prophet and the criteria you ask for.
        Firstly do you believe Bible is INTERPOLATED but interpolation still implies retention of some original truths because definition of INTERPOLATED is insert (something of a different nature) into something else. That means some of the words are correct some are inserted Or do you think everything in bible is not word of God.
        Secondly Can you use NEW TESTAMENT ONLY TO PROVE Mohamed is a true prophet as Quran suggested that he was mentioned in Gospel and we Christians call New Testament Gospel/Injil. Now you have the criteria .”

        So the only other criteria you gave is he has to be mentioned in the NT. This is NOT a criterion for prophethood or ALL your prophets are out. You need to have a consistent set of things across all of them. So what is it in a list form?

        Liked by 3 people

      4. Larry

        Are you having problem answering the question I asked? Didn’t you see @Rehman response to the similar question? Do you want to answer it or not ? If you want to go back to this I don’t have a problem.. I just want us to finish what we were talking about first. Lol but if you have realised how you are wrong to think God did anything wrong no problem just let me know then we can move on to the next one

        Like

      5. Larry

        QB this donkey is retarded As I pointed out before, there is NO INDICATION in the text that his wife Gomer is the “woman” referred to in Hosea 3:1. While there is disagreement among the Jewish and Christian scholars because of the ambiguity of the text, there is no reason to think that the woman is supposed to be Gomer. There is no indication that she has reverted to her old ways of prostitution. She is not mentioned by name again after chapter 1

        Hosea 3:1 The LORD said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.. funny Guy so when God said to Hosea to demonstrate what will happen to Israelites by the way they are like prostitute and by the way God will take Israelites back… so if Hosea take someone else back how does that make sense to the prophecy? If Hosea didn’t take Gomer back how can God take Israelites back.. does that mean God took someone else too as Israelites same way Hosea marry another woman… funny guy

        QB And by the way, no one said the Amalekites may not have killed innocent children. But whether they did or didn’t is IRRELEVANT. Are you telling me that your god ordered the killing of OTHER INNOCENT CHILDREN simply because the Amalekites did it? Is your god no better than some pagan Amalekites, that to avenge the killing of innocent children, he had other innocent children killed? This is what the evil Bibull does to people. It turns them into apologists for INFANTICIDE. This is proof of how evil you pagans really are.

        Well you will need a very good lawyer to file you case in crown court because this what God said in Deuteronomy 5:8-9 First commandment
        You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
        Let see if you can answer with a straightforward answer your brothers have not been able to do so.. Deuteronomy 5:8-9 is it truly from God? Or did Moses lie? Or that verse never exist during the time of Moses and Jews never practice anything like that.

        QB Donkey is running out of arguments. As has been proven, there was no “sin” in any of this. Furthermore, the whole incident shows that Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet. He knew that Zayd and Zaynab would divorce, and it happened. Meanwhile, the Biblical prophets couldn’t 6:00 at 5:30.
        QB As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad (pbuh) did not know what would happen to Zayd and Zaynab’s marriage, but as we have seen, he did. And even then, the ONLY thing he thought about was when the divorce occurs, he will marry Zaynab. That’s it! No sin! No coveting!

        Wow seriously is this really you QB or have you been hacked? Did you just shoot yourself in the foot again? As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad (pbuh) did not know what would happen to Zayd and Zaynab’s marriage. How do you know he knew before hand? Do you not know that the verse you are talking about only happened after the divorce looooooooooooooool QB QB QB QB QB… do you really think before replying me anymore or you just say whatever you like to me… Do you realise Allah revealed Quran 33:37 after the divorce so how can you prove he knew before since he never said anything before it happened … so if I see you wearing a Red shirt tomorrow and I say to you that God revealed to me that you will wear a red shirt you will believe I am a prophet looooooooooooooooooool wow anyway lets leave that for now… I already know you don’t know nada lol and thanks again for proving me right..
        You lied about As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad did not know… what you and @Rehman was saying is He was sacred LOOOOOOOL just because I have prove to you that he wasn’t scared you changed your tone LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I don’t blame you… @Rehman don’t know what to say about it too he just left you to deal with it…
        … A very important question did Mohamed tell anyone about what God revealed to him before Zaid and Zaynab divorced?

        Like

      6. DONKEY: Hosea 3:1 The LORD said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another man and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes.. funny Guy so when God said to Hosea to demonstrate what will happen to Israelites by the way they are like prostitute and by the way God will take Israelites back… so if Hosea take someone else back how does that make sense to the prophecy? If Hosea didn’t take Gomer back how can God take Israelites back.. does that mean God took someone else too as Israelites same way Hosea marry another woman… funny guy

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 What an idiot! This is one particular translation, dummy. The Hebrew word is “issa” which can mean “woman”, “female”, or “wife”, depending on the context. It’s like saying “protect your woman”. Depending on the context, it can mean “protect your wife”, “protect your girlfriend”, etc. The translation you chose simply decided to use “wife” without any justification. Other translations are more honest and use the word “woman”. So you still need to prove that this “woman” was Gomer. Good luck, donkey!

        DONKEY: Well you will need a very good lawyer to file you case in crown court because this what God said in Deuteronomy 5:8-9 First commandment
        You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

        RESPONSE: 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ My goodness, so you’re saying your god is so evil as to have children MURDERED as a punishment for their parents? Then not only god is evil, but he is also contradicting himself, because it says elsewhere:

        “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.” (Deut 24:16)

        “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.” (Ezekiel 18:20)

        Thanks for showing again that you don’t know your own Bible.

        DONKEY: Let see if you can answer with a straightforward answer your brothers have not been able to do so.. Deuteronomy 5:8-9 is it truly from God? Or did Moses lie? Or that verse never exist during the time of Moses and Jews never practice anything like that.

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 We don’t care, donkey, because we don’t believe in your Bible. We have our Quran and Sunnah. That’s all we need. We believe your Bible is corrupt, idiot. Even if Deuteronomy 5 was authentic, it still contradicts Deuteronomy 24:16 and Ezekiel 18:20. That’s a problem for you, not for us. So far, you have failed miserably to explain why your evil god felt it necessary to MURDER INNOCENT CHILDREN AND BABIES. For God’s sake, think about this rationally. Do you honestly think the True and Just God would order such barbarism? Killing a baby? Can you imagine the carnage? A soldier sticking a sword into the body of an infant? Why can’t you see how evil that is?

        DONKEY: Wow seriously is this really you QB or have you been hacked? Did you just shoot yourself in the foot again? As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad (pbuh) did not know what would happen to Zayd and Zaynab’s marriage. How do you know he knew before hand? Do you not know that the verse you are talking about only happened after the divorce looooooooooooooool QB QB QB QB QB

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 Oh donkey, donkey, donkey, donkey, you really are retarded, aren’t you? The sources you have quoted say it very clearly that he had been given a revelation that Zayd and Zaynab would divorce. How stupid are you? I mean we already know you are as dumb as a doorknob, but now you also show that you have the memory span of a goldfish. 🤣

        DONKEY: Do you realise Allah revealed Quran 33:37 after the divorce so how can you prove he knew before since he never said anything before it happened … so if I see you wearing a Red shirt tomorrow and I say to you that God revealed to me that you will wear a red shirt you will believe I am a prophet looooooooooooooooooool wow anyway lets leave that for now… I already know you don’t know nada lol and thanks again for proving me right..

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 Cope harder, donkey. The verse itself refutes you, donkey!

        “And ˹remember, O Prophet,˺ when you said to the one1 for whom Allah has done a favour and you ˹too˺ have done a favour,2 “Keep your wife and fear Allah,” WHILE CONCEALING WITHIN YOURSELF WHAT ALLAH WAS GOING TO REVEAL.”
        So, Muhammad (pbuh) already knew this was going to happen. How dumb are you? 😂🤣🤣

        DONKEY: You lied about As I said, “coveting” would only apply if Muhammad did not know… what you and @Rehman was saying is He was sacred LOOOOOOOL just because I have prove to you that he wasn’t scared you changed your tone LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL I don’t blame you… @Rehman don’t know what to say about it too he just left you to deal with it…

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 Again you show your stupidity! What I said was that if Muhammad (pbuh) had no idea that Zayd and Zaynab were having marriage difficulties and would divorce very soon, and he began having thoughts about wanting to marry Zaynab, THEN he would be “coveting” her. But that’s not what happened. He only had the thought of marrying Zaynab WHEN he knew Zayd and her would divorce. He had foreknowledge and it was ONLY because of that that he had the natural thought that if Zaynab was divorced, he could marry her. There is no sin here! No coveting! Do you get it now, donkey? Admit it. You have the intellect of a child. 🤣🤣

        DONKEY: … A very important question did Mohamed tell anyone about what God revealed to him before Zaid and Zaynab divorced?

        RESPONSE: There is no indication that he did, donkey. The verse says he “concealed” what Allah would reveal. So, most likely he didn’t tell anyone.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        Wow you sure are doing a lot for something as simple as:

        1. Chosen by God
        2. Doesn’t make false prophecy
        3. Good character
        4…..

        Isn’t that much simpler?

        Liked by 3 people

      8. Larry

        I don’t have to give you criteria based on OT… I consider both to be word of God so it doesnt matter if I am using NT for my criteria … I have already explained why I am using only NT but if you want me to use OT and NT for my criteria no problem .. Just answer my question first then we can go back on this I really dont have problem with it at all… I am only trying to approach things differently in way you guys can understand but it seems you love the way you will be qouting Mohamed is like Moses lol .. we will revisit the topic again just answer my question first pls

        You need to stop running away from this Just answer this questions, be an honest and knowledgeable man you claimed to be

        Those blood sacrifices you are referring to according to bible God gave those commandment to Moses, Jews believe Moses and practice those things…according to your Quran Moses is a real prophet.. so are you saying those stories in the bible about blood sacrifices never happened according to your research ? are you saying Jewish people denied ever sacrificing any animal according to Moses Law? Or are you saying Moses is fake? Or Moses never gave those Law? If God gave the laws why do you call it pagan.. Do you decides what Pagan is or God decides ?

        Like

      9. Larry

        @Stew

        I don’t have to give you criteria based on OT… I consider both to be word of God so it doesnt matter if I am using NT for my criteria … I have already explained why I am using only NT but if you want me to use OT and NT for my criteria no problem .. Just answer my question first then we can go back on this I really dont have problem with it at all… I am only trying to approach things differently in way you guys can understand but it seems you love the way you will be qouting Mohamed is like Moses lol .. we will revisit the topic again just answer my question first pls

        You need to stop running away from this Just answer this questions, be an honest and knowledgeable man you claimed to be…..

        Those blood sacrifices you are referring to according to bible God gave those commandment to Moses, Jews believe Moses and practice those things…according to your Quran Moses is a real prophet.. so are you saying those stories in the bible about blood sacrifices never happened according to your research ? are you saying Jewish people denied ever sacrificing any animal according to Moses Law? Or are you saying Moses is fake? Or Moses never gave those Law? If God gave the laws why do you call it pagan.. Do you decides what Pagan is or God decides ?

        Like

      10. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “I don’t have to give you criteria based on OT…”

        I don’t care if you get it from Alice in Wonderland just make it consistent across ALL of them.

        2. “…. be an honest and knowledgeable man you claimed to be”

        I don’t claim to be knowledgeable I simply read what your learned who wasted their lives studying this crap says

        3. “…so are you saying those stories in the bible about blood sacrifices never happened according to your research ? are you saying Jewish people denied ever sacrificing any animal according to Moses Law? Or are you saying Moses is fake? Or Moses never gave those Law? If God gave the laws why do you call it pagan.. Do you decides what Pagan is or God decides ?…”

        God knows best. I am saying your understanding of God needs blood to forgive is pagan. The act of sacrifice in and of itself is fine its when heretics come saying this is the ONLY way that it becomes problematic. But again this is a deflection from your pagan worship of 2 idols.

        Liked by 3 people

      11. Larry

        I already said I will address everything you said including what you said about Christians worshiping 2 idols. Can you answer the questions that I ask if you agree say Yes if you disagree say no like you always do to other questions.. Why is it difficult for you to be straightforward? Is it because you don’t want to admit that those verses are truly from God? You don’t want to accept God have anything to do with Bible

        Like

      12. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1 “Can you answer the questions that I ask…”

        I did

        2. ” You don’t want to accept God have anything to do with Bible”

        He didn’t

        Liked by 2 people

      13. mr.heathcliff

        i will prove to u xtians worship two idols:

        Quote:
        *****
        Briefly, one knows that he has two different objects or ideas by the things that differentiate the one from the other. If you write of a being that has quality x, and, later, you write of a being that does not have quality x, even if the beings were never named, it is clear that two different beings are written about. They cannot be one.
        When writing of the Christian Father and Son, you write that the former cannot be seen and the second can. Essentially, you have stated that you have two different beings with either two different qualities or two different abilities. These are two different gods.
        *********

        This can be seen, too, from the way in which they relate to humanity. According to you, Jesus must mediate between the other Christian god and humanity. If this is due to the holiness of that other god, as I believe you would say that it is, then you say that Jesus does not have the same holiness as that god, the Christian Father. Jesus is more a demigod than a god. But, in any case, you have two beings having two different relationships with humanity. One of those beings facilitates a relationship between humanity and the other being. That you can see these things shows that this is not one god. Any attempt to call them one is nothing short of a lie.

        ////

        now lets see if the voices u heard in your head help u around this.

        Like

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