OPEN FORUM

Do you have something on your mind?  Do you need answers to lingering questions?  Or do you just need a place to engage with other people?  The new “Forum” page will serve as a place for visitors to make comments, start new discussions not related to any of the blog posts, make suggestions or just hang out.  If you want to participate, please abide by the following rules:   

  1. Respect the sacred.  No offensive comments about God, His prophets or His religion.
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  3. Respect other users. No abusing of fellow forum members. While comments will not be moderated, continued abusive behavior will result in the deletion of comments or the commenter being banned from the blog.
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3,847 thoughts on “OPEN FORUM

  1. mr.heathcliff

    “Was Mohamed bewitched or was it mental health problem? Quran 25:8”

    You such a filthy christian. Let me put on my skeptical hat. jebus fasted for 40 days and this starvation effected his mental capacity which made him think that satan entered him,took him to a mountain and showed him flat earth…..

    cleary your god starving made him have mental heath problems where he is talking to entities only he could see

    You see what a piece of scum you are?

    Was the prophet pbuh “bewitched” as adulterous dave and idolatrous sully????????? These guys did the acts …..

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Larry

      @ mr.heathcliff

      I hope you don’t take offence when I don’t reply you.. I cant afford to reply to everyone because of time and I believe @Stew and QB know more than you do so I assumed when I reply them you can always find answer to your questions.

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        when you do reply, i reply to your shit . so tell me, did jesus’ 40 days of fasting cause him mental issues in which he heard voices like you and caused him to see satan taking him up a mountain and view a flat earth?
        dirty larry!

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        dirty larry, lets expose your jesus further more :

        and here you have your own scholars saying that if “is of predicate” is used, then christians worship 3 gods!!!!!!!

        Liked by 1 person

      3. mr.heathcliff

        dirtly larry, stew quoted :

        When his family heard about this, they went out to take custody of him, saying, “he is out of his mind.” And the scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying, “he is possessed by Beelzebul,g” and, “By the prince of the demons He drives out demons.” ( Mark 3:21–22)

        now where do you think the jews thought of this? “he is out of his mind” ????

        quote:
        The word EXESTH literally means “to stand outside of oneself.” It is a phrase comparable to the English phrase “to be out of your mind.” In other words, it means “he has gone crazy.”

        Liked by 1 person

      4. mr.heathcliff

        By Allah just listning to the first 2 min of the video qb postes exposes u

        “I used to read salah”

        “I dont know what tashahud is”

        Ahhahaahahahhshwlollololololhajwhajqjwhhqwh
        Hahqhahhaahlolhahaha
        Hahawh

        Liked by 2 people

      5. mr.heathcliff

        “Lot’s daughters didn’t knowingly commit any sin do I need to show you again?”

        your god yhwh commmited the sin by not reminding them that their were plenty of men.
        its like you are on IRELAND and you just have your grandfather with you. you tell your grandfather “i have to eat you otherwise i will die”

        I KNOWINGLY know that there is food AROUND the corner and stay silent, who is at fault here?
        i speak to you on MOBILE PHONE , i tell dog like you,
        “hey don’t eat your dad, there is FOOD around the corner ”

        if i keep silent, its my fault for letting u eat your daddy, right? pig ?

        Liked by 1 person

      6. mr.heathcliff

        “I am not sure if I understand you .. are you asking why Hosea didn’t judge Gomer? ”

        larry, pig of jesus, whore of babylon.

        first i quote your god :

        Plead with your mother, plead—for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband—that she put away her whoring from her face, and her adultery from between her breasts, or I will strip her naked and expose her as in the day she was born, and make her like a wilderness and turn her into a parched land, and kill her with thirst. Upon her children also I will have no pity, because they are children of whoredom. For their mother has played the whore.

        what is this IMAGERY conveying, pig of jebis ?

        hoses is banging a PROSTITUTE yet he have to go and plee with israel about her whoring ways ?

        “If that’s the question… its not Hosea’s job to carry out judgment on people that sin… ”

        thats cause he been given the task to bang a prostitute?

        he BANGING a prostitute and at same time conveying the imagery from the text above ?

        he is telling them the judgement of yhwh you whore of babylon

        “They have King and authority to do that..”

        so what was job of hosea , bang a prostitute to show that israel hurt yhwhs feelings ? lol

        ” Hosea is just a prophet.”

        GETTING REVEALATIONS ABOUT ISRAELS promiscuous ACTIVITIES WITH OTHER DIETIES

        hosea was getting kind of horny in this situatio so he FORGED revealations to satisfy his sexual apetite

        quote :

        – but this time not for social and ethical iniquity but for failure to worship God properly. The people of Israel have turned to other gods, and Hosea declares they have “prostituted” themselves and will be severely punished for it.

        quote :

        In this case the problem is not principally that they have behaved in unethical ways and perpetrated social injustice and oppression. It is rather that they have rejected the worship of God and indulged, instead, in the worship of other gods. “My people consult a piece of wood and their divining rod gives them oracles. . . . They sacrifice on the tops of the mountains and make offerings upon the hills” (4:12–13). They have, in a sense, prostituted themselves, wantonly going after lovers other than Yahweh: “for a spirit of whoredom has led them astray, and they have played the whore, forsaking their God” (4:12).

        so hosea DECIDES TO FORGE A REVEALATION AND JUSTIFY banging a REAL life prostitute to convey yhwhs FEELINGS of hurt

        lol

        ” Like I said before the main reason God told Hosea to do what he did is because of the way the whole country has been living in sin”

        they were WORSHIPPING OTHER gods

        hosis FORGES REVELATIONS TO show them yhwhs FEELINGS , but in reality he wanted to have sex with a whore to satisfy his prostitute ways .

        so much IDOLATRY of israel, that hoses got horny and decided to LIE about yhwh and forge revealation to justify his lustful ways .

        ” and no one is doing anything about it. There is nothing for Hosea to judge if God didn’t tell him to marry Gomer He will not have anything to do with her and no where bible says Hosea like what Gomer was doing..”

        you dumb whore of babylon hoses LIKED banging a prostitute because of his lust for her. and what better place to do it then in a place where israel is practicingg idolatry and prostituting activities with other gods?

        Like

      7. mr.heathcliff

        “Every example or explanation that I gave is to prove that God is not partial and doesn’t have just 1 way of doing things….He can decides to punish 9 people out of 10 and leave the remaining 1 till judgement day”

        Why amaelite baby slaughter is not done in time of abraham and is done AFTER the time of abraham when jews wanted the land of israel?

        I mean if INNOCENT baby is slaughtered by the hebrews because of what amalekite ancestors had done, then baby slaughter is justifable at any time, but the disgusting yhwh LETS TWO WOMEN have sex with their father and avoid PUNISHMENT???? Amalekite kids get SMASHED for what sin? ur filthy god is disgusting.

        Like

      8. mr.heathcliff

        “REHMAN So now it’s okay for you if God commands something you think is sinful
        Killing and fighting people God called His enemy is not a sin,”

        yet lot does the crime of incest and david crime of adultery , yhwh plays tiddlywinks with holy spirit?

        “especially if God commands the killing/fighting … since when fighting/killing God’s enemy a sin in OT if you can show me then I will understand? ”

        dumb pig, WHEN did infants get identified as yhwhs “enemies” ?

        “So to answer your question in OT testament Killing or fighting enemy of God is not consider as a sin.

        LARRY “Exodus 4:23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.””

        QUOTE:

        21 And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: Israel is my firstborn son. 23 I said to you, “Let my son go that he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; now I will kill your firstborn son.’”

        24 On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the Lord met him and tried to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin, and touched Moses’[b] feet with it, and said, “Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!” 26 So he let him alone. It was then she said, “A bridegroom of blood by circumcision.”

        27 The Lord said to Aaron, “Go into the wilderness to meet Moses.” So he went; and he met him at the mountain of God and kissed him. 28 Moses told Aaron all the words of the Lord with which he had sent him, and all the signs with which he had charged him. 29 Then Moses and Aaron went and assembled all the elders of the Israelites. 30 Aaron spoke all the words that the Lord had spoken to Moses, and performed the signs in the sight of the people. 31 The people believed; and when they heard that the Lord had given heed to the Israelites and that he had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshiped.

        can someone explain to me the “point” this pig is making ? i dont understand

        “You are telling me to answer your question for you …Like I said according to your understanding and believe not according to what I think or mean… I am sure you know what Spirit .. soul and body is through .. Quran and other ways..”

        these are three parts which make up one being, is jebus part human or fully human ?

        Like

  2. Larry

    @QB
    Lol, Loonie Larry, the moron who thinks God talked to him, is talking about “bewitching” and “mental health problems”. Projection much?

    What’s good bro QB ? when are you going to upload the video pls? Or better still did you listen to it? I just want to be 100% sure of what one of the brothers was saying about miracles performed by Mohamed so important . If you have listened to it pls tell me if I am right he said we can only find the miracles in Hadith

    Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        Dirty larry, the atheist thinks jeebus was doing a benny hinn on his disciples

        Why u want stew and qb, they already made pot noodle out of u.

        Now i start with a question,

        Show me even one miracle jesus did in a village somewhere in galilee…

        And once u do, where is your evidence that it is not from the devil

        Liked by 2 people

    1. Hey clown, why are you so anxious to get humiliated again? Don’t worry. It will come soon enough. You see, you got wrecked by the brothers and your ignorance was on full display yet again. Now, even IF one of the brothers had said the Quran doesn’t mention any miracles (I haven’t gone back yet to check), that doesn’t change the fact that it does mention one in Surah al-Qamar, as we have shown already. The brother would simply be mistaken, you idiot. We don’t learn the tenets of our religion from only 1 person. We learn it by listening to the scholars and people of knowledge.

      Nevertheless, the brother completely destroyed you on this topic by getting you to admit that the Quran doesn’t say that Muhammad didn’t perform miracles. Without a clear statement like that, you have no case. Oops! 🤣

      And don’t call me “bro”. I’m not your “bro”. You are a dumb pagan who listens to voices in his head rather than logic and reason. I don’t consider such people to be my “brothers”. I just laugh at such people and their stupidity. 😂

      Liked by 1 person

    2. mr.heathcliff

      REHMAN …I’m sorry but WHAT?! We’re talking about infants here. Who can’t exactly be categorized as believer or disbeliever. And “if God commanded it”? …

      I don’t understand why you are particular about infant …. Killing is wrong in general … what difference does it make if you kill 95yrs old innocent man and 1hr infant baby?… I really don’t get your point about infant… according to God’s commandment not our emotion 6th com-mandment You shall not murder … it didn’t specify infant , adult or teenager.. You shall not murder.

      ////

      question : since the infant does not KNOW right from wrong

      Deuteronomy 1:34–40 NRSV – When the LORD… | Bibliahttps://biblia.com › bible › nrsv
      39 And as for your little ones, who you thought would become booty, your children, who today do not yet know right from wrong, they shall enter there; …

      your god COMMANDED the massacre of UNBORN and INFANTS

      “In case I am missing something here, can you tell me the difference between killing an infant and 100yrs innocent man?”

      obfuscation like a babylonian whore!

      read the bible :

      Deuteronomy 1:34–40 NRSV – When the LORD… | Bibliahttps://biblia.com › bible › nrsv
      39 And as for your little ones, who you thought would become booty, your children, who today do not yet know right from wrong, they shall enter there; …

      ” And to add bonus @Stew said that “You are assuming this a bad thing when it may be good simply because you don’t know the varia-bles. AN easy example is one of these children might grow up to be the next Hitler.”

      islam does not say that if person x will do crime y in future, then person x should be slaughtered:

      bible SPECIFICALLY says to PUNISH non-jews for what their ANCESTORS did 100’s of yrs earlier

      Now i will destroy you further.

      QUOTE:

      Clay’s blind trust in Deuteronomy 20:18 and in God’s alleged belief that the pagans would surely corrupt Israel if allowed to live next to each other, overlooks that Saul believed the Kenites worthy to be spared despite living so close to the doomed Amalekites (1st Samuel 15:6…did the Amalekites corrupt the Kenites by close living proximity? If so, then apparently, Saul believed a prior act of kindness from the Kenites overshadowed the fact that they were equally as deserving of death as the Amalekites

      QUOTE:

      That this was clearly the reason for the command is also shown in the next two verses, where Saul gave the Kenites safe passage out of Amalekite territory, because their ancestors had shown kindness to the Israelites on their way to Canaan.

      QUOTE:

      >2 Thus says YAHWEH of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. >3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'” >4 So Saul summoned the people, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand foot soldiers, and ten thousand soldiers of Judah. >5 Saul came to the city of the Amalekites and lay in wait in the valley. >6 Saul said to the Kenites, “Go! Leave! Withdraw from among the Amalekites, or I will destroy you with them; for you showed kindness to all the people of Israel when they came up out of Egypt.” So the Kenites
      withdrew from the Amalekites.

      ” God caused them to die so that they could be in Heaven etc” to him infant dying in warzone is could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven .. Do you agree with him?”

      REHMAN What difference does the era make?

      “Era of Moses is different from Era of Jesus …”

      you do not know the AMOUNT of corruption in the TIME of jesus VS the time of the moses, it is something you pulled out of your ass like all christians do

      ” Before the Era of Jesus God commands his peo-ple to fight against God’s enemies”

      How were the children who did not know right from wrong moses’ enemies?

      ” or people that disobey God. ”

      like?

      “During the Era of Jesus till now we are to forgive people and let God be the judge ”

      what? WHAT THE HELL did the infants do ? the bible says to pUNISH them not for what they would do in the FUTURE , but what their ANCESTORS did!

      “.. So if anyone kill anybody in the name of God now is committing a BIF FAT SIN.”

      Where does the bible say killing children is a sin? ?????

      Like

      1. Larry

        Lol you seems to know a lot about bible but still you don’t understand it. Read what I send to @Rehman again digest it more before you respond. You are quick to respond that’s why you always miss the point

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        You are a piece of shit, i am asking you for clarification u dumb whore or babylon.

        you make absolutely no sense

        help me understand your bs so i can continue to question u and expose you through questioning.

        Like

      3. mr.heathcliff

        “REHMAN …You can’t be serious… The difference is obvious. A 95 year old man can still attack and attempt to harm you or perhaps commit a sin worthy of death as odd and rare as that may be. In what world is an born infant able to harm others or commit sins that they may consider it justifiable to kill them?

        Lol it seems you are not playing nice anymore, I know you already said In principle you personally don’t have a problem with God as creator or his direct divinely appointed agents such as angels or prophets from taking the lives of infants and children, and this why I respect you…”

        why do you have a problem with pharoah taking the lives of innocent jewish children?

        ” I just want to respond in case of the people that is reading like @ mr.heathcliff… The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm… ”

        so pharoah could say the same about jewish children. why didn’t the jews , after KILLING AMALEKITE children turn the sword on their own children ?

        jewish children would grow up to do CRIMES WORSE than the nations israel drove out.

        “exactly the point no one know for sure if he will attack or attempt , same way no one knows if an infant will grow to become Hitler… Infant do grow they don’t remain infant forever ”

        the bible does not tell us anything about what infants who know not from good from bad would do in future u dumb s.ob

        “… Goliath was once an infant ..”

        so was moses, did his father know he would grow up and do his own father over????

        ” and lastly there is no difference in killing an infant and innocent 95yrs old man.. God’s commandment is You Shall not Murder…”

        EXCEPT if some one does crime x in the future, you can POUR YOUR wrath on the infant.

        “REHMAN 1.Unless I am mistaken there is NOWHERE in the bible where it says God orders the taking of an infants life due to the potential evil they would have committed. In fact you see the very OPPOSITE. God in the bible orders the killing or saving of a people based on what their ancestors did. see 1 Samuel 15:2-6.

        You right have not seen where it says that… to be honest it doesn’t really matter as we all know ,God is all knowing ”

        fkin pig, IT WAS A GRUDGE u dumb pig.

        “so if those infant will be come enemy of God tomorrow or not, He knows why He ordered it and again like what @Stew said it could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven . I am sure some of you must have seen this before Deuteronomy 5:9 the very first Commandment you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.”

        so your god is an evil scumb bag which means CHILDREN GET punished for the crimes of their PARENTS WHICH contradicts ezekiel

        “. So why do you think what God is doing is bad.. Do you know why Israelite was in Egypt for more than 400yrs? … Also if you read 2 Kings 24 you will see how God use King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to attack King Jehoiakim of Judah..”

        WTF are you tallking about ?

        “REHMAN The fact is it’s one thing for God, His angels, or even His prophets doing something on the one hand and his followers, the laypeople doing something on the other hand. In order to carry out a divine commandment to kill a human baby, one must either be a complete saint, or the very opposite—an unbalanced, mentally unstable person whose soul is given to evil inclinations. I don’t believe God can place burdens on us greater than we can bear. For God to make such demands of laypeople would be unjust, however, because it is indeed a burden greater than we can bear.

        “, But Samuel alone cant fight the whole Amalek if we were to go with only Angel and prophets should be able to carry out divine commandment …”

        where does the bible say that? jebus thinks he can take on a whole roman battalion through the help of angels lol

        “Lol nice try… We all know killing is a sin but like I said it depends ..”

        EITHER IT IS A SIN OR IT ISNT IDIOT.


        the people God ordered to be killed are his enemies and God already said in his first commandment Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me..”

        the text says nothing about amalek HATING your pagan satanic blood god.

        why your pagan pig of a god KILL children for the EMOTIONAL “hate” of amalekite ANCESTORS?

        Like

      4. mr.heathcliff

        “I just want to respond in case of the people that is reading like @ mr.heathcliff… The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm”

        i see that you didnt address anything i said, you further quoted verses expose you. i am still not understanding your bs

        Like

  3. stewjo004

    @ Looney Larry

    1. “…Before I reply to your response are you sure you are reading your Quran, Hadith and Tafsir very well? it seems you are not up to date about some things or you know the truth but you are just stubborn and don’t want to change…”

    Well, this is ironic coming from you the person who never quotes and tafseer except what he makes up…

    2. “…I like fact that everything you say is saved here and I have evidence of all your claims so when the time comes you cant say you didn’t say it…”

    Don’t recall ever doing this but…okay.

    3. “…I like the fact that you already know the video I was talking about, I know for sure you would have seen it but miss the point as always…”

    Never seen anything just morons who parrot him.

    4. “… If anyone of you see anything that does not add up in Islam will you question it?”

    Well I know that’s not the case because I researched the religion I converted to instead of following voices in my head so unlike you, I have a solid foundation to stand on.

    5. “…that seems you guys can see things that didn’t add up and you choose to ignore them…”

    No, we ALL really and truly think you’re a bumbling retard.

    6. “…I have some serious concerns about Mohamed, Quran and Islam as a whole…”

    Alright, shoot.If you’re respectful you ca get respect

    7. “…if you don’t care when Quran contradict itself…”

    It doesn’t.

    8. “…or Mohamed did Evil thing…”

    He (ﷺ)didn’t

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Larry

        You said I am a moron but I don’t know why You and Mustapha cant agree if the 2 miracles you claimed in the Quran is actually miracles performed by Mohamed.. Who is right now you or Mustapha ? I need to know pls to me it seems Muslims just pick whatever they like and associate it with Mohamed.

        Like

      2. 😂🤣 Moron, Mustafa embarrassed you in more ways than one. He got you to expose your ignorance of Islam and also that the Quran does NOT say that Muhammad DIDN’T perform miracles. 😂 You’re finished! You’re only good for comedy. Go worship your stupid mangod and enjoy hell. 🔥

        Like

    1. Larry

      You said you don’t ignore when you see things that don’t add up in Quran or Islam. I put it to you that Allah God of Muslims is the biggest Confusionist . Quran 4:157–158 claims Jesus didn’t die on the cross Allah made to appear he died on the cross to everyone that witnessed it. So if no one except Allah and Jesus knew that

      1. Why is it Christians faults to think He died and rose again? Allah God of islam confused them
      2. Why is Allah confusing believers about death of Jesus? All Jesus disciples believes he died on the cross, if truly Allah of Muslims is the same God of Abraham , why do that?

      3. Why is spirit of Allah meaning Isa of Muslim lying to people? Why did he told his disciples that he died and rose again? How can Allah and Isa lie?
      4. That means everything written after Allah made it to appear as if he was killed is all lies? Whenever Muslims quote any of the scriptures regarding what Jesus did after resurrection they knew it was all a lie?
      5. What is the reason of making it appear as if they killed him? Is it that Allah doesn’t have the power to make it so and raise him?
      6. Does that means Allah is doing Magic? Since what they thought happened didn’t , it was all illusion . I will leave it at this I can ask so many question just on that but I will still stop for now so that I can ask another question.

      Quran 33:50 Says if Mohamed sight falls on a woman, her husband must divorce her and Mohamed can marry that woman, What kind of God is Allah and what kind of prophet is Mohamed if they cant be Just/fair? How can a man I called prophet and I follow force me to divorce my wife because he fancies my wife. This is similar to what David did in bible and God punished him for it but when it comes to Mohamed its permitted.

      Quran 25:54 says A man can have sex with his daughter from adultery , How can a father be allowed by the permission Allah to have sex with his daughter of the same blood? Who cares if she is conceived during adultery does it change the fact that they have same gene?

      Quran 33:37 And How can a prophet snatched his son’s wife because he cant control his sexual urge ?

      I will stop here so that you can have time to reply in details.. I still have more concerns .. I don’t know How this person can be a true prophet.

      You can find all the claims in the Tafsir of al- Qurtubi https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/qortobi

      Like

      1. Larry

        I tried to explain to you guys so many time but it seems you just want to be like Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites in Matthew 23. You call me names and say you destroy me, how can you call this working for God?
        if you destroy me then how can I learn? lol if you continue with this kind of mentality trust me you are just letting devil take away your goal.

        Anyway let me show you what I was trying to explain to you and the other Muslim brothers when you ask me about tashahud and I said explain what it means maybe we call it something else in Nigeria or my native language and you refuse. I found out Tashahhud is also known as at-Tahiyyat, if you had said at-Tahiyyat I would have said yes to your question. Watch the first 5min this video you will see Ustaz from Nigeria that don’t know how to read Arabic and He has his own Radio show that people call in etc.
        With what I understand Ustaz means teacher so How can someone that claims to be Ustaz cant even read Arabic but you said because I don’t understand what you asked me then I was never a Muslim.

        You guys don’t know much I can tell by the way you engage me every time we debate.. you only know one side and fail to realise there are so many other sides. Maybe you are Arab or speak Arabic then you assumed every other Muslim around the world is like you lol.. Again I tell you there are millions of people in Nigeria than don’t even know half of what I know and they call themselves Muslim and pray 5times a day. My late grandma cant read or write and I am sure she didn’t know some of the things you asked me but she could be on the mat for 24hrs praying but yet you said I was never a Muslim lol . I feel sorry for a lot of Muslims in Africa.

        For your information I don’t care if you believe I used to be a Muslim or not its just that you lack some knowledge and you don’t know or maybe I am wrong maybe you are right all the people that thinks they are Muslim are not so far they don’t understand some things in Arabic

        Like

      2. Hey moron, don’t be a crybaby. You brought this on yourself. You morons only appeal to emotions and lies. We appeal to reason and evidence.

        And don’t think all African Muslims are as dumb and ignorant as you. If you don’t know basic Arabic terms, that means you were never educated. No wonder you were tricked by the voices in your head. Only a dumbo would do that. 😂

        Like

      3. Larry

        Well I am happy that I don’t follow that religion anymore.. I feel sorry for people that thinks they are Muslim but according to you they are not. What a waste of time and life . I will reply you about Lot , David and Abraham, I am just waiting for Stew to respond first, He said he will not ignore if he see anything bad in Islam or about Mohamed you didn’t so I don’t know if you don’t care about the truth. @ stew promise to address if there is anything bad in Islam

        Like

      4. Dummy, Stew already responded. You’re a clown and your pagan religion is a mess.

        Again, just because you were a useless moron when you were a…ahem…”Muslim”, doesn’t mean everyone else is. Don’t project your stupidity on others.

        Like

      5. Lol, we got a Christian princess fanboy, folks!

        You need to catch up, loonie. Christian princess was demolished by brother Farid almost 2 years ago. Since you waste your time Googling and watching cp videos, you will have time to go through this list of your master’s failures: https://quranandbibleblog.com/2019/12/13/progress-report-what-have-we-learned-about-christian-princess-aka-christian-dunce-so-far/

        Go through these videos and assess honestly. Remember. God sees your heart. I mean the real God, not your fake pagan one. 😉

        Like

      6. Larry

        CP did not write Quran or Tafsir and like I said I will wait to see what Stew will say.. He ignored some of the questions

        Like

      7. Cp is a liar, donkey. You know it explains so much about you now. We have dealt with many cprincess fans before. You guys are a bunch of brainwashed cultists. Make sure to go through the list, donkey. If you are honest, you will see what a fraud your master cprincess is.

        Like

      8. Oy vei, donkey. Watch the videos, you dope. Your cprincess is a liar. He misquotes the sources. Furthermore, as I keep asking you, did you read the part of Qurtubi’s tafsir that shows what he actually thought about the stories? Of course you didn’t, because you’re a cp donkey.

        Like

      9. Larry

        I am watching it … You really disappoint me with this video but I will wait till I finish watching it.. Can you read Arabic yourself? and I have told you I will reply I am waiting for Stew for final answer lol…. I don’t want you guys to get away with this one.. I will 100% reply you

        Like

      10. Hey donkey, until you can tell us what Qurtubi said in full, you’re barking up the wrong tree. Do you think we care what a donkey like you thinks? You think we care if you think we own you an answer?

        Deal with the disgusting things in your Bible, donkey. This will be funny.

        Like

      11. Hey dummy, how can you trust cprincess when be incorrectly claimed that Qurtubi stole the Black stone? He confused Qurtubi with the Qarmatians. How can you trust this moron who claimed that the word “Messiah” literally means “God”? These are just two samples of a long list of inaccurate things cprincess has said. Only idiots like you still think he is a “scholar”. 😂

        Like

      12. Larry

        Did I quote CP in my message ? why are talking to me about CP… and why cant you wait for stew and you see what I have got to say lol… its funny that you think I don’t know Muslims refute him.. the guy that you told me to watch is doing the same thing he accused CP of.. anyway did you watch the link I sent and Also Can you read Arabic?

        Like

      13. You donkey, you literally linked to a cp video! 🤦‍♂️ Plus, are you really going to lie and tell me you didn’t hear about Qurtubi’s tafsir from cp? You think I haven’t heard this from cp fanboys before?

        No, I didn’t watch the video. As soon as I realized you’re a fangirl of cprincess, it explained alot about your stupdity. 😂

        And no, I can’t read Arabic, and so I dk research and ask knowledgeable people, not Google things or learn from videos made by liars like your god cprincess.

        Like

      14. Lol, that makes you a bigger moron! Google translate is not an accurate tool for translating Classical Arabic! You pagans are comedy gold! 😂

        And I guess you missed the part where Qurtubi refutes these stories, right? You’re a donkey. No wonder Crosstianity is dying in the west. It’s a religion of emotions rather than intellectual arguments.

        Liked by 1 person

      15. Hey stupid, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) didn’t “snatch” his “son’s wife”. First of all, as any Muslim would know, Zayd was the ADOPTED son, not the BIOLOGICAL son. Second, his marriage with Zaynab was not a happy one and he wanted to divorce her.

        Third, even IF your accusations, which are beyond stupid, were true, how does that prove Muhammad (pbuh) was not a prophet?

        In your moronic Bible, Lot slept with his daughters. Abraham married his half-sister Sarah. David has a man killed and stole his wife. Yet all of these men are considered prophets by your moron Christians. What gives? 🤔

        Liked by 2 people

      16. Larry

        You are very funny, is the accusation true or not ? lol don’t give vague answer… anyway I am waiting for @ Stew to reply then I can respond

        Like

      17. 😂 Hey donkey, are you retarded? Oh wait, nevermind. Of course you are. Try to read, donkey.

        Unlike your accusations, the accusations against your donkey Bible are true. Did Lot not sleep with his daughters? Did Abraham not marry his half-sister? Did David not commit adultery and murder?

        Like

      18. stewjo004

        @ QB

        Wait Looney Larry didn’t know who Ibn Hazm (rh) was….but now can quote from Qurtubi? Right…

        “Methinks Loonie Larry was busy Googling these last few days…”

        Defintly was…

        Liked by 1 person

      19. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        “Quran 4:157–158 claims Jesus didn’t die on the cross Allah made to appear he died on the cross to everyone that witnessed it. ”

        This is a debated way to read the ayah but for argument’s sake I’ll go with it

        1. “Why is it Christians faults to think He died and rose again?

        Because they never verified the story from reliable sources. They parroted blindly from each other while each sect mixed in their own lies to deal with various theological issues/debates that arose in the Early Church.

        2. “Why is Allah confusing believers about death of Jesus? All Jesus disciples believes he died on the cross”

        That’s…just straight up not true. We have NO accounts about what happened to any of the disciples (ra) and no writings from them survived (assuming they were ever written) All that exists is Paul and his students (all known liars) versions of events and the LITTLE we have from the Jerusalem Church we know for a fact they didn’t believe like Paul (Google “Jewish Christianity” and “Ebionites” for more info)

        3. “Why is spirit of Allah meaning Isa of Muslim lying to people? Why did he told his disciples that he died and rose again? How can Allah and Isa lie?”

        He(as) NEVER said any of this the problem like in your question 1 is you blindly believe things without verifying how the source reached you in the first place. You, Larry, don’t even have the slightest clue on how the Bible was compiled or how the canon was established but you then go around claiming Jesus(as) said this and that hence the confusion.

        4/A. “That means everything written after Allah made it to appear as if he was killed is all lies?
        The majority of…more than likely

        4/B. Whenever Muslims quote any of the scriptures regarding what Jesus did after resurrection they knew it was all a lie?

        Even Christian scholarship hasn’t finished shifting through all the lies, exaggerations and distortions of Christians let alone Muslims. What we’re trying to do is put lipstick on a pig when it comes from quoting point out either an inconsistency or your own text believes like we do on a subject.

        5. “What is the reason of making it appear as if they killed him? Is it that Allah doesn’t have the power to make it so and raise him?”

        That was such a fallacy I don’t even know where to start. To begin God can raise the dead:

        “It’s only I who bring the dead to life. I record what they’ve sent ahead of themselves as well as what they’ve left behind and I keep account of everything in a clear Record.” (36:12)

        The reason for confusing them is because of their arrogance and disbelief in his(as) clear miracles he(as) performed. God says:

        “…He only misguides those who are disobedient and corrupt…” (2:26)

        They thought at the time by doind what they did that they want but this plot came back around and destroyed them as now in the Hereafter they will have to carry the sins of everyone who they misguided.

        6. “Does that means Allah is doing Magic?”
        No? That was…an interesting way of looking at that I guess. Assuming this is the way you want to read the ayah its a miracle and He can make you think whatever He wants if He desired.

        7. “Quran 33:50 Says if Mohamed sight falls on a woman, her husband must divorce her and Mohamed can marry that woman…”

        Lol, that is not what the verse says. Let’s read together:

        Prophet, I have made your wives, who you’ve given what is due and any concubines God has given you permissible. Along with your cousins on both your mother and father’s side, who migrated with you. As well as any believing woman who has offered herself to the Prophet and who the Prophet wishes to wed. This is however only for you and not the rest of the believers. Indeed, I know exactly what I’ve made obligatory for them concerning their wives and concubines, so you should not be blamed and there is no sin because God is Most Forgiving and Forever Merciful. (33:50)

        Where do you see a husband must divorce his wife in that verse?

        8. “Quran 25:54 says A man can have sex with his daughter from adultery”

        Lol, what? Here’s the verse:

        It’s He who created human beings from water, and then makes them family by either blood or marriage and your Lord is forever competent. (25:54)

        But let’s go ahead and knock this claim out while we’re here:

        “You are forbidden to take your mothers, DAUGHTERS…as wives” (4:23)

        This again is the theme of this conversation is you have no knowledge and parrot others blindly.

        9. “Quran 33:37 And How can a prophet snatched his son’s wife because he cant control his sexual urge ?”

        Again where does the verse say anything about “snatching” anyone up?

        “When you said to the man who was favored by God as well as you: “Hold on tight to your wife and stay God-fearing…” (33:37)

        The Prophet(saw) told him to keep his wife and to keep being a godfearing man.

        10. “I still have more concerns..”

        Hope not

        11. “I don’t know How this person can be a true prophet.”

        See and I find this so weird when Christians say this because in all honesty basically every prophet in the Bible is portrayed as the worst of humanity and general scum of the earth but I digress.

        Liked by 1 person

      20. mr.heathcliff

        “I tried to explain to you guys so many time but it seems you just want to be like Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus called hypocrites in Matthew 23”

        U ignorant baboon, mark says that the jews -all of them- washed their hands BEFORE meals

        Thats totally IGNORANT of jewish customs

        You are worse than mark in the sense that u didnt KNOw the BASICS of islamic salaah, this is how a kafir like u is caught out.

        thats jesus’ lying spirit in u

        There is no hypocrisy in exposing a liar

        Like

      21. mr.heathcliff

        “In order for me to attempt to answer your questions I need to know what you mean by “spirit” and “soul”. How do you define them? And how are they different from each other?”

        Bro, this is chasing down the rabbit hole ….please explain to me how his soul spirit nonsensical bs is addressing the following problem

        “How is an omniscient person existing as a fully blind human person?”

        This simple question is proving to be a difficulty for the holi ghost

        Like

    2. Larry

      3. …according to Quran everyone was in dark…” Present your evidence for this statement…

      This is my evidence Yusuf Ali Quran 4:157

      That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,
      and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
      but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not

      4 “…Allah caused confusion amongst them…” Simple question, who is the “them” in the verse? I know you don’t actually read religious text but try it sometime.

      Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers , I have said this more than once and I have told you again and again if you have an evidence to show that Allah only caused confusion amongst only disbelievers and believers knew he didn’t die show me.

      6. “… if truly Allah didn’t let the Jews and Roman kill Jesus and He appeared to his disciples after 3days claiming he rose from dead he is lying to them from the beginning of his Gospel
      For one the “book of John” is not his Gospel. next, as I said previously the book of John was written by some anomous heretics influenced by Philo. Again for some odd reason you blindly follow this text and I reallly can’t understand why.

      I didn’t ask if you believe in the Gospel of John.. According to bible after Jesus resurrect he appeared to his disciples and told them things to do. That means He lied to them about his death since Allah didn’t allow him to die and He didn’t tell his disciple he lied to them that He died and rose if we should believe what Quran said.

      7. “…people saw him died on the cross which supports other prophecies in Old Testament.”
      There are absolutely, positively NO “prophecies” in the entirety of the Hebrew Bible about him (as) dying on the cross (it’s the opposite in fact):

      Psalms 22 is one the Prophecy of crucifixion read it and you will see for yourself… I have more but I will leave you with that to prove to you he was meant to die on the cross but you said Allah didn’t allow him to die so again Christians didn’t know that.

      8. “…Allah is saying in Quran 3.55 am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection…”

      Yes the ones who believed him(as) as a prophet and messiah not some demigod (also note this verse is more than likely reffering to us)

      This is where you proof me right that you don’t know what you are talking about. According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God clearly they were not Muslim. If truly Quran 3.55 is talking about Muslims then it contradict its self in Quran 36:13 about sending 3 messengers to warn. According to Quran these 3 messengers are Jesus followers and Allah consider them to be his messengers . Again Quran acknowledge at least 3 of Jesus disciples but still Allah Confused them because We don’t have any evidence that shows they knew Jesus didn’t die even Quran didn’t say Allah told the believers so how can we proof that believers knew.
      Is Allah talking about Muslim or Christians in Quran 3.55?

      9. “…So the past 14yrs I believe those disciples would have told other believers that Jesus didn’t die on the cross if they knew and it would have been known by all the believers before Paul…”
      The Ebionites .

      Nice try about all the story of The Ebionites. I will just ask you this simple question since you are affiliating Islam with the The Ebionites, do you know The Ebionites don’t believe in Virgin Birth? How can they be trusted ? with that alone anyone that follows people like that I feel sorry for them and those are the people you claimed they preached that Jesus didn’t die?
      Its funny that Muslims keeps saying Paul is Fake… Ananias testify that Jesus has chosen Paul, if Paul was lying would Ananias not challenge him and if you want to say Ananias didn’t exist would people of the time not challenge him that who is Ananias that he was talking about , would Peter and other disciples not expose him?

      10. “… Out of these 11 disciples Quran mentioned Simon Peter to be true Disciple of Jesus…”
      Present your evidence for this statement…

      My evidence is Comentary of Ibn Al Kathir Quran 36.13
      (so We reinforced them with a third,) means, `We supported and strengthened them with a third Messenger. ‘
      Ibn Jurayj narrated from Wahb bin Sulayman, from Shu`ayb Al-Jaba’i, “The names of the first two Messengers
      were Sham`un and Yuhanna, and the name of the third was Bulus, and the city was Antioch (Antakiyah).
      Sham`un is Peter in English

      11. “… we have evidence that shows the people in Jerusalem that Peter taught the true Gospel of Jesus followed Pauls teachings…”
      Present your evidence for this statement…

      My evidence is 2 Peter 3:14-16
      Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace,
      without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as
      also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also
      in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
      which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

      12. ‘…regarding Quran 25:54 says A man can have sex with his daughter from adultery”
      It seems you don’t understand it but I guess QB does so I will respond to him…”

      No, you’re just retarded as I quoted the verse, here it is again:

      I told you my claim is from Tafsir al-Qurtub Quran 25:54, read it and you will see what I am saying.

      14. “…you people should thank God Mohamed is not alive your wives would have been in danger.”
      That’s really interesting you say that as you might be in danger if your man-god was alive as there is a theory he was gay and a man who has no desire to marry… just saying

      Loool nice try show me where it says a Prophet can take your wife if he likes her that in our Book , anywhere in our book but I already showed you in your book where it says Mohamed can get anyone’s wife I didn’t wrote it of send you a fake link

      15. “… Aisha said I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger and end it with It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire…She knew something is not right…”That was not the meaning of her statement you simpleton, she was having a semi playful jealous outburst with him.
      I have 2 wives and my second made a statement like this when I discussed getting a third it’s what women do. Again common sense here:

      Lol you are very funny @Stew A woman said she is Jealous because of the way women offer themselves to her Husband you said she was having a semi playful jealous outburst with Mohamed. she is JEALOUS period, no one want to share and do you know why its even worst because if a woman offer herself and Mohamed wants it her, He can get as many as he want so she is definitely not happy, that means any woman can just come and become his wife Lol come on so if 10 women offer themselves and he likes them he can have them and Aisha will be happy did you not see what see said at the end It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire to that’s not a joke I know women don’t like to share their men if they don’t have choice and not saying anything doesn’t mean they like it or enjoy it

      A. If she felt that why would she report it?
      Because she was not happy about it lol

      B. Their society already did polygamy so what “desire” is being “fullfilled”? Her father even did it.

      Muslims are allowed only 4 wives but Mohamed can marry more than 4 even he Had more than 4 wives so definitely He like women and she knew that also she doesn’t want a small beautiful girl offer herself to Mohamed because with that law Mohamed has a free pass

      C. He already had multiple wives and got married when he had a wife already. Again, you live in Nigeria and even though they have a tendency to treat their wives like mistresses nobody finds it “weird”.
      Why are you bringing my people into it? I hope you realise we have Muslims too in Nigeria so you are firing shots at your people too lol … I am just kidding You can say what you like about Nigerians so fat its true and Yes you are right there are a lot of people committing adultery in Nigeria but I don’t see what that got to do with Christianity …

      With everything you said and by trying to use Ebonite as a reference it says a lot about you and how you don’t understand what you are defending …If I ask you again why did Allah caused confusion amongst believers you will still not be able to answer because you don’t know and will not agree… I will say this to you and other people supporting you… if you know in your heart of heart that you are not sure about this Topic its better you stop deceiving yourself and try get answer… lot of things are tied to Jesus dying and resurrecting for you to just ignore the fact that you don’t know why Allah caused believers not to know the reason behind it shows you don’t love God but if you want to continue acting stubborn know that Larry don’t know your heart but God knows if you are lying

      Like

      1. “This is my evidence Yusuf Ali Quran 4:157

        That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,
        and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
        but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not”

        Goodness gracious you’ve officially reached the peak of stupidity, people like you is why I’m happy people are leaving Islam, Quality over quantity anytime

        Read the verse again

        “𝐖𝐞 𝐤𝐢𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐝 𝐂𝐡𝐫𝐢𝐬𝐭 𝐉𝐞𝐬𝐮𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐬𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐌𝐚𝐫𝐲 the Messenger of Allah but 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐲 𝐤𝐢𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐝 him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐦”

        We=they=them refers to those who killed him, even a 1st grader would get it at first try

        “those who 𝐝𝐢𝐟𝐟𝐞𝐫 therein 𝐚𝐫𝐞 full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
        but only conjecture 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐨𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐰”

        Not that it’s of any importance but where on earth do you see any past tense here? (It was referring to the then present-day christians and jews at the time of the Prophet). Even *if* there was where does it say that *everyone* were in doubt? lowly pillock

        https://quranandbibleblog.com/forum/comment-page-19/#comment-21446

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Larry

        What’s your point? Did I say anything different to what you just explained ? Did you actually read what I send to @ Stew ?

        Like

      3. mr.heathcliff

        “Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers”

        “Believers and non-believers”

        “They (believers and non-believers) did not kill him nor did they crucify him” ?


        , I have said this more than once and I have told you again and again if you have an evidence to show that Allah only caused confusion amongst only disbelievers and believers ”

        “Made to appear”

        Little gentile , WHO MADE it appear?

        There is no identification for the DOER

        the gospel writers MADE it appear so

        paul made it appear so

        “knew he didn’t die show me.”

        First u show me who witnessed jesus on a cross with their OWN eyes INSTEAD of mark making it APPEAR that unidentfied crowds and people looking from distance …name one witness

        2000 people saw eric flap his arms all the way to the moon

        andrew , john and steve were looking from a distance

        This means eric flap his arms all the way to the moon

        Liked by 1 person

      4. mr.heathcliff

        “What’s your point? Did I say anything different to what you just explained ? Did you actually read what I send to @ Stew ”

        Gentile dog, where is “them” all the people @cruciffixtion?

        Like

      5. @Larry toons,

        “What’s your point? Did I say anything different to what you just explained ? Did you actually read what I send to @ Stew ?”

        Dumb@$$

        “3. …according to Quran everyone was in dark…” Present your evidence for this statement…

        This is my evidence Yusuf Ali Quran 4:157

        That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them,
        and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge,
        but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not

        4 “…Allah caused confusion amongst them…” Simple question, who is the “them” in the verse? I know you don’t actually read religious text but try it sometime.

        Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers , I have said this more than once and I have told you again and again if you have an evidence to show that Allah only caused confusion amongst only disbelievers and believers knew he didn’t die show me.”

        Read my comment 50 times before replying

        Liked by 1 person

      6. Larry

        If you read all my msg to Stew probably you will understand but to make it easy for you. According to Quran who did Allah confused ? Believers or non believers or both ?

        Like

      7. You’ve gotten worse over the past 1 month….read again, i was responding to your “proof”, your question is of no importance to me

        Normally idiots get a tiny bit smarter with time but you’re the only case I’ve come across who’s evolving backwards

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Larry

        Lol ok did you read the part I told @stew Allah confused Believers and non believers at the time of the crucifixion? and he was trying to say it was only non believers? I still don’t understand what you are saying.. forget about what you send. Just answer my question who did Allah confused then I can tell you how you are wrong

        Like

      9. “I told @stew Allah confused Believers and non believers at the time of the crucifixion? ”

        Smh that was the whole point of my response dimwit, where on earth is it mentioned that the believers were confused too? You keep putting the onus on stew while you’re the one adding things here

        “Just answer my question who did Allah confused then I can tell you how you are wrong”

        What does your “proof” say?

        Liked by 2 people

      10. Larry

        Smh that was the whole point of my response dimwit, where on earth is it mentioned that the believers were confused too? You keep putting the onus on stew while you’re the one adding things here

        Lol I knew you didn’t read all the things I sent to Stew. I have explained why I said believers and non believers. I can’t be doing the same with you. It’s simple where does it say Believers knew what Allah did or who do you know that claimed to know it before Mohamed

        Like

      11. mr.heathcliff

        “According to Quran who did Allah confused ? Believers or non believers or both ?”

        this is why a little bastard like you has no shame. i asked you FOR the 3rd TIME ,where are you getting your claim that “ALLAH confused…” anyone?

        you like little BASTARD keep on repeating yourself.

        if you knew arabic, the word is in the MAJHOOL form and does not ATTACH a doer /role player

        it is you who is ADDING A DOER in the ACTIVE form “Allah confused…”

        but the arabic does not say this.

        Like

      12. “It’s simple where does it say Believers knew what Allah did”

        Err does your evidence say they didn’t?

        “I have explained why I said believers and non believers. I can’t be doing the same with you. ”

        Don’t worry you don’t need to, I already know it was bad enough for you to quote that verse as proof… I can only imagine the fictional straws you’re hanging on

        Liked by 2 people

      13. mr.heathcliff

        now tell me, can you tell me why you are like a liar repeating “ALLAH CONFUSED….” YOU shameless pleblian

        Like

      14. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers…”

        As Shim noted these are only the disbelievers, how can we tell? The context of this verse, this passage is talking about the crimes of the Jews and transitions to this passage:

        4:155. But because of THEIR breaking of the Covenant, THEIR rejection of God’s signs, THEIR murdering of the prophets without any conceivable right and them saying: “Our hearts are uncircumcised.” God has really sealed their hearts because of THEIR REJECTION, and they will only believe A LITTLE.
        4:156. As well as for their DISBELIEF and daring to utter a SLANDER against Mary,
        4:157. and they’re bragging: “We killed ‘the Messiah’ Jesus, the son of Mary, God’s ‘Messenger’.” They neither killed nor crucified him, it was only made to appear that way to them. Those who argue over it are full of doubts, and they have no definite knowledge to follow, only guesses and assumptions; but they were not certain if they killed him,
        4:158. rather God raised him up towards Himself. God has always been the Ultimate Authority and the Source of Wisdom.

        So the “them” is the disbelieving Jews as the Disciples(ra) did not kill prophets, slander Mary etc. So as usual poor reading comprehension on your part. But youve already admitted you don’t read religious texts so nothing surprising here.

        2. “I didn’t ask if you believe in the Gospel of John..”

        Nor do I care that you did. I am responding to this false point of yours (emphasis mine):

        “…He appeared to his disciples after 3days claiming he rose from dead he is lying to them from the beginning of HIS Gospel…”

        ^ This statement is a lie, the “book of John” is NOT his(as) gospel and can be proven using your text. Quoting here:

        “Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL OF GOD,” (Mark 1:14)

        And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people. (Matt 4:23)

        “And Jesus went throughout all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction.” (Matt 9:35)

        So Jesus(as) was teaching the “book of John” (or Mark, Matt or Luke) here? No he(as) wasnt.

        3. “…According to bible…”

        Nobody cares. Easly disproven, false book written by lying, heretics

        4. “…Psalms 22 is one the Prophecy of crucifixion…I have more…”

        Lol, I have and it is not talking about the crucifixion. Hence why I linked my article where I go through EVERY alleged prophecy claimed by Christians. Refute my article if you’re speaking the truth:

        The CruciFICTION Series: Part 3 – What the Prophets of Old Foretold

        5. “… According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God …”

        Not they diidn’t dumb@$$ I just quoted TWO early sects based on the Jerusalem Church that DID NOT believe he was your idol. Ebionites, Nazarenes and Jewish Christianity in general.

        6. “…According to Quran these 3 messengers are Jesus followers and Allah consider them to be his messengers…”

        This is completely untrue and I challenge you to show me where the Quran (not commentators) say this passage is in any way, shape or form about Jesus(as) and the disciples(ra). Furthermore, even if I went with this for argument’s sake, those sent were rejected and killed while the nation was destroyed:

        After him I did not send any type of army from heaven against his nation, nor was I about to.There was nothing but one piercing screech, and they were extinguished. (36:28-29)

        7. “…Is Allah talking about Muslim or Christians in Quran 3.55?”

        Muslims as we actually believe in him while you engaage in pagan worship.

        8. “… do you know The Ebionites don’t believe in Virgin Birth?”

        Do you know that the Ebionites were multiple sects that we conveintly group tigether in modern times and that they were divided on the subject?

        9. “…Ananias testify that Jesus has chosen Paul…”

        According to Paul’s student…

        10. “…My evidence is Comentary of Ibn Al Kathir Quran 36.13”

        That is a commentator’s opinion and has no proof behind it. Show me in the Chapter where the name Peter is, please. Don’t worry I’ll wait.

        11. “…My evidence is 2 Peter 3:14-16…”

        That is a circular logic fallacy. “The Bibull is true! How do you know? The Bibull said so!” It is not an authoritative text to us and it makes multiple verifiable historical errors so its a subpar book of history as well.

        12. “…I told you my claim is from Tafsir al-Qurtubi…”

        I don’t care what Qurtubi says. Here is the verse you’re claiming where does it say anything about adultery let alone incest? Don’t worry I’ll wait.

        “It’s He who created human beings from water, and then makes them family by either blood or marriage and your Lord is forever competent.” (25:54)

        13. Quick note I noticed you didn’t deny the idea that your man-god was a homosexual…

        14. “..she is JEALOUS period, no one want to share..”

        Says…who, your Roman idealogy? Again, I actually have 2 wives lol so how are you going to tell me? They joke like this in other spots because you never read their relationship you don’t know this.

        “Because she was not happy about it lol”

        That makes no sense. According to you, she would claim her husband is a false prophet in the empire he built on his teachings and nobody said or did anything? That’s interesting…

        “Muslims are allowed only 4 wives but Mohamed can marry more than 4 even he Had more than 4 wives so definitely He like women and she knew that also she doesn’t want a small beautiful girl offer herself to Mohamed because with that law Mohamed has a free pass”

        Even if that was the case, to begin a decent portion were political but the Prophet(saw) could have done away simpler thing than “lying” he could have…just extended the limit of wives for everyone.

        “…you are firing shots at your people too ”

        True I am part Nigerian on my father’s side. But the point is not Muslims or Christians, the point is the society of Nigeria no matter what your religion is engages in the practice of multiple wives. As it’s, commonplace nobody thinks it’s weird for a man to have multiple. Aisha (ra) grew up in a society where men have multiple wives so there’s no reason for her to think something negative as it’s a standard of the culture.

        15 “… lot of things are tied to Jesus dying and resurrecting …”

        I know hence why I wrote a whole series called the CruciFICTION disproving this false belief. Again read and refute me if you’re speaking the truth.

        The CruciFICTION Series: Part 1 – The Problem With the Gospels

        Liked by 2 people

      15. stewjo004

        @ Shim

        Uhhhh… nothing really but the dark recess of his mind. Here’s his post:

        “Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers , I have said this more than once and I have told you again and again if you have an evidence to show that Allah only caused confusion amongst only disbelievers and believers knew he didn’t die show me.”

        But I believe I have sufficiently countered his argument even though the onus wasn’t on me.

        Liked by 2 people

      16. @Stew, so this is what he calls an “explanation”? Amazing…take a deep breath Shim…take a deep breath…and my mom wanted me to be a teacher, I don’t have the patience for that…

        Liked by 2 people

  4. mr.heathcliff

    he left islam because he heard a translation in his head

    Which version?

    nrsv
    Esv
    Kings james
    Niv?

    u heard a translation “in your spirit” to make spritual idolatry with God …..

    Catholics SAW mary dance in the sky in presence of hundreds of people.

    Why the holi spirit selected a translation for, but showed catholics a visual?

    Liked by 1 person

  5. mr.heathcliff

    Okay larry,

    Tell me, where torah say that messiah will say:

    “No one comes to the father but through me”?

    The messiah job is to tell every one to seek god directly like king david did

    “God is close to those who sincerely call to him”

    The holy quran says that the jews read the book and come to different understanding:

    Salvation. Christianity teaches that sin has separated man from G-d, and the consequence of sin is death (Romans 6:23). The Christian bible goes so far as to say that only G-d can remove sin and deliver man from sin’s penalty (hell) (2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5). In the Jewish bible the term “salvation” only refers to being rescued from physical danger. Salvation has nothing to do with our immortal souls. We are not separated from G-d — indeed He is close to all who call upon Him. In D’varim / Deuteronomy 33:29 Moses said we are “a nation that has been saved by HaShem”) and Y’shayahu / Isaiah 45:17 says the Jewish nation “has been saved by HaShem”, adding that “this is an eternal salvation”). Note that, in both verses, the words used were “has been saved” or “continually being saved” — but again this is speaking of our physical existence — not our immortal souls which are perfect and do not need to be saved.

    ////

    So i ask, what need of ur pagan gods “sacrifice”

    When

    1. God is close
    2. He accepts deeds/works and repentance
    3. The jew thinks he is ALREADY saved
    ……..

    lol

    Like

  6. Larry

    @ stewjo004

    Looooooooooooooool Stew for a min I thought you were going to be honest with your response.

    Anyway You said they never verified the story from reliable sources and All that exists is Paul and his students all known liars

    Paul Didn’t write book of Mark, Matthew, Luke, 1 Peter. Why do you mention Paul alone and which Sources are you referring to please since Allah made it appear to them?.. who else knew about this plan of Allah that they can verify it from? do you have any reference that shows disciples at the time knew he didn’t die?.. I really don’t know why Muslims call Paul a liar if for some reasons your early scholars thinks he is Jesus disciple or God’s prophet to the extent He was mentioned in your book. I find it funny the way Muslims are eating their words, backtracking every time they see Mohamed is about to be expose.

    The reason for confusing them is because of their arrogance and disbelief in his(as) clear miracles he(as) performed. God says:
    “…He only misguides those who are disobedient and corrupt…” (2:26)

    There is no record of any of the disciples claiming Allah made it appear he died on the cross so with what you just said
    do you mean disciples are disobedient and corrupt too? is that why they didn’t know about this plan of Allah? or you mean they Knew but lied about it or is it bible that lied about it?

    They thought at the time by doing what they did that they want but this plot came back around and
    destroyed them as now in the Hereafter they will have to carry the sins of everyone who they misguided.

    Again disciples are not the one that crucify him but they didn’t know Allah made it appear as if he died so why are they in dark with this plan of Allah if they are not disobedient and corrupt?

    regarding Quran 25:54 , Quran 33:37 and Quran 33:50 I categorically told you I got my evidence from Tafsir al-Qurtubi lol..
    Are you pretending you didn’t see I mentioned Tafsir al-Qurtubi in other for you not to answer or are you ashamed?
    if I interpret Quran the way I want you say will I am wrong… Hadith didnt say that or Tafsir didnt say that.. Now I quoted what your Tafsir said you are pretending you dint see it lol…
    come on Why do you people like bad things so much? why do you see evil and pretend you didn’t see it? ever since have been on this forum you have never done this before that goes to show you knew what you were doing and you know deep down you are not being honest with your response to my questions

    Will you respond honestly or you are running away from answering the question.. read Tafsir al-Qurtubi which I believe you have before now and show me how I am wrong .. QB already said Qurtubi refute those claims I am just waiting for your honest response. Remember God can see you and your heart, Just because I cant see it doesn’t mean God cant see you.. Just say what you know …I know there are a lot of things out there that will refute the claims ,I just want your own honesty and Knowledge about the claims .

    Like

    1. Donkey, why are you braying about honesty, when you used Google Translate to inaccurately translate Qurtubi? Did you not see the part where he calls them mere stories and doesn’t say they are true? Admit it, moron. You Googled this nonsense without proper research.

      I’m waiting to see how you’re going to explain your Bible’s disgusting stories. There’s no way you can dismiss them as just stories. They are in your sick scripture. So you’re stuck with them. In contrast, you morons can only cherry-pick Islamic sources to find unreliable stories which the scholars of Islam have always rejected.

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ QB

        At this point in the game I don’t even think Larry knows what he’s quoting because I’m looking through Qurtubi like “what the hell is he talking about?” But you already know how I feel about kuffar’s IQ…

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Larry

        And I guess you missed the part where Qurtubi refutes these stories, right? You’re a donkey. No wonder Crosstianity is dying in the west. It’s a religion of emotions rather than intellectual arguments.

        Qurtubi didn’t refute the story he only quoted what other people said regarding the story. Again you are doing the same thing you accused CP of doing .. You claimed Qurtubi refutes the story how can he refuse it? Was he alive during the time it happened ? he can only give opinion … lol QB you are very funny. Anyway if I am ask… Why are the scholars discussing if a man can sleep with his daughter or not and why cant we take the word of those that supports it? How do we know they are not right based on their theory and maybe they learn it from Mohamed .. you know what they say.. there is no smoke without fire…

        I’m waiting to see how you’re going to explain your Bible’s disgusting stories. There’s no way you can dismiss them as just stories. They are in your sick scripture. So you’re stuck with them. In contrast, you morons can only cherry-pick Islamic sources to find unreliable stories which the scholars of Islam have always rejected.
        Unlike your accusations, the accusations against your donkey Bible are true. Did Lot not sleep with his daughters? Did Abraham not marry his half-sister? Did David not commit adultery and murder?

        1. Bible didn’t say Lot slept with his daughters lol it was his daughters’ that slept with him Genesis 19:30-38. looool see pot calling kettle black.. you are doing it again and you are calling CP out.. I will put all the bible reference below when I finish . I am sure you know he was drugged by his daughters which goes to show that they knew it was wrong and also they knew Lot will not do it unless they made him drunk and he doesn’t know what he was doing …lol so QB are you saying Mohamed doesn’t know what he was doing when he married his Adopted son or are you saying God gave Lot permission to sleep his daughters ?

        2. Abraham married his half-sister but I didn’t see anywhere that says God told him to do that also the incest laws was given by Moses and surely this is way before Abraham so if there is no law that says you cant do it.

        3. David committed adultery with Bathsheba in 2 Samuel 11 and as you already know God punished him for that in 2 Samuel 12, So let see the difference again God punished David because there is a law that says don’t kill and don’t covet thy neighbour’s wife also you see why bible didn’t say God punished Lot or Abraham because they didn’t commit any sin. David could have covered up what he did and announce it that everyone can do the same take anyone’s wife Just like Mohamed did when want Zaid’s wife.

        MR QB can you see the reason why Aisha said It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire? Imagine if Aisha knew 10 commandment and what Happen to David I wonder what she would have said and done even the followers of Mohamed.. lol I don’t need to wonder you people knew and you still think is right lol

        I hope have answered your Question MR QB.

        Genesis 19:30-35

        30 Then Lot went up out of Zoar and dwelt in the mountains, and his two daughters were with him; for he was afraid to dwell in Zoar.
        And he and his two daughters dwelt in a cave. 31 Now the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man on the earth
        to come in to us as is the custom of all the earth. 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve the
        [f]lineage of our father.” 33 So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father,
        and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

        34 It happened on the next day that the firstborn said to the younger,
        “Indeed I lay with my father last night; let us make him drink wine tonight also, and you go in and lie with him,
        that we may preserve the [g]lineage of our father.” 35 Then they made their father drink wine that night also.
        And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

        2 Samuel 11:2-5

        Then it happened one evening that David arose from his bed and walked on the roof of the king’s house. And from the roof he saw a woman bathing, and the woman was very beautiful to behold. 3 So David sent and inquired about the woman. And someone said, “Is this not [a]Bathsheba, the daughter of [b]Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” 4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her, for she was cleansed from her impurity; and she returned to her house. 5 And the woman conceived; so she sent and told David, and said, “I am with child.”

        2 Samuel 12:15-18 I will advice you read the whole chapter 12

        The Death of David’s Son
        And the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became ill. 16 David therefore pleaded with God for the child,
        and David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 So the elders of his house arose and went to him, to raise him up
        from the ground. But he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 Then on the seventh
        day it came to pass that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead.

        Like

      3. Donkey Larry finally works up the courage to discuss his Bibull’s disgusting stories! But first, let us talk about Qurtubi:

        “Qurtubi didn’t refute the story he only quoted what other people said regarding the story. Again you are doing the same thing you accused CP of doing .. You claimed Qurtubi refutes the story how can he refuse it? Was he alive during the time it happened ? he can only give opinion … lol QB you are very funny. Anyway if I am ask… Why are the scholars discussing if a man can sleep with his daughter or not and why cant we take the word of those that supports it? How do we know they are not right based on their theory and maybe they learn it from Mohamed .. you know what they say.. there is no smoke without fire…”

        🤣 What a donkey! They were simply talking about the legal aspect of it. But as Stew already showed, the Quran clearly forbids incest between a father and his daughter. Just because a few scholars said it was permissible doesn’t make it a firm rule. The majority of scholars said it was not permissible and they have Quranic evidence for it. End of story, you donkey! Try to use your head instead of listening to morons like cprincess et al.

        “Bible didn’t say Lot slept with his daughters lol it was his daughters’ that slept with him Genesis 19:30-38. looool see pot calling kettle black.. you are doing it again and you are calling CP out.. I will put all the bible reference below when I finish . I am sure you know he was drugged by his daughters which goes to show that they knew it was wrong and also they knew Lot will not do it unless they made him drunk and he doesn’t know what he was doing …lol so QB are you saying Mohamed doesn’t know what he was doing when he married his Adopted son or are you saying God gave Lot permission to sleep his daughters ?”

        LOL!! What a donkey! “Lot didn’t sleep with his daughters…his daughters slept with him”. 🤦‍♂️

        Let’s read the commentaries, shall we, donkey? According to the famous Jewish commentator Rashi, the original Hebrew text indicates that Lot was aware once the eldest daughter got up after having intercourse with him: ““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]”” (http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8214#showrashi=true)

        Plus, where did they even get the wine from? Rashi explains: ““[w]ine was made available to them in the cave, to make it possible for two nations to emerge from them.””

        LOL!! So God provided wine for them as part of his plan to get them pregnant by their father! And here is the best part: even the Christian church father Irenaeus admitted that Lot’s incestuous relationships was made possible by “divine arrangement”, though he claims that Lot was “unaware” (but as we saw, Rashi explains that he was aware): “This had happened without Lot’s knowledge and without his having been a slave to pleasure; it was accomplished wholly by DIVINE ARRAGEMENT, through which the two synagogues born from one and the same father, without carnal pleasure, were evoked. For there was no one else who could give them vital seed and the fruit of children, as it was written.” (https://catenabible.com/gn/19)

        So, the god of the Bible ARRANGED for all this! LOL!! What kind of disgusting god do you worship, donkey Larry?

        “2. Abraham married his half-sister but I didn’t see anywhere that says God told him to do that also the incest laws was given by Moses and surely this is way before Abraham so if there is no law that says you cant do it.”

        LOL!!! So Abraham married Sarah, his “half-sister”, and your best argument is that your stupid god didn’t actually tell him to do that? And he needed a law to tell him not to do it? LOL!!!

        Your god was fully aware of his incestuous marriage, yet he NEVER said one word to condemn it! In fact, he defended Abraham’s marriage to Sarah and DEMANDED that Abimilech return Sarah to Abraham. We read in Genesis 20:6-7:

        “Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her. 7 Now then, RETURN THE MAN’S WIFE, for he is a prophet, so that he will pray for you, and you shall live. But if you do not return her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”

        So your god was perfectly FINE with half-siblings marrying each other. He didn’t seem too concerned! 🤣

        “3. David committed adultery with Bathsheba in 2 Samuel 11 and as you already know God punished him for that in 2 Samuel 12, So let see the difference again God punished David because there is a law that says don’t kill and don’t covet thy neighbour’s wife also you see why bible didn’t say God punished Lot or Abraham because they didn’t commit any sin. David could have covered up what he did and announce it that everyone can do the same take anyone’s wife Just like Mohamed did when want Zaid’s wife.”

        LOL, you lying donkey! Your silly god “punished” David by killing his innocent son, thereby contradicting his OWN law, which was that adulterers were to be stoned to death AND that the children CANNOT be killed for the sins of their parents! Ezekiel 18:20 states:

        “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”

        Ding! Ding! Ding! So the god of the Bible was a hypocrite who let an adulterer off the hook by killing an innocent child. This was a miscarriage of justice!

        And to make it worse, donkey Larry, your god LET DAVID KEEP BATHSHEBA AS HIS WIFE, and they had a second son, Solomon. So in the end, David got to stay in his illegal marriage! You clowns and your disgusting Bibull are a joke.

        “I hope have answered your Question MR QB.”

        You answered nothing, you moronic pagan. 😂 All you showed was that you were frantically Googling for an explanation and were unaware of what the Bibull actually says.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Let’s make it worse for donkey Larry. When his god sent Nathan to reprimand David for stealing Uriah’s wife, he said this:

        “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.” (2 Samuel 12:8)

        So, Yahweh said that if David wanted more wives, he could have gotten them, because. Yahweh would have given them to him! Lol! Talk about fulfilling desires! Yahweh was ready to give David a literal harem, and it was good and legal. 🤣🤣

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Larry

        QB QB QB lol before I start responding to your new question , can you tell me if you agree with me Lot and Abraham’s situation is different. Abraham didn’t not covet his neighbour’s wife nor did Lot commit adultery .

        Let’s make it worse for donkey Larry. When his god sent Nathan to reprimand David for stealing Uriah’s wife, he said this:
        “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.” (2 Samuel 12:8)
        So, Yahweh said that if David wanted more wives, he could have gotten them, because. Yahweh would have given them to him! Lol! Talk about fulfilling desires! Yahweh was ready to give David a literal harem, and it was good and legal

        You are very funny QB I am 100% sure you are smarter than this.. I am not talking to you about number of Mohamed’s wife here I am talking to you about his covetous way, that is why you are trying to drag Abraham and Lot into this.. come on man lol..

        Regarding (2 Samuel 12:8) God was saying to David how much his has blessed him and if he had wanted more He would have giving him more without sinning . You need to get that part clear WITHOUT SINNING .. there is something GOD call SIN… which when it comes to Mohamed Muslims seems to think its alright and Allah if fine with SIN so far its Mohamed committing it…. so if David wanted more wives as you said God could have made it possible without sinning even though that’s not what the verse meant but lets go with your theory . And that’s the main reason God punished him even though God love David so much but God doesn’t like SIN .

        In Conclusion David covet his neighbour’s wife Uriah and God punished him for it , there is no law at the time that says how many wife they can have which would have made what you said about God promising more wives to David unjust .. God never said to them at the time it’s a sin to marry certain number of wife. So again I want you to understand what Mohamed did is covetous which is a sin 10 commandment but for some reason Allah allowed him to do so same way his followers don’t see anything bad in it. Again I go back to what Aisha said It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire. Meaning if Mohamed want to covet his Lord will make it happen quickly,, that’s someone that knew something is not right but she couldn’t wrap her head around it.. she was deceived like so many others but her brain still function to know when somethings is fishy . like I said before if she was alive today and have some knowledge about the only true God she would have known Mohamed is a fake prophet that just out to get whatever he wants/greedy .

        I hope you understand the difference between the two now.

        Like

      6. 😂😂 Donkey Larry, this is pathetic, you clown! Lot knew what he was doing! So did Abraham, and your disgusting god was a party to it! I know this is embarrassing, but this is your Bibull, a disgusting fairytale book written sexually depraved heretics. Is this what you believe

        Answer my question, you donkey: why did your god “arrange” for Lot to sleep with his daughters? Why was he cool with Abraham marrying his sister?

        None of this filth is in the Quran or Sunnah. We don’t believe these disgusting stories. They are pornographic fairytales, which morons like you believe.

        Regarding David, you donkey, the point is that your god was MORE THAN willing to satisfy David’s lusts, and even in the case of Bathsheba, he let David KEEP her! They were adulterers. They should have been STONED to death as per the law. Instead, your stupid god hypocritically spared David, killed an innocent child as “punishment”, let the adulterous union stay intact, and violated his own laws!

        And you donkey, your god also allowed David to be covetous! By not having him killed for adultery, and letting him stay with Bathsheba, your dumb god was letting David’s covetousness slide.

        David even acquired booty and wives through his raids, killing innocent people. And yet your god had no problems with that. This is how sick and disgusting your evil god is.

        In contrast, all of Muhammad’s marriages were legal. Moreover, he was not allowed to marry other women, and even though this was later abrogated, he STILL didn’t marry anyone else.

        I hope your donkey brain understands how.😂😂

        Like

      7. And donkey Larry, you exposed your ignorance of your Bibull again. There was a law banning kings from acquiring many wives! Deuteronomy 17:17 says it clearly:

        “And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold.”

        😂😂 You’re such a donkey. No wonder you became a Christian. Ignorance and stupidity appeal to you.

        Like

      8. Larry

        Lol I was waiting for you to quote that verse… I was going to refer you to the verse before but I just don’t want to bring it up thinking maybe you understand it but I guess you are trying to set a trap looool… I will respond you later .. and pls if you can click on reply so that the message comes to me directly ..I don’t want to miss anything from you and Stew

        Like

      9. Lol, yes go ahead and Google for your answer, donkey. 🤣😂 And don’t forget to explain why your filthy god “arranged” for Lot to impregnate his daughters and allowed Abraham to marry his sister. Don’t run away from that.

        And also don’t run away from explaining why your hypocrite god violated at least 4 of his own laws regarding David. Okay, donkey Larry?

        Liked by 1 person

      10. It gets worse for you Donkey Larry. According to Rashi, David could have had up to 18 WIVES!!

        “ולא ירבה לו נשים NEITHER SHALL HE MULTIPLY WIVES TO HIMSELF only eighteen, for we find that David had six wives, and it was announced to him (by Nathan the prophet): “[Thus saith the Lord … I gave thy master’s wives into thy bosom] … and if that had been too little, I would add unto thee such and such as these (i.e.
        twice as many)” (Sanhedrin 21a).

        🤣🤣

        And Solomon ended up having HUNDREDS of wives, but your god was silent. Even when Solomon became a pagan, your god let him off the hook and didn’t punish as the law required. Your god let the powerful and rich get off the hook.

        Liked by 1 person

      11. mr.heathcliff

        can the pig larry show where in the torah it is forbidden to have sex with your unmarried female neighbour ?

        quote:

        It would seem that porneia in perspective of the OT should include adultery, homosexuality, incest, prostitution, and exogamy. It would definitely not include polygamy, concubinage, casual sex (at least for men), or adultery of a betrothed slave.

        Liked by 1 person

      12. mr.heathcliff

        Here is the concluding paragraph from Bruce Malina, “Does Porneia Mean Fornication?”, Novum Testamentum 14/1 (Jan 1972):

        To sum up: porneia means unlawful sexual conduct, or unlawful conduct in general. What makes a particular line of conduct unlawful is that it is prohibited by the Torah, written and/or oral. Pre-betrothal, pre-marital, non-commercial sexual intercourse between man and woman is nowhere considered a moral crime in the Torah. Aside from the instance of R. Eliezer, there is no evidence in traditional or contemporary usage of the word porneia that takes it to mean pre-betrothal, pre-marital, heterosexual intercourse of a non-cultic or non-commercial nature, i.e. what we call “fornication” today.

        hey larry, say i wanted a nice time with my neighbours daugher who was not married, in the torah this would be perfectly fine, right?

        Liked by 1 person

      13. mr.heathcliff

        quote:
        But the text says Yahweh gave Saul’s wives (plural) to David.
        Not all of them were Michal’s mother. Only one, in fact. This isn’t
        hard to reconcile. So either Ahinoam was dead, or God gave all of
        Saul’s wives, excepting Ahinoam, to David. Enough said. But his
        first argument is the one that really displays Copan’s capacity to
        grasp at straws.

        Cautioning his readers not to take the terminology of “giving
        wives” too literally, he calls attention to the same word in 2 Samuel 12:11, in which God tells David that he would “give” his wives to his son Absalom. This, argues Copan, is clearly not evidence that God approves of polygamy, since the giving of David’s wives
        over to a traitor is (apparently) hard to imagine (115).

        On the contrary, it only reinforces the fact that these texts assume Yahweh gives multiple wives as a blessing. What verse 8 clearly says is that God gave David many wives as a blessing, and what verse 11 clearly says is that God will take away that blessing
        in order to punish David. Yahweh isn’t giving Absalom David’s
        wives because he approves of Absalom; he’s giving them away
        because he (currently) disapproves of David. To wit: Yahweh gives
        and takes away the blessing of many wives. The many wives are
        assumed here to be a sign of David’s greatness. “If that had been
        too little,” Yahweh says, “I would have added much more!”

        Liked by 1 person

      14. mr.heathcliff

        “Lot’s incestuous relationships was made possible by “divine arrangement”,

        What yhwh bound together let no man break.

        let them become “one flesh”

        Liked by 2 people

    2. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      ” I will wait to see what Stew will say.. He ignored some of the questions”

      Definitely didn’t. Literally quoted each section of your post but people have questioned your intellect around here for some time so I’ll remain quiet. I will quickly note that you ironically skipped a lot of my stuff but whatever….’

      1. “Paul Didn’t write book of Mark, Matthew, Luke, 1 Peter.”

      I know hence why I said “his STUDENTS” please see the point above. Paul’s stuff was first then the other texts were influenced hence why it’s known as “Pauline Christianity” There is NO text (other than maybe Hebrews) in the NT that is not influened by Pauline Christianity.

      2. “which Sources are you referring to”

      I’ve linked it several times not doing it again

      3. “do you have any reference that shows disciples at the time knew he didn’t die?”

      What part of we HAVE NOTHING from them is so difficult for you to understand? Zip, zilch, nada, nothingness. The few surviving beliefs we have recorded are at complete odds with your theology and agree with Islam for the most part.

      4. “I really don’t know why Muslims call Paul a liar ”

      Because he is.

      5. “your early scholars thinks he is Jesus disciple or God’s prophet to the extent He was mentioned in your book”

      Not early scholars for one. Next, the world did not have “globalization” and did not have the access to works etc. Hence why you see scholars who actually heavily interacted with Christians like Ibn hazm said “yep Paul was involved in hte changing of the religion”

      6.”There is no record of any of the disciples”

      Again there is no record of the disciples period.

      7. “you mean they Knew but lied about it or is it bible that lied about it?”

      The Bible. To begin Muslims are not bound by this “illusion” interpretation of the ayah. I take Zamakshari’s position (slightly modified) that the meaning is they kept repeating stories until they were unsure of what really happened.

      8. “Again disciples are not the one that crucify him but they didn’t know Allah made it appear as if he died so why are they in dark with this plan of Allah if they are not disobedient and corrupt?”

      As noted above, I don’t take the “illusion” interpretation and next, I wasn’t referring to the Disciples but the Jews in general (which is common sense as I said “disbelief” and the disciples clearly believed in Jesus(as) please see point 1)

      “regarding Quran 25:54 , Quran 33:37 and Quran 33:50 I categorically told you I got my evidence from Tafsir al-Qurtubi lol..”

      For one he didn’t say ANY OF THAT dumb@44 and two I literally just quoted the ayah and NONE of them say that. For example, 25:54 isn’t even in the ballpark of what you claimed but it’s no shocker as you clearly don’t read. But it’s cool we’re going to go through Qurtubi together:

      25:54
      I’m not even going to look this one up as the verse isn’t even about adultery period.

      33:37
      Just mentions the story of how him and Zaynab(ra) married nothing weird.

      33:50
      In this verse Qurtubi discusses how the prophet was not allowed to marry any new women after the revealing of this verse but was he allowed to divorce them. He then actually says the OPPOSITE of what you just claimed (rough translation):

      فعلى هذا تكون الآية مبيحة جميع النساء حاشا ذوات المحارم .

      “(this) verse makes it permissible for (him) all women, BARRING those with mahrams (relatives like brothers and husbands who can’t be married)”

      He then basically discusses how the wives were happy he wasn’t allowed to marry more women etc. But anyways he does not say any of this crap you claimed.

      9. “Are you pretending you didn’t see I mentioned Tafsir al-Qurtubi in other for you not to answer or are you ashamed?”

      Not ashamed he didn’t say any of this dumb@$$ and this is why everyone thinks you’re a moron.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Larry

        which Sources are you referring to” ? I’ve linked it several times not doing it again

        How can you claim to have a link that shows Allah’s plans regarding crucifixion? Quran clearly state it was made to appear to them that he was killed so no one knew he didn’t die except for Allah. If you claim its referring to Jews leaders and Romans, what about his disciples and other people that was present at the time crucifixion ? if they knew he didn’t die why did they bury him? How come the corps of Jesus replacement was not found in the tomb? why didn’t they preach it to others?

        What part of we HAVE NOTHING from them is so difficult for you to understand?

        Exactly my point there is nothing to show that Disciples and other Christians knew Jesus didn’t die, so according to Quran everyone was in dark, there is no where in Quran that says we made it know to the disciples or other believers that he didn’t die, Allah caused confusion amongst them and that goes to show that every Muslim that claims Jesus was talking about Mohamed in the book of John don’t know what they are doing. if truly Allah didn’t let the Jews and Roman kill Jesus and He appeared to his disciples after 3days claiming he rose from dead he is lying to them from the beginning of his Gospel and Allah is a confusionist . In other hands we have bible to support the fact that people saw him died on the cross which supports other prophecies in Old Testament.
        Again Allah is saying in Quran 3.55 am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection that means at the time crucifixion some people actually believe in Jesus such as Disciples and other believers ,if what Quran is saying is true we have established with Quran that at least minimum of 11 people believe in Jesus and those went on to preach what they know to other people for at least 14yrs before Paul claimed he met Jesus , So the past 14yrs I believe those disciples would have told other believers that Jesus didn’t die on the cross if they knew and it would have been known by all the believers before Paul. Out of these 11 disciples Quran mentioned Simon Peter to be true Disciple of Jesus and this same Peter met with Paul , if Peter knew for the last 14yrs Jesus didn’t die He would have had disagreement with Paul on his account of Jesus crucifixion or informed him of it.. why don’t we have anything that says they had disagreement on it and why would believers that have been listen to teachings of Peters and other disciples now listen to Paul if at all Peter and other disciples disagree with him.. You are banking on there is no written evidence that shows Allah reveal or he didn’t reveal to disciples Jesus didn’t die but we have evidence that shows True believers preach true Gospel for at least 14yrs before Paul which means they would have taught people that Jesus didn’t die another man was put in the tomb etc and we have evidence that shows the people in Jerusalem that Peter taught the true Gospel of Jesus followed Pauls teachings if what Paul said to them regarding the crucifixion is different to peter’s why would anyone listen to Paul and why is it that we don’t have Jews saying this claims instead on debunking the resurrection of Christ.. Jews could have quoted Peter if they heard him teaching that Jesus didn’t die. Till today Jews still claim Jesus died and didn’t resurrect so its obvious that through 2 different religions and beliefs we can see there is no where it says any of the disciples claimed Jesus didn’t die.
        Christianity believes Jesus died and rose from death from the time of crucifixion till today no where else Christians deny this or says otherwise and Judaism have nothing to gain in lying for Christians from the time of Crucifixion till today there no claim from them about Disciples claiming Jesus didn’t die, it would have been the joy of Jews to hear Disciples says that because it would have supported their theory of Jesus cant raise himself or didn’t resurrect.

        I hope you know now there is no way the disciples would have known that Allah made it appear to Disbelievers that Jesus died and made it known to them ( Disciples ) that he didn’t die we would have heard it before today from reliable source.
        So again I put it to you that Allah confused true believers . why the confusion ?

        regarding Quran 25:54 says A man can have sex with his daughter from adultery” It seems you don’t understand it but I guess QB does so I will respond to him

        Quran 33:37 And How can a prophet snatched his son’s wife because he cant control his sexual urge

        You said it Just mentions the story of how him and Zaynab(ra) married nothing weird.

        To you its not weird, but to me and any God faring person its weird that A prophet flirting with his Adopted son’s wife or marrying her lol anyway according to you adopted don’t mean anything. how can a prophet be flirting with someone else wife and you said its not weird.
        before Zayd divorce his wife Mohamed flirt with the wife and she told her husband it was after that Zayd went to tell Mohamed he doesn’t want the wife anymore and you said that’s not weird ,

        If you say that didn’t happen but Quran says Mohamed concealed within himself that which Allah is to disclose Quran 33:37. Does that means Allah already told Him I will give you the wife of your Adopted Son or Mohamed already know if He want any woman Allah will make it happen. Any how you want to put it that is pure evil. What kind of God is Allah that gives another believers wife to Prophet? Does Allah not know she is not good for Zaid allowing them to get married Or Allah want Zaid to sleep with her for sometime then later transfer her to Mohamed? How is this making sense to you? If the adopted son is dead I can understand but NO he is well and Alive. Muslims always claims they follow Moses law but 10 commandment says Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife. Isn’t that what Mohamed did? lol you people should thank God Mohamed is not alive your wives would have been in danger.

        Tell me if in the Tafsir al-Qurtubi didn’t say the Tenth thing that Mohamed is allowed to do is : If his sight falls on a woman, her husband must divorce her, and her marriage to her.

        Again you asked why its wired.. Even according to Aisha she thinks Mohamed is dodgy when it comes to women in Sahih Muslim 1464a Aisha said I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger and end it with It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire.
        She knew something is not right and that is someone over 1000yrs ago that thinks like that and with all the knowledge that you have today regarding Mohamed and women also 10 commandment you didn’t see anything wrong in that?

        Like I said Muslims don’t Question any Evil done by their prophet or Quran. They Just accept everything . I pray God will have mercy on all of you

        Like

      2. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “How can you claim to have a link that shows Allah’s plans regarding crucifixion? ”

        Never once said this, but at this point, I’ve accepted that your comprehension is basically nonexistent

        2. “Quran clearly state it was made to appear to them that he was killed so no one knew he didn’t die except for Allah. If you claim its referring to Jews leaders and Romans, what about his disciples and other people that was present at the time crucifixion ? if they knew he didn’t die why did they bury him? How come the corps of Jesus replacement was not found in the tomb? why didn’t they preach it to others?”

        Never said this either please see the point above

        3. “…according to Quran everyone was in dark…”

        Present your evidence for this statement…

        4. “…Allah caused confusion amongst them…”

        Simple question, who is the “them” in the verse? I know you don’t actually read religious text but try it sometime.

        5. “…every Muslim that claims Jesus was talking about Mohamed in the book of John…”

        I don’t, so there’s the end of that claim

        6. “… if truly Allah didn’t let the Jews and Roman kill Jesus and He appeared to his disciples after 3days claiming he rose from dead he is lying to them from the beginning of his Gospel…”

        For one the “book of John” is not his Gospel. next, as I said previously the book of John was written by some anomous heretics influenced by Philo. Again for some odd reason you blindly follow this text and I reallly can’t understand why.

        7. “…people saw him died on the cross which supports other prophecies in Old Testament.”

        There are absolutely, positively NO “prophecies” in the entirety of the Hebrew Bible about him (as) dying on the cross (it’s the opposite in fact):

        The CruciFICTION Series: Part 3 – What the Prophets of Old Foretold

        8. “…Allah is saying in Quran 3.55 am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection…”

        Yes the ones who believed him(as) as a prophet and messiah not some demigod (also note this verse is more than likely reffering to us)

        9. “…So the past 14yrs I believe those disciples would have told other believers that Jesus didn’t die on the cross if they knew and it would have been known by all the believers before Paul…”

        Just like how they preached he was a prophet? That’s great you arbitrarily chose 14 years when the earliest source is 30 years after the events in question. Paul preached to Roman pagans while, the Disciples preached to the minority of Jews who believed in Jesus(as) Because this is the era before phones and TV, Paul is establishing churches preaching his evil doctrines and when the Jerusalem Church is destroyed in the sack of Jerusalem any “line” or “narrators” from this end are also destroyed. His churches not in Jerusalem continue on fighting each other and survve until the modern day, Again we have recordings of their church’s beliefs and they UNIVERSALLY called Paul an apostate. Let’s read:

        “The Ebionites (from Hebrew; אביונים, Ebyonim, “the poor ones”) were an early sect of Jewish followers of Jesus that flourished from the first to the fifth century C.E. in and around the Land of Israel.[1] In contrast to the dominant Christian sects that viewed Jesus as the incarnation of God, the Ebionites saw Jesus as a mortal human being, who by being a holy man,[2] was chosen by God to be the prophet of the “Kingdom of Heaven.”[3] The Ebionites insisted on following Jewish dietary and religious laws,[4] and rejected the writings of Paul of Tarsus.[5] Thus, Ebionites were in theological conflict with the emerging dominant streams of Christianity that opened up to the Gentiles…The Fathers of the Church distinguished between the Ebionites and the Nazarenes, another early sect of Jewish followers that thrived from around 30 to 70 C.E. It is believed that the Nazarenes were one of the earliest Christian churches in Jerusalem or, properly speaking, the first “Judeo-Christian synagogue” built on Mount Zion between 70 and 132 C.E.[12] While many Fathers of the Church differentiated between the Ebionites and the Nazarenes in their writings, Jerome clearly thinks that Ebionites and Nazoraeans were a single group.[13] …Scholar James Tabor… argues that Ebionites rejected doctrines and traditions, which they believed had been added to Mosaic Law, including scribal alterations of the texts of scripture; and that they had a greater interest in restoring the more anarchist form of worship reflected in the pre-Mosaic period of Judaism.[1]… Ebionites regarded the Desposyni (the blood relatives of Jesus) as the legitimate apostolic successors to James the Just (the brother of Jesus), and patriarchs of the Jerusalem Church, rather than Peter.[1] Furthermore, Ebionites denounced Paul as an apostate from the Law and a false apostle. Epiphanius claims that some Ebionites gossiped that Paul was a Greek who converted to Judaism in order to marry the daughter of (Annas?) a High Priest of Israel, and then apostatized when she rejected him.[19]”
        https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ebionites

        So there is an idea of what the Disciples church looked like as they were “preaching for 14 years” and isn’t that weird that they’re saying the same thing we are before Paul got on the scene and spread everywhere? 🤔🤔🤔

        10. “… Out of these 11 disciples Quran mentioned Simon Peter to be true Disciple of Jesus…”

        Present your evidence for this statement…

        11. “… we have evidence that shows the people in Jerusalem that Peter taught the true Gospel of Jesus followed Pauls teachings…”

        Present your evidence for this statement…

        12. ‘…regarding Quran 25:54 says A man can have sex with his daughter from adultery” It seems you don’t understand it but I guess QB does so I will respond to him…”

        No, you’re just retarded as I quoted the verse, here it is again:

        It’s He who created human beings from water, and then makes them family by either blood or marriage and your Lord is forever competent. (25:54)

        Where does this verse even talk about adultery let alone incest? Don’t worry I’ll wait…

        13. “…before Zayd divorce his wife Mohamed flirt with the wife and she told her husband it was after that Zayd went to tell Mohamed he doesn’t want the wife anymore and you said that’s not weird…”

        Present your evidence for this statement…

        14. “…you people should thank God Mohamed is not alive your wives would have been in danger.”

        That’s really interesting you say that as you might be in danger if your man-god was alive as there is a theory he was gay and a man who has no desire to marry… just saying 🤷
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus

        15. “… Aisha said I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger and end it with It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire…She knew something is not right…”

        That was not the meaning of her statement you simpleton, she was having a semi playful jealous outburst with him. I have 2 wives and my second made a statement like this when I discussed getting a third it’s what women do. Again common sense here:

        A. If she felt that why would she report it?
        B. Their society already did polygamy so what “desire” is being “fullfilled”? Her father even did it.
        C. He already had multiple wives and got married when he had a wife already. Again, you live in Nigeria and even though they have a tendency to treat their wives like mistresses nobody finds it “weird”.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Larry

        Let me start by saying this, I am not a bible scholar and also I have said this before I don’t like going to the argument of Bible contradict or Quran contradict its just waste of time… What anyone should care about is which way is the true way to Heaven….if by a chance there is something in the bible or Quran that contradict what God stands for then we can talk about it..

        But talking about John said 11 Luke said 10 that is pure waste of time at the end of the day what both are saying is Jesus resurrect which that is what matters. If one says Jesus died and the other says He didn’t die then that a problem …I am not a scholar.. there are so many books to read in other for one to be sure who is right and who is wrong which I am not planning on doing but if you need a dance partner go to https://www.bethinking.org/did-jesus-rise-from-the-dead/q-dont-the-resurrection-accounts-contradict-each-other they have answers for you and I believe you can challenge them, or if you want me to find more sites for you..

        I cant and will not waste my time on this kind of stuff anymore before I became Christian I have done it and Like I said before I have found out Christians have so many things to say about Quran too. So to me that is a strategy for Devil to waste people’s time on stupid argument. even with the series you wrote I can see how you kept on quoting so many people that you don’t even know if they know what they are saying but Muslim scholars that you know if I quote them you say will its there opinion you don’t care and you yourself I will show you very soon how you are not even sure of yourself .

        I don’t mean if you see something that contradict each other in bible you cant talk to me about it for example if bible say Peter rape his daughter and God said well-done my servant … that clearly goes against what we know God stands for so things like that its up for discussion .. but not someone says 6am and the other said 9am.

        With your Series you said some of the guys that you quote said there is no way Jesus would have been crucify for just calling himself Son of God and Also you said Pilate could not have listen to the Jews when they asked him to crucify Jesus because he was no push over and he didn’t find Jesus guilty and Also Jew don’t crucify people…. What is the point of all this? The only thing I can think of is you are trying to say that event recorded in bible didn’t Happen and that will make your Quran a Liar… this is one the reason I don’t like talking to people about all this theory of contradiction when the person talking about it is even contradicting himself

        5. This is what I said According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God …”
        This is what you said Not they diidn’t dumb@$$ I just quoted TWO early sects based on the Jerusalem Church that DID NOT believe he was your idol. Ebionites, Nazarenes and Jewish Christianity in general.

        But again in your series you wrote the followings below

        The son of God in the Jewish context has nothing to do with being divine. It is simply used as a claim to King David’s
        (peace be upon him) bloodline. This comes from the following verses in the Psalms:“I will proclaim the LOR
        D’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father.”[19]
        The Jews as a nation are also called the “son of God”, [21] and the king is called the “son of God” because he represents and embodies the people.[22] As Geza Vermes explained (emphasis ours):
        Son of God’ occurs in a variety of meanings. In addition to the angels already discussed, among the humans ‘Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God. Every male Israelite could pride himself on being a ‘son of God’

        1. According to what you wrote you confirmed that Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God eg Jesus
        2. Matthew 27:41-43 Non believers said He called himself Son of God if they can say that how can you say according to bible believers didn’t know this too?
        Likewise the chief priests also, mocking with the scribes and elders, said, 42 “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him. 43 He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He said, ‘I am the Son of God
        3. Matthew 14:33 and Matthew 16:16 and so many other verse show that his disciples knew..

        . “…Is Allah talking about Muslim or Christians in Quran 3.55?”
        Muslims as we actually believe in him while you engage in pagan worship.
        Again you are proving me right more and more that you don’t know what you are saying this is what you said earlier before
        So the “them” is the disbelieving Jews as the Disciples(ra) did not kill prophets, slander Mary etc. So as usual poor reading comprehension on your part. But you ve already admitted you don’t read religious texts so nothing surprising here.
        As you can see you agreed that the disciples are believers you even put Radhi Allahu, you claimed Allah only confused non-believers So how can you think Allah is talking to Muslim in Quran 3.55? when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me that’s what Quran 3.55 says did Allah caused Jesus to ascend twice? I thought it happened only once during Crucifixion so if Allah said what he said to Jesus at that time I am sure Allah was saying setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection meaning Setting Disciples above disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection.

        13. Quick note I noticed you didn’t deny the idea that your man-god was a homosexual…
        Its childish, you are putting emotion into it that’s why I didn’t reply first time around but since you are proving to me that you are not really sure of things you think you know… let me first show you why you shouldn’t be asking me to say anything about things like that as a Muslim , Muslims believe in Jesus and Christians believe in him too the only difference is We call him son of God, God. He died and rose etc but Muslims don’t believe those things about him…. So if anyone claims Jesus was homosexual should you be asking me that? Or did your Quran says Jesus of Christians is not the same Jesus of Muslims? Are they 2 different persons ?
        Another reason is it is not written in Bible or any Christian Book not even your Quran,

        14. “..she is JEALOUS period, no one want to share..” “Because she was not happy about it lol”
        That makes no sense. According to you, she would claim her husband is a false prophet in the empire he built on his teachings and nobody said or did anything? That’s interesting…
        Like I said before if Aisha is alive today and have all this knowledge about one true God ,she would have called him a fake prophet

        “…you are firing shots at your people too ”
        True I am part Nigerian on my father’s side. But the point is not Muslims or Christians, the point is the society of Nigeria no matter what your religion is engages in the practice of multiple wives. As it’s, commonplace nobody thinks it’s weird for a man to have multiple. Aisha (ra) grew up in a society where men have multiple wives so there’s no reason for her to think something negative as it’s a standard of the culture.

        You are so wrong again,,, just because at the time that’s the culture it doesn’t mean she likes it as you can see she said I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger.. so even though it’s a standard of the culture she still felt jealous and to be honest those women don’t have any choice in those days .. if they don’t want their husband to have more than one wife they can end up single …Also I hope you know the culture in western countries now regarding homosexual does that mean everyone that lives in western world likes it? NO but we have to accept it and tolerate it so just because something is the culture doesn’t mean everyone likes it.. that’s why what Jesus said make sense Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, ‘and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh

        15 “… lot of things are tied to Jesus dying and resurrecting …”
        I know hence why I wrote a whole series called the CruciFICTION disproving this false belief. Again read and refute me if you’re speaking the truth.
        I have read some of your series didn’t finish everything because I can see you yourself don’t know where you stand on what you are saying as I have mentioned above
        So going back to the crucifixion if we should go with your Theory of Allah only caused confusion amongst non believers where can we see where it shows Allah made it known to the believers that Jesus didn’t die? If you want to claim that he didn’t confuse believers ,,, can you show me 1 place in Quran that says during or after crucifixion Allah told the believers Jesus didn’t die? We Christians use Bible and there is nothing like that in it and Muslims use Quran so if Allah knows everything and He knows we Christians believes Jesus died on the cross and its written in our book that Allah condemned at least he should have made it clear How he made it know to the believers and that makes me wonder… How would he have done it though ? Allah spoke about Torah and Injeel that we don’t have the original and there is no way the information could have been in either of the two… Torah is way before crucifixion and Injeel is just before crucifixion so there is no way it could have been mentioned in any of the two… Do you know how Allah could have made it known to the believers ?

        Stew I am guessing you are either Yoruba or Hausa any which way as we say we both have something in common …. I want to advice you to change the way you are attacking this…. If you think something is a sin in Christianity do the same when you see it in Islam…. I can see how You, QB, some guys on this forum and one other guy QB brought on the zoom meeting last time always put emotion/ unjust into the conversation

        You said the point is the society of Nigeria no matter what your religion is engages in the practice of multiple wives… if everyone is doing something and it goes against God’s wish does it make it right because a lot of people do it… why do you be part of not a lot of people that don’t do it?

        QB bringing Lot that his daughters got drunk and Abraham that God didn’t tell him if he can or cannot marry his half sister and David that already admit he sinned against God and God punished him into the same category of Mohamed that I accused of coveting which is a sin… instead if him to ask me how did Mohamed covet he started trying to Justify why a man can commit sin and should be ok

        QB friend that came on zoom said I am delusion or hypocrite cant remember the exact word he used because I became Christian the same religion that the white people brought to Africa to enslave us.. if a white man use bible to coming crime does that mean that’s what Christianity stands for?
        Putting emotions to it is flesh and flesh can make us do wrong things ,,, you people need to know how to tame your flesh or else you will always make mistakes..

        Like

      4. 🤣🤣 Donkey Larry says he’s not a Biblical scholar…
        Well, you could have fooled me! 🤣
        But it doesn’t matter if you’re a scholar or not. The fact that you don’t even have a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible is proof that your “conversion” was not due to studying and using logic and reason. You converted because of psychological problems and the voices in your head. If anyone objectively evaluates the Bible, the only reasonable conclusion would be that that the Bible is not God’s word.
        Now don’t run away from the filth of your Bible. I demolished your pathetic defense of the Biblical god. He was totally cool with incest and violating his own laws to save his “chosen” David, even to the extent of killing an innocent child. This is not the God of Abraham. This is a fake god, created by morons like you. Now get to it. Explain your god’s failures and hypocrisies.

        Like

      5. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        1. “…Let me start by saying this, I am not a bible scholar…”

        Whaaaaaaat???? You don’t say?

        2. “…the argument of Bible contradict or Quran contradict its just waste of time…”

        I agree as it’s very clear that the Bible does. Like alot.

        3. “…What anyone should care about is which way is the true way to Heaven…”

        Agreed and if a text is inconsistent, contradictory and full of historical errors while being written by unknown authors we can be eliminate it from the list

        4. “….if by a chance there is something in the bible or Quran that contradict what God stands for then we can talk about it…”

        Cool. Genocide. The Bible promotes genocide.

        5. “…But talking about John said 11 Luke said 10 that is pure waste of time at the end of the day what both are saying is Jesus resurrect which that is what matters…”

        Yeah…and nobody cares because none of these authors were there.

        6. “…there are so many books to read in other for one to be sure who is right and who is wrong which I am not planning on doing but if you need a dance partner go to… they have answers for you and I believe you can challenge them, or if you want me to find more sites for you…”

        This site is typical Christian propaganda. For example it says:

        “…If all four Gospels gave exactly the same story, in exactly the same order, with exactly the same details, we would immediately become suspicious…”

        Lol, they do. We know for a fact Matt and Luke plagiarized from Mark.

        7. “..I cant and will not waste my time on this kind of stuff anymore before I became Christian…”

        Sounds like somebody’s faith is getting rocked in here.

        8. “…I can see how you kept on quoting so many people that you don’t even know if they know what they are saying …”

        Lol EVERYONE I quoted in my series are known, scholars. This is STANDARD stuff people who take higher education in Christianity knows but they just don’t tell ignorant laymen like yourself as it causes doubts.

        9. “…Like I said before I have found out Christians have so many things to say about Quran too. ”

        Except I quoted NO Muslims period and those Christians aren’t scholars lol.

        9. “…Muslim scholars that you know if I quote them you say will its there opinion you don’t care…”

        No, you simply misunderstood. For a scholar to say someone is being referred to but has no evidence from the Prophet(saw) or Allah it can be rejected. Again standard, known things in Islamic scholarship. Simple question where is Pau’s name in this pasage?

        “Give them the lesson of the people whose city those who were sent came to. I sent two to them but they called them both liars. So I then reinforced them with a third. They all said: “We are among those that have been sent to you.” (36:13-14)

        So how is the conclusion Paul or the Disciples when Jesus isn’ even mentioned in the entire chapter? Give me some indication that this story takes place in Antioch. There is NOTHING to indicate any this. Now if the Prophet(saw) said that, then I hear and obey but just a person with no evidence I don’t need to. The people who I quote, those are snippets of larger books or articles they wrote where they go in detail about how they came to their conclusion.

        It seems to me you read one article and couldn’t refute it so you’re trying to save face because you couldn’t take the heat in the kitchen.

        10. “…for example if bible say Peter rape his daughter and God said well-done my servant … that clearly goes against what we know God stands for so things like that its up for discussion…”

        Okay cool, why does your text promote genocide?

        11. “…With your Series you said some of the guys that you quote said there is no way Jesus would have been crucify for just calling himself Son of God and Also you said Pilate could not have listen to the Jews when they asked him to crucify Jesus because he was no push over and he didn’t find Jesus guilty and Also Jew don’t crucify people…. What is the point of all this? ”

        To show that the Bible is a fanfiction making up stories as it goes along. Again Jews do not consider calling one swelf the “Son of God” blasphemy (it’s a Davidic title) and the Romans wouldn’t care as according to the “gospels of” Jesus wanted everyone to be a loyal Roman subject.

        12. “…The only thing I can think of is you are trying to say that event recorded in bible didn’t Happen and that will make your Quran a Liar…”

        Lol what? How did you come to that conclusion. The Quran never claims the crucifixion event happened.

        13. “1. According to what you wrote you confirmed that Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God eg Jesus
        2. Matthew 27:41-43 Non believers said He called himself Son of God if they can say that how can you say according to bible believers didn’t know this too?”

        Again the “Son of God” basically means “claimant to the Davidic throne” that’s it. Here is again another Christian scholar to explain it to you man worshipper:

        https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-son-of-god-is-the-son-of-david/

        Nobody cares what Matt says. Simple question how do they know? I ask this over and over why you consider these texts reliable and you always ignore it.

        14. “..So how can you think Allah is talking to Muslim in Quran 3.55?”

        Not talking TO Muslims but ABOUT Muslims, genius.

        15. “…Like I said before if Aisha is alive today and have all this knowledge about one true God ,she would have called him a fake prophet…”

        One you ignored my point, two she interacted with Christians before dumb@$$, three she was a major scholar for Islam so…pretty unlikely.

        16. “…You are so wrong again,,, just because at the time that’s the culture it doesn’t mean she likes it as you can see she said I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger.. so even though it’s a standard of the culture she still felt jealous and to be honest those women don’t have any choice in those days…”

        First point, just because you grow up doesn’t mean you can’t be jealous of time to time. Everyone has jealousy that’s just an emotion like anger, happiness, fear etc. Also lol what is your evidence “women didn’t have a choice” we have ahadith where women have turned down the Prophet’s(saw) proposal so there’s that.

        17. “…if they don’t want their husband to have more than one wife they can end up single”

        Yeah, that limits your market like refusing to cook, clean, or have sex etc. Just the name of the game and not something intrinsic to polygyny.

        18. “…lso I hope you know the culture in western countries now regarding homosexual does that mean everyone that lives in western world likes it? ”

        Homosexuality is not really acceptable in mainstream society. It’s ony got as far as it did because LGBTQ worked active propaganda it’s just not considered acceptable to criticize. But this doesn’t work for polygyny because MOST human societies on this planet (84.57% according to the Human Atlas) engaged in it

        19. “…that’s why what Jesus said make sense…”

        Actually no it’s retarded. There is more utility in polygyny than monogamy (especially for agricultural societies) and again that’s why the MAJORITY of humans engaged in it showing that your religion is not even natural.

        20. “… If you want to claim that he didn’t confuse believers ,,, can you show me 1 place in Quran that says during or after crucifixion Allah told the believers Jesus didn’t die?”

        One I clearly demonstrated that the disbelievers were being spoken to in the passage and two the onus is on you to prove your claim.

        21. “…We Christians use Bible and there is nothing like that in it…”

        And the 1,000,000$ question for the 100th time what is your basis to show this text is reliably able when even its resurrection accounts the cornerstone of your religion are known as the most contradictory parts of the “gospels of”?

        22. “…Stew I am guessing you are either Yoruba or Hausa..”

        More than likely Igbo/ Fulani

        23. “…if you think something is a sin in Christianity do the same when you see it in Islam….”

        Doesn’t exist. Again why does your text greenlight genocide?

        24. “…You said the point is the society of Nigeria no matter what your religion is engages in the practice of multiple wives… if everyone is doing something and it goes against God’s wish does it make it right because a lot of people do it… ”

        Agreed but your text neither bans the practice and clearly encouraged it (David(as), Abraham(as)) calling it a blessing, and then all of the sudden when it mixes with Romans who have this idealogy of “monogamy” (while still screwing slaves on the side) all of the sudden your text “magically” promotes it (through your interpretations)….hmmm… 🤔🤔🤔

        25. “…instead of him to ask me how did Mohamed covet…”

        Easy because he(saw) didn’t. So how did Mohamed covet?

        26. “… if a white man use bible to coming crime does that mean that’s what Christianity stands for?”

        Lol yes, they literally justified colonialization through the Bible due to the “Curse of Ham” in your text that claims we are to be theirs and the Jews’ slaves. This is the problem with the Bible it is morally horrible and promotes this kind of stuff.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. mr.heathcliff

        “If all four Gospels gave exactly the same story, in exactly the same order, with exactly the same details, we would immediately become suspicious…”

        Now we will show the world this filthy menstrual rags dishonesty.

        Guess what. If it can be demondtrated that the gospels

        1. Using same wording and order and even reproduce SAME order when they contradict, WILL u be suspicious?

        Liked by 2 people

      7. @Larry

        1. Still waiting for you to point out where on earth does your evidence imply that the disciples were kept in dark too, I’m bored rn so please make it quick

        2. “Exactly my point there is nothing to show that Disciples and other Christians knew Jesus didn’t die, so according to Quran everyone was in dark, there is no where in Quran that says we made it know to the disciples or other believers that he didn’t die”

        Smh

        Your logic basically works like this

        Nothing=something

        Quran doesn’t talk about it=ergo it means everyone was kept in the dark

        0 evidence=0 substance=1 argument

        Ergo you have no basis, you are adding to the text….Onus is on you to bring a proof

        3. Again, even if the disciples were kept in the dark then what would be the implications of it? Would it matter? Why? Coz as I pointed out before it wouldn’t be a creedal matter of misguidance to them compared to the Jews. It would be of no significance to the believers period.

        4. “Them is all the People at the time of the crucifixion believers and non believers , I have said this more than once and I have told you again and again if you have an evidence to show that Allah only caused confusion amongst only disbelievers and believers knew he didn’t die show me.”

        So you call this an explanation, ok I already laughed at it but tell me how does that change everything that I verbalized before you asked me to read it? You could’ve just told me that you have no answers to my points instead of making me waste my time.

        Liked by 2 people

    3. “The reason for confusing them is because of their arrogance and disbelief in his(as) clear miracles he(as) performed. God says:
      “…He only misguides those who are disobedient and corrupt…” (2:26)”

      “Again disciples are not the one that crucify him but they didn’t know Allah made it appear as if he died so why are they in dark with this plan of Allah if they are not disobedient and corrupt?”

      1. How do you know they didn’t know? Do you have their writings?

      2. Even if *hypothetically* speaking they didn’t know then that means nothing, I’m damn sure the death of Isa A.S didn’t mean anything to their faith which was Islam instead a lowly man-worshipping pagan cult focused around the death of a deity….whether they thought he died on the cross or he didn’t was of no importance to them nor was it important enough to be a matter of guidance or misguidance in terms of their Aqeeda, this poses no conundrum to Islam or to what the Quran says

      Liked by 2 people

      1. mr.heathcliff

        mark is very anti peter gospel. It always portray him in a negative light. there clearly is indication within mark that peter and the disciples were not willing to die for pauls dying and rising messiah

        Liked by 1 person

      2. mr.heathcliff


        For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.”

        mark is making it CLEAR IN his gospels the disciples are not willing to die for pauls dying and rising pagan god-man.

        Liked by 1 person

  7. mr.heathcliff

    “you mean they Knew but lied about it or is it bible that lied about it?”

    If paul knew someone who had known jebus was crucified all he had to do was NAME the witness, easy. But what does paul do? he tells u his SOURCE is the ot, lol

    None of the early epistles name any witness to this crucifixtion thing, why not?

    Wouldnt it.be as easy as quoting old testament ?

    Liked by 1 person

  8. mr.heathcliff

    8. “Again disciples are not the one that crucify him but they didn’t know Allah made it appear as if he died so why are they in dark with this plan of Allah if they are not disobedient and corrupt?”

    Liar, it does not say ” Allah made it appear”

    On the other hand, mark USES hebrew bible like paul to MAKE it appear that the messiah was killed by pagans.

    Actually, crosstians been making it appear for OTHER people, i quote:

    Simon the Zealot
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
    One tradition states that he traveled in the Middle East and Africa. Christian Ethiopians claim that he was crucified in Samaria, while Justus Lipsius writes that he was sawn in half at Suanir, Persia. However, Moses of Chorene writes that he was martyred at Weriosphora in Caucasian Iberia. Tradition also claims he died peacefully at Edessa. Another tradition says he visited Britain— In his 2nd mission to Britain, he arrived during 1st year of Boadicean War 60 AD. He was crucified May 10, 61AD by the Roman Catus Decianus, at Caistor, modern-day Lincolnshire, Britain

    Bartholomew
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
    He is said to have been martyred in Albanopolis in Armenia. According to one account, he was beheaded, but a more popular tradition holds that he was flayed alive and crucified, head downward.

    Philip the Apostle
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
    According to this account, through a miraculous healing and his preaching Philip converted the wife of the proconsul of the city. This enraged the proconsul, and he had Philip, Bartholomew, and Mariamne all tortured. Philip and Bartholomew were then crucified upside-down, and Philip preached from his cross. As a result of Philip’s preaching the crowd released Bartholomew from his cross, but Philip insisted that they not release him, and Philip died on the cross. Another legend is that he was martyred by beheading in the city of Hierapolis.

    It seems that different churches were trying to make their favorite saint more noble than the saint of the next church. Churches lie all the time but the martyred saints are what happens when churches get into a lying contest.

    End quote

    Quran says COMPETE WITH each other in doing good, christians been competing with each other in lies

    Liked by 1 person

      1. stewjo004

        @ Shrek

        Okay found it now, take everything as a grain of salt from Ibn Ishaq but assuming it’s true, yeah basically. The dude was a commander leading the coalition of mushrikeen forces after the conquest of Mecca. He was a major leader for Taif (another big city) and his conversion would help break up resistance in the area and stabilize the region. You see similar things like with the Prophet’s (ﷺ) marriage to Juwariyya (ra) pacifying the chief makes the rest of the tribe fall in line so it was actually a pretty smart move from the Prophet (ﷺ).

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Shriek

        Alright ty ty also who initiated the battle?can u tell me ur view of this guy is kinda retarded but like i wanna hear ur side of this: Answer to If the Quran was compiled after Muhammad’s death, what detailed and complete book (Al-Kitaab) was he referring to in Sura 6:114 – 115? by Mike Muluk

        Like

      3. Ugh, why do you continue to read nonsense posts from stupid non-Muslims and then get confused and ask for help? Shouldn’t you be learning about the Quran from qualified people?

        The answer to this dumb question is very simple. The Quran was MEMORIZED during the Prophet’s lifetime by his followers. Just because it wasn’t “compiled” doesn’t mean there was no “book”.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. stewjo004

        @ Shrek

        Gotta agree with QB always remember all kuffar are retarded and there’s no benefit in reading or watching this stuff. If it’s not answered you have doubts and if it’s answered you are right back where you started with no improvement. But now to answer:

        1. Battle of Hunain

        As for who initiated, really it was phase 2 of the conquest of Mecca so you could say Quraish because their allies broke the initial treaty of Hudaybiyyah. We have a tendency to think after Mecca was conquered that the Prophet’s (ﷺ) life was over but there’s still like 2 years left. Taif (this is the city that stoned the Prophet (ﷺ) and he prayed for their children to become Muslim) were in a “frenemy” relationship with Mecca. When Mecca was conquered and Quraish defeated Taif gathered their allying tribes together in a final big “idol worshiper coalition” to try and make a comeback (remember Muslims were officially a big powerhouse at this point and were finally fielding the bigger army as opposed to being outnumbered) So Mecca conquered, Taif responds with a coalition led by Malik (ra) who does a big “high risk, high reward” strategy of bringing everyone’s livestock, women and children along to make their side fight harder and not run away. The Muslims were bragging about their larger side finally so Allah humbled them by making them get ambushed by the kuffar in the beginning of the battle, the Prophet then does a rousing speech getting the army back into formation and they do a counter charge routing the kuffar (this is where that part from ibn Ishaq comes in at where he makes the offer to Malik(ra) to become a Muslim for his family back) and Allah comments on this battle in Surah Taubah:

        “Allah has helped you on many battlefields, even on the day of the Battle of Hunain. You were happy with your large numbers, but they were of no use to you. The earth seemed to close in on you despite its vastness, and you turned around and ran away. Then Allah sent His tranquility onto His Messenger and the believers. He sent down armies you couldn’t see and tortured those who didn’t believe because that’s the compensation for the disbelievers. But Allah accepts the repentance of whoever He wishes because Allah is the Most Forgiving and Unimaginably Merciful.” (9:25-27)

        2. What is the “Book”??

        As noted by QB they were reciting but one thing I’d like to add is you have to remember that Allah had written the Quran before creation. So what’s being revealed is what Allah already wrote on what’s called the “Preserved Tablet” (al-Lawhu ‘l-Mahfuz) in the heavens. So when Allah says things like:

        A.L.R. These are the miraculous verses of the Book full of wisdom and judgement. (10:1)

        A.L.R. These are the verses of the Book that makes things clear. I have sent it down as an Arabic recital so that you can understand. (12:1-2)

        A.L.M. The sending of this Book down in stages, is without a doubt, by the Lord of the realms. (32:1-2)

        Allah is revealing a portion of what He already wrote to demonstrate His knowledge. InshaAllah that cleared everything up, now stay off those sites:

        https://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AAUvwnhmDyxuKPqr_fECorUugtAuYVh99ml8tMCT4wtY=s900-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj

        Liked by 2 people

  9. mr.heathcliff

    6. “… if truly Allah didn’t let the Jews and Roman kill Jesus and He appeared to his disciples after 3days claiming he rose from dead he is lying to them from the beginning of his Gospel…”

    Paul does not say jebus “appeared” to his pals after three days lol, thats your earliest “witness” who wrote in first person:

    and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

    MARK HAS no appearance .

    “And that he appeared….”

    Paul doesnt say when

    Remember a dirty dog like u was asking “where in quran it say muhammad split moon”

    Where in bible it say” jebus APPEARED ON THIRD day”

    For all u know, peter could have had a vision in galilee after one month lol.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Donkey Larry also needs to explain the contradiction between the Synoptics and John about Jesus’ “appearances”. In John, he doesn’t appear to Thomas until more than a week later. But in the Synoptics, he appears to all 11 disciples much earlier, so there was no reason for Thomas to “doubt”. I asked him about this in the first Zoom talk and the moron admitted he hadn’t read the NT in full yet. 🤣😂

      Liked by 2 people

  10. mr.heathcliff

    “So the past 14yrs I believe those disciples would have told other believers that Jesus didn’t die on the cross if they knew and it would have been known by all the believers before Paul”

    Read your gospels moron, spreading a true stort vs spreading rumour. Your gospels say that the jews had power to spread rumour far and wide and exit till the day matthew wrote his gospel. The 12 fisher men were being “persecuted” so couldnt have power to stamp out bullshit

    Your gospels are ammunition against u.

    Forget 14 yrs matthew wrote 50 yrs and is saying in his day rumours about jesus dead body exist.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. mr.heathcliff

    Lets see how the “ex-muslim” deals with this

    Quote:

    I did a little more research that should strengthen the argument from silence. Justin Martyr c. 150 shows no knowledge of the 40 days when he speaks of the Ascension.

    “But our Jesus Christ, being crucified and dead, rose again, and having ascended to heaven, reigned;” – 1st Apology, ch. 42

    “Accordingly, after He was crucified, even all His acquaintances forsook Him, having denied Him; and afterwards, when He had risen from the dead and appeared to them, and had taught them to read the prophecies in which all these things were foretold as coming to pass, and when they had seen Him ascending into heaven, and had believed, and had received power sent thence by Him upon them, and went to every race of men, they taught these things, and were called apostles.” – 1st Apology ch. 50

    This latter quote seems to show knowledge of Luke but here’s where things get interesting. Irenaeus is the first church father to explicitly quote from Acts which demonstrates he had knowledge of it. Notice how when he speaks of the Ascension, the 40 days tradition is missing as well.

    “It is certain, too, from the fact that the Lord rose from the dead on the third day, and manifested Himself to His disciples, and was in their sight received up into heaven,” – AH, 2.32.3

    “then afterwards rising in the flesh, so that He even showed the print of the nails to His disciples, He thus ascended to the Father;…For as the Lord went away in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven],…As our Master, therefore, did not at once depart, taking flight [to heaven], but awaited the time of His resurrection prescribed by the Father, which had been also shown forth through Jonas, and rising again after three days was taken up [to heaven];” – AH, 5.31.2

    Irenaeus seems to understand the Ascension happening right after the Resurrection! But if the copy of Acts he had mentioned the forty days then it’s reasonable to expect a mention of that when he’s retelling of the event.

    It’s clear there was no early secure tradition of the 40 days. When comparing the sources that speak of the Ascension there is an overall tendency to extend the length of when it actually took place.

    When did the Ascension occur?

    The day of Easter – Luke 24, Mark 16:19, Codex Bobiensis following Mark 16:3, Gospel of Peter 35-42, Epistula Apostolorum 18; 51, Epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 & Aristides Apol. 2.

    Forty days after Easter – Acts 1 & Tertullian (Apology 21) – earliest mention 3rd century

    18 months after Easter – different 2nd century Gnostic sects according to Irenaeus Against Heresies 1.3.2, 1.30.14. Notice how Irenaeus does not correct them with “40 days” being the accurate time period.

    545 days after Easter – Ascension of Isaiah 9.16

    550 days after Easter – Apocryphon of James

    11 years – Pistis Sophia

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Larry

    @ stewjo004

    I just saw your response …it will take me a bit of time to read all the series you wrote and I would like to read it before I reply you. Before that you said
    you don’t care about Quran commentary / Tafsir ? do you mean on this topic alone or in general ? lol its very important to know so that I know how to address you.

    May you show where in the Bible marrying your adopted son’s ex-wife is a sin?

    There is no where in the bible that says that.. I never said its a sin to marry adopted son’s ex-wife, All I said is thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife.. That is a sin and for some reason Allah God of Muslims don’t mind when it comes to Mohamed… and Morally it is wrong don’t mean its a sin, most people don’t like someone close to them getting married to their ex. not to talk of believers. surely this can cause problem between 2 believers … Imagine at a family party and seeing your ex with your uncle kissing or Imam lol .. this is wrong.. if the person is a widow I can understand. Sometimes people get divorced and get back to each other.. How can 2 friends share the same woman and still be friends? Seriously I cant understand why you will try to defend a thing like this well what do I know… God that I know don’t cause trouble for believers and don’t do things that will make them sin.. Do this Ask 10 different Muslims if they divorce their wife and their younger brother or step father or Friend marry her, how will they feel and before you ask them tell them to be honest and don’t tell them the reason you are asking at first.. maybe you can understand why it might not be from God

    Like

    1. Hey donkey, your god was okay with David’s coveting. Otherwise, he would not have let him stay with Bathsheba.
      As it stands, Muhammad (pbuh) was the one who had Zayd and Zaynab married in the first place. She was his cousin, so he would have already known her. It makes no sense that he became attracted to her later. The law of hijab was not revealed in the time of Zayd and Zaynab’s marriage.
      Instead, what really happened was that Zayd and Zaynab were both unhappy in the marriage. They both wanted to end it. But Muhammad (pbuh) urged Zayd to stay with her. Once the verse was revealed, Zayd saw his opportunity and divorced Zaynab.
      Further proof that Muhammad (pbuh) wasn’t trying to steal Zayd’s wife due to some “lust” is that he waited for her iddah period to end, as the Quran required. If he was in a rush to have intercourse with her, why didn’t he “fake” a revelation allowing him to forego the iddah? Think about it donkey. Use your half-brain. You have been deceived by crosstian liars, but you have no excuse for your stupidity.

      Liked by 2 people

    2. mr.heathcliff

      “Imagine at a family party and seeing your ex with your uncle kissing or Imam lol .. this is wrong..”

      10 When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take them captive, 11 suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to marry, 12 and so you bring her home to your house: she shall shave her head, pare her nails, 13 discard her captive’s garb, and shall remain in your house a full month, mourning for her father and mother; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

      why would it be wrong ?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “if the person is a widow I can understand. Sometimes people get divorced and get back to each other.”

        if the woman who is a pov gets divorced by her SECOND husband, she can never marry the hebrew soldier who divorced her the first time.

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        “Imagine at a family party and seeing your ex with your uncle kissing or Imam lol .. this is wrong..”

        i was thinking more like imagining your pov ex snogging with your jewish rabbi @ party, knowing i would never be able to marry her again after rabbi eliazer divorced her.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. stewjo004

        @ Mr. Heathcliff

        “i was thinking more like imagining your pov ex snogging with your jewish rabbi @ party, knowing i would never be able to marry her again after rabbi eliazer divorced her.”

        💀💀💀

        Liked by 1 person

    3. mr.heathcliff

      4 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money

      larry u gonna love this :

      Leviticus 19 does a fair job of keeping yappy “mistake-my-zeal-for-knowledge” inerrantist fools at bay with all their pretensions about how “good” god is.

      Leviticus 19———
      20 ‘Now if a man lies carnally with a woman who is a slave acquired for another man, but who has in no way been redeemed nor given her freedom, there shall be punishment; they shall not, however, be put to death, because she was not free.
      21 ‘He shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD to the doorway of the tent of meeting, a ram for a guilt offering.
      22 ‘The priest shall also make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin which he has committed, and the sin which he has committed will be forgiven him. (Lev. 19:20-22 NAU)

      Needless to say, even inerrantist Christian commentators say the sex act described here was rape, despite knowing that such interpretation creates good grounds for criticizing the YHWH as barbaric and cruel:

      “It is worth noting that only the man was considered blameworthy, not the female slave. Being a slave, the woman may have felt she had little recourse in resisting a male who was a free man and thus more powerful both in the social and economic spheres.”
      Rooker, M. F. (2001, c2000). Vol. 3A: Leviticus (electronic ed.). Logos Library System;
      The New American Commentary (Page 260). Nashville: Broadman & Holman.

      …which means the if the master was rich, he’d realize that he could rape this girl (or have sex with her being willing, if you disagree with Rooker, supra), and he’d be “forgiven” as long as he paid the required price…a ram. I quoted from the NAU, and nothing therein expresses or implies that the “punishment” would be any greater than the man being required to give up one of his rams.

      Also, the text doesn’t specify what exactly constitutes the sex act or its duration. If he has intercourse with her two separate times within 1 hour, must he give up two rams?

      If he has sex with her several times per week, and this isn’t discovered for several weeks, must he give up several rams or only one?

      Presuming the author of this law knew that “sex” can involve multiple individual acts, but he chose to avoid entertaining that trifle, it seems reasonable to assume that the guilty master would only have to pay one ram at the point that his flings with the slave girl (or his numerous rapes of her) were reported to the priests.

      Needless to say, this sexual act was hardly “involuntary”, yet Mosaic law is clear that if a sin was voluntary, there must be a death penalty.

      28 ‘The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven.
      29 ‘You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.
      30 ‘But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from among his people.
      31 ‘Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt will be on him.'” (Num. 15:28-31 NAU)

      Of course, apologists will trifle that the distinction there is between unintentional and “defiant” sins, not “voluntary” sins, and then pretend that the defiant sin must be done with an attitude of deliberately defying the Law.

      But under Mosaic law, your sinful act was either done “unintentionally”, or it was done “defiantly”, there is no third category.

      So: when the master had sex with a slave girl under the conditions described in Leviticus 19:20-22, .was his sex act done unintentionally, or defiantly? There is no “sometimes-we-sin-voluntarily-but-without-consciously-despising-the-word-of-the-Lord” third category that was recognized under the Mosaic covenant.

      You cannot say “he had sex with her unintentnionally”, because a master having unintentional sex with a slave girl is unthinkable in the ANE. Were it otherwise, we would have expected Moses to create a law that condemns slave girls who have sex with masters whose participation wasn’t intentional. LOL

      So you are forced to say the master’s sin here was “definant” since it is the only other reasonable option.

      But if you pick “defiant”, then because Moses here did not impose the death penalty here which he otherwise required for “defiant” sin (Numbers 15, supra) , it is reasonable to assume what’s common sense anyway: the ruling elders of ancient Israel did not view slave and free women as having equal inherent worth.

      The reasonableness of that inference is not going to disappear merely because an apologist can trifle that maybe the slave girl wasn’t raped but equally guilty. Inerrantist Rooker, supra, already said it appears from the text that the girl wasn’t guilty of wrongdoing, and we can hardly be unreasonable to adopt his opinion for ourselves.

      Hence, we can be reasonable to infer that the sex act in question wasn’t done with her consent, hence it was rape, hence this law requiring him to merely give up a “ram” is far more liberal toward the rapist in that situation than Moses’ laws on rape and adulter in general.

      Once again, if the penalty for rape was death (Deut. 22:25-26) or forced marriage + large dowry payment to the father (22:28-29) or payment of dowry without marriage (Exodus 22:16-17), and none of these are imposed on the master who has sex with his slave-girl after she was betrothed to another man, we have to ask why Moses didn’t think the master who rapes (or has consensual adultery) with his slave-girl after she was betrothed to another man, should endure the same punishments.

      Why does God apparently think that the woman’s social status, determine how severe of a crime it is to sin with her?

      Would Christians today similarly argue for a law that says the middle-income man who rapes a low-income or below-poverty or homeless woman, should only have to pay something less of a penalty than what is required under the current rape laws?

      Probably not. They would say the current rape laws should apply whether the man raped a rich woman or poor woman.

      So the Christians here are forced to acknowledge that they don’t agree with God that rape or adultery with a “slave girl” after she was betrothed to another man is a lesser sin than sinning the same way with a free woman.

      Is it seriously “unreasonable” to insist that Moses simply did not view slave-girls as having equal moral worth as free women?

      So if God didn’t think rape of a slave girl was quite as bad as the rape of a free woman, then why do YOU think both cases of rape as equally bad in God’s eyes? Is the stupid philsophy of James 2:10-11 somehow implied in Leviticus 19?

      Are atheist bible critics under some sort of intellectual obligation to read NT ethics into OT law to make sure YHWH is given more benefits of the doubt than there are electrons in the universe?

      Gee, maybe the raped slave girl in Leviticus 19 was only a Neanderthal? After all, no theory is too stupid when your imperfect opinion about God’s goodness is on the chopping block, amen?

      Liked by 1 person

    4. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…. Before that you said you don’t care about Quran commentary / Tafsir ?”

      I do care but they are not an evidence in and of themself. For example if a verse goes:

      “Give them the lesson of the people whose city those who were sent came to. I sent two to them but they called them both liars. So I then reinforced them with a third. They all said: “We are among those that have been sent to you.” (36:13-14)

      That is what the commentator has to work with. For him to say “Oh well this might be referring to Paul, he has to bring evidence of that because the verse says nothing about him. The majority of your arguments can be addressed on this alone, a commentator is a regular person like us and unless they have something directly stated in the Quran or an authentic hadith Muslims are not obliged to follow it and can disagree with their statement.

      2. “…May you show where in the Bible marrying your adopted son’s ex-wife is a sin? There is no where in the bible that says that…”

      Oh well, then that’s the end of that then. it is not “coveting” to marry someone’s ex and there’s nothing in the Quran of the hadith about it to state that you have the opposite actually) Just because you don’t like it makes it impermissible for her to marry another man even if you too were friends. That is not a “morally” wrong thing. “Morally” wrong are only things that are sin as morality is subjective.

      3. “…well what do I know…”
      Nothing.

      4. “…God that I know don’t cause trouble for believers and don’t do things that will make them sin.”

      Again not a sin just as you admitted

      5. “…Do this Ask 10 different Muslims if they divorce their wife and their younger brother or step father or Friend marry her, how will they feel and before you ask them tell them to be honest…”

      I’ll be honest, I do not even somewhat care. You are basically trying to make what God has made permissible, forbidden. It is not wrong to marry another person’s friend/associate otherwise God would have stated so like hHe did with parents, daughters, father/mother in-laws etc. You are the type of person this verse was revealed about:

      “… you’re ˹all˺ not responsible for what she decides to do with herself in an honorable and acceptable manner. (2:234)

      You are not the mayor of the world and have no right to dictate how other people choose to live their lives if it’s not a sin, period point-blank. This ironically enough is the ENTIRE reason God had this situation come about in the first place to teach this lesson. God does not care about your societal/cultural thing you made up, He cares about His laws and rulings.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Lol, Donkey Larry asks how Muslims would feel if their brother married their divorced wife. Meanwhile, in the Bible, the brother of a dead husband was required to marry the widow of his brother. How would you feel, donkey Larry, if you knew that if you died and left a widow, your brother would have to marry her and have children with her? True, it wasn’t as if they did it when the husband was alive (after divorce), but so what? It’s the same principle, isn’t it?

        Liked by 3 people

    5. “How can 2 friends share the same woman and still be friends? Seriously I cant understand why you will try to defend a thing like this well what do I know… God that I know don’t cause trouble for believers and don’t do things that will make them sin.. Do this Ask 10 different Muslims if they divorce their wife and their younger brother or step father or Friend marry her, how will they feel and before you ask them tell them to be honest and don’t tell them the reason you are asking at first.. maybe you can understand why it might not be from God”

      If you wanna play the feelings card then we can have lots of fun with the old testament

      Liked by 3 people

  13. mr.heathcliff

    i have a question for larry, i quote :

    Men could divorce women just by saying so, and when they did, those women were left with no support and no rights. The children stayed with the father. women were abjectly dependent on men for support so it was seen as unethical to dump them when you wanted a new one. You could add more, but it was bad form to throw out the old ones.

    so taking this in consideration, where did jebus say “marry only one” ?

    Liked by 1 person

  14. mr.heathcliff

    “If all four Gospels gave exactly the same story, in exactly the same order, with exactly the same details, we would immediately become suspicious…”

    Now we will show the world this filthy menstrual rags dishonesty.

    Guess what. If it can be demondtrated that the gospels

    1. Using same wording and order and even reproduce SAME order when they contradict, WILL u be suspicious?

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      I ask all the muslims here to expose this persons dishonesty completely. The liar cnp something which trapped him. Now if it can be demonstrated that gospel writers are producing same order, same wording and same detail , will he be suspicious about nt?

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        Do not allow the liar to spam the comment section unless he agree that he has suspicious on new testament after he is taught about synoptic problem

        Here is start:

        Liked by 1 person

  15. Orange

    Quran 22:6-7 mentions “” This is so, because Allah is the Reality: it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who has power over all things. (6) And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves. (7)

    What about the one who are not in graves and the one whose bodies were cremated?

    Like

  16. Orange

    There is a video titled ‘Great religions of world can’t withstand 2 logical questions’
    In this video 2 questions are asked the first one is at 3min50sec which says How will you enjoy food and virgins in heaven without a body?
    The answer to this question is Allah will resurrect us on the day of Judgement.

    But I don’t know the answer to second question plz answer it.

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Orange

      Responding to unhygenic kaffir’s arguments:

      1. You noted the body is reformed in a diffrent creation and this one is gone.

      2. The planet “being round” does not negate God being “up”, for one the universe is either positively curved, negatively curved, or flat while our planet is 3D:

      Even ignoring this point, Allah exists above the throne, outside His creation and basically encompass/surrounds everything:

      Allah, there is no god but He… His pedestal extends over and encompasses the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and looking after them. He alone is the Most High and Strong. (2:255)

      2:115. The east and west are Allah’s, so whichever way you turn, Allah’s Face is there because Allah is All-Encompassing and Knowledgeable.

      Wherever He was “at” when He started creating is where He is now. To demonstrate a visual (but Allah is above such things and to Him belong the best of examples)

      Imagine us the creation is the “flat” universe and the “black” in the pic is Allah going infinitely in every direction:

      So it is irrelevant where you stand on the planet (or anywhere in the universe for that matter) as it all “looks up” to Allah in relation.

      Liked by 2 people

  17. Orange

    Plz don’t answer these questions by taking Hinduism into consideration.

    Answer the question as if any one wants to know Islam is true or not.

    Like

  18. Larry

    @ quranandbibleblog

    Well, you could have fooled me!
    But it doesn’t matter if you’re a scholar or not. The fact that you don’t even have a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible is proof that your “conversion” was not due to studying and using logic and reason. You converted because of psychological problems and the voices in your head. If anyone objectively evaluates the Bible, the only reasonable conclusion would be that that the Bible is not God’s word.

    MR QB I have told you before there is no way in this life I will run from replying you.. I am a bit busy you cant understand and that’s why I don’t respond to some other people on this Forum, I chose you and Stew because I can see a lot of you look up to Stew and you know your stuff too .. I wish I could respond to everyone because I am not taking things personal ..I see it as an opportunity to enlighten each other but I know if they follow my conversation with you and Stew they will be able to get some answers..

    I still don’t know how to make you guys understand this but I pray God will help you guys to think straight and leave emotion aside in other for you to be able to think straight .. you said regarding my conversion to Christianity it was not due to studying and using logic and reason, I converted because of psychological problems and the voices in my head… Are you saying everyone that Converted to Islam Studied and knew everything about Islam before they converted? Even there are a lot of people that are born Muslim that didn’t study and don’t know much about Islam. And your standard of STUDY I believe it has to be someone like you because I told you I started studying about Christianity more from 2012 when I was a Muslim and used to make fun of Christians then.. So I believe for anyone to consider themselves to be a Muslim or Christian they need to be a scholar simple lol … You don’t think knowing the truth which will set you free is the Key… you think with everything you Know today you know the truth? … Now let see if you are a HONEST person lol… Do you think there are some Christians out there that know more about Quran and Hadith more than you do? I mean Christians that have studied more than you do?
    If your answer is yes which I believe it should be because talking to you I cant tell you still don’t know much , why do you think they are still Christian and you are not.. if we should go by your theory they know more than you and its not enough for them to become a Muslim so by your theory these people know more than you then you should follow them, they must have known something you don’t know because of the amount of knowledge they have about Islam since its base on STUDY ..You need to think more about things you say..

    When donkey Larry says “I will respond later”, that means “I need to Google this some more”
    Lol No Larry is Busy lol …

    Lol, yes go ahead and Google for your answer, donkey. And don’t forget to explain why your filthy god “arranged” for Lot to impregnate his daughters and allowed Abraham to marry his sister. Don’t run away from that.

    Again I can see you putting emotion into your response .. You know 100% there is no where in Bible that says God arranged for Lot to impregnate his daughters and Allowed to marry his sister . Again what do I know like I said I have not finished reading the whole bible lol maybe you can send me the Chapter and Verse… You are saying this because of what I said about Mohamed Coveting and Allah know permits it..

    1 Lot didn’t commit any sin .. His daughters got him drunk which is not his fault.. I still don’t know what you want God to punish him for.. Is it because He didn’t know his daughters were going to get him drunk and sleep with him he should be punished for not knowing? Lets flip it on you maybe you will understand … If armed gays guys burst into your house and tie you up rape you by force because they over power you… should you be judge for involving in Gay sex? Or be judge for not knowing some armed gay guys are coming to your house to rape you? Loool QB QB QB come on you know better lets stop wasting time talking about things that don’t relate to each other.

    2 I didn’t see anywhere in bible that says God allowed Abraham to marry Sarah.. I believe what you mean by allowed is giving him permission to do so.. if you can show me where it says that in Bible then we can talk about it and Also there is no where that says it was a sin at that time.

    3 Bible clearly says God punished David for committing SIN and also bible clearly says David admits he was wrong and pray for forgiveness .. So are you saying After admitting and pray for forgiveness the punishment is too small ? is that the problem? According to bible God chose to punish him by killing the Son.
    Again I hope I don’t have to explain this to you again Lot and Abraham didn’t commit any SIN , David did and God dint not ignore it, David was punished for it

    Now going to Mohamed’s case of coveting This was Quran 33:37 says below
    And when thou saidst unto him on whom Allah hath conferred favour and thou hast conferred favour: Keep thy wife to thyself, and fear Allah. And thou didst hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind whereas Allah hath a better right that thou shouldst fear Him. So when Zeyd had performed that necessary formality (of divorce) from her, We gave her unto thee in marriage, so that (henceforth) there may be no sin for believers in respect of wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have performed the necessary formality (of release) from them. The commandment of Allah must be fulfilled

    .
    If we should forget what Tabari said that explained in details how Mohamed flirt with Zaynab since everything that is damaging to Mohamed Muslim consider it as not Authentic .in Quran 33:37 Allah said Mohamed hide which Allah was to bring to light meaning Mohamed already knew He was going to Marry Zaynab … Again it means Allah already reveal it to Mohamed that is the only way He could have know which Allah was to bring to light. Which means before Zaid and Zaynab divorce Mohamed already know in his mind Allah will GIVE Zaynab to me as a wife .. GIVE not FORCE.

    Which means if Mohamed doesn’t fancy her like you all claimed He could have rejected her since during that time it was frown upon to marry your adopted son’s wife.
    Again if you want to say its because Allah is making it not illegal to marry your adopted son’s ex wife ,since at the time it was frown upon to marry your adopted son’s wife and Mohamed doesn’t fancy her He could have just marry her to another man and tell people what Allah has commanded .

    Again every Muslim always say this as if you are all a child that cant think for yourself “ Muhammad had seen her many times before but he was never attracted to her physical beauty, else he would have married her, instead of insisting on her that she should marry Zaid ” Why didn’t you ask yourself the real question If Mohamed had seen her many times and didn’t fancy her why all of a sudden he agree to marry her? We all know most women often get more beautiful as they grow old.. could it be she was looking so beautiful now that she is married and Mohamed noticed her or could it be what what Tabari said is true? Lol

    Again in criminal law when a person is charged for INTEN before committing the crime, it means they have intention of committing the crime, The only way to prove it is that the person knew what they were going to do before hand. For example if a man is caught with cocaine in their Car Police will need to prove the person has intention to supply in other for the person to go down for Intent to supply .. if they cant prove by showing the person had already planed it or knew before hand what they were going to do then that person cant be charged with the accusation .. So with Quran 33:37 it shows that Mohamed had intention of marrying Zaynab because Allah said . And thou hide in thy mind that which Allah was to bring to light, and thou didst fear mankind. So he already knew and have intention of carrying on with it that’s the reason he was scared to tell Zaid and Allah said he should only fear Allah not Human beings. In Quran 4:35 its say And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware…. What did Mohamed did when Zaid came to speak to him about Zaynab He said keep your wife and this now prove my point in Quran 33.50 a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet DESIRE to ask her in marriage.. You see DISIRE, so it has to come from Mohamed not forced on him so if Allah offers Zaynab to Mohamed its up to him if he DESIRE to be with the woman or not.. what makes Mohamed to suddenly DESIRE to marry Zaynab? again you need realise that before Quran 33:37 came to Mohamed its frown upon in those days for you to marry your adopted son’s ex wife but Mohamed already Agreed in his mind he will marry her after she divorce even though its not right at the time even though most people find it disgusting at the time but he doesn’t mind..

    Now lets talk about Allah’s involvement … What kind of god is Allah that decided to give a wife of believing Muslim that is ALIVE to another man , Believer that didn’t sin, that even Allah said he hath conferred favour unto him … is it that Allah doesn’t care about other believers except Mohamed ?Is it that Allah don’t have power to make things ok between Zaid and Zaynab? Clearly Allah see they are going trough rough time if we should go with your theory but According to Quran Allah has power to do anything but he decided to use the Power to give Zaynab to Mohamed instead of Making things good between between 2 lovers.
    In The Hadeeth of Anas Zaynab used to boast to the wives of Mohamed she would say: Your households gave you in marriage, and Allah gave me in marriage from above the seven heavens. If you will not say this not true what I can see here Zaynab must have love her marriage for her to boast like that and If truly they were having problem and Allah want to get involve why not make peace between too lovers?

    In conclusion Lot, Abraham and David story is different from Mohamed.. Lot and Abraham didn’t commit any Sin, David did and God wasn’t part of it , God punished him after accepting his mistakes and prayed But in the case of Mohamed Allah and Mohamed are into it together.. Allah revealed to Mohamed he was going to give Zaynab to him meaning it will be legal for him to marry her after divorce and Mohamed Desires it because he hide the revelation from Zaid knowing fully well what Allah has revealed and what he was going to do as soon as Zaid divorce her.

    I advice anyone of you to put aside your emotions when it comes to Quran, Mohamed and Islam.. think about God and what you think about what God really stands for… if in your heart of heart you believe that is what God stands for then you belong to that kind of God and you will be Judge by the only true living God… we know God has changed so many things true the years … things that we think it was lawful before become not lawful anymore.. things that we didn’t consider to be sin that became sin…Its up to you to use your head you can blame Mohamed or Quran on Judgement day.. you were not force to follow we all have free will you are choosing to follow evil and pretending you cant see this is evil

    In case I miss any of your question please resend I will respond to it

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      pig wrote :

      “1 Lot didn’t commit any sin .. His daughters got him drunk which is not his fault..”

      he knew he had sex with his first daughter

      quote :
      According to the midrash, while Lot did not know what was going to happen when he drank the wine, he was aware of the fact that he had sex with his eldest daughter by the time she left his bed. This would also suggest that his willingness to drink the wine on the second night means that he was complicit in the sexual relations that he subsequently had with his younger daughter.

      busted!

      Liked by 2 people

    2. mr.heathcliff

      ” Bible clearly says God punished David for committing SIN and also bible clearly says David admits he was wrong and pray for forgiveness .. So are you saying After admitting and pray for forgiveness the punishment is too small ? is that the problem? According to bible God chose to punish him by killing the Son.
      Again I hope I don’t have to explain this to you again Lot and Abraham didn’t commit any SIN , David did and God dint not ignore it, David was punished for it”

      pig, where was david “punished” ? i can watch the rape of a baboon on on youtube after i do a sin, how am i being “punished” ?
      your unjust did not punish horny david

      btw, according to the bible david needed a young nurse to keep him warm in night, why not fire and blankets? why diid it have to be a young nurse?

      Liked by 1 person

    3. Vaqas Rehman

      @Larry

      You’re missing the main problems with the story of Lot(a.s) in the bible. For one thing QB already brought sources and scholars showing that while Lot(a.s) may not have know what was going to happen with the first daughter, he had an idea before the second daughter. And if you want to argue that no he’s completely innocent in this and should have no punishment fine then. Tho that begs the question, WHY DIDN’T GOD PUNISH LOT’S DAUGHTERS FOR THEIR BASE ACT WITH THEIR FATHER?! I mean seriously God JUST got done smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s (a.s) wife into a pillar of salt for just looking back! Why doesn’t God punish the daughters for their sin? Or even inform them that not all men are wiped out like they mistakenly believe which led them to their sin in the first place?! Funnily enough we find a similar issue with Judah and the linage of David(a.s) and the messiah(a.s).

      Judah marries the daughter of Shua, a Canaanite. Genesis chapter 38 Judah and his wife have three children, Er, Onan, and Shelah. Er marries Tamar, but God kills him because he “was wicked in the sight of the Lord” (Gen. 38:7). Tamar becomes Onan’s wife in accordance with Jewish custom, but he too is killed after he refuses to father children for his older brother’s childless widow, and spills his seed instead. Although Tamar should have married Shelah, the remaining brother, Judah did not consent, and in response Tamar deceives Judah into having sex with her by pretending to be a prostitute. When Judah discovers that Tamar is pregnant he prepares to have her killed, but recants and confesses when he finds out that he is the father (Gen. 38:24-26). Tamar is the mother of twins, Perez and Zerah (Gen. 38:27-30). The former is the patrilinear ancestor of the messiah, according to the Book of Ruth (4:18-22) Again God kills some people for being wicked in his sight or sinning in regards sex but why when comes down to Judah and Tamar they suddenly get a free pass? Or again why didn’t God just TELL Judah somehow to let Tamar marry Shelah and that she isn’t cursed?

      Bonus round: there are some chronological issues with this story. Together with the brief preceding narrative of the birth of Er, Onan, and Shelah, and the subsequent narrative of the birth of Perez’s children, the passage is often regarded as presenting a significant chronological issue, since it is surrounded by a narrative concerning Joseph; before the passage occurs, Joseph is described as being 17 years old, and after the passage, Joseph is described as meeting up with Judah some 9 years after Joseph had reached 30 years in age.

      The gap, a maximum of 22 years, is somewhat small to contain within it Judah’s first marriage, the birth of Er and Onan, Er’s marriage to Tamar, Tamar’s subsequent pregnancy by Judah, and the birth of Judah’s children (Judah was the father and his daughter-in-law, Tamar, was the mother);

      the passage is also widely regarded as an abrupt change to the surrounding narrative Joseph story. According to some textual scholars, the reason for these features is that the passage derives from the Jahwist source, while the immediately surrounding narrative is from the Elohist, the two being spliced together at a later date.

      You’re also missing alot when it comes to the story of David(a.s) in the bible. For one thing you seem to be saying that God killing his innocent son was justified and good punishment. Well I hate to break it too you but IT’S NOT! It’s the very definition of a cruel and unusual punishment. I.e. Instead of giving David(a.s) the punishment he deserves under the Jewish law he instead tortures his infant son with sickness and then death because he knows it will hurt him. What kind of a God is this? Not to mention as was already pointed out and I think you keep ignoring, HE STILL GOT TO KEEP BATHSHEBA! The woman he potentially forced himself upon in the story and stole from another man he gets to keep!

      Your evidence that he(s.a.w) “desired” Zaynab(r.a.) is pretty weak and playing with the verses. the facts are that he didn’t “flirt” or “desire” her and did everything in his power to keep her together with Zayd(r.a.). You cannot address this point or the point of how he “suddenly” desired her after all time. all you have is guesswork. The only way he(s.a.w) would have “desired” her is desiring for the sake of Allah(S.W.T) and fulfilling the order that he was initially scared to obey because of the culture at the time. Allah wanted to prove a point to the people and use the prophet(s.a.w) as an example. That’s all it is.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Larry

        This what I called response… but pls before I respond to your message could you please make me understand this.. if I agree that With your points Mohamed didn’t do anything wrong does it mean all the other people you mentioned in the bible didn’t do anything wrong too?

        Please In case you see me responding to @Stew I am not ignoring your message… I just need to respond to him first then wait for QB to respond to me then I will respond to your message

        Like

      2. No, idiot. What your prophets did the Bible was absolutely wrong, and since your god tolerated them, it indicts your god as well. The reason is obvious. Their deeds were disgusting and evil, and your god not only planned it that way but gave them a free pass.

        The point is that not only should the Biblical prophets be condemned, so should the Biblical god.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Larry

        Lol why are you answering for him? I can see you went to get the top guns … are you going to respond to what I sent to you ? Or you are using his response

        Like

      4. 🤣 Hey donkey, this is an open forum. Anyone can answer. Plus, since you’re missing half of your donkey brain, you completely missed his point, so I explained it for you.

        And donkey, didn’t you take like a day to respond to me? It’s only been a few hours since your pathetic response. Hold your horses, donkey. I’ll humiliate you soon enough, inshaAllah. 😂

        Like

      5. Larry

        QB as we say in Nigeria be calming down lol ..I don’t mind how long it takes you to respond… I saw you responding to the msg I sent to @ Rehman and I was wondering if you are going to respond or not… Just want to know…. I cant tell anyone how long they should take to respond its up to you if you want to reply…

        Like

      6. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “but pls before I respond to your message could you please make me understand this.. if I agree that With your points Mohamed didn’t do anything wrong does it mean all the other people you mentioned in the bible didn’t do anything wrong too?”

        No. The biblical portrayals of the prophets(a.s.) or those directly adjacent to them in this discussion would still be wrong and God as he is portrayed in the bible would also be wrong for the implications of not punishing them.

        “Please In case you see me responding to @Stew I am not ignoring your message… I just need to respond to him first then wait for QB to respond to me then I will respond to your message”

        That’s fine take all the time you need.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. Larry

        You’re missing the main problems with the story of Lot(a.s) in the bible. For one thing QB already brought sources and scholars showing that while Lot(a.s) may not have know what was going to happen with the first daughter, he had an idea before the second daughter. And if you want to argue that no he’s completely innocent in this and should have no punishment fine then. Tho that begs the question, WHY DIDN’T GOD PUNISH LOT’S DAUGHTERS FOR THEIR BASE ACT WITH THEIR FATHER?! I mean seriously God JUST got done smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s (a.s) wife into a pillar of salt for just looking back! Why doesn’t God punish the daughters for their sin? Or even inform them that not all men are wiped out like they mistakenly believe which led them to their sin in the first place?! Funnily enough we find a similar issue with Judah and the linage of David(a.s) and the messiah(a.s).

        I am not missing the point at all .. Firstly it seems everyone comparing Lot , Abraham and David situation with Mohamed’s situation is missing the point.. At the time the Lot’s story was written He was long dead with his daughters so obviously its not written to encourage anyone at the time to do it or to justify himself, Secondly He was drugged according to bible I cant take what someone else says or wrote over what bible says. We don’t use other book to support like Hadith. thirdly there is no where in bible that says God told Lot or his daughters to do what they did, so there is no indication that God gave them the go ahead or encouraged them.

        Now to answer WHY DIDN’T GOD PUNISH LOT’S DAUGHTERS FOR THEIR BASE ACT WITH THEIR FATHER?!
        Bible didn’t say why or if God count it as a sin . With the story Lot’s daughter they think there is no man on the earth that’s why they decided to do what they did
        1 there is no intent of Lust they thought if there Father die that will be all for them, again bible didn’t say they continue having sex after which we could have said maybe they use an excuse them think there was no man to be sleeping with their father

        2 Bible says Lot is old and his daughters think there is no man on the earth to come to them, again bible didn’t say they lied when they said there is no man on the earth if they knew bible would have said they were lying that they knew but they were just lusting so bible agrees that they thought there is no man on the earth
        In conclusion we don’t know if God will count it as a sin and will punish them, No one can say for sure that God will not punish them not everyone that Sin on this earth get punished before they die. We all sin and not all of us God punish instantly.As for God smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins like I said not all sin God punish people for instantly, Sodom and Gomorrah was not punished for the first sin they commit.. as per why didn’t God speak to the girls lol that’s a bit funny because 7billion people on earth can say the same thing every time they made a mistake .. why God didn’t speak to the Jews leaders that Jesus is the messiah … why God didn’t speak to Abraham when Sarah offer her slave …why God don’t speak to us every time we about to make mistake. I don’t think God speak every time something about to happen. And as for Lot’s wife I don’t know if you are familiar with this saying to be forewarned is to be forearmed..

        As per David, God killing his innocent son and HE STILL GOT TO KEEP BATHSHEBA
        You said God killing David’s innocent Son doesn’t Justify the sin well to be honest I cant really say I know the measurement that God use for punishment after some one ask for forgiveness .. as you know David accept his fault and pray for forgiveness which God accepts.. so if you say after forgiving him and killing his son doesn’t justify the sin well maybe on judgement day probably we will know… All I know is God didn’t just give him pass for what he did and as for keeping Bathsheba like I said God forgave him, Uriah is dead I think its better the way he kept her and gave birth to Solomon … but what do I know..

        Judah and Tamar Story that you mentioned I don’t see how we can put them in the same category. Like I said there is no intent for lust/Sin when it comes to Lot’s daughters as for this story of Judah and Tamar Story Bibles says But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was WICKED in the sight of the Lord, and the LORD killed him and for the case of Onan bibles says But Onan KNEW that the heir would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in to his brother’s wife, that he emitted on the ground.. As you can see He knew what he was doing again different from Lot’s daughters so when it comes of comparing two stories we need to know what the criteria we are basing it on.. I said Mohamed covet his adopted son’s ex wife and Allah is even the one that gave the permission which goes against what God stands for. To covet some one else wife is a sin.

        As per my evidence that he(s.a.w) “desired” Zaynab(r.a.) is pretty weak and playing with the verses. the facts are that he didn’t “flirt” or “desire” her and did everything in his power to keep her together with Zayd.
        I believe you should show what I said that was not true and also Quran didn’t say Mohamed flirt nor say he didn’t flirt but you are quoting Hadith to show he did not flirt but there is Hadith that claims he did and you refuse the hadith and to me that Hadith fit perfectly.. so if we are not allow to use the hadith then I resort to using Quran to prove my point which I believe I managed to and it fit again with the Hadith that says Mohamed flirt ..

        Mohamed marry his adopted son’s ex wife by the permission of Allah
        Lot didn’t commit any sin according to what was written in the bible, Bible cleared him that Lot didn’t know
        With Abraham there was no Law that says He couldn’t marry his half sister
        With David bible says He sinned, God didn’t condone it and Punished him
        Judah’s son sin knowingly like David and got punished

        As you can see with all the examples you gave in the bible every time we see someone knowingly committing sin God punished them and As for Mohamed Quran didn’t say He commit any sin But as a believer that knows what God stands for we know if God see a person committing sin knowingly and didn’t get punished for it, it doesn’t mean the person will not get punished on the Judgement day but as a believer we don’t know God to be the one telling someone to commit sin. By using Quran and Hadith … mainly Quran I prove Mohamed covet… I didn’t use what some people wrote to prove my point …To marry your adopted son’s ex wife by the permission of Allah is not a SIN so far Allah say so but to desire to marry someone else wife is the problem.

        In conclusion if Islam is the way to Heaven which I am 100% positive its not, obviously what Mohamed did is right but if Christianity is the way to Heaven which I am 100% positive it is then my God the one in the bible that will not allow what Mohamed did will prove I am right. So let us leave it at that so far in our heart or heart we know there is nothing wrong in what we are saying

        Like

      8. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        You are missing the point and even ignoring details. Again God JUST finished smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s(a.s) wife into a pillar of salt for just looking back at the city while fleeing! You’re telling me God took such an active and direct approach to sins but then decides to let the machinations of Lot’s(a.s) daughters play out?

        Again why doesn’t God just tell them their understanding is wrong via the angels they were JUST talking too?!

        ” I cant really say I know the measurement that God use for punishment after some one ask for forgiveness”

        …In cases like this we do know God’s will and judgment, it’s to follow the laws sent down on these issues. I.e. the in this case the law of Moses(a.s).

        “as for keeping Bathsheba like I said God forgave him, Uriah is dead I think its better the way he kept her and gave birth to Solomon … but what do I know..”

        You have got to be kidding me. And you have the audacity to cast aspersions on the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w)?

        The point of Judah and Tamar Story was to show another example of where God directly intervenes in the lives of people due to sin, a misunderstanding occurs due to that intervention, leading to another sin which God curiosity doesn’t stop in any way shape or form even thought he JUST did leading up to said finale sin.

        ” but you are quoting Hadith to show he did not flirt but there is Hadith that claims he did and you refuse the hadith and to me that Hadith fit perfectly..”

        Doesn’t matter since that hadith is weak and not an evidence for us. see we don’t reject hadiths willy nilly, we have an objective proof and evidence based standard while all your doing picking and choosing to fit your new agenda. How would you feel if I quoted apocryphal gospels to prove my points or disprove your religion?

        “As you can see with all the examples you gave in the bible every time we see someone knowingly committing sin God punished them”

        Oh yeah? remind me how were Lot’s daughters and judah punished again?

        Liked by 2 people

      9. Larry

        You are missing the point and even ignoring details. Again God JUST finished smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s(a.s) wife into a pillar of salt for just looking back at the city while fleeing! You’re telling me God took such an active and direct approach to sins but then decides to let the machinations of Lot’s(a.s) daughters play out?

        I wasn’t going to say anything about this again because I believe I have explained enough and believe you knew what you doing but just covering up but that will be me letting my emotion taking over me.. So maybe truly you don’t understand so I will try again

        I didn’t ignore any detail I respond to everything you missioned here again..
        Again God JUST finished smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s(a.s) wife into a pillar of salt

        Its funny that you put Alayhis Salaam every time you talked about Lot and you still questioning his innocence it doesn’t make sense but what do I know..

        In response to that I said I don’t know if you are familiar with this saying to be forewarned is to be forearmed.. so let me explain further … God told them not to look back… to be honest as a human being I don’t know what the big deal is but I didn’t create this world if that is what God want that is what God want.. so He warned them no to look back she didn’t listen and turn to salt.. We as a human being cant really say why its so important for them not to look back but again God WARNED them not to.. had it been God didn’t warn them no to look back and she did then we can say why is God punishing her . So again we can see that Lot’s wife knew was she was doing and knew it was wrong but decided to do it… Again INTENT to SIN

        You’re telling me God took such an active and direct approach to sins but then decides to let the machinations of Lot’s(a.s) daughters play out?

        Again I didn’t ignore this I said No one can say for sure that God will not punish them, not everyone that Sin on this earth get punished before they die. We all sin and not all of us God punish instantly. I believe you too sin and I am not sure God punish you immediately every time you sin so that is not double standard maybe we should wait and see what will happen on Judgement day. If we should go with your theory that they deserve to be punished ,Now prove me wrong that what God did by not punishing them immediately is double standard, if you can prove that every time we all sin we get punished immediately even including the bible, I mean every story that was written in the bible , including Sodom and Gomorrah if you cant prove it I think you are trying to find fault where there is none… I cant see any inconsistent in my God if you cant prove it.

        Again why doesn’t God just tell them their understanding is wrong via the angels they were JUST talking too?!

        I didn’t ignore this either I said lol that’s a bit funny because 7billion people on earth can say the same thing every time they made a mistake . eg why God didn’t speak to the Jews leaders that Jesus is the messiah … why God didn’t speak to Abraham when Sarah offer her slave …why God don’t speak to us every time we about to make mistake. I don’t think God speak every time something about to happen. And to add to it Angel spoke to Lot not his daughters In Genesis 19:15 When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city. Not that God cant send the Angel to speak to the girls I am just letting you know because of what you said the WERE just talking to Angels but its actually He not them… so lets flip it again to see if there is inconsistent about my God … Do God speak to you every time you are about to make a mistake ? or Using the whole story in bible did God speak every time someone was about to make mistake ?So again can you prove inconsistent about my God ? if you cant I think you are trying to find fault where there is none.

        In cases like this we do know God’s will and judgment, it’s to follow the laws sent down on these issues. I.e. the in this case the law of Moses(a.s)
        Well you are right we know Law of Moses Capital Crime but again I didn’t ignore your point I said I cant really say I know the measurement that God use for punishment after someone ask for forgiveness .. as you know David accept his fault and pray for forgiveness which God accepts.
        Lets try and go with your theory first then I will come back to adding more to my answer.. Moses Law is to put the Man to death—
        Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel but also it requires certain criteria to carry it out
        Deuteronomy 17:6-7 Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. The hands of the witnesses shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
        2 Samuel 11:4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her
        2 Samuel 12:12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.

        Now with all this verses above we can see That for one to be put to death 1st they will need to be caught having sex with a married woman there is no indication David was caught and also they will need 2 to 3 witnesses before they can kill the person.. David was the king I am not sure anyone came out to testify they found them committing adultery so as you can see in other for the Law to be fulfilled certain things need to happen first.. and when God see that David was about to get away with it then My Just God send Nathan to him that you might got away with human beings but You cant get away with me… So if we should go with your story we will need Human beings to carry this out not God so we cant blame God for that… as know what they Law say IF A MAN IS FOUND .. that means there is a possibility they might get away with it but as soon as they are found doing it then the law kicks in…
        Now lets see if my God is inconsistent again.. Can you prove by using Bible that David was found lying with Bathsheba? Can you using the entire story in the Bible to prove that every time some one break God’s commandment/Law ie Capital crime they are put to death ? Can you use the entire story in the bible to prove than when a person admits his wrong God still punish them with the exact punishment in Law of Moses? If you cant then again you are looking for fault where there is none..

        LARRY as for keeping Bathsheba like I said God forgave him, Uriah is dead I think its better the way he kept her and gave birth to Solomon … but what do I know..”

        REHAMAN You have got to be kidding me. And you have the audacity to cast aspersions on the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w)?

        Like I said God forgave him, Uriah is dead.. which means Bathsheba is now a widow .. The crime has been punished and forgiving so I see no reason he cant marry her in regards to Mohamed there no acknowledgement of any wrong doing ie SIN that’s why we questioned Mohamed and his Allah.. Because the God that we know don’t do things like what Mohamed says in Quran 33:37.
        So again by using the entire bible story can you prove that my God is inconsistent, if every time God accuse someone of sinning and they admit their wrong he still carries out the Mosaic Law, if you cant it means you are looking for fault where there is none.

        The point of Judah and Tamar Story was to show another example of where God directly intervenes in the lives of people due to sin, a misunderstanding occurs due to that intervention, leading to another sin which God curiosity doesn’t stop in any way shape or form even thought he JUST did leading up to said finale sin.

        You are right and wrong with your statement God didn’t intervention didn’t leads to anyone committing sin.. We all have free will I hope you know that.. God’s intervention has nothing to do with what happen to Judah and Tamar, God didn’t say to Tamar because go and dress up like a prostitute so that your father in-law can sleep with you and God didn’t say to Judah not to allow his younger son to marry Tamar they all did what they did out of their of free will… You are trying to say because God intervene and kill the 2 sons He caused Judah and Tamar to do what they did NO… if God didn’t tell you do something and you did it that’s on you not God.. People loose their love ones every time they don’t go do what Tamar did nor everyone go to Prostitute house.. is it God that caused Judah to go to a prostitute? When people loose their love ones do they do the same thing Tamar did? Come on how can you put that on God… People die every day and that’s not an excuse to say God made you do wrong. You are very wrong to think God’s intervention is what caused them to do what they did.
        So again can you prove with the whole entire story in the bible that my God is inconsistent, That his intervention causes people do wrong . if you cant then again you a looking for fault where there is none

        Doesn’t matter since that hadith is weak and not an evidence for us. see we don’t reject hadiths willingly, we have an objective proof and evidence based standard while all your doing picking and choosing to fit your new agenda. How would you feel if I quoted apocryphal gospels to prove my points or disprove your religion?

        You are right you don’t reject hadiths willingly but you were not there and people that reject the hadiths were not there when everything happened to Mohamed .. some might have seen something other didn’t see that don’t make it a lie… but every hadith that is damaging to Mohamed you reject… one thing for sure is Christians didn’t write those Hadiths you rejected Muslims did and its normal for Muslims to accept Hadith because without Hadith I don’t see how you can make sense of Islam so for some weird reason Quran alone is not enough but with apocryphal gospels I hope you know its not considered divinely inspired and we don’t associate our Believe with something that is not considered divinely inspired. Bible is considered divinely inspired that’s why we Use Bible and Bible only but Muslims accept they Use Quran and Hadith so you cant blame anyone quoting Hadith and I left the hadith you considered fake out of my explanation on how Mohamed desire someone else’s wife so I don’t understand what you mean by saying I am picking and choosing … I pick and choose based on what you accept.. Or show me which Hadith did I use that you don’t accept and I used it to prove my point.

        LARRY As you can see with all the examples you gave in the bible every time we see someone knowingly committing sin God punished them”
        REHMAN Oh yeah? remind me how were Lot’s daughters and judah punished again?

        Lot’s daughters didn’t knowingly commit any sin do I need to show you again?
        Genesis 19:31 Now the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is NO MAN on the earth to come in to us as is the custom of all the earth. They thought there is no Man so clearly they didn’t know… why are you trying so hard to make it fit? Bible didn’t say they knew but lied that they didn’t know… if they knew and the sisters pretend they thought there are no man on earth Bible would have clearly say they Knew and Lie.
        What was Judah’s sin I don’t know is it because he slept with a prostitute that he DIDN’T KNOW she was his son’s wife? Or because He didn’t give his young boy to marry Her? Because bible didn’t say Judah knowingly didn’t let the Son marry Tamar.. but we have established that when God call a sin out it doesn’t go unpunished some on this earth some will be on judgement day… again the problem about Mohamed’s story is Knowing God he doesn’t like SIN so how come he is the one telling Mohamed what to do in other for her to commit SIN it doesn’t make sense and Like I said with all the story in Quran it shows how much Mohamed like women and what Aisha said regarding him and Allah It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire… so when we say he desire women its not only from what we can see by reading the Quran but also what Aisha that close to her more than me and you said .. Only Mohamed is permitted to marry more than 4wives only Mohamed is permitted to marry any woman that offer themselves and if I quote a Tafsir that says if Mohamed see a married woman He like her husband must divorce her you will say the Tafsir is fake but it made its way into Quran didn’t consider are fake if its 100% why not reject it as you did Hadith .

        In conclusion I can see how Muslim are putting God in a BOX, you don’t really understand God that’s why you believe Mohamed.. and I can also see the reason why You are finding it difficult to believe all the things Christians say about Mohamed because the moment you accept then that’s the moment you will be free… But you are making a big mistake by trying to tackle Christians every time they point out how Mohamed cant be a real prophet the next thing you do it tackle Bible lol Don’t you get it Mohamed is just 1 person but Bible is word of God that contains different men of God.. whenever we say something about Mohamed’s behaviours not right you say something about God is not right …How does that make sense to you? Is Mohamed and God the same? Why are you putting them on the same level? I said he covet next thing you are questioning God about Lot, Abraham , David etc… why don’t you deal with the acquisition level against him by using his works and words if it justify what we know God stands for . every time you attack Bible you attack God but anytime I attack Mohamed and Quran I am not attacking God… I am attacking Mohamed because without Mohamed there is no Quran , and I don’t believe Mohamed is a real prophet so I cant attach Quran to God.. if you say Bible is fake you cant attach it to God then you are contradicting yourself because you cant say to me for sure everything in the bible is not word of God… you can only say some are not and some are… so that goes for How are you sure which one is which one is not? Show me where God says to you this how you know and which God? We can trace Christianity From the time of Adam and eve upon to Jesus .. The whole story merged together when it comes to Mohamed its total different … in Judaism the only problem they have is they don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah but we Christians do so one of us is going to be right at Judgement Day…. Jews that don’t believe in Jesus have their reasons which they can point out to in the Torah and Jesus/Christians have their reasons which they can point out too in Torah and New Testament But Mohamed/Muslims came and said we should believe in Quran and we said why ? Our God didn’t say anything about Mohamed why should we listen to someone we don’t know then instead of Mohamed/Muslim to prove himself Just as Jesus did they are attacking God’s word…. Lol very funny Jews are able to keep Torah for approximately 1600 years intact Jesus didn’t come start saying your book it corrupt I am Messiah.. I am sure people advance everyday so I believe people at the time of Jesus are more advance than people at the time Torah was written so how can you now say they are not able to protect the word of God if people that less advance than them can do it,, again you said because of monetary gain lol How money for who? You really believe God cant protect his words as he did for approximately 1600 years before Jesus?
        I pray God open your eyes and everyone else reading it

        Like

      10. Donkey, stop ignoring Rashi and Irenaeus. Both of them implicate your god, while Rashi implicates Lot also.

        Lots daughters must have been the stupidest people on earth if they thought they were the last people on earth. The town of Zoar was nearby, and there is no indication it was destroyed. So, there were men around. The story is a pathetic work of fiction, concocted by a perverted mind like yours.

        Oh and regarding the Jews allegedly being able to keep the Torah for 1600 years, you do know that the Bible itself says the Torah was lost? 😂😂 You are honestly one of the dumbest Crosstian donkeys I have ever come across.

        Plus, if I showed you just one verse from the Torah that was clearly changed by the Jews, will you admit they were able to keep the Torah for 1600 years?

        Your Bibull is not God’s word, you donkey. It is the word of perverts and pagans inspired by Satan. That’s why you’re struggling to defend your filthy god and his obsession with incest.

        Now get to responding to my last post, donkey.

        Liked by 3 people

      11. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Its funny that you put Alayhis Salaam every time you talked about Lot and you still questioning his innocence it doesn’t make sense but what do I know..”

        uh maybe because I don’t accept that the biblical portrayal actually happened? I thought that was obvious…

        ” God told them not to look back… to be honest as a human being I don’t know what the big deal is but I didn’t create this world if that is what God want that is what God want..”

        The common understanding I’ve heard from both Jews and Christians is that it was a test. If they turned back that would mean they would have had some attachment to the city and it’s lifestyle of sins.

        “So again we can see that Lot’s wife knew was she was doing and knew it was wrong but decided to do it… Again INTENT to SIN”

        Unless you want to argue that the daughters didn’t consider rape and incest to be sins I don’t know why your making this argument.

        “Again I didn’t ignore this I said No one can say for sure that God will not punish them, not everyone that Sin on this earth get punished before they die.”

        …sigh…Look Larry, I agree that God doesn’t have to punish people instantly for sins or evil actions. BUT when God DOES decide to punish a person or people for their sins consecutively, I find it a little weird for God to suddenly stop halfway when it comes to people directly involved or adjacent to the situation/ judgement. Especially when a misunderstanding occurs which contributes to/leads into another sin.

        “I don’t think God speak every time something about to happen. And to add to it Angel spoke to Lot not his daughters In Genesis 19:15”

        you forgot to read the next verses

        16But when Lot hesitated, the men grabbed his hand and the hands of his wife and his two daughters. And they led them safely out of the city, because of the LORD’s compassion for them.

        17As soon as the men had brought them out, one of them said, “Run for your lives! Do not look back, and do not stop anywhere on the plain! Flee to the mountains, or you will be swept away!”

        So yes the angels did speak, assist, and hurry all of them.

        “I cant really say I know the measurement that God use for punishment after someone ask for forgiveness”

        Maybe ask a rabbi if an adulterer and a murderer can ask for forgiveness from God to absolve him of his CRIME. Forgiveness of sin and absolving form crimes may be related but are still distinct
        things. And like Stew mentioned, if forgiveness is enough to absolve from both sin and crimes then what was point in the supposed sacrificial atonement of
        Jesus(a.s)?

        “Like I said God forgave him, Uriah is dead.. which means Bathsheba is now a widow .. The crime has been punished and forgiving so I see no reason he cant marry her”

        Maybe she can just oh I dunno marry someone who didn’t potentially force himself onto her and murder her husband? Especially since David(a.s) in this alleged story got to keep what he wanted through his sinning, Bathsheba. Yeas he suffered and was punished for it but the main object of his sinful desires he got to keep. Seems like a pretty big oversight to me.

        “You are right and wrong with your statement God didn’t intervention didn’t leads to anyone committing sin.. We all have free will I hope you know that..”

        My point was that a misunderstanding occurred as direct result of God’s divine intervention. Namely that Tamar was cursed or in the case of Lot’s(a.s) daughters tat all men were dead. Even if you want to argue that God wouldn’t directly correct their mistaken assumptions cause of free will He STILL should punished them as well. Answer me this Larry, why does God suddenly stop directly punishing these people for their sins when he was doing that no problem leading up to it?

        ” You are right you don’t reject hadiths willingly but you were not there and people that reject the hadiths were not there when everything happened to Mohamed .. some might have seen something other didn’t see that don’t make it a lie… but every hadith that is damaging to Mohamed you reject…”

        NO! we don’t reject something just because we don’t like it or because it’s “damaging” to the prophet(s.a.w) we reject based on our objective standard of hadith criticism. The fact you can’t understand this really shows your ignorance of hadith and truly calls into question you’re supposed knowledge of Islam.

        ” Lot’s daughters didn’t knowingly commit any sin do I need to show you again?
        Genesis 19:31 Now the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is NO MAN on the earth to come in to us as is the custom of all the earth.”

        Are you seriously arguing that they didn’t think that drugging and rape and incest would be wrong? Another question Larry is what the daughters supposedly did justified if there were truly no men left on earth?

        “What was Judah’s sin I don’t know is it because he slept with a prostitute that he DIDN’T KNOW she was his son’s wife? Or because He didn’t give his young boy to marry Her?”

        …dude, he willingly and knowingly sept with what he thought was a prostitute…How are you not getting this?

        “Like I said with all the story in Quran it shows how much Mohamed like women and what Aisha said regarding him and Allah It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire…”

        And like was brought up before thats not a proof against the prophet(s.a.w) as seen with the bible
        “And I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too little, I would add to you as much more.” (2 Samuel 12:8)

        God fulfills the desires of those close to him who obey him.

        “if I quote a Tafsir that says if Mohamed see a married woman He like her husband must divorce her you will say the Tafsir is fake but it made its way into Quran didn’t consider are fake if its 100% why not reject it as you did Hadith .”

        I find it funny try to quote or more accurately misquote tafsir against us but when QB brought rabbis and church fathers who use the text itself down to the hebrew to conclude Lot(a.s.) knew what he was doing or God encouraged the behavior you reject it as not the bible…inconsistent much?

        Liked by 2 people

      12. Larry

        Seriously you guys are like all these criminal lawyers that work for criminals, they know their client is guilty but will try to win case by attacking the character of the victim lool..

        I Just hope this will be the last time we will talk about this.. there are so many things to prove Mohamed is fake and Quran is not from God.

        The way I see this in other for us not to be going round and round in a circle…I already know you guys will never agree Mohamed covet his son’s ex wife but lets do this your way..
        You said you agree that God doesn’t have to punish people instantly for sins or evil actions. So base on that for God not punishing everyone you mentioned in the bible since Bible didn’t say they will not be punished … Now can you show me anywhere in the bible that says all the people you mentioned God told them to commit those Sins you level against them.. if you cant then please let us focus on clearing Mohamed desiring someone else wife as I have explained . Mohamed having whatever number of Wives he had according to Quran is not a crime that’s not my issue with the verse, My issue with the verse is Allah and Mohamed are in it together …if it was Mohamed alone that did it on his own then it would have been a different case or Maybe if Zaid was a Kafir then I can understand or if Zaid commit a Sin but for Allah to promise another innocent Believer’s wife not ex wife to a prophet doesn’t sound right about what we know about God. So please don’t mention anyone from bible again if you cant show where it says God told them to do whatever you are accusing them of… I just want us to finish and move on to another one

        Like

      13. Donkey, you are the criminal. You believe in this filthy book called the Bibull and then have the nerve to criticize Islam. I’m still waiting for your response to me. It’s funny how you were impatient for me to respond to you, and here we were, more than a day later and you still haven’t responded. Could it be that you’re having a little trouble justifying the filth, and that your mindless Googling hasn’t turned up the answers you were seeking?

        Liked by 2 people

      14. Larry

        I really don’t know what your question is at the moment, if you follow my conversation with @Rehman then you should understand probably why I didn’t respond to what everyone else saying regarding what we were discussing… I don’t see why we should be going round and round in a circle and also I don’t see why you guys are bringing up different incident that has nothing to do with what we are discussing it just makes it long and seems you are trying to hide away from the main issue at hand… when we finish one issue then we can talk about another. we cant speak about all issue we have in just 1 go.. Also I noticed you are trying to shift the whole thing from proving Mohamed is fake to a different thing entirely as if you already know that you cant defend things that I will be saying to you.

        Like

      15. 🤣😂🤣 You are a coward, donkey Larry. Not only have you been completely destroyed on the whole Zaynab story, you are now trying to pretend as if the filth in your Bible is a “shift”. Funny how you didn’t say that before. It seems to me that you are struggling to defend your filthy book, and are beginning to realize this. So now you claim that it’s all just us trying “shift” attention away from Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But, the reality is that we have refuted you on your stupid theories about Muhammad (pbuh), while also exposing the demonic filth in your demonic Bibull.

        So, your ruse won’t work, donkey. Now get to it. Try to explain the incest and injustice that your god not only tolerated but promoted. Stop running. It’s been 2 days since me response you, not to mention that you didn’t address many of my points from earlier. You’re stalling. We can all see it. Get to it.

        Liked by 1 person

      16. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        That’s a lot of words just to say you can’t answer my questions and points. But fine Larry if you want to move on I’ll move on.

        First how can you say the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) was “in it together” with God when again he didn’t want to marry her(ra) in the first place?

        There is a report from Anas ibn Maalik and ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with them both) which indicates how difficult these verses were for the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Based on their deep knowledge, these two Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) stated that if the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) were to have concealed anything, he would have concealed this verse.

        Second, what exactly is wrong with God in his foreknowledge of the future that the couple was going to break up determined to use this as an opportunity to make a point about his laws? He didn’t force the couple to break up and no adultery or coveting was committed. End of story.

        Liked by 4 people

      17. Larry

        Lol that’s funny I am 100% sure you know I didn’t dodge your questions its just that everything everyone is saying is not helping to answer the question I ask regarding Mohamed and you agreed with me that even if they are all Guilty of the SIN it doesn’t mean they have to be punished here on earth nor that they will not be punish on Judgement day when I said if you can prove to me by using Bible that every individual that you guys mentioned to support your case God told them before hand to commit the sins you guys level against them.. So I don’t see reason for me to answer or reply to any of the questions again since already agreed on something …Lol like I said to QB we don’t have to talk about all the issues we have in one go that will not be possible and productive and also I don’t see how those things you guys said is a prove that Mohamed is a real prophet which that is the main goal to prove he is not

        Like

      18. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        You say you didn’t dodge my questions or point and then proceed to give you’re reasons/justifications for doing just that…

        Anyway, what about my direct response to your accusations that the Prophet was “in it” together with God and that God promised another believers current wife to the Prophet(s.a.w)? How is that not answering your problem with the Prophet(s.a.w) and “proof” against Islam? ‘

        Liked by 2 people

      19. Larry

        First how can you say the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) was “in it together” with God when again he didn’t want to marry her(ra) in the first place?
        There is a report from Anas ibn Maalik and ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with them both) which indicates how difficult these verses were for the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Based on their deep knowledge, these two Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) stated that if the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) were to have concealed anything, he would have concealed this verse.
        Second, what exactly is wrong with God in his foreknowledge of the future that the couple was going to break up determined to use this as an opportunity to make a point about his laws? He didn’t force the couple to break up and no adultery or coveting was committed. End of story.

        To address what you said.. firstly I don’t believe in Quran which is suppose to be word of God nor do I believe Hadith which is word of Mouth, when you see me quoting them I am not doing it because I believe in them I am quoting it to show you how they contradict each other so the story you mentioned that Anas ibn Maalik and ‘Aa’ishah report I don’t care even though it still support my theory.. I have said to @Stew before that the reason why you people have Hadith today is because Quran on its own doesn’t make sense . anyway I already know your opinion on Quran and Hadith I am just letting you know mine too

        what exactly is wrong with God in his foreknowledge of the future

        Nothing absolutely nothing wrong for God to know what will happen in future the problem about the verse in according to the verse it says And you were concealing in your heart what Allah was going to reveal… which means Allah already reveal what will happen to Mohamed
        1 It goes to show how Mohamed is making everything fit for himself and a liar because it was after the incident had happened he claimed to people God reveal this verse to him, so He lied that it was after Zaid came but he admitted Allah already reveal to him if Allah already revealed to you why not reveal to people as you always do when things are revealed to you… Don’t say he was scared because at the time it was just a custom not to do that is not a sin by Allah its just and even if it was a sin does it matter it was Allah that reveal it since when did Mohamed scare to reveal vision from Allah? Why was he not scared to reveal something that will benefit him only when he got the verse that allows him to marry more that 4, any woman can offer her self to him ,at least this every men can benefit from it … the verse that says he alone can benefit from those things I will say that is more scary than this one.

        2 By revealing it to him while Zaid and Zaynab are still married , It will cause Mohamed to desire Zaynab in his heart and Like I said if Zaid was a Kafir then I can understand

        3 I think @Stew or QB said Allah use Mohamed to be the one to do it so that every one else could see there is nothing wrong in it Lol that is a bit funny if Allah use the opportunity to make people see there is nothing wrong and you 100% believe Mohamed didn’t want or never desire Zaynab that means Allah forced Mohamed to do it… is that it? We have seen people including that disobeyed God before so God don’t force people to do things ..He tells us what to do and its up to us to obey or not that’s why we have free Will and that’s why there is something called dis obeying God .. So if we say Mohamed obeyed Allah then from the day it was revealed to him and He knew he will not disobey Allah he already agreed in his heart that Zaynab will be his wife and all this would have happened before Zaid and Zaynab divorce.. So every time Mohamed thinks of Zaynab or hear about her he will think in his mind she will be my wife one day how does that sounds to you? Do you know how many days or months or years before they divorce ? that will even give us more clarity on what kind of thing that would crossed Mohamed’s mind.. Note the verse didn’t say he was scared to marry her or didn’t like her and like wise the Hadith you are trying to use… He was scared of what people will think so he already conclude in his mind and ok with it… Both Quran and Hadith says he was scare of People not scare of marrying Zaynab . Again tell me there is no Coveting

        In conclusion Muslims just Believe everything that they are told from the day of Mohamed till today, they don’t question evil or anything that sounds fishy and even when people do some get killed and I believe some people guessed something is not adding up at the time but they couldn’t wrap their head around it which I don’t blame them… they don’t know God and what God stands for it was Mohamed that came to introduce whatever he call God to them which till today you can see things in front of you and you are still denying it .. No way you want to turn this I don’t care what Hadith says and even what hadith said even backed my theory up, if you want to go for Mohamed obeyed Allah then I have explained why is wrong and if you want to say Allah forced him maybe you should show me where it says Allah forced him to do so or where you get it from or another incident that Allah forced him to something. So if you agreed He obeyed we should just leave it here, I have explained myself why it will be wrong and I heard your opinion too but if you are going for Allah forced him then please explain

        Like

      20. Donkey Larry, stop stalling. You obviously have enough time to write and idiotic rants, so why is it taking so long to respond to me? Deal with your filthy god and his prophets. If I wanted to see a donkey bray mindlessly, I will go a to petting zoo or farm.

        Like

      21. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “firstly I don’t believe in Quran which is suppose to be word of God nor do I believe Hadith which is word of Mouth, when you see me quoting them I am not doing it because I believe in them I am quoting it to show you how they contradict each other so the story you mentioned that Anas ibn Maalik and ‘Aa’ishah report I don’t care even though it still support my theory..”

        Larry…you don’t have to believe in something to engage with the evidence that is being brought forth…As for the hadith supposedly supporting you, care to shar how?

        “It goes to show how Mohamed is making everything fit for himself and a liar because it was after the incident had happened he claimed to people God reveal this verse to him, so He lied that it was after Zaid came but he admitted Allah already reveal to him if Allah already revealed to you why not reveal to people as you always do when things are revealed to you…”

        I’ve already shown you why.

        “Don’t say he was scared because at the time it was just a custom not to do that is not a sin by Allah its just and even if it was a sin does it matter it was Allah that reveal it since when did Mohamed scare to reveal vision from Allah?”

        …Have you actually read the verse?

        “when you (O Prophet,) were saying to the one who was favored by Allah and favored by you, “Keep your wife to your self, and fear Allah.” And you were concealing in your heart what Allah was going to reveal, and you were fearing people, while Allah is more entitled to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished his desire for her, We gave her into your marriage, so that there may not be a problem for the believers in marrying wives of their adopted sons, when they finish their desire for them; and Allah’s decree had to be enforced.”

        It literally says it right there! How are you claiming to have a problem with the Islamic narrative while picking and choosing the parts you want and inventing your own story of what happened?!

        “2 By revealing it to him while Zaid and Zaynab are still married , It will cause Mohamed to desire Zaynab in his heart and Like I said if Zaid was a Kafir then I can understand”

        That’s you’re assumption not a fact. Arranged marriages occur all the time where people are neutral or even unfortunately negative to prospect of being betrothed to said person. And given the content of the texts it seems clear the Prophet(s.a.w) was not exactly giddy about the marriage or using it to his advantage but like a true servant of God he(s.a.w) obeyed.

        “3 I think @Stew or QB said Allah use Mohamed to be the one to do it so that every one else could see there is nothing wrong in it Lol that is a bit funny if Allah use the opportunity to make people see there is nothing wrong and you 100% believe Mohamed didn’t want or never desire Zaynab that means Allah forced Mohamed to do it… is that it? We have seen people including that disobeyed God before so God don’t force people to do things ..He tells us what to do and its up to us to obey or not that’s why we have free Will and that’s why there is something called dis obeying God .. So if we say Mohamed obeyed Allah then from the day it was revealed to him and He knew he will not disobey Allah he already agreed in his heart that Zaynab will be his wife and all this would have happened before Zaid and Zaynab divorce.. So every time Mohamed thinks of Zaynab or hear about her he will think in his mind she will be my wife one day how does that sounds to you? Do you know how many days or months or years before they divorce ? that will even give us more clarity on what kind of thing that would crossed Mohamed’s mind.. Note the verse didn’t say he was scared to marry her or didn’t like her and like wise the Hadith you are trying to use… He was scared of what people will think so he already conclude in his mind and ok with it… Both Quran and Hadith says he was scare of People not scare of marrying Zaynab . Again tell me there is no Coveting”

        God orders his prophets(a.s) to do things all the time. In the bible it describes God ordering prophets to parade around naked or marry a prostitute as symbolic representations of the future or God’s relationship with the jewish nation. I don’t see how you can have a problem with the notion of God ordering the prophet(s.a.w) in this case by contrast.

        Again you’re assumptions about his(s.a.w) intentions are just that, assumptions. They are not facts. If anything we can conclude that he wasn’t thinking like that and was instead worried about the people on the marriage. Which in turn means he was worrying about the marriage. So no, there was no coveting.

        Liked by 2 people

      22. Larry

        @ Rehman You say you didn’t dodge my questions or point and then proceed to give you’re reasons/justifications for doing just that…
        I didn’t dodge you question I am only sticking to the point and I have already explained a lot of things no need for us to be wasting time we are almost their.

        Anyway, what about my direct response to your accusations that the Prophet was “in it” together with God and that God promised another believers current wife to the Prophet(s.a.w)? How is that not answering your problem with the Prophet(s.a.w) and “proof” against Islam?
        I am really sorry I don’t get your question .. please are you saying there is another incident that God promised another Prophet someone’s wife? Please put reference so that I can understand what you are saying Chapter and Verse.

        @REHMAN Have you actually read the verse?
        “when you (O Prophet,) were saying to the one who was favored by Allah and favored by you, “Keep your wife to your self, and fear Allah.” And you were concealing in your heart what Allah was going to reveal, and you were fearing people, while Allah is more entitled to be feared by you. So, when Zaid finished his desire for her, We gave her into your marriage, so that there may not be a problem for the believers in marrying wives of their adopted sons, when they finish their desire for them; and Allah’s decree had to be enforced.”
        It literally says it right there! How are you claiming to have a problem with the Islamic narrative while picking and choosing the parts you want and inventing your own story of what happened?!

        Lol you are right it says it there in the verse he was scared of people and Hadith that you quote says the same thing I am not disputing it .. I am only saying He is lying about it if you read further you will see when I said the verse said He was scared of the people not scared of marrying Zaynab. Lol I cant deny what I can see in front of me I can only disagree with intention of the person that wrote it…

        LARRY By revealing it to him while Zaid and Zaynab are still married , It will cause Mohamed to desire Zaynab in his heart and Like I said if Zaid was a Kafir then I can understand”
        REHMAN That’s you’re assumption not a fact. Arranged marriages occur all the time where people are neutral or even unfortunately negative to prospect of being betrothed to said person. And given the content of the texts it seems clear the Prophet(s.a.w) was not exactly giddy about the marriage or using it to his advantage but like a true servant of God he(s.a.w) obeyed.

        Lol arranged marriage fair enough but that is not a sin if you are arranging two singles or have you seen where they arrange a married woman for another man lol come on and even if you see it what they are doing is EVIL..

        REHMAN God orders his prophets(a.s) to do things all the time. In the bible it describes God ordering prophets to parade around naked or marry a prostitute as symbolic representations of the future or God’s relationship with the jewish nation. I don’t see how you can have a problem with the notion of God ordering the prophet(s.a.w) in this case by contrast.

        Lol you are funny @Rehman I will keep it simple was it a Sin to walk naked when God spoke to Isiah? I know you want us to start another debate if He was completely naked or not.. lets just prove that first if its not then I don’t see why we are talking about it.. we are only talking about Sin here lol
        About the Prostitute what did Hosea did that is a Sin? Marrying a Prostitute is a Sin? I really don’t get why you bring this up as you can see God told him to MARRY he didn’t say just go and sleep with a prostitute and clearly bible didn’t say she was married.. are you saying marrying a prostitute is a Sin?

        Again you’re assumptions about his(s.a.w) intentions are just that, assumptions. They are not facts. If anything we can conclude that he wasn’t thinking like that and was instead worried about the people on the marriage. Which in turn means he was worrying about the marriage. So no, there was no coveting.

        Lol if you agree with me then I am sure you will not be Muslim anymore so I don’t expect less from you like I said you guys will defend Mohamed for whatever but I know for sure if this was a prophet in the bible you would have tear us apart more reason you are trying so Hard by bring different people from the bible to show how God command a prophet to go and Sin.. I still believe he desire to marry Zaynab while she was married, Quran and Hadith say he was scared to of People but not scared to obey Allah

        Like

      23. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Lol you are right it says it there in the verse he was scared of people and Hadith that you quote says the same thing I am not disputing it .. I am only saying He is lying about it if you read further you will see when I said the verse said He was scared of the people not scared of marrying Zaynab. Lol I cant deny what I can see in front of me I can only disagree with intention of the person that wrote it…”

        You’re entire basis for saying he(s.a.w) coveted another mans wife(r.a. them both) is making assumptions of his(a.s.) intentions and whenever we bring something to counter those assumptions you hand wave it away by saying “oh he’s just lying.” Answer me this Larry, what would he(s.a.w) have to gain by lying and going against the societal taboo? Just to fulfill some carnal pleasure? How about this, can you PROVE he was lying? Also being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage is synonymous with being fearful of the marriage. I don’t understand how you can’t get this.

        “Lol arranged marriage fair enough but that is not a sin if you are arranging two singles or have you seen where they arrange a married woman for another man lol come on and even if you see it what they are doing is EVIL..”

        Evil how? God knew they gonna break up and only after they did when she was single again was the marriage arranged.

        Did God and the prophet(s.a.w) cause them to break up? NO!

        Did God allow some adultery to happen? NO!

        Did the prophet(s.a.w) “covet” another man’s wife? Again NO!

        I have texts to back up my claims while all you have are assumptions based on your bias against the prophet(s.a.w).

        “Lol you are funny @Rehman I will keep it simple was it a Sin to walk naked when God spoke to Isiah?”

        I mean, I believe intentional immodesty is a sin…

        ” I know you want us to start another debate if He was completely naked or not..”

        I mean, the bible says he was…so not much of a debate…

        “I don’t see why we are talking about it..”

        …To show that God can order prophets to do things they don’t want to do as evidenced by the biblical text. Or are you seriously gonna argue they had “desire” to parade around naked or to marry a prostitute?

        “About the Prostitute what did Hosea did that is a Sin? Marrying a Prostitute is a Sin? I really don’t get why you bring this up as you can see God told him to MARRY he didn’t say just go and sleep with a prostitute and clearly bible didn’t say she was married.. are you saying marrying a prostitute is a Sin?”

        I would assume that not punishing a known fornicator would be a sin under the law of God…

        “Lol if you agree with me then I am sure you will not be Muslim anymore so I don’t expect less from you”

        Based on our conversations I expect nothing from you. I apologize if thats mean or rude but you’re really trying my patience here.

        “I still believe he desire to marry Zaynab while she was married, Quran and Hadith say he was scared to of People but not scared to obey Allah”

        Again, you have literally nothing to base this on other than your own assumptions and bias! Bring us PROOF not guesswork. I find this especially ironic since you objected to our assumptions of the biblical portrayal of God when he suddenly stops directly punishing certain people implying tacit approval. But here you are doing the same thing! The only difference is our objections were based on evidence and logical trains of though whereas are mere assumption and bias going against the evidence at hand.

        Liked by 2 people

      24. Larry

        You’re entire basis for saying he(s.a.w) coveted another mans wife(r.a. them both) is making assumptions of his(a.s.) intentions and whenever we bring something to counter those assumptions you hand wave it away by saying “oh he’s just lying.” Answer me this Larry, what would he(s.a.w) have to gain by lying and going against the societal taboo? Just to fulfill some carnal pleasure? How about this, can you PROVE he was lying? Also being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage is synonymous with being fearful of the marriage. I don’t understand how you can’t get this.

        What he will gain is he will satisfy is desire .. as you know He loves women and you already said Allah do things to satisfy his prophet’s desires when I said only him Allah allows to marry more than 4 wives and only him can marry any woman that offer themselves to him… so you admit he desires women but you just think it was Allah that is satisfying him by giving all the instructions

        You ask How about this, can you PROVE he was lying?
        That is what I have been doing for the past few days using what Quran and Hadiths…
        Sahih Muslim 1464a
        I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) and said: Then when Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this:” You may defer any one of them you wish, and take to yourself any you wish; and if you desire any you have set aside (no sin is chargeable to you)” (xxxiii. 51), I (‘A’isha.) said: It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire

        You think I am just assuming things without any base… Did Aisha not said Mohamed Desires women in this Hadith , or what desire was she talking about in this Hadith above ? maybe this can help us, If you don’t want to agree that increasing numbers of wives from 4 to whatever number I don’t know and any woman that offer themselves which seems to me as a free ticket.. I hope you know it was after he married all his wives the benefit verse came and for some strange reason he married Widower is it that he like women that already married to another man? I am just saying not that it’s a sin but it could be another reason he want Zaynab because like you said he didn’t want her before marriage … anyway as you can see I am not just assuming because I don’t like Mohamed .. I am explaining my reason for saying he Covet with what Quran and Hadith wrote.

        Also being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage is synonymous with being fearful of the marriage. I don’t understand how you can’t get this.

        NO it is not … being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage to Zaynab its not because He doesn’t want to marry her it because of what would people say and that’s the reason Quran said he was scared of people … Seriously how can you think he was scared of Zaynab? What will she do to him? Bite him or kill him? Don’t try to spin it He wasn’t scared of marrying her he was scared of telling people his intention of marrying her simple

        REHMAN Evil how? God knew they gonna break up and only after they did when she was single again was the marriage arranged.
        Evil because she was still married to another believer
        REHMAN Did God and the prophet(s.a.w) cause them to break up? NO!
        No but that’s not the point I don’t mean to people breaking up is a Sin
        REHMAN Did God allow some adultery to happen? NO!
        No Adultery but Covetous behaviour happened which is a SIN
        Did the prophet(s.a.w) “covet” another man’s wife? Again NO!
        Yes He did the moment desires another mans wife, if she was divorce then it would have been Ok it will just be the case of Moral..

        …To show that God can order prophets to do things they don’t want to do as evidenced by the biblical text. Or are you seriously gonna argue they had “desire” to parade around naked or to marry a prostitute?
        God didn’t force them he told them what to do and they obey but they didn’t Sin by obeying what God had told them …Have told you before everyone of us have a free will and we have seen prophets that didn’t do what God told them to do before so you see God don’t force people do things.. But if you want to insist that God force people to do things it will not be for them to SIN.God don’t like SIN get that straight .

        LARRY “About the Prostitute what did Hosea did that is a Sin? Marrying a Prostitute is a Sin? I really don’t get why you bring this up as you can see God told him to MARRY he didn’t say just go and sleep with a prostitute and clearly bible didn’t say she was married.. are you saying marrying a prostitute is a Sin?”
        REHMAN I would assume that not punishing a known fornicator would be a sin under the law of God…
        Hosea didn’t fornicate why should he be punished ? Marrying a prostitute is not fornicating, you cant fornicate with your wife that’s not possible, fornication is for people that are not married.

        Again, you have literally nothing to base this on other than your own assumptions and bias! Bring us PROOF not guesswork. I find this especially ironic since you objected to our assumptions of the biblical portrayal of God when he suddenly stops directly punishing certain people implying tacit approval. But here you are doing the same thing! The only difference is our objections were based on evidence and logical trains of though whereas are mere assumption and bias going against the evidence at hand

        My proof is Quran and Hadith which I have demonstrated not a guesswork..

        Rehman please lets agree and disagree on this… like I said yesterday without no disrespect if you believe Mohamed sin by marrying Zaynab you will not be a Muslim anymore or if you are still a Muslim you will see Mohamed as someone that cover another man’s wife.
        What I am trying to say here is I know your stand on this.. you don’t believe Mohamed Covet or did anything wrong and that’s fine by because that’s your opinion but like I always say so far you based your opinion on being an honest person that fear God not Mohamed, after carefully reading everything I said that’s fine by me… You have God to answer to not me
        My stand on it is Mohamed covet another man’s wife and I am 100% sure in my heart of heart that I didn’t say it because I don’t like Mohamed I said it because I know what God stands for and with what Quran and hadith says I can see how he Covet.
        On that note I am not forcing my Opinion on you and you cant force yours on me either so we should just leave it now since both us know God will judge us.

        Like

      25. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “That is what I have been doing for the past few days using what Quran and Hadiths…”

        Correction, you were trying and failing to do that.

        “Sahih Muslim 1464a
        I felt jealous of the women who offered themselves to Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) and said: Then when Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this:” You may defer any one of them you wish, and take to yourself any you wish; and if you desire any you have set aside (no sin is chargeable to you)” (xxxiii. 51), I (‘A’isha.) said: It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire”

        Again that’s not an evidence against his prophethood since even from the bible God is shown to reward the desires of those who love and obey him. Or are you gonna argue that David(a.s) was not a prophet?

        “for some strange reason he married Widower is it that he like women that already married to another man? I am just saying not that it’s a sin but it could be another reason he want Zaynab because like you said he didn’t want her before marriage …”

        There you go assuming about his intentions again with no proof only your bias.

        “NO it is not … being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage to Zaynab its not because He doesn’t want to marry her it because of what would people say and that’s the reason Quran said he was scared of people … Seriously how can you think he was scared of Zaynab? What will she do to him? Bite him or kill him? Don’t try to spin it He wasn’t scared of marrying her he was scared of telling people his intention of marrying her simple”

        How are you not getting this? If he didn’t want to marry her because of the people then he didn’t want to marry her period. Full stop. Again your assuming he had an intention to marry her in all this and have provided no proof of that.

        ” Evil because she was still married to another believer”

        Except nothing was done WHILE she was married.

        “Yes He did the moment desires another mans wife, if she was divorce then it would have been Ok it will just be the case of Moral..”

        Except you have done nothing to prove he(s.a.w) desired another mans wife. Bring actual proof not your assumptions.

        “God didn’t force them he told them what to do and they obey but they didn’t Sin by obeying what God had told them …Have told you before everyone of us have a free will and we have seen prophets that didn’t do what God told them to do before so you see God don’t force people do things.. But if you want to insist that God force people to do things it will not be for them to SIN.God don’t like SIN get that straight .”

        You dodged my question. Again are you seriously gonna argue they had “desire” to parade around naked or to marry a prostitute?

        “Hosea didn’t fornicate why should he be punished ? Marrying a prostitute is not fornicating, you cant fornicate with your wife that’s not possible, fornication is for people that are not married.”

        …I was talking about the known prostitute…

        “My proof is Quran and Hadith which I have demonstrated not a guesswork..”

        And that has been refuted so try again.

        Liked by 2 people

      26. Larry

        REHMAN Again that’s not an evidence against his prophethood since even from the bible God is shown to reward the desires of those who love and obey him. Or are you gonna argue that David(a.s) was not a prophet?

        I know you understand what I am saying you are just trying to pretend you didn’t.. You cant compare David’s situation with Mohamed.. God didn’t promise David Saw’s wife but Allah did promise Mohamed Zaid’s wife while they were still married so there is Big difference … we all know its not a sin to marry someone that is divorce or Widow… But to desire a woman that is still married is called Covet … So for the last time Allah told Mohamed Zaynab will be his wife while Zaynab was still married to Zaid and Mohamed obeyed which means he agreed to marry her when she divorce Zaid.. So again for the last time He desire to marry her when he obey to marry her. If you desire to marry a married woman when she divorce is not coveting then no problem and if say he didn’t desire to marry her after Allah reveal to him then no problem … I leave you to God..
        Read below and see what God said then you will see there is no mentioning of promise,, All God did is help David so that Saul will not kill him and God make sure Saul didn’t and it was after Saul died His House and wife and all Israel became David’s

        Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more!

        LARRY “NO it is not … being fearful of what the people would say in response to his marriage to Zaynab its not because He doesn’t want to marry her it because of what would people say and that’s the reason Quran said he was scared of people … Seriously how can you think he was scared of Zaynab? What will she do to him? Bite him or kill him? Don’t try to spin it He wasn’t scared of marrying her he was scared of telling people his intention of marrying her simple”
        REHMAN How are you not getting this? If he didn’t want to marry her because of the people then he didn’t want to marry her period. Full stop. Again your assuming he had an intention to marry her in all this and have provided no proof of that.

        Ok for example if a man was offer to marry his son’s wife by the wife’s Parent and he agreed without telling his son , he told his friend about it and his friend ask him why don’t you tell everyone your intention and he goes I am sacred of what people will say.. are you telling the man is sacred to marry the son’s wife or scared of what people will say?
        See I have already said let us agree and disagree on this… I know you know its not proper for God to make someone Covet another man’s wife , which is a good thing that you believe that, it is just in this case you just don’t want to accept that Mohamed Covet which is fine by me that’s your Opinion.. Please and please let us move on. Let us leave it as that for God to judge all of us if we are saying the truth from our heart

        REHMAN Except you have done nothing to prove he(s.a.w) desired another mans wife. Bring actual proof not your assumptions.

        My actual prove is Quran said he knew he was going to marry Zaynab, and for him to agree to marry someone else wife while she was still married is Coveting another man’s wife, again if you think that’s not coveting another man’s wife .. that’s your opinion let us leave it as that for God to judge all of us if we are saying the truth from our heart

        REHMAN You dodged my question. Again are you seriously gonna argue they had “desire” to parade around naked or to marry a prostitute?

        I never said they had desire to do it before God told them but as soon as God told them what to do and they accept in their heart it comes their desire and again what God told them to do is not a SIN… and I have said this over and over again that Mohamed marrying his son’s ex wife is not a SIN if He didn’t desire it before they divorce … If Allah told him after they divorce I will not call it Sin I will just say its morally wrong which you can say No its not.. But knowing in your heart that you will marry someone else wife while they are still married is 100% coveting that man’s wife Period. If you think its not coveting then that’s your opinion let us leave it as that for God to judge all of us if we are saying the truth from our heart

        REHMAN I was talking about the known prostitute…

        We already agreed on God don’t have to punish everyone here on earth, as you can see what God called her prostitute which means God know she is a sinner … God didn’t say what she is doing is good

        LARRY “My proof is Quran and Hadith which I have demonstrated not a guesswork..”
        REHMAN And that has been refuted so try again

        Well again that your opinion that you refute what I said… let us leave it as that for God to judge all of us if we are saying the truth from our heart.

        It seems to me you guys don’t want me to send the last message regarding this issue because we have gone back and fort for so long and kept on saying the same thing.. please if you agree with me that You have your Opinion and I have mine then we can both agree and disagree

        Like

      27. Donkey Larry, STILL avoiding the undeniable fact that your god told Hosea to “love” an adulteress. And I’m STILL waiting for a response to my comments from Saturday. Donkey was anxious for me to respond in a few hours, but now is stalling for DAYS in responding to me. Why is that? 🤔

        Liked by 1 person

      28. Larry

        Yeah, donkey. I also asked why your filthy god decide to force Isaiah into nudism. Or perhaps Isiah liked being nude and simply made up the revelation

        Lol QB you have got a lot of time in your hand… first thing I asked if it is a Sin? . if its not a sin then I don’t see how its related to what we are talking about .. the reason is there in the bible but if its not enough then you will need to wait till Judgement day before you can ask God..

        And as I said before, even if you want to insist it was his first wife Gomer, you STILL have the problem of your god once again not requiring the punishment for an adulterer as the law required. Your god sure loved to break his own laws, didn’t he?

        I told you yesterday or day before that you read my conversation with @Rehman if you did then you will see that we both agreed that God doesn’t have to punish everyone that Sin here on earth maybe we should wait till judgement day and see what’s up… As you can see God acknowledge she was a prostitute God didn’t cover up for her.

        So again I hope you too will agree with me on this issue that we both have our own opinions and we can agree and disagree on it.. We let God judge us if we are being honest in our response

        Like

      29. 😂🤣😂 Lol, so donkey thinks nudism is not a sin! Hmm, that’s interesting!

        Hey guys, donkey thinks walking around naked was not a sin! Meanwhile, in Genesis 9, Noah cursed Canaan for failing to cover up his nakedness! And Exodus states that no one must approach the altar while nude! Even Genesis 3 states that God made clothing for Adam and Eve after they were banished from the garden. If nudism wasn’t a sin, why did God make clothing for them? And now he’s telling Isaiah to take off his clothes? 🤣 This is Crosstian logic. Their god contradicts himself, tells breaks to break his laws, and then they pretend there was no “sin”. 🤦‍♂️

        Regarding Gomer, as I already showed, she was not the woman in Hosea 3. It was some other woman. There is no evidence that it was Gomer.

        But assuming for the sake of argument that it was her, she should have been punished for adultery. That’s what the law required! Instead, we are told that Hosea should take her back! Amazing! What if Hosea faked the revelation so he could save his wife from being stoned to death? Why is it that the god of the Bible decides to spare an adulteress just to make some silly metaphor? Sounds suspicious. 🤔

        Liked by 1 person

      30. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “I know you understand what I am saying you are just trying to pretend you didn’t..”

        So now you are assuming about my intentions? Wow, just wow.

        “God didn’t promise David Saw’s wife but Allah did promise Mohamed Zaid’s wife while they were still married so there is Big difference … we all know its not a sin to marry someone that is divorce or Widow… But to desire a woman that is still married is called Covet … So for the last time Allah told Mohamed Zaynab will be his wife while Zaynab was still married to Zaid and Mohamed obeyed which means he agreed to marry her when she divorce Zaid.. So again for the last time He desire to marry her when he obey to marry her.”

        And again for the last time you have no proof he coveted or desired her. All you have are your assumptions about his intentions. Your combining the hadith about God fulfilling his desires and the texts about his marriage and making up your own story.

        “Ok for example if a man was offer to marry his son’s wife by the wife’s Parent and he agreed without telling his son , he told his friend about it and his friend ask him why don’t you tell everyone your intention and he goes I am sacred of what people will say.. are you telling the man is sacred to marry the son’s wife or scared of what people will say?”

        Both are synonymous in this case. He’s scared to marry her BECAUSE of what the people will say. How you are not getting this is beyond me.

        “My actual prove is Quran said he knew he was going to marry Zaynab, and for him to agree to marry someone else wife while she was still married is Coveting another man’s wife, again if you think that’s not coveting another man’s wife .. that’s your opinion let us leave it as that for God to judge all of us if we are saying the truth from our heart”

        Like I said before with arranged marriages it doesn’t automatically equal a desire or coveting to the person your going to marry. That’s just your assumption and train of thought. Add to that the fact he TRIED to keep them together and initially hid the revelation before God rebuked him.

        “We already agreed on God don’t have to punish everyone here on earth, as you can see what God called her prostitute which means God know she is a sinner … God didn’t say what she is doing is good”

        No we agreed that God doesn’t have to punish a sinner DIRECTLY for their sin, but they should still be held accountable under God’s law. So I’d expect a known fornicator to be punished in some way to cease their sins on the community.

        Liked by 2 people

      31. Larry

        Both are synonymous in this case. He’s scared to marry her BECAUSE of what the people will say. How you are not getting this is beyond me
        Like I said before with arranged marriages it doesn’t automatically equal a desire or coveting to the person your going to marry. That’s just your assumption and train of thought. Add to that the fact he TRIED to keep them together and initially hid the revelation before God rebuked him

        To be honest I don’t even know now if you are doing this on purpose Lol seriously .. Ok I will try 1 more time..
        Let us go with what you said then you will not say I am assuming –Both are synonymous in this case. He’s scared to marry her BECAUSE of what the people will say..

        In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah?

        No we agreed that God doesn’t have to punish a sinner DIRECTLY for their sin, but they should still be held accountable under God’s law. So I’d expect a known fornicator to be punished in some way to cease their sins on the community.

        Same thing…as you can see the lady is a known prostitute which I am not sure she is the only one at the time because what the verses says God was not happy with children of Israel.. and again main reason God told Hosea to marry her is because of the way children of Israel were leaving at the time.. so it wasn’t only her that is guilty of sin which God is trying to punish them for so I don’t get why you thin she should be singled out to be punished

        When the Lord began to speak by Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea:
        Go take yourself a wife of harlotry
        And children of harlotry,
        For the land has committed great harlotry
        By departing from the Lord

        Like

      32. 🤣 Donkey Larry, what difference does it make if there were others like the prostitute or not? Your god could have made an example out of her! Ding! Ding! Ding! Punish her for her sin as a warning to the Israelites for their sins. Duh! But your god was more worried about impressing people with his metaphors. 🤦‍♂️😂🤣

        Like

      33. I think it’s fairly obvious that donkey Larry will not be responding to my post from Saturday. He’s been making excuses left and right, claiming he’s busy, yet also claiming he’s not running away. So, I’ll take it that donkey Larry admits he has no way to refute Rashi and Ireneaus, and so admits that Lot was guilty of desiring his daughters, not to mention that the other incestuous relationship and the major violations of the law regarding David.

        Like

      34. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        First apologies on the late reply. Was busy and tired due to work.

        “In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah?”

        You’re coming at this from a wrong conclusion based on an illogical train of thought. You’re basically saying that since he knew through divine revelation that he would marry her his obedience to the divine will amounts to an internal desire in his heart. like a switch that got flipped. Sorry but you’re wrong there. We know he wasn’t happy with it based on the evidences already brought forth. You’re assumption that prophets just instantly become overjoyed and desire to do whatever they are ordered to do is proven ridiculous by the examples of prophets in the bible ordered to parade around naked or marry a prostitute. The fact that you think that they gained the desire to do these things is quite frankly silly and shows you’re double standard and inconsistent approach. Since you’re accusing the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) of making up revelation to fulfill his desires what stops you from saying the same thing about Isaiah and Hosea(a.s. them both)?

        “Same thing…”
        No it’s not.

        “as you can see the lady is a known prostitute which I am not sure she is the only one at the time because what the verses says God was not happy with children of Israel.. and again main reason God told Hosea to marry her is because of the way children of Israel were leaving at the time.. so it wasn’t only her that is guilty of sin which God is trying to punish them for so I don’t get why you thin she should be singled out to be punished”

        Okay? She should still be punished for her crime under the law of God. She could even be made an example like QB said. But there’s a bigger problem here and that’s the metaphor. See the entire metaphor of the marriage is supposed to show the relationship between God and the nation of Israel. God is the faithful husband while Israel is the cheating spouse. God gets so angry at Israel’s disobedience that he orders His prophet at the time to marry a prostitute to illustrate this. The problem comes aside from the fact that a known fornicator is not punished she is allowed to continue her fornicating in the form of adultery. See the entire metaphor fails if the prostitute is not currently engaging in extra material intercourse during their marriage. So here we have a known sinner who should be punished under the law of God and instead is allowed at least for a time to continue sinning in order to illustrate the point of the metaphor.

        Liked by 1 person

      35. Larry

        I thought as much that you might be busy you don’t seems like someone that will run from conversation, I was busy too… I was going to send this to @QB before but since you are here I will direct it to you.

        You didn’t answer this question which is very important .In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab? I believe it was after marriage but I don’t want you to say I am assuming that’s why I ask

        Now I will give you some examples that we can clearly see what people’s intentions are and I will write what I think of everyone’s response, Let see if you agree with me or you give your own opinion

        A —- There is a believer call JOHN that a believer Bank Manager always give Bank’s key to every night they close for the past 30yrs,It has never crossed JOHN’s mind to go take money for himself from the bank when the bank doesn’t have CCTV but now the Bank install CCTV all around the Bank. JOHN does what God says all the time .Then God says to JOHN go take money for yourself from that bank that believers keep their money after they close for the day without telling anyone, I want to make it lawful for everyone to be able to do so. JOHN says in his heart I am scared because there are CCTV at the bank and people will see me and condemn my action

        B —– There is a believer call PAUL that a believer Bank Manager always give Bank’s key to every night they close for the past 30yrs,It has never crossed PAUL’S mind to go take money for himself from the bank when the bank doesn’t have CCTV but now the Bank install CCTV all around the Bank. PAUL does what God says all the time. Then God says to PAUL go take money for yourself from that bank that believers keep their money after they close for the day without telling anyone, I want to make it lawful for everyone to be able to do so .PAUL says in his heart I am scared because that will be a sin to take my brother’s money without them knowing.

        C —- There is a believer single girl, never being married before, she has everything JOHN desires in a woman but it has never crossed JOHN’s mind to ask her out same as other believer girls that JOHN know. JOHN is ok in any area to marry but hasn’t crossed his mind but He does what God says all the time .There is no rule or law that says it’s a bad thing to marry. God told JOHN who is also a believer I want you to marry her ,then JOHN said I am scared of what people will say if I marry her

        D —– There is a believer single girl, never being married before, she has everything PAUL desires in a woman but it has never crossed PAUL’s mind to ask her out same as other believer girls that PAUL know. PAUL is ok in any area to marry but hasn’t crossed his mind and He does what God says all the time. There is no rule or law that says it’s a bad thing to marry .God told PAUL who is also a believer I want you to marry her, then PAUL said I am happy that you are giving me a wife I will marry her.

        My opinion Between A and B

        I will say A is ok with taking the money from Bank but He is worried about what people will say when they find’s out what he had done, if people will not know what he had done he doesn’t have problem doing what God told him to do. Even though it has never crossed his mind to take money for the past 30yrs which he could have when there was no CCTV but as soon as God told him he was ok to do it in his heart.

        I will say B is not ok with what God told him, He wasn’t thinking about CCTV or No CCTV, all he cares about is not taking money from his fellow believers without them knowing because he considers it as a sin to do so. Even though it has never crossed his mind to take money for the past 30yrs which he could have when there was no CCTV but as soon as God told him he wasn’t ok to do it in his heart because of sin

        My Opinion Between C and D

        I will say C is acting weird, because there is nothing wrong in marrying a believer girl that is his type of a girl, so if he is not doing anything wrong why is he sacred of what people will say and disobey God? I think he hiding something that we don’t know about and using the excuse of what people will say in other for him not go ahead with what God told him. Something is not right about him, he is hiding something I don’t know.

        I will say D is happy about what God told him and agreed to do it.

        So please do you agree with me on my opinions on those 2 scenarios or not? If you don’t please give me your opinion ..Then we can take it from there since you want to argue Mohamed didn’t covet another man’s wife by what Allah told him

        Like

      36. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        Sorry again for the late response but I should have a chunk of free time lined up now.

        “You didn’t answer this question which is very important .In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab? I believe it was after marriage but I don’t want you to say I am assuming that’s why I ask”

        I believe QB answered this during my absence. As for you’re scenarios I’ll be honest I don’t like dealing with hypotheticals and what ifs. Can you answer my question from before? Since you’re accusing the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) of making up revelation to fulfill his desires what stops you from saying the same thing about Isaiah and Hosea(a.s. them both)?

        Liked by 1 person

      37. Larry

        LARRY “You didn’t answer this question which is very important .In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab? I believe it was after marriage but I don’t want you to say I am assuming that’s why I ask”

        REHMAN I believe QB answered this during my absence. As for you’re scenarios I’ll be honest I don’t like dealing with hypotheticals and what ifs. Can you answer my question from before? Since you’re accusing the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) of making up revelation to fulfill his desires what stops you from saying the same thing about Isaiah and Hosea(a.s. them both)?
        He didn’t answer, and I can see QB doesn’t have understanding of bible and God/Allah as you do. If you don’t mind could you please answer or could you please resend his response, This is what he said below.

        QB RESPONSE: LOL, you silly donkey, Allah (swt) only revealed that Zaynab would become his wife after Zayd divorces her. This is not a sin! There was no “coveting” here. “Coveting” your neighbour’s wife is forbidden because they are married AND there is no indication that this marriage will end. But in the case of Muhammad (pbuh), he was GIVEN supernatural knowledge of the future, so he KNEW that Zayd and Zaynab would get divorced and then Zaynab will marry the Prophet. Therefore, it is perfectly natural for the thought to arise that he will be able to marry her. BUT DESPITE THIS, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) STILL told Zayd to keep his wife. This shows his sincerity. Even though he knew what would happen, he still tried to keep it from happening. This is why was reprimanded in the verse

        REHMAN Since you’re accusing the Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) of making up revelation to fulfill his desires what stops you from saying the same thing about Isaiah and Hosea(a.s. them both)?

        Hosea has nothing to gain and was not committing any sin and likewise Isaiah .
        Let us go with your theory first If Hosea decides to marry a prostitute no one will say it’s a sin, its not written anywhere that it’s a sin to marry a prostitute nor a taboo , so there is no reason to make up revelation to achieve it if truly it was his desire. The reason why God told him to do what he did is to show what will happen to Israelite before it happen and it did happened same way Hosea prophecy so that goes to show it didn’t make it up same thing with Isaiah Unlike Mohamed it was after the event he told everyone he receive revelation .. Again if you read bible you will see why God always say things before it happens so that people will believe in him.so what Mohamed is a sin according to 10 commandment and taboo according to his people at the time.

        LARRY That’s why when Jesus came into the world he has to give up his divine privileges in other for him to be Human not God.”

        REHMAN Human not God?! Larry do you believe he was not also 100% god on earth during the incarnation?

        Yes I believe

        LARRY “I really don’t know why you think God doesn’t have the power to do all this things bible says.. do you really believe God doesn’t have the power to do it or what?…”

        REHMAN I see this come up a lot by Christians so let me make this clear, contradictions and logical absurdities are not “things.” When we say God can do anything the “thing” is referring to possibilities even the the miraculous or the unlikely. But hypothetical scenarios or objects that by their very natures imply contradiction do not count because that would be ridiculous. For example the off repeated nonsense question by atheists and the like who ask “can God create a boulder so heavy that EVEN HE can’t lift it?!” To us you’re concept of a “god-man” “dying” for the sins of the world is no different that silly question.

        Its very funny that you said that.. but before I answer this question I don’t want to assume why you think that God cant take on flesh die for the sins of the world.. so please is there anything in Quran that say this is not possible or is it your own reasoning? And please explain why its not possible or why is Silly…

        Like

      38. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Hosea has nothing to gain and was not committing any sin and likewise Isaiah .”

        We’ve been over this before but I’m pretty sure that not punishing a known fornicator and allowing them to continue their actions would probably be considered a sin under the law of God. And of course immodesty is a sin. What do you mean he had nothing to gain? He got to marry and sleep with a prostitute. My point is how do know he didn’t make up the revelation to fulfill his desires like with what you’re claiming of the prophet Muhammad(s.a.w)?

        ” If Hosea decides to marry a prostitute no one will say it’s a sin, its not written anywhere that it’s a sin to marry a prostitute nor a taboo , so there is no reason to make up revelation to achieve it if truly it was his desire.”

        Like I said before it could still be a sin and I’m pretty sure people would have at least talked and gossiped about a prophet of God marrying a known prostitute.

        ” Yes I believe”
        Well I regret to be the one to inform you but that’s heresy according to Christian orthodoxy. Which would make you a heretic.

        “Its very funny that you said that.. but before I answer this question I don’t want to assume why you think that God cant take on flesh die for the sins of the world.. so please is there anything in Quran that say this is not possible or is it your own reasoning? And please explain why its not possible or why is Silly…”

        While yes it is true that the Holy Quran rejects this notion of God being like man and dying with names like The Living or The Eternal and The Everlasting. And it is also true I personally reject these Christian notions due to how nonsensical they are. But I’ll do you one better. Rather than quote the Quran which you don’t accept or state my own reasoning and logic, first I’ll use the bible to prove my point.

        Ezekiel 28

        1The word of the Lord came to me: 2“Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

        “ ‘In the pride of your heart

        you say, “I am a god;

        I sit on the throne of a god

        in the heart of the seas.”

        But you are a mere mortal and not a god,

        though you think you are as wise as a god.

        3Are you wiser than Daniel?

        Is no secret hidden from you?

        4By your wisdom and understanding

        you have gained wealth for yourself

        and amassed gold and silver

        in your treasuries.

        5By your great skill in trading

        you have increased your wealth,

        and because of your wealth

        your heart has grown proud.

        6“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says:

        “ ‘Because you think you are wise,

        as wise as a god,

        7I am going to bring foreigners against you,

        the most ruthless of nations;

        they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom

        and pierce your shining splendor.

        8They will bring you down to the pit,

        and you will die a violent death

        in the heart of the seas.

        9Will you then say, “I am a god,”

        in the presence of those who kill you?

        You will be but a mortal, not a god,

        in the hands of those who slay you.

        10You will die the death of the uncircumcised

        at the hands of foreigners.

        I have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.’ ”

        so here we see certain qualities that if possessed disqualifies one from being God:
        1.being not all knowing
        2.being overpowered and killed by humans
        3.dying
        4.dying a cursed/humiliating death

        The question then is why God would use such criteria against the king of tyre when he was going to incarnate and die for the sins of mankind? The fact is that God is immutable meaning he doesn’t change in his nature because he is perfect and change would imply imperfection either before or after the change. And dying is not only a change but also the state of being overpowered by one of the forces of the universe, death. Which would mean God is not all powerful if He died. The reason it’s silly is because it’s a logical absurdity or contradiction just like a married bachelor, it makes no sense and just can’t happen.

        Liked by 1 person

      39. Larry

        LARRY “You didn’t answer this question which is very important .In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab?

        I have seen your response but you still didn’t answer this question above neither did QB,, is there a reason why I am not getting an answer? please could you give me an answer before I respond to your last message.. like I said its very important that you answer in other for us to see how Mohamed covet without you saying I assume.

        Like

      40. You got an answer, donkey. Just because you keep saying you didn’t, doesn’t make it so.

        By the way, how’s your respond to me coming? I hope you don’t stall for 2 weeks like you did last time! 😂

        Like

      41. Larry

        You didn’t answer this question which is very important .In between the time Allah reveal to Mohamed what will happen up until when Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab? […]

        I didn’t see you response to those 2 questions if you say you did my bad. please copy your response to those 2 questions just those 2 and resend it..

        Like

      42. This was answered, you donkey. All Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) thought was that Zayd will divorce Zaynab, he will be able to marry her. Since he knew this from revelation, he was not “coveting” Zaynab. But because he was afraid of the scandal among the disbelievers, when Zayd actually came to him to complain about Zaynab, the Prophet told him to keep his wife. He knew what was going to happen, but out of the very natural fear of what people might say, at that moment, he told Zayd not to divorce his wife. For this, he was reprimanded by God.

        According to Ibn Kathir, the verse itself was revealed after Zayd divorced Zaynab AND her iddah period was over. Ibn Kathir mentions that the Prophet sent Zayd to deliver the marriage proposal. Zaynab wanted to pray to God for guidance. Then the verse was revealed and the Prophet formally married her.

        Like

      43. Larry

        I have seen this before .. I am asking you since there are other commentary about the same verse .. I have seen where it says it was after Mohamed Married Zaynab the verses was reveal .. I believe some Muslims believe that it was after the marriage and some believe it was after he sent Zaid to propose on his behalf .. So I am asking you what is your take so that when I speak to you on your take you will not say I am assuming. So please if you will answer again was it before or after marriage

        Like

      44. Larry

        There is a big difference if it was right after the marriage proposal or after the marriage itself , why are you scared to say what you believe and know… if I pick the ones that says it was after marriage will you say accept it as authentic or weak? again like I said I don’t want to pick for you … I want to quote you so tell me what you believe like I said there are two different stories .. are they both correct or only 1 is … I really don’t know why you cant answer straightforward since you know I am asking because there are 2 different stories regarding the verse in question

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      45. Lol, donkey. Do you not know how to read? I just told you it was after the marriage proposal but before the actually marriage. 😂 I just showed you an authentic Hadith from Sahih Muslim. Stop being a donkey for 5 minutes and try to think clearly.

        How’s your response coming? You keep avoiding that. You’re not gonna stall for 2 weeks again, are you? It seems like you’re the one who’s afraid. Having regrets like your god did? 🤣

        Like

      46. Larry

        You said Mohamed didn’t covet he was scared of the people but I said He wasn’t scared of marrying Zainab he claimed he was sacred of what people will say.. which there is a big difference like the scenarios I gave you… Mohamed doesn’t have problem with what Allah said which is marrying Zainab , He was not scared because I didn’t see anywhere Quran that says Zainab is crazy she can stab or poison Mohamed then I would have understand why He might be scared of marrying her so Mohamed’s problem is not with Zainab , He is ok with marrying Zainab, obeying Allah’s commands. Mohamed is just not ok with what people will say if he marry his adopted son’s ex. Now let me show you why I don’t really believe what Ibn Al Kathir said about Allah revealing Quran 33:37-40 before the marriage it contradicts your argument of Mohamed being scared of what people will say it just goes to prove my point of him being a liar more

        According to you Mohamed send Zaid to Zainab after they divorce to inform her that Mohamed want to marry her and this is before the Q 33:37-40 was reveal which means the same reason you gave for him to be scared at the beginning is still there.. which is a taboo to marry your adopted son’s ex so if what you said about him being scared of what people will say why did Mohamed send Zaid to Zainab knowing people will frown upon it and knowing he hide the fact from Zaid when he came to him while he was married, what gives him courage not to be scared anymore? Because at the time he sent Zaid Allah has not reveal Quran 33:37-40.. so tell me why He was scared before and not scared anymore..? Again what I said is true about him not being scared of doing what he claimed Allah told him to do ..

        Now to lets go to the covet part… If Allah told Mohamed he was going to marry Zainab after divorce and Mohamed actually agreed to it then it means during the time Zainab and Zaid are married, Mohamed already desire to marry Zainab after she divorce as I have shown above that he wasn’t scared of marrying her he was only scared of what people will say which is two different things… so again Mohamed desires to marry Zainab while she was married to Zaid because he didn’t care about what people will say as you all claimed as soon as she finished with Zaid, He made his intentions known to her without caring about what people will say, suddenly not scared anymore.

        LARRY Hosea has nothing to gain and was not committing any sin and likewise Isaiah .”

        REHMAN We’ve been over this before but I’m pretty sure that not punishing a known fornicator and allowing them to continue their actions would probably be considered a sin under the law of God. And of course immodesty is a sin.

        I have already answer this before but I will explain again …
        1. we both agreed God doesn’t have to punish everyone that commit sin here on earth, so if truly it was a sin what they did then we can wait till judgement day to see if God will punish them or not,

        2.God didn’t tell Gomer what to do he spoke to Hosea, he didn’t tell Gomer to do a thing, he told Hosea to do something and what He told Hosea is not a sin to Marry a prostitute or is it a sin to marry a prostitute ? so we don’t have to be going up and down with something that is not the same as what I levelled against Mohamed and Allah… Again my problem with Quran 33:37-40 is Mohamed claimed Allah told him he will marry Zainab while she was still married which that will cause him to covet… God that I know doesn’t tell anyone do what will make them SIN so please if you are not going to show me what God tell anyone in the bible to do and it’s a sin stop bringing other people up its just waste of time.. let us be honest in our conversation and not bring two things that are not the same .. So tell me what God told Hosea to do that is a sin not what Gomer did because God didn’t tell Gomer to become a prostitute or speak to her.. and clearly the verses says why God told Hosea to do what He did, Hosea 1:2 When the Lord began to speak by Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea: “Go, take yourself a wife of harlotry And children of harlotry, For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord.”.. As you can see clearly For the land has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord… according to you Gomer should be single out of the whole Israel and be punished even though the whole Israel has committed great harlotry By departing from the Lord.
        3. Under God’s law its people that always implement the law not God coming down from heaven, so if people didn’t implement God’s law you cant blame God for that… so if King or whoever that suppose to implement the law at the time didn’t do it you cant say its God’s fault and I believe that is the more reason God was not happy with them when He spoke to Hosea. Not every time God implement his law by himself

        REHMAN What do you mean he had nothing to gain? He got to marry and sleep with a prostitute. My point is how do know he didn’t make up the revelation to fulfill his desires like with what you’re claiming of the prophet Muhammad(s.a.w)?

        If his desires is to marry a prostitute there is nothing stopping him to do so…it wasn’t a sin nor a taboo, you assumed he could be ashamed of what people will say well you would have been right if what God told him will happen before it happened didn’t happen… as you can see if he was lying then those things he said would not have happened and point of correction he got married to a prostitute and slept with his wife there nothing big of deal sleeping with your wife

        REHMAN Like I said before it could still be a sin and I’m pretty sure people would have at least talked and gossiped about a prophet of God marrying a known prostitute.

        No where it says it is a sin to marry a prostitute not then not now.. but I am open to see your evidence if you have one not could still be a sin.

        REHMAN so here we see certain qualities that if possessed disqualifies one from being God:
        1.being not all knowing
        2.being overpowered and killed by humans
        3.dying
        4.dying a cursed/humiliating death
        REHMAN The question then is why God would use such criteria against the king of tyre when he was going to incarnate and die for the sins of mankind? The fact is that God is immutable meaning he doesn’t change in his nature because he is perfect and change would imply imperfection either before or after the change. And dying is not only a change but also the state of being overpowered by one of the forces of the universe, death. Which would mean God is not all powerful if He died. The reason it’s silly is because it’s a logical absurdity or contradiction just like a married bachelor, it makes no sense and just can’t happen.

        You are comparing King of Tyre with Jesus… Jesus did a lot of miracles I cant recall one that King of Tyre did…. Again according to the bible you quoted there is no where it says King of Tyre is Son of God or Messiah or Logos I guess that’s what Muslim accept, How can we now put them in the same category ? Jesus was born in a miraculous way and again no where in the bible that God says Jesus died because he claimed to be son of God or one with God.. If you can point out a evidence that or reference that says God said Jesus died because he claimed to be one with God or son of God then I will understand… Bible told us Galatians 1:3-4
        Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,
        We know why Jesus died the way did and why King of Tyre died the way he did both of them are not the same… Or do you believe the reason why People that fought against Mohamed died is the same reason people that fight with Mohamed died ? did both of them serves the same purpose?

        I will address this more with @Stew I am just waiting for his response because he made some good points but still wrong..

        In conclusion to what Mohamed and Allah did in Quran 33:37-40 I believe Quran and Hadith clearly contradicts and also what you said is not true about him being Scared all the verse and Hadith show is Mohamed covet Zaid’s wife.. I will wait your response on what I got wrong

        Like

      47. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Now let me show you why I don’t really believe what Ibn Al Kathir said about Allah revealing Quran 33:37-40 before the marriage”

        Seriously? So you’re just gonna reject anything that doesn’t fit you’re flawed methodology huh?

        Anyway since the bulk of you’re comment on this topic is in response to QB’s reply you should take it up with him so as to make the comment chains a bit cleaner.

        “1. we both agreed God doesn’t have to punish everyone that commit sin here on earth, so if truly it was a sin what they did then we can wait till judgement day to see if God will punish them or not,”

        This is ridiculous. I agreed that God doesn’t have to punish everyone on earth instantly via DIRECT punishment’s for their sins BUT where I disagreed and hence my points to you thus far is that,

        1. When God is already directly punishing a person or peoples then it’s a little odd for him to suddenly stop when sins are still continuing to be committed in the general vicinity of his judgment.

        2. When the law of God is the law of the land, certain sins become CRIMES. Especially those that affect the community like fornication. For God not to pass judgement via his own law and just hold off until judgment day basically renders the law a moot point. To Illustrate this how would you feel if the prophet had caught a murderer and instead of passing a sentence of any kind just said “welp I guess we can wait until judgment day for you to be punished” Like seriously what was even the point in sending down the law if not to follow it?

        “You are comparing King of Tyre with Jesus…”

        I’m comparing the relevant portions as per you’re theology yes.

        “Jesus did a lot of miracles I cant recall one that King of Tyre did….”

        Miracles don’t make you God or divine.

        “How can we now put them in the same category ?”

        I just showed how. God uses the king of tyre as an example to illustrate who he is and what disqualifies someone form being God. You yourself have said that Jesus(a.s) did not posses all the qualities of divinity during the incarnation( which again is a heresy by the way.) that by definition makes him not God.

        “Jesus was born in a miraculous way”

        Still doesn’t make him God.

        Anyway I have to ask you Larry, you do realize you’re beliefs on the incarnation are heretical right? And whether you realize it or not that negs the question, why didn’t the voice/spirit/force that guided you to Christianity guide you to the correct version of it? Or are you gonna say that you’re on the correct understanding and everyone else in Christendom is wrong?

        Liked by 2 people

      48. Larry

        LARRY “Now let me show you why I don’t really believe what Ibn Al Kathir said about Allah revealing Quran 33:37-40 before the marriage”
        REHMAN Seriously? So you’re just gonna reject anything that doesn’t fit you’re flawed methodology huh?

        I didn’t reject it because it didn’t fit … I clearly showed you why what he said cant be true and for some weird reason you didn’t argue with me. Do you agree with me that what Quran says is Mohamed desire to obey Allah while Zaid and Zaynab are still married but He was scared of what people will say ?

        REHMAN Anyway since the bulk of you’re comment on this topic is in response to QB’s reply you should take it up with him so as to make the comment chains a bit cleaner
        Again you are transferring it back to QB without disagreeing with me on what I said about Mohamed again weird or does it mean you agreed with me because you respond to other points that I raised

        REHMAN When God is already directly punishing a person or peoples then it’s a little odd for him to suddenly stop when sins are still continuing to be committed in the general vicinity of his judgment.

        I am guessing You are referring to God punishing Sodom and Gomorrah, I have address this before but I will do it again.. firstly when God decides to punish Sodom and Gomorrah He didn’t do it because they sin only once or it was the first time they did what they did.. Genesis 18:20 And the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, Genesis 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it. As we can see Sodom have been committing sin for a long time before God decides to Punish them, so if we were to go by your theory Lot and his daughters only did what you levelled against them once each .So if God didn’t punish Sodom for committing sin once we shouldn’t be surprised if He didn’t punish Lot and his daughters straightaway and the Lot and his family have nothing to do with the sins of Sodom, they didn’t participate in it..

        REHMAN When the law of God is the law of the land, certain sins become CRIMES. Especially those that affect the community like fornication. For God not to pass judgement via his own law and just hold off until judgment day basically renders the law a moot point. To Illustrate this how would you feel if the prophet had caught a murderer and instead of passing a sentence of any kind just said “welp I guess we can wait until judgment day for you to be punished” Like seriously what was even the point in sending down the law if not to follow it?

        Well again let us go with your theory that they are guilty ….According to bible they are alone in the cave, who will carry out God’s law? the scenario that you gave Prophet can carry out the law but in this case who will do it? Let us say God can do it because He can, but as we all know he didn’t do anything directly to 3 of them.. so what is wrong in that? Are they the only one God didn’t punish instantly ? We human beings get same benefit from God every time I don’t see what God did here that is wrong or odd.. or do you think its only those 3 God didn’t punish instantly for the crime you levelled against them?

        REHMAN I just showed how. God uses the king of tyre as an example to illustrate who he is and what disqualifies someone form being God. You yourself have said that Jesus(a.s) did not posses all the qualities of divinity during the incarnation( which again is a heresy by the way.) that by definition makes him not God.

        Like I said before King of Tyre is not son of God Jesus is.. when you say again is a heresy by the way what does that means? Heresy is an opinion or belief that is the opposite of or against what is the official or popular.. Just because something is official or popular don’t make it right … I am not saying they are not right I am only saying only God’s opinion is the final…. What they said and what I said is the same but I know why you cant get it…. When I see Jesus I don’t see him as human being like me and you I see him as God but for the sake of argument and not make you think I am trying to manipulate things that’s why I have to explain things the way I do…Jesus is God Spirit or Physical but to Muslims you cant understand it so I have to come to your level of what bible says about how he empty himself …. Now let me give you another example … if a man father a child they call that man Father of so so and so… but when the man neglects his fatherly duties they say to him you are not a father … Just because he neglects his duties and someone says you are not a father does that make the sentence true? No matter what happen he will remain a father nothing can change that but to society if a man does certain things they don’t consider that person a father… so Just because Jesus empty himself does not change the fact that He is God… again like what I said to @stew who we are in spiritual realm is the same as physical. We exist in Spiritual and physical realm but the difference is we don’t posses the same attributes but we are still the same person….its like your body saying to your soul how can we be the same,you cant be me I cant be you … it will not make sense because they are both the same its just that they exist in different realms with different attributes.

        REHMAN Anyway I have to ask you Larry, you do realize you’re beliefs on the incarnation are heretical right? And whether you realize it or not that negs the question, why didn’t the voice/spirit/force that guided you to Christianity guide you to the correct version of it? Or are you gonna say that you’re on the correct understanding and everyone else in Christendom is wrong?
        Lol I am sure you think I am crazy …..I believe I have answered this in the question just before this… but let us have a go at it again ,everyone else in Christendom you are talking about if you ask them why did Jesus says only Father know the hour they will say because he empty himself but what does that mean? Like I said Just because your soul which by the way we call it Spirit exist in spiritual realm and your body in physical realm doesn’t mean they are not the same they are both you… Your soul is called Rehman same as your body is called Rehman… If you body do something wrong God will not Judge someone else Soul for what your body did.. Every soul is assigned to a body.. but if you disagree with me let me ask you the same question I ask @Stew and he ran from it lol….

        Is your soul/Spirt and body different entity ?
        Does your Soul/Spirit and Body posses the same attributes ?
        If your body sin does your Soul/Spirit get punished or just your body get punished
        Do you have Spirit, Soul and Body or Just Soul and Body
        and the most important one Are you Body or are you Soul or Are you both together ?

        If you can answer these questions it will help in understanding how the Word and Jesus are the same

        Like

      49. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Do you agree with me that what Quran says is Mohamed desire to obey Allah while Zaid and Zaynab are still married but He was scared of what people will say ?
        or does it mean you agreed with me because you respond to other points that I raised”

        You really need to quit assuming things of others. Quite a bad habit. I thought I pretty clearly said why I didn’t interact with said point, because it was largely in response to QB I didn’t feel the need to reply and possibly have to retread and repeat the same arguments as him.

        “I am guessing You are referring to God punishing Sodom and Gomorrah”

        As well as the whole episode of Judah, his sons, and Tamar.

        “So if God didn’t punish Sodom for committing sin once we shouldn’t be surprised if He didn’t punish Lot and his daughters straightaway and the Lot and his family have nothing to do with the sins of Sodom, they didn’t participate in it..”

        …D-did you just forget about Lot’s(a.s) wife turning into a pillar of salt? pretty sure she turned back only once…
        And like I said earlier what about Judahs sons? They were each struck down for being wicked only in response to recent singular actions.

        “Well again let us go with your theory that they are guilty ….According to bible they are alone in the cave, who will carry out God’s law? the scenario that you gave Prophet can carry out the law but in this case who will do it? Let us say God can do it because He can, but as we all know he didn’t do anything directly to 3 of them.. so what is wrong in that? Are they the only one God didn’t punish instantly ? We human beings get same benefit from God every time I don’t see what God did here that is wrong or odd.. or do you think its only those 3 God didn’t punish instantly for the crime you levelled against them?”

        You seem to have confused my point. I was referring to Hosea and his not judging a known prostitute. Also there is a difference between private sins that affect only yourself and public sins that affect the community. Especially under the law of God.

        “I am not saying they are not right I am only saying only God’s opinion is the final…. ”

        If you believe as you said you did that Jesus(a.s) was not fully 100% God or divine during the incarnation then that’s against orthodoxy and hence either you or they are wrong concerning this.

        “What they said and what I said is the same”

        No it’s not. They do not believe that the divine nature became less God during the incarnation.(Well I mean they SAY they don’t but I would argue that in practice thats where their theology leads to. But I don’t see the point of discussing that with a heretic.)

        “everyone else in Christendom you are talking about if you ask them why did Jesus says only Father know the hour they will say because he empty himself”

        Well more precisely they would either say it was the human nature talking or his knowledge was “veiled.” Both have their problems.

        “Is your soul/Spirt and body different entity ?
        Does your Soul/Spirit and Body posses the same attributes ?
        If your body sin does your Soul/Spirit get punished or just your body get punished
        Do you have Spirit, Soul and Body or Just Soul and Body
        and the most important one Are you Body or are you Soul or Are you both together ?

        If you can answer these questions it will help in understanding how the Word and Jesus are the same”

        I’ll answer these questions only on the condition you can substantiate you’re separation of the human identity into those parts/categories from the scripture you believe in.

        Also Larry you have on multiple different comments stated you want to move on from this topic and that you other concerns about the religion of Islam. In a sperate comment and when you have the time could please say what they are?

        Liked by 2 people

      50. Larry

        REHMAN You really need to quit assuming things of others. Quite a bad habit. I thought I pretty clearly said why I didn’t interact with said point, because it was largely in response to QB I didn’t feel the need to reply and possibly have to retread and repeat the same arguments as him.

        I didn’t assume I was asking if you agree with me.. Because according to Quran and Hadith.. Its either Mohamed was scared or not, Desire Zaynab or Not, Covet or not.. I was only asking if according to what I showed you from Quran and Hadith if Mohamed is actually scared or not.. Because the reason you gave me first is He was scared of what people will say if he marry his adopted son’s ex and that is why He didn’t tell Zaid what God revealed to him and also he tried to make Zaid stay in the relationship. This is what you said to show how much he doesn’t want it because he was scared .. Then I showed you where it says He told Zaid to tell Zaynab about his intention to marry her then I ask How come Mohamed you said He was scared before all of a sudden he is not scared anymore … I just want to know what happen because from the beginning I never believe he was scared of people, I explained it to you but you said I assumed so since you believe he was scared then I ask why he wasn’t scared anymore.. Like you said I will speak to QB about it and I already respond to his msg just waiting to hear from him why Mohamed wasn’t scared all of a sudden anymore knowing people will still not accept it. This question is very important since I have shown evidence how Mohamed is not scared not assuming

        LARRY “I am guessing You are referring to God punishing Sodom and Gomorrah”
        REHMAN As well as the whole episode of Judah, his sons, and Tamar.
        LARRY “So if God didn’t punish Sodom for committing sin once we shouldn’t be surprised if He didn’t punish Lot and his daughters straightaway and the Lot and his family have nothing to do with the sins of Sodom, they didn’t participate in it..”
        REHMAN …D-did you just forget about Lot’s(a.s) wife turning into a pillar of salt? pretty sure she turned back only once…
        And like I said earlier what about Judahs sons? They were each struck down for being wicked only in response to recent singular actions.

        Let us remember why we are talking about all these people… I said what Mohamed claimed that God told him cant be true because God doesn’t tell people to do something that will cause them to sin… God punishing someone instantly or not has nothing to do with the topic… The topic is can God tell someone to sin? not does God punish our sin instantly . If you want to condemn God’s way of doing things then you will have to be honest and consistent with it… Like I said before we have seen so many different cases of where God punish some people instantly for committing sin once, some after several times of warning and some never in this world. I don’t understand why you think God did something wrong.. If God choose to punish 9 people out of 10 for committing the same sin and forgive 1 who can question God? We already know God forgives and we know he doesn’t tell people to sin because he hate sin. Its like me asking why God make some people rich and some poor.. that doesn’t make God not a good God.

        REHMAN You seem to have confused my point. I was referring to Hosea and his not judging a known prostitute. Also there is a difference between private sins that affect only yourself and public sins that affect the community. Especially under the law of God.

        I am not sure if I understand you .. are you asking why Hosea didn’t judge Gomer? If that’s the question… its not Hosea’s job to carry out judgment on people that sin… They have King and authority to do that.. Hosea is just a prophet. Like I said before the main reason God told Hosea to do what he did is because of the way the whole country has been living in sin and no one is doing anything about it. There is nothing for Hosea to judge if God didn’t tell him to marry Gomer He will not have anything to do with her and no where bible says Hosea like what Gomer was doing..

        REHMAN If you believe as you said you did that Jesus(a.s) was not fully 100% God or divine during the incarnation then that’s against orthodoxy and hence either you or they are wrong concerning this.
        LARRY “What they said and what I said is the same”
        REHMAN No it’s not. They do not believe that the divine nature became less God during the incarnation.(Well I mean they SAY they don’t but I would argue that in practice thats where their theology leads to. But I don’t see the point of discussing that with a heretic.)
        LARRY “everyone else in Christendom you are talking about if you ask them why did Jesus says only Father know the hour they will say because he empty himself”
        REHMAN Well more precisely they would either say it was the human nature talking or his knowledge was “veiled.” Both have their problems

        If you read our conversation you will see clearly that you contradict yourself .. I said What they said and what I said is the same You said No its not, They do not believe that the divine nature became less God during the incarnation, with what I said it makes me a heretic but You would argue that in practice that’s where their theology leads.. so according to your argument what they said and what I said is the same, but you said No its not when I said what they said it’s the same as what I said … and you continue to say if they were asked why did Jesus says only Father know the hour they will either say it was the human nature talking or his knowledge was “veiled.. You are still saying the same thing I said… so I didn’t say anything that they didn’t agree with… Like I said before I am not saying anything they didn’t say or believe so if you want to say I am a heretic not a problem.. I just showed you how you agreed that the same people you said they consider me heretic are saying the same thing I said..

        Now let me tell you what you don’t understand about this especially when I said what they said and what I said is the same.. In Matthew 16:13-16 Jesus asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I am?” So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, “But who do you say that I am? Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God…. As you can see people call him different names but he never correct anyone of them but He asked his disciples just to see if they truly understand or know who He is… when Peter answered He acknowledge that Peter was right .. He didn’t just keep quite … so when the Orthodox people you are talking about say Jesus is God and possess all the attributes of God its because they know 100% The word is who became Jesus, which means they are the same so it doesn’t matter if Jesus can eat fish and the Word doesn’t eat fish they are both the same, if the Word know the Hour and Jesus don’t , they are both the same… and that’s exactly why I use the example of Us human being … Muslims Believe a person has physical body and Soul and both are the same.. Soul operates in Spiritual realm while physical body operates in Physical realm. We know our physical body eat food and out soul doesn’t so how come they are the same… or is that our Physical body is 80% of out soul ? are they are not 100% the same.. This is why I ask those questions about Spirt , Soul and Body to see what you believe according to Quran but for some reason you use question to answer the question…

        I’ll answer these questions only on the condition you can substantiate you’re separation of the human identity into those parts/categories from the scripture you believe in.
        1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
        Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell
        James 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead
        I hope this bible verses answers your question and also you can answer mine too..

        REHMAN Also Larry you have on multiple different comments stated you want to move on from this topic and that you other concerns about the religion of Islam. In a sperate comment and when you have the time could please say what they are?
        I want us to finish one topic first before we start another so that we can all learn together.. Starting a new topic will be too confusing

        Like

      51. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Let us remember why we are talking about all these people… I said what Mohamed claimed that God told him cant be true because God doesn’t tell people to do something that will cause them to sin… God punishing someone instantly or not has nothing to do with the topic… ”

        The point if you remember was showing you’re scriptures depiction of God’s implied approval. So are you gonna renege on you’re point that God didn’t punish Sodom straight away and only after accruing sins? Look like I keep saying wen God decides to directly and instantly punish someone or a group of people for certain sin, it is at the very least odd for Him to not continue to punish or show disapproval at the additional sins that were in part a direct result of said judgment in the first place. But even if you deny the implied approval of these sins then let’s take it to a different route. Is killing babies a sin for people? Yes or no?

        “If you read our conversation you will see clearly that you contradict yourself .. I said What they said and what I said is the same You said No its not, They do not believe that the divine nature became less God during the incarnation, with what I said it makes me a heretic but You would argue that in practice that’s where their theology leads.. so according to your argument what they said and what I said is the same, but you said No its not when I said what they said it’s the same as what I said …”

        If read our conversation carefully and with a logical mind you see it’s not a contradiction on my part. The fact remains they explicitly state that the divine nature and substance didn’t lose the qualities of God or changed during the incarnation. The fact that their theological stance is untenable is not somehow tacit agreement with the heresies they explicitly denounce even if they unintentionally or accidently resort to heresy themselves. To give another example, no Christian would say they believe in multiple god’s and would denounce any and all Christian sect that clearly say that they do believe in multiple god’s even though I would argue that that is the natural conclusion of Christian theology.

        ” The word is who became Jesus, which means they are the same so it doesn’t matter if Jesus can eat fish and the Word doesn’t eat fish they are both the same, if the Word know the Hour and Jesus don’t , they are both the same…”

        Actually it does matter because I’m pretty sure the rhetoric your using amounts to separating the natures of the hypostatic union and giving personhood to the human nature which is another heresy. Let me ask you another question Larry, when the word was made flesh and incarnated into a infant that was born did the second person of the trinity who is also suppose to be divine experience a human birth? When his mother(ra) kissed his face did she also kiss the face of God? The reason I ask is because you keep comparing our composition to that of the hypostatic union and that simply cannot work since Jesus(a.s) is said to be unique in being one person with two natures. Which is totally different from us having only the one human nature regardless in the difference in composition in some of our components.

        Thank you for the references I asked for. I truly appreciate it. Can I ask you to define what you mean by “spirit” and “soul”?

        Liked by 1 person

      52. Larry

        REHMAN The point if you remember was showing you’re scriptures depiction of God’s implied approval. So are you gonna renege on you’re point that God didn’t punish Sodom straight away and only after accruing sins? Look like I keep saying wen God decides to directly and instantly punish someone or a group of people for certain sin, it is at the very least odd for Him to not continue to punish or show disapproval at the additional sins that were in part a direct result of said judgment in the first place. But even if you deny the implied approval of these sins then let’s take it to a different route. Is killing babies a sin for people? Yes or no?

        Actually it all started by what Mohamed said Allah reveal to him…I am not going back on my point that God didn’t punish Sodom straight away …It seems you don’t understand me.. Every example or explanation that I gave is to prove that God is not partial and doesn’t have just 1 way of doing things….He can decides to punish 9 people out of 10 and leave the remaining 1 till judgement day

        REHMAN Is killing babies a sin for people? Yes or no?

        It all depends on when, how and who etc…. I will give some bible verse to support after I explained myself…. If you remember I said if Zaid was a non believer I can understand…. Killing babies it’s a SIN 100% but it depends on the Era, on if God commanded it and why doing it..

        Exodus 4:23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”

        1 Kings 15:29 It came about as soon as he was king, he struck down all the household of Jeroboam. He did not leave to Jeroboam any persons alive, until he had destroyed them, according to the word of the Lord, which He spoke by His servant Ahijah the Shilonite

        1 Kings 16:12 Zimri destroyed all the household of Baasha, according to the word of the Lord, which He spoke against Baasha through Jehu the prophet,

        2 Kings 10:17 When he came to Samaria, he killed all who remained to Ahab in Samaria, until he had destroyed him, according to the word of the Lord which He spoke to Elijah.

        1 Samuel 15:2-3 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

        REHMAN Actually it does matter because I’m pretty sure the rhetoric your using amounts to separating the natures of the hypostatic union and giving personhood to the human nature which is another heresy.

        Again you call it heresy but I have told you what I think about heresy which I prove myself to be right …. That word Heresy don’t mean anything to me.. The same people that call it heresy will still agree with my point so it doesn’t matter to me so far I am not saying what bible didn’t say.. Always remember bible is the ultimate .

        REHMAN Let me ask you another question Larry, when the word was made flesh and incarnated into a infant that was born did the second person of the trinity who is also suppose to be divine experience a human birth?

        I am not sure if I understand your question.. Christians believe Jesus is God… He was born by Marry… I am not sure on how to answer you.. Christians never claim Jesus just appear from no where ,He was born just like everyone else by their mother only with the exception of having sex with a man…

        REHMAN When his mother(ra) kissed his face did she also kiss the face of God? The reason I ask is because you keep comparing our composition to that of the hypostatic union and that simply cannot work since Jesus(a.s) is said to be unique in being one person with two natures. Which is totally different from us having only the one human nature regardless in the difference in composition in some of our components.

        This is the reason why I asked those questions that you haven’t answered … I will wait till you answer them then we can cross check our understanding of Spiritual and Physical world… You are doing the same thing I said people that says something is Heresy do, but I guess you don’t know that… So please answer those questions I asked according to your understanding and believe .

        REHMAN Thank you for the references I asked for. I truly appreciate it. Can I ask you to define what you mean by “spirit” and “soul”?

        Like I said before this is the reason I asked those questions .So please answer those questions I asked according to your understanding and believe it will make it easier for both of us, So that you don’t say its heresy…

        Is your soul/Spirt and body different entity ?
        Does your Soul/Spirit and Body posses the same attributes ?
        If your body sin does your Soul/Spirit get punished or just your body get punished
        Do you have Spirit, Soul and Body or Just Soul and Body
        and the most important one Are you Body ? or are you Soul ?or Are you both together ?

        Like

      53. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “I am not going back on my point that God didn’t punish Sodom straight away …It seems you don’t understand me.. Every example or explanation that I gave is to prove that God is not partial and doesn’t have just 1 way of doing things….He can decides to punish 9 people out of 10 and leave the remaining 1 till judgement day”

        And I’m saying that such a method is odd to say the least especially when said sins are a direct result of a misunderstanding occurring due to said judgement. I don’t think we’re gonna agree on this.

        “It all depends on when, how and who etc…. I will give some bible verse to support after I explained myself…. If you remember I said if Zaid was a non believer I can understand…. Killing babies it’s a SIN 100% but it depends on the Era, on if God commanded it and why doing it..”

        …I’m sorry but WHAT?! We’re talking about infants here. Who can’t exactly be categorized as believer or disbeliever. What difference does the era make? And “if God commanded it”? So now it’s okay for you if God commands something you think is sinful…

        “Exodus 4:23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”

        Uh this verse is about God not people.

        “Again you call it heresy but I have told you what I think about heresy which I prove myself to be right”

        How?

        “…. That word Heresy don’t mean anything to me..”

        Well yeah obviously. That’s how most heretics react.

        “Always remember bible is the ultimate .”

        Except the bible doesn’t agree with either of your interpretations.

        “Like I said before this is the reason I asked those questions .So please answer those questions I asked according to your understanding and believe it will make it easier for both of us, So that you don’t say its heresy…”

        In order for me to attempt to answer your questions I need to know what you mean by “spirit” and “soul”. How do you define them? And how are they different from each other?

        Liked by 1 person

      54. Donkey Larry thinks killing a baby in a particular era was okay. This, folks, is why Christianity is an evil religion. It rots the brain and makes normally reasonable people into unreasonable zombies. When a person decides murdering a baby is not a sin, they have crossed the line between sanity and insanity.

        Liked by 2 people

      55. Larry

        I just saw that I didn’t respond to this , I must have missed it because of all the other messages in my inbox..

        LARRY “It all depends on when, how and who etc…. I will give some bible verse to support after I explained myself…. If you remember I said if Zaid was a non believer I can under-stand…. Killing babies it’s a SIN 100% but it depends on the Era, on if God commanded it and why doing it..”
        REHMAN …I’m sorry but WHAT?! We’re talking about infants here. Who can’t exactly be categorized as believer or disbeliever. And “if God commanded it”? …

        I don’t understand why you are particular about infant …. Killing is wrong in general … what difference does it make if you kill 95yrs old innocent man and 1hr infant baby?… I really don’t get your point about infant… according to God’s commandment not our emotion 6th com-mandment You shall not murder … it didn’t specify infant , adult or teenager.. You shall not murder.
        In case I am missing something here, can you tell me the difference between killing an infant and 100yrs innocent man? And to add bonus @Stew said that “You are assuming this a bad thing when it may be good simply because you don’t know the varia-bles. AN easy example is one of these children might grow up to be the next Hitler. God caused them to die so that they could be in Heaven etc” to him infant dying in warzone is could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven .. Do you agree with him?

        REHMAN What difference does the era make?

        Era of Moses is different from Era of Jesus … Before the Era of Jesus God commands his peo-ple to fight against God’s enemies or people that disobey God. During the Era of Jesus till now we are to forgive people and let God be the judge .. So if anyone kill anybody in the name of God now is committing a BIF FAT SIN.

        REHMAN So now it’s okay for you if God commands something you think is sinful
        Killing and fighting people God called His enemy is not a sin, especially if God commands the killing/fighting … since when fighting/killing God’s enemy a sin in OT if you can show me then I will understand? So to answer your question in OT testament Killing or fighting enemy of God is not consider as a sin.

        LARRY “Exodus 4:23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”

        REHMAN Uh this verse is about God not people.

        Yes is about God you are right, but when God commands people to kill is not about the people its about God too… what is the difference ?

        LARRY Again you call it heresy but I have told you what I think about heresy which I prove myself to be right”

        REHMAN How?

        You agreed that the people that came up with the word heresy will commit heresy too if you ask them about how Jesus didn’t know the hour. So how can it make sense if Pot is calling kettle black?

        LARRY That word Heresy don’t mean anything to me..”

        REHMAN Well yeah obviously. That’s how most heretics react.

        Lol again that word don’t mean a thing if the people are doing the same.. But I can tell you I understand what they meant by heresy, its different to what you think it is…

        LARRY “Always remember bible is the ultimate .”

        REHMAN Except the bible doesn’t agree with either of your interpretations.

        Which interpretations are you talking about?

        LARRY “Like I said before this is the reason I asked those questions .So please answer those questions I asked according to your understanding and believe it will make it easier for both of us, So that you don’t say its heresy…”

        REHMAN In order for me to attempt to answer your questions I need to know what you mean by “spirit” and “soul”. How do you define them? And how are they different from each other

        You are telling me to answer your question for you …Like I said according to your understanding and believe not according to what I think or mean… I am sure you know what Spirit .. soul and body is through .. Quran and other ways..
        I just want you to answer the questions according to your own believe and understanding.

        Like

      56. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “I don’t understand why you are particular about infant …. Killing is wrong in general … what difference does it make if you kill 95yrs old innocent man and 1hr infant baby?… I really don’t get your point about infant…”

        …You can’t be serious… The difference is obvious. A 95 year old man can still attack and attempt to harm you or perhaps commit a sin worthy of death as odd and rare as that may be. In what world is an born infant able to harm others or commit sins that they may consider it justifiable to kill them?

        “And to add bonus @Stew said that “You are assuming this a bad thing when it may be good simply because you don’t know the varia-bles. AN easy example is one of these children might grow up to be the next Hitler. God caused them to die so that they could be in Heaven etc” to him infant dying in warzone is could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven .. Do you agree with him?”

        I have not since the original comment so i don’t know if you are quoting him correctly. But assuming you are Stew is referencing Islamic texts not biblical ones. In principle I personally don’t have a problem with God as creator or his direct divinely appointed agents such as angels or prophets from taking the lives of infants and children. There are however 2 major problems with the biblical presentation of taking the lives of infants and children.

        1.Unless I am mistaken there is NOWHERE in the bible where it says God orders the taking of an infants life due to the potential evil they would have committed. In fact you see the very OPPOSITE. God in the bible orders the killing or saving of a people based on what their ancestors did. see 1 Samuel 15:2-6.

        2. The fact is it’s one thing for God, His angels, or even His prophets doing something on the one hand and his followers, the laypeople doing something on the other hand. In order to carry out a divine commandment to kill a human baby, one must either be a complete saint, or the very opposite—an unbalanced, mentally unstable person whose soul is given to evil inclinations. I don’t believe God can place burdens on us greater than we can bear. For God to make such demands of laypeople would be unjust, however, because it is indeed a burden greater than we can bear.

        Anyway you already admitted that killing babies is a sin and God in the bible ordered to do just that. Ergo we have an example of God in the bible explicitly ordering sin.

        “Era of Moses is different from Era of Jesus … Before the Era of Jesus God commands his peo-ple to fight against God’s enemies or people that disobey God. During the Era of Jesus till now we are to forgive people and let God be the judge .. So if anyone kill anybody in the name of God now is committing a BIF FAT SIN.”

        “Killing and fighting people God called His enemy is not a sin, especially if God commands the killing/fighting … since when fighting/killing God’s enemy a sin in OT if you can show me then I will understand? So to answer your question in OT testament Killing or fighting enemy of God is not consider as a sin.”

        I was unaware that infants were on the front lines against God and his people…

        “Yes is about God you are right, but when God commands people to kill is not about the people its about God too… what is the difference ?”

        Already showed the difference in the beginning of this reply.

        ” You agreed that the people that came up with the word heresy will commit heresy too if you ask them about how Jesus didn’t know the hour. So how can it make sense if Pot is calling kettle black?”

        I already explained this with my example of a Christian sect that openly believes in three Gods. Refer back to it cause I don’t want to repeat myself.

        “You are telling me to answer your question for you …Like I said according to your understanding and believe not according to what I think or mean… I am sure you know what Spirit .. soul and body is through .. Quran and other ways..
        I just want you to answer the questions according to your own believe and understanding.”

        This is ridiculous. I’m not going to engage in guesswork in trying to determine what these terms mean to me when I don’t even know what they mean to begin with. Spirit and soul are words usually considered synonymous with each other which is whats making this difficult for me. Either explain what the difference between spirit and soul is or I’m not gonna answer.

        Liked by 1 person

      57. Larry

        REHMAN …You can’t be serious… The difference is obvious. A 95 year old man can still attack and attempt to harm you or perhaps commit a sin worthy of death as odd and rare as that may be. In what world is an born infant able to harm others or commit sins that they may consider it justifiable to kill them?

        Lol it seems you are not playing nice anymore, I know you already said In principle you personally don’t have a problem with God as creator or his direct divinely appointed agents such as angels or prophets from taking the lives of infants and children, and this why I respect you… I just want to respond in case of the people that is reading like @ mr.heathcliff… The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm… exactly the point no one know for sure if he will attack or attempt , same way no one knows if an infant will grow to become Hitler… Infant do grow they don’t remain infant forever … Goliath was once an infant .. and lastly there is no difference in killing an infant and innocent 95yrs old man.. God’s commandment is You Shall not Murder…

        REHMAN 1.Unless I am mistaken there is NOWHERE in the bible where it says God orders the taking of an infants life due to the potential evil they would have committed. In fact you see the very OPPOSITE. God in the bible orders the killing or saving of a people based on what their ancestors did. see 1 Samuel 15:2-6.

        You right have not seen where it says that… to be honest it doesn’t really matter as we all know ,God is all knowing so if those infant will be come enemy of God tomorrow or not, He knows why He ordered it and again like what @Stew said it could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven . I am sure some of you must have seen this before Deuteronomy 5:9 the very first Commandment you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. So why do you think what God is doing is bad.. Do you know why Israelite was in Egypt for more than 400yrs? … Also if you read 2 Kings 24 you will see how God use King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to attack King Jehoiakim of Judah..

        REHMAN The fact is it’s one thing for God, His angels, or even His prophets doing something on the one hand and his followers, the laypeople doing something on the other hand. In order to carry out a divine commandment to kill a human baby, one must either be a complete saint, or the very opposite—an unbalanced, mentally unstable person whose soul is given to evil inclinations. I don’t believe God can place burdens on us greater than we can bear. For God to make such demands of laypeople would be unjust, however, because it is indeed a burden greater than we can bear.

        I think you are saying this because you are reading bible and judging it based on the things around you now.. Judges 14:6 Samson killed a lion with his bare hands and 1 Samuel 17:34-36 David attacked lion too … apart from this 2 who else do we know that killed lion with their bare hands? And if anyone come out today and said God gave me power I can kill lion with my bare hands, we will think that’s crazy… Like I said before 2 Kings 24 you will see how God use King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to attack King Jehoiakim of Judah.. King Nebuchadnezzar doesn’t worship God at that time but God used him to punish Judah that are people of God.. God spoke to Samuel, But Samuel alone cant fight the whole Amalek if we were to go with only Angel and prophets should be able to carry out divine commandment … I don’t see anywhere Mohamed went to fight war against a whole nation alone in Quran, does that mean everyone that follows Mohamed are prophets too? So when you say laypeople are you talking about someone following God’s command or what? The moment you are following God’s commands I don’t see you as a layperson ..

        REHMAN Anyway you already admitted that killing babies is a sin and God in the bible ordered to do just that. Ergo we have an example of God in the bible explicitly ordering sin.

        Lol nice try… We all know killing is a sin but like I said it depends .. the people God ordered to be killed are his enemies and God already said in his first commandment Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. so you cant call that a sin… only if you can prove those people didn’t do anything wrong nor their Fathers…

        LARRY “Killing and fighting people God called His enemy is not a sin, especially if God commands the killing/fighting … since when fighting/killing God’s enemy a sin in OT if you can show me then I will understand? So to answer your question in OT testament Killing or fighting enemy of God is not consider as a sin.”
        REHMAN I was unaware that infants were on the front lines against God and his people

        I hope I have answered this but I will just do it again.. 1. The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm, 2 like what @Stew said it could be a way of God preventing another Hitler or for them to be in heaven 3. Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. and Another 1 to add maybe if every is dead there no one to take care of the infants.

        LARRY You are telling me to answer your question for you …Like I said according to your understanding and believe not according to what I think or mean… I am sure you know what Spirit .. soul and body is through .. Quran and other ways.. I just want you to answer the questions according to your own believe and understanding.”
        REHMAN This is ridiculous. I’m not going to engage in guesswork in trying to determine what these terms mean to me when I don’t even know what they mean to begin with. Spirit and soul are words usually considered synonymous with each other which is what’s making this difficult for me. Either explain what the difference between spirit and soul is or I’m not gonna answer.

        I didn’t ask you to guess.. I only want to know what you know and believe .. I believe if a Muslim ask you the same question your answer will be different .. but its cool you don’t have to answer I am not forcing. You have already answer without answering .

        In conclusion you seems to be an honest person, the way you respond not a lot of Muslims will say personally they don’t have problem with God as creator or his direct divinely appointed agents such as angels or prophets from taking the lives of infants and children when you are talking about an incident in the bible …But for everyone reading this ..the double standard is too much.. and to be honest except for we are honest in what we do we might not know the truth.. God knows our heart, if we do this for money, showing off, to prove to oneself that we are doing the right thing or whatever reason it might be that is not related to finding out the truth .. we will all be judged accordingly ..if we are always double standard every time we talk about our beliefs … If you want to know the truth be honest with your approach whatever you will do to Bible do it to Quran if you don’t do that then you are not an honest person.

        Like

      58. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm… exactly the point no one know for sure if he will attack or attempt , same way no one knows if an infant will grow to become Hitler… Infant do grow they don’t remain infant forever … Goliath was once an infant .. and lastly there is no difference in killing an infant and innocent 95yrs old man.. God’s commandment is You Shall not Murder…”

        You’re comparing the judgement of a 95 year old man actually committing a crime/sin with the possibility of an infant doing said action. They are not the same.

        “You right have not seen where it says that…”

        Glad you agree/ admitted it.

        “to be honest it doesn’t really matter as we all know ,God is all knowing so if those infant will be come enemy of God tomorrow or not”

        What the?! It does matter! The point is not only do not have any scripture that says God ordered the deaths of a people including infants due to their future actions but you have the exact opposite where God allegedly orders the destruction or salvation of a people based on what their ancestors did. This would be like if during the second coming Jesus(a.s) asked you to kill german babies and children for their ancestors actions against the Jewish people. Would you do that Larry?

        “I think you are saying this because you are reading bible and judging it based on the things around you now.. Judges 14:6 Samson killed a lion with his bare hands and 1 Samuel 17:34-36 David attacked lion too … apart from this 2 who else do we know that killed lion with their bare hands? And if anyone come out today and said God gave me power I can kill lion with my bare hands, we will think that’s crazy…”

        So are you saying God strengthened these laypeople by giving them the mental fortitude to kill babies and children?

        “Like I said before 2 Kings 24 you will see how God use King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to attack King Jehoiakim of Judah.. King Nebuchadnezzar doesn’t worship God at that time but God used him to punish Judah that are people of God.”

        God using His power to allow or even manipulate/control other nations to attack as judgement is completely different from Him personally ordering something to people.

        “God spoke to Samuel, But Samuel alone cant fight the whole Amalek if we were to go with only Angel and prophets should be able to carry out divine commandment … I don’t see anywhere Mohamed went to fight war against a whole nation alone in Quran, does that mean everyone that follows Mohamed are prophets too? So when you say laypeople are you talking about someone following God’s command or what? The moment you are following God’s commands I don’t see you as a layperson ..”

        Fighting in war and killing babies and children are completely different.

        “Lol nice try… We all know killing is a sin but like I said it depends .. the people God ordered to be killed are his enemies and God already said in his first commandment Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. so you cant call that a sin… only if you can prove those people didn’t do anything wrong nor their Fathers…”

        Babies can’t really do anything wrong. Especially against God.

        “and Another 1 to add maybe if every is dead there no one to take care of the infants.”

        …That’s why the holy people of God following his commands should have taken them in.

        Like

      59. Larry

        REYMAN You’re comparing the judgement of a 95 year old man actually committing a crime/sin with the possibility of an infant doing said action. They are not the same.

        I never said a 95 yrs old that is committing a crime/sin… I said what is the difference between an innocent 95yrs old man and 1hr old infant.. Then I said the way you think an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm.. the reason why you are pointing out infant is because of our moral values they are innocent which it doesn’t mean if you are 100yrs or infant so far you are innocent you are innocent … Also if for some reason everything I said you didn’t buy it what about Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. That is the first commandment maybe I should ask you too the same question before I continue responding to you…do you think 10 commandment in the OT is real or fake? Maybe this can settle everything for us

        Like

      60. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        “Also if for some reason everything I said you didn’t buy it what about Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me.. That is the first commandment maybe I should ask you too the same question before I continue responding to you…do you think 10 commandment in the OT is real or fake? Maybe this can settle everything for us”

        I accept the core meaning of the 10 commandments but not necessarily how they are written in the bible.

        Like

      61. Larry

        Good,

        Do you believe this to be true of what God said to Moses? if you don’t believe it what proof do you have to say it not correct? did Jews says its not right? as you know they follow Moses Law from generation to generation

        Deuteronomy 5:6-9

        I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
        7 ‘You shall have no other gods [b]before Me.
        8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow[c] down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, [d]visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me

        Like

      62. Larry

        LARRY “The way an innocent 95yrs man CAN attack and still attempt to harm is the same way an infant CAN grow to attack and attempt to harm… exactly the point no one know for sure if he will attack or attempt , same way no one knows if an infant will grow to become Hitler… Infant do grow they don’t remain infant forever … Goliath was once an infant .. and lastly there is no difference in killing an infant and innocent 95yrs old man.. God’s commandment is You Shall not Murder…”

        REHMAN You’re comparing the judgement of a 95 year old man actually committing a crime/sin with the possibility of an infant doing said action. They are not the same.

        So sorry I have been really busy and have been spending a little time I have to respond to @QB
        The reason why I brought out Deuteronomy 5:9 am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me. Muslims believe in Moses and Jews do too.. so if we can establish Deuteronomy 5:9 is not fake then you should not have problem about what God said in 1 Samuel 15.. He has already said what He can do it doesn’t mean He will do it all the time but its what He can do…read it again then you will understand…. Its not like God is saying every time this happen I will do this… The thing about this conversation is we just have to be honest in our heart when we approach things of God…. Let me ask you this question is it every time God Visit the iniquity of fathers upon the children ? we know God is merciful .. He has shown mercy on to so many of us and He has punished so many too…. So if you want to be honest with this conversation the only reason you can say what God did contradict what He stands for is
        1 if Deuteronomy 5:9 is fake ,
        2 If infants that are born in war zone and died are different from the ones that God ordered to be killed.. I only use War Zone and the Amalekite’s because you believe that those infant from 1 Samuel 15 are innocent even though God consider the People his Enemy and War zone it doesn’t matter who is fighting who I believe no infant wants to be born in a war zone…
        3 why did Israelite have to be slaves in Egypt for 400yrs ? have you researched that?
        4 why did God take Jonathan’s Crown and gave it to David?
        5 if its good for an infant to become orphan because of the iniquity of parent?
        6 Quran 29:21 must be fake to Muslim not that I agree with it because bible already told us in Roman 9:15 which we believe

        Like I said we Just have to be honest with our approach then we will not be trying to find fault where there is none. Muslims are just trying to discredit Bible that’s why they emphasis on INFANT to catch people’s attention as if Killing an innocent Old Man is different from killing an Infant… Thou shalt not MURDER that is what God said…. It doesn’t matter if its INFANT or 100Yrs MAN… Or please tell me this then maybe I will totally understand you…. If you kill an innocent 100yrs Man and Innocent Infant is there a different punishment for it?

        As I said to @QB yesterday Muslims are so confused and sorry to say brainwashed , According to Mohamed and Quran we serve the same God The Father but we Christian are just taking Jesus as God also that’s the difference … According to Mohamed and Quran the same God that we Christians believed that called Abraham, send Moses is the same God that send Mohamed…. But now when you argue you say that God is bad … that God is pagan… that God kill innocent people… that God allow Abraham to sin… is that what Mohamed and Quran taught you? Or is it something you taught yourself ….. According to Mohamed and Quran …. According to Quran and Mohamed is God of Abraham and Moses that Christians believe in is different from the God that send Mohamed?

        Like

      63. 🤣🤣 Donkey, we don’t serve the same god. While the same God revealed the Torah and Injil, and He sent all the prophets like Abraham and Moses and Jesus, you have turned the true God into a fake, pagan god. With your beliefs such as mass genocide, incest, rape, a mangod coming to earth…these are not our beliefs. We don’t believe they came from God. We believe they came from the devil. So the “God” you guys worship is not the True God. It is a satanic counterfeit. Get it donkey? In other words, your concept of “God” is not the same as ours, even though we both claim to worship the God of Abraham. I know this is a bit above your intellectual abilities, but the issue is more complex than you make it out to be.

        Like

      64. Lol, for all we know, Hosea could have made up the revelation because he had a thing for Gomer and didn’t want to see her executed for her crime. That’s a plausible interpretation of we follow donkey Larry’s own logic.

        Liked by 2 people

      65. Vaqas Rehman

        @Larry

        I somehow missed this golden tidbit.

        “I never said they had desire to do it before God told them but as soon as God told them what to do and they accept in their heart it comes their desire and again what God told them to do is not a SIN”

        There you have it guys! The prophets(a.s.) had gained the desire to walk around naked and marry a prostitute as soon as God told them to! Then let me ask you this question again Larry, how do you know they were true prophets and not making up revelations to fulfill their desires? Also as was shown before, intentional immodesty and not punishing a known fornicator under God’s law should both be considered sins.

        Liked by 2 people

      66. mr.heathcliff

        The filthy kristian piglit wrote:

        Lot’s daughter they think there is no man on the earth that’s why they decided to do what they did
        1 there is no intent of Lust they thought if there Father die that will be all for them, again bible didn’t say they continue having sex after which we could have said maybe they use an excuse them think there was no man to be sleeping with their father

        ////

        So were lots daughters having sex with their own sons because “there was no man left” ? Lol

        “Their is no intent of lust”

        So you saying that lots daughters did not become horny prior to having intercourse? They have to become horny not only with their father but their sons as well. Lol

        Liked by 2 people

      67. mr.heathcliff

        “At the time the Lot’s story was written He was long dead with his daughters so obviously its not written to encourage anyone at the time to do it or to justify himself, ”

        Yes encourage. If u are stuck on an ireland and no males around , bible does not disallow having intercourse with ur own children

        Liked by 1 person

      68. mr.heathcliff

        “Again I didn’t ignore this I said No one can say for sure that God will not punish them, not everyone that Sin on this earth get punished before they die. We all sin and not all of us God punish instantly. I believe you too sin and I am not sure God punish you immediately every time you sin so that is not double standard maybe we should wait and see what will happen on Judgement day. If we should go with your theory that they deserve to be punished ,Now prove me wrong that what God did by not punishing them immediately is double standard, if you can prove that every time we all sin we get punished immediately even including the bible, I mean every story that was written in the bible , including Sodom and Gomorrah if you cant prove it I think you are trying to find fault where there is none… I cant see any inconsistent in my God if you cant prove it.”

        pig , you are flooding this forum with your pig comments , why cant u go one point @ a time?

        where does the bible say that his daughters were punished at all? considering that the bible is a filthy book which lets the sinner off the hook and has someone else punished, where did it say his daughters or their father who allowed their daughters to make him drunk, were punished?
        your god is not just but unjust in his laws. people who want to rape angels get whacked, but people who want to rape their own father get….?

        Liked by 2 people

      69. mr.heathcliff

        “Oh and regarding the Jews allegedly being able to keep the Torah for 1600 years, you do know that the Bible itself says the Torah was lost? 😂😂 You are honestly one of the dumbest Crosstian donkeys I have ever come across”

        This kafir is vomitting hundreds of bs words which even the electronic space is saying “put a leash on this kafir , one POINT at a time”

        Who is going read through all of that vomit?

        if u box the kafir in a comments limit watch him struggle like a worm on fire

        Liked by 2 people

      70. stewjo004

        @ QB

        Speaking of faking revelations, Larry says God would never force a prophet to marry someone else and that it’s really his desire, so I guess we can conclude the prophet Hosea faked revelation to marry a prostitute:

        1Then the LORD said to me, “Go show love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and offer raisin cakes to idols.” 2So I bought her for fifteen shekels of silver and a homer and a lethech of barley.d 3Then I said to her, “You must live with me for many days; you must not be promiscuous or belong to another, and I will do the same for you.” (Hosea 3:1-3)

        I will now be Larry (ahem):

        “Why God marry believer to whore? She make love to other men then kiss prophet on mouth afterwards. What God allow these things? Don’t be emotional. Clearly fake prophet.”

        Liked by 2 people

      71. Larry

        Lol you people are very funny we are talking about Sin here come on guys… this is exactly why I said read my conversation with Rehman… When God told Hosea to marry a prostitute he didn’t take away his free will, its up to him to obey or not and Marrying a prostitute how is that a sin ? Hosea doesn’t need to fake revelation because its not a sin to marry a prostitute and that is exactly why I said Mohamed faked his revelation because he knew people will call him out on it. You guys need to stick to the point here and pls can we move on to something else please .. I have got a bigger one.

        Like

      72. 😂🤣 Hey donkey, you walked right into this one. You see what being ignorant of your filthy Bible does to you? It makes you look foolish.

        Read chapter 3, dummy. Your god told Hosea to go marry another woman, this time, a woman WHO IS ALREADY MARRIED! Your god made Hosea commit ADULTERY! 🤣😂

        “And the Lord said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins.””

        Oops. 😂

        Liked by 3 people

      73. Christians always proudly proclaim that their “holy” spirit guides them when spreading the gospels and debating others, well considering all the shit show we’ve seen over the years one can only wonder how much of a dumb@$$ their “holy” spirit must be

        Liked by 2 people

      74. mr.heathcliff

        Can someone please EXPLAIN to me how a simple question

        “Can A exist as A and not A @ the same time?”

        “Can a male consciousness exist as female consciousness at the same time?”

        Led to these MORONIC QUESTIONS?

        “Is your soul/Spirt and body different entity ?”

        we are asking,

        “How is an OMNISCIENT PERSON EXISTING AS FULLY BLIND HUMAN PERSON”

        this moron continues:

        “Does your Soul/Spirit and Body posses the same attributes ?
        If your body sin does your Soul/Spirit get punished or just your body get punished
        Do you have Spirit, Soul and Body or Just Soul and Body
        and the most important one Are you Body ? or are you Soul ?or Are you both together “

        Like

    4. mr.heathcliff

      “Clearly Allah see they are going trough rough time if we should go with your theory but According to Quran Allah has power to do anything but he decided to use the Power to give Zaynab to Mohamed instead of Making things good between between 2 lovers.”

      like yhwh could have given king david blanket and fire instead of his pimps finding night nurse vixen to keep him warm?

      1. who said they were “2 lovers” ?

      when christian women are in a relationship of abuse and fancy a muslim man to come and rescue them, they can’t get divorce because jesus said to them to turn the other cheek and continue to get abused. they cant get divorce either. my point is, if people by their own free will chose not to make marriage happy marriage, why should God force them to ?

      Liked by 2 people

    5. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…will help you guys to think straight and leave emotion aside..”

      This entire dialogue of yours has been based on emotion. Allow me to sum up your responses:

      You: I apostated not because I saw something wrong with Islam but because a voice in my head said to believe in the Bible.

      Us: What! Why do I think the Bible is reliable?

      You: Because…Jesus. I don’t like talking about this… oh you have Christian scholarship saying our text has historical errors and contradictions? Uhhh…Jesus is the way, blah blah blah”

      2.”….Are you saying everyone that Converted to Islam Studied and knew everything about Islam before they converted?”

      Convert here. You have a basic understanding of things and your ‘zeal’ has you learning everything you can about your new religion as you felt strongly enough to follow its teachings,so you want to know everything about this newfound truth. For you to have not even read the “gospels according tos…” is pretty bad.

      3.”…Do you think there are some Christians out there that know more about Quran and Hadith more than you do?”

      Absolutely positively, not.

      4.”…You know 100% there is no where in Bible that says God arranged for Lot to impregnate his daughters and Allowed to marry his sister…”

      Silence is approval. Especially something like the Bible that lists sins of someone and that’s why such and such happened.

      5. “….what I said about Mohamed Coveting…

      Except he (saw) didn’t. Again please show where he coveted a woman he had known since they were children and who he saw without a scarf multiple times?

      6. “…Lot didn’t commit any sin…”

      According to Rashi’s breakdown he was fully aware he was fornicating with his daughter (also how this happens two nights in a row is beyond me) but even ignoring that why weren’t the daughters punished is QB’s question. Note also that the QB is not arguing it’s okay to fornicate. His argument is what I said to you that “good character” is not a requirement for a prophet in your religion.

      7. “…David did and God dint not ignore it, David was punished for it…”

      QB is arguing:

      1. Why kill the son for what his father did?
      2. Why was David(as) not punished according to the law God Himself up. He used Nathan the prophet to expose him so why not enact the law on a KNOWN adulterer?

      8.”…If we should forget what Tabari said that explained in details…”
      Tabari’s history book is not a reliable source as he says himself in his introduction.

      9. “…Which means if Mohamed doesn’t fancy her like you all claimed He could have rejected her since during that time it was frown upon to marry your adopted son’s wife…”

      You literally just answered your own argument. But it’s okay, looking at your response you clearly don’t know the story so I’ll summarize:

      Muhammad(ﷺ) marries his cousin Zaynab(ra) to his adopted son Zaid (ra). They end up having a have a strained marriage and Zaid(ra) keeps complaining about her to Muhammad(ﷺ). Muhammad (ﷺ) tells him to be patient and stay God-fearing and to keep his wife. God reveals to Muhammad(ﷺ) that they are going to divorce and he(ﷺ) is going to be the one to marry her. Muhammad(ﷺ) is uncomfortable with it as it is culturally taboo. After they divorce God Himself marries Muhammad(ﷺ) and Zaynab (this was something she bragged to the other wives about) to show He does not care about cultural norms there is His law which “must be fulfilled”

      When you said to the man who was favored by God as well as you: “Hold on tight to your wife and stay God-fearing,” you hid in yourself, what God would later reveal, because you were afraid of the people, but it’s more fitting that you fear God. When Zaid no longer wanted to be with her, I gave her to you in marriage so that it wouldn’t be difficult for the believers to marry their adopted sons ex-wives who they were no longer intimate with. God’s commands must be carried out. (33:37)

      Muhammad(ﷺ) NEVER had a choice in the matter period point blank he(ﷺ) was actually uncomfortable and hid it which is why he was scolded in the verse. There was no “flirting” or “coveting” God straight up said you two are now married. Again he(ﷺ) knew her, saw her without hijab etc for their entire life. There’s no reason he(ﷺ) up and decided to “lust’ after her randomly one day,

      10. “…We all know most women often get more beautiful as they grow old.. could it be she was looking so beautiful now that she is married…”

      Lol what?

      11. “…So he already knew and have intention of carrying on with it that’s the reason he was scared to tell Zaid…”

      Wow you really don’t know this story. Again in no version was Zaid(ra) ever upset, the “people” in this verse were the hypocrites.

      12. “…Quran 4:35 its say And if ye fear a breach between them twain (the man and wife), appoint an arbiter from his folk and an arbiter from her folk. If they desire amendment Allah will make them of one mind. Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Aware…. What did Mohamed did when Zaid came to speak to him about Zaynab He said keep your wife…”

      Wow, your jumps in logic are simply…astounding. When he said “keep your wife” that is acting as an arbitrator genius 🤦The rest of your ramble just stems for yrom your lack of knowledge (as per usual)

      13. ‘…instead of Making things good between between 2 lovers…”

      Using this logic God can cure kids with bone cancer but doesn’t. Or decide not to order the death of surrendering women and children Amakelites. What is the point of this argument if you claim to believe in God?

      14. “…In The Hadeeth of Anas Zaynab used to boast to the wives of Mohamed she would say: Your households gave you in marriage, and Allah gave me in marriage from above the seven heavens. If you will not say this not true what I can see here Zaynab must have love her marriage for her to boast like that and If truly they were having problem and Allah want to get involve why not make peace between too lovers?”

      Dumb@$$ in that hadith she is reffering to her marriage to Muhammad not Zaid 🤦. So thank you for saying you agree she was happier in her marriage to Muhammad 💀💀💀

      15. “…you are choosing to follow evil and pretending you cant see this is evil…’

      You mean like this?

      So now, kill all the boys, as well as every woman who has had relations with a man, 18but spare for yourselves every girl who has never had relations with a man. (Numbers 31:17-18)

      Liked by 3 people

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “RESPONSE: What an absolute moron! We are not talking Ravi Zacharias, the late Christian pervert, here. We are talking about a Jewish scholar, RASHI”

        lol he confused ravi for rashi lol lol

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        “RESPONSE: Donkey Larry, you pathetic idiot, I already explained this. You god deliberately left Lot and his daughters confused and fearful. This is why Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED. In other words, your god set it up.
        Regarding punishment”

        And this seems to be the case with gomer and hosis.

        god would not only know that she would prostitute her self even after marriage, hosis in disobediance to the law of punishing prostitute would have to allow his promiscuous wife to prostitute herself. It is a “divine set up” as u said for an INTERNAL spiritual problem which yhwh cannot solve without having his own sin against his holy laws

        Like

    6. “MR QB I have told you before there is no way in this life I will run from replying you.. I am a bit busy you cant understand..”

      Donkey, you are already running. Your responses actually show that. You ignore the problems I have raised with your filthy book.

      I don’t give a rat’s tail about your time or how “busy” you are. When you come here and run your mouth with Googled arguments against Islam, you better be ready to put your money where you mouth is.

      “I still don’t know how to make you guys understand this but I pray God will help you guys to think straight and leave emotion aside in other for you to be able to think straight”

      😂 What a moron! Donkey, when will you understand that you are the one who needs to leave emotion aside. Seriously, what kind of an idiot thinks the voice in his head was God, and think that is a good reason to convert to a particular religion? There is no reason or logic involved. It’s a purely subjective and emotional reason. Plus, there are people whose conversion experiences are FAR more credible than your pathetic experience. Check out this brother: https://youtu.be/mk7vStacn8E.

      He had a miraculous medical experience, whereas you heard voices in your head. Who do you think is more credible?

      “I told you I started studying about Christianity more from 2012 when I was a Muslim and used to make fun of Christians then..”

      LOL!! So for 9 years, THIS is the extent of your knowledge? I can run circles around you with your pathetic Bible becuase I have studied it extensively! So, it seems to me that your “studying” was not that good.

      “Do you think there are some Christians out there that know more about Quran and Hadith more than you do? I mean Christians that have studied more than you do?”

      Maybe, donkey, but they are mostly academics. But these Christians are not more knowledgeable than the scholars of Islam. Also, they are not like you idiots, whose knowledge is limited to Googling and watching Christian princess videos. 🤣

      “Again I can see you putting emotion into your response .. You know 100% there is no where in Bible that says God arranged for Lot to impregnate his daughters and Allowed to marry his sister”

      LOL! You pathetic donkey! Do you think you know better than Irenaeus? Why didn’t your god stop Lot’s daughters? He had just WIPED out two towns for sexual depravity. Now all of a sudden, he decides to sit back and watch a prophet commit INCEST with his daughters?

      It all points to your god’s involvement. He could have easily stopped the whole thing from happening. The angels could have warned them. THEY DIDN’T.

      “Again what do I know like I said I have not finished reading the whole bible lol maybe you can send me the Chapter and Verse… You are saying this because of what I said about Mohamed Coveting and Allah know permits it..”

      LOL!! So since 2012, when you started “studying” and since 2017, when you converted to your pagan religion, you have not found the time to even READ your own SCRIPTURE? What kind of crosstian donkey are you?

      “1 Lot didn’t commit any sin .. His daughters got him drunk which is not his fault.. I still don’t know what you want God to punish him for.. Is it because He didn’t know his daughters were going to get him drunk and sleep with him he should be punished for not knowing?”

      LOL, how pathetic! You completely IGNORED the commentary by Rashi. Face it donkey. You are stuck. People with more knowledge of the Hebrew have demonstrated that Lot KNEW what was going on after the first daughter had slept with him! Let me repeat what Rashi said, you brainless idiot:

      ““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]”

      Now deal with this, stupid. Don’t run away. Lot knew what was happening and he STILL got drunk a second time. It seems like he was attracted to his daughters. And your god let it happen! SICK!

      “Lets flip it on you maybe you will understand … If armed gays guys burst into your house and tie you up rape you by force because they over power you… should you be judge for involving in Gay sex? Or be judge for not knowing some armed gay guys are coming to your house to rape you? Loool QB QB QB come on you know better lets stop wasting time talking about things that don’t relate to each other.”

      LOL, you filthy donkey! Is this the kind of filth that runs through your mind? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, given the extreme pornography in your filthy book. For example, what pervert wrote this:

      “Yet she increased her whoring, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after her lovers there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose issue was like that of horses. 21 Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed[a] your young breasts.””

      LOL, it seems like the Biblical authors were sexually-depraved perverts with very imaginative minds, just like you. 🤣😂

      Now, pay attention as I destroy your stupid analogy. It is completely dissimilar. If in your analogy, I had been drugged by some gay guys, that would be a better analogy, not being “tied up” and “raped”. It seems your filthy mind has these kinds of thoughts on a normal day. 🤢

      So, if I had been drugged, and was unaware, then I would not be judged, BUT if by the first encounter, I was aware that they were drugging me and I LET it happen again, then I WOULD be responsible. This is what happened with Lot. Again, so you don’t ignore it, let me repeat what Rashi said:

      “““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]”

      Plus, there are other problems with the story. If Lot had been so drunk that he was completely unaware of what was going on, it is very unlikely that he would have been able to get sexually excited (i.e., have an erection) and be able to ejaculate as well. Being under the influence of alcohol, especially at very high levels (which is what Lot was apparently at), it makes it harder to have an erection (https://www.healthline.com/health/alcohol-and-sex#males). Couple this with the fact that Lot was an old man, and it seems highly unlikely that he would have been able to have sex on two consecutive nights while drunk.

      Also, sexual excitation and ejaculation in males necessarily requires their physical and psychological involvement. If a man is completely unaware of what’s going on, it is unlikely that he will be excited and able to ejaculate. As Jane Knight explains in her book “The Completely Guide to Fertility Awareness” (2016, p. 33):

      “It [an erection] occurs as a result of a complex interaction of psychological , neural, vascular and endocrine factors. […]

      Successful sexual functioning requires more than just adequate reproductive physiology: it requires the right stimulation (physical and emotional) and the absence of stress symptoms, fatigue, distracting thoughts or feelings of hopelessness or depression. […]

      Most men have occasional times when they cannot get an erection: for example, if they are tired or stressed, or have drunk too much alcohol. Erectile problems are increasingly common with advancing age.”

      So, when we take all this into consideration, it is highly unlikely that Lot was a passive partner in the incestuous filth of Genesis 19. It necessarily required his awareness.

      “2 I didn’t see anywhere in bible that says God allowed Abraham to marry Sarah.. I believe what you mean by allowed is giving him permission to do so.. if you can show me where it says that in Bible then we can talk about it and Also there is no where that says it was a sin at that time.”

      LOL!! My goodness! Listen to yourself donkey! Your god NEVER said ANYTHING to Abraham as to why he married his SISTER! He was totally COOL with it, as if there was NOTHING wrong. He even told Abimilech to RETURN Sarah to Abraham. This is TACIT approval of the marriage!

      And of course it would be a sin! It would be a sin to normal people, but your diseased mind thinks it was not a sin. This is what the Bibull does to people. It makes them think disgusting acts like INCEST are not “sinful at that time”.

      Also, if you think marrying your sister was not a sin, then you shouldn’t have any problem with Lot impregnating his daughters either, but it seems to me that you want to absolve Lot and your god of any involvement. But if it was not a sin, then why would you need to work so hard to protect the honor of your filthy god? It seems you are okay with brothers and sisters marrying, but you think fathers and daughters shouldn’t. It’s too icky for you. That’s where you draw the line. 🤦‍♂️

      “3 Bible clearly says God punished David for committing SIN and also bible clearly says David admits he was wrong and pray for forgiveness .. So are you saying After admitting and pray for forgiveness the punishment is too small ? is that the problem? According to bible God chose to punish him by killing the Son.
      Again I hope I don’t have to explain this to you again Lot and Abraham didn’t commit any SIN , David did and God dint not ignore it, David was punished for it”

      You disgusting donkey. The punishment was supposed to be STONING to death for adultery, NOT killing an innocent child. This is not justice. This is your hypocritical god trying to find a way to spare the rich and powerful king. Anyone else would have been punished the way the law required, but the wealthy king was spared death and an innocent child was killed in his stead. You have to be a demon to think that this was “just”.

      Also, the fact remains that David was allowed to KEEP Bathsheba! So, all in all, your god VIOLATED THREE LAWS to spare David’s life:

      1. He did not “punish” David with stoning, in violation of the law.
      2. He killed the child to punish David, in violation of the law.
      3. He let the adulterers stay together in their ILLEGAL marriage, in violation of the law.

      “If we should forget what Tabari said that explained in details how Mohamed flirt with Zaynab since everything that is damaging to Mohamed Muslim consider it as not Authentic .in Quran 33:37 Allah said Mohamed hide which Allah was to bring to light meaning Mohamed already knew He was going to Marry Zaynab … Again it means Allah already reveal it to Mohamed that is the only way He could have know which Allah was to bring to light. Which means before Zaid and Zaynab divorce Mohamed already know in his mind Allah will GIVE Zaynab to me as a wife .. GIVE not FORCE.”

      You donkey, here is what Tabari said regarding one the of the versions of the story:

      “Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the
      heart of the Prophet . After that happened, she was made unattractive to the other man.14 So he came and said, “Messenger of God, I want to separate myself from my companion.” Muhammad asked: “What is wrong? Has anything on her part disquieted you?” “No, by God,” replied Zayd, “nothing she has done has disquieted me, Messenger of God, nor have I seen anything but good.” The Messenger of God said to him, “Keep your wife to yourself, and fear God.” That is [the meaning of ] the Word of God : Is “And when you said unto him on whom God has conferred favor and you have conferred favor, ‘Keep your wife to yourself, and fear God.’ And you did hide in your mind that which God was to bring to light.” You did hide in your mind (the thought] that “if he separates himself from her, I will marry her.””

      First of all, we see no “flirting”. This is just you perverts twisting the story due to your depraved minds. Second, it merely says that he had a fleeting THOUGHT that if Zayd were to divorce Zaynab, the prophet could then marry her. It doesn’t say he already knew that God would give Zaynab to him. It says that he had the thought, and that God was about to bring that to completion.

      Finally, as we already know, this story is not even authentic, so it doesn’t even matter. But as we can see, your pathetic twisting of the story is not even accurate. You’re a liar.

      “Why didn’t you ask yourself the real question If Mohamed had seen her many times and didn’t fancy her why all of a sudden he agree to marry her? We all know most women often get more beautiful as they grow old.. could it be she was looking so beautiful now that she is married and Mohamed noticed her or could it be what what Tabari said is true? Lol”

      LOL!! What on earth are you talking about, you donkey? Women get more beautiful “as they grow old”??? 😂😂 So you think a woman who is 30 will be more beautiful than when she was 20?

      Also, you ignorant donkey, there is another serious flaw in your idiotic theory. Zaynab had only been married to Zayd for about a year or so. Are you telling me that he became more attractive with a YEAR? 😂😂 If anything, her attractiveness would have been about the same as before she married Zayd.

      Face it, donkey. You are stuck. The prophet could have married Zaynab at any time. Instead, he married her to Zayd. Later on, they divorced, and the prophet married Zaynab. It was at this time that the law of hijab was revealed. It didn’t exist before then, so the prophet would have known and seen how beautiful she was.

      “Now lets talk about Allah’s involvement … What kind of god is Allah that decided to give a wife of believing Muslim that is ALIVE to another man , Believer that didn’t sin, that even Allah said he hath conferred favour unto him … is it that Allah doesn’t care about other believers except Mohamed ?Is it that Allah don’t have power to make things ok between Zaid and Zaynab? Clearly Allah see they are going trough rough time if we should go with your theory but According to Quran Allah has power to do anything but he decided to use the Power to give Zaynab to Mohamed instead of Making things good between between 2 lovers.”

      You disgusting donkey, first of all, they were not “lovers”. That implies fornication. They were a married couple. This isn’t your filthy Bible we’re talking about, okay donkey? 🤣

      Why wouldn’t Allah want Zaynab to be married and be happy with someone who is better than Zayd (may Allah be pleased with him)? As much as we love and respect Zayd, he was not better than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who was the greatest man to ever live. So, it is only natural that Allah married Zaynab to him. And Zaynab herself was happy with that arrangement.

      In contrast to Allah, your filthy god ARRANGED for Lot to sleep with his daughters. He ARRANGED for Sarah to be returned to Abraham from Abimilech, despite the fact that they were half-siblings. He ARRANGED for the adulterer David to STAY in his adulterous and illegal relationship with Bathsheba. What kind of twisted and sick god do you worship, donkey Larry?

      “In The Hadeeth of Anas Zaynab used to boast to the wives of Mohamed she would say: Your households gave you in marriage, and Allah gave me in marriage from above the seven heavens. If you will not say this not true what I can see here Zaynab must have love her marriage for her to boast like that and If truly they were having problem and Allah want to get involve why not make peace between too lovers?”

      LOL!! This proves that Allah brought MUCH GOOD from marrying Zaynab to the Prophet, you donkey! Thank you for proving it! Who cares what a donkey like you thinks when Zaynab herself was happy with the arrangement? An unhappy marriage was ended, and a happy marriage was then arranged
      .
      So in conclusion, get your head out of your rear-end, you demented donkey. Your filthy religion and its Bibull indict not only the Biblical patriarchs but your filthy god as well. In contrast, Allah brought much good with the marriage of Zaynab and Muhammad (pbuh). And it was all nice and legal. In contrast, your god BROKE the law to spare the wealthy king David, and he ARRANGED for INCEST between Lot and his daughters and Abraham and Sarah. Your god was a partner to sin.

      Now let me give you some sincere advice, all joking aside. Use your reason. Don’t mindlessly mimic the arguments of crosstian liars like cprincess. They will lead you to hell. Wake up, Larry. Come to your senses. The Bibull is full of evil and filthy stories. They are not from the true God, but from the devil. Repent and shun your evil religion and come back to the light of Islam.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “Lot knew what was happening and he STILL got drunk a second time. ”

        “So they made their father drink wine that night also”

        I think yhwh was fully enjoying incest action, if he didnt enjoy it why didnt he spike the drink with intoxicant killing ingredient? This is the 2nd time and both horny daughters are at it.

        I think the judge and jury must implicate yhwh here

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Larry

        @QB LOL, how pathetic! You completely IGNORED the commentary by Rashi. Face it donkey. You are stuck. People with more knowledge of the Hebrew have demonstrated that Lot KNEW what was going on after the first daughter had slept with him! Let me repeat what Rashi said, you brainless idiot:
        @QB ““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]”
        @QB Now deal with this, stupid. Don’t run away. Lot knew what was happening and he STILL got drunk a second time. It seems like he was attracted to his daughters. And your god let it happen! SICK!

        LARRY To be honest I have answered all your question and like I said before if you read my conversation with @Rehman you will find all your answers but it seems because you took your time to write that’s why you want direct response. And this exactly what I meant when I said it seems @Rehman have more knowledge with no disrespect to all of you.

        @QB So, if I had been drugged, and was unaware, then I would not be judged, BUT if by the first encounter, I was aware that they were drugging me and I LET it happen again, then I WOULD be responsible. This is what happened with Lot. Again, so you don’t ignore it, let me repeat what Rashi said:
        “““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]

        LARRY Let us go with your theory first to prove that you don’t know what you are saying .
        What you are saying is, Lot is guilty of sleeping with his second daughter the following day since he knew what had happen previous night. For what you are saying to make sense and to be the same as Allah telling Mohamed to commit sin, you will need to provide evidence for these questions below.
        1. Now with everything you have said and your theory,Show me where God says to Lot I want you to sleep with your daughter or daughters, Where God says to the daughter or daughters I want you to sleep with your father Or where it says God said I will not count it as a sin for you Lot and your daughters. Remember Allah promise Zaid’s wife to Mohammed

        2. Where God told them to go to the cave since you claimed it was God’s fault for them to end up in the situation they were in ..forgetting God spared their lives because of Abraham’s prayer

        If you can’t show me any of these evidence ,then God has nothing to do with their acts and didn’t do anything wrong, the same way when you QB commit any sin God has nothing to do with it and if you say why didn’t God punish them for their Sins .. I cant say if God will count or not count it as a sin for them but going with your theory, Firstly, God didn’t say they didn’t do anything wrong or what they did is right in the bible , Secondly, God doesn’t punish everyone’s sin here on earth, not every sin we committed God punish instantly here on earth … Or God punish all your sins here on earth QB ? if not why do you think He must do it when it comes to Lot and his daughters .. This is exactly what I explained to @Rehman and he agreed with me .. If you can prove God punish every sin everyone commit on this earth then I will say God did a bad in this case. Going back to Mohamed Quran says Allah revealed to him that He will marry Zaid’s wife while Zaid is still married to his wife and I said Allah is making Mohamed commit sin by revealing that to him .Can you see the Big difference ? I can show evidence from Quran that Allah told Mohamed directly what to do but in all the instances you gave there is no where God told anyone to do any of the crime you levelled against them in the bible, you are just trying to say God did this and he did that. This is again why I like what @Rehman is doing, He make sure he focus more on defending Mohamed and Allah didn’t do anything wrong. With what you do, You already admitted Mohamed committed the sin I levelled against him and Allah and you are trying to Justify them by using those instances in the bible that if God can do this with these people why cant Allah do the same with Mohamed. You are too focused in the story that you don’t know and now you still cant prove God has anything to do with it.

        QB Couple this with the fact that Lot was an old man, and it seems highly unlikely that he would have been able to have sex on two consecutive nights while drunk.
        LARRY Lol funny guy Lot was Old so you are comparing men of those days with men of these days? You are too funny QB what will 200yrs Man look like today? Remember people live up to over 200yrs in the old day and they still function well….

        @ QB Plus, there are other problems with the story. If Lot had been so drunk that he was completely unaware of what was going on, it is very unlikely that he would have been able to get sexually excited (i.e., have an erection) and be able to ejaculate as well. Being under the influence of alcohol, especially at very high levels (which is what Lot was apparently at), it makes it harder to have an erection (https://www.healthline.com/health/alcohol-and-sex#males).

        I have always say this and I have seen a lot of Christians say the same.. If Muslims can be honest and do exactly the same thing they do to bible to Quran they will see how Mohamed can never be a true prophet but because of your dishonesty that’s why its difficult for you to see the truth.. You sent me a website that supports Lot 98% and maybe 2% of what you said, clearly you have read everything the website says regarding Alcohol and Sex but yet you choose the 2% and disregarded the 98% that says you are wrong. I will now copy and paste what the website says to see if you are an honest person.

        QUESTION – Getting hard might be difficult ….as you can see it says Might not that it Will %100 .
        ANSWER Yep, “whiskey dick” is a thing. And it’s not just whiskey that’s to blame. Any alcoholic beverage can do it. Alcohol CAN affect your ability to get and maintain an erection. Drinking too much on the regular can also cause permanent damage and erectile dysfunction.

        QUESTION It can delay ejaculation, again CAN not will delay 100% they are not disputing it

        ANSWER It’s unlikely that a couple of drinks are going to prevent you from ejaculating, but drinking too much can. Excessive drinking can cause delayed ejaculation, which is taking longer than 30 minutes to reach orgasm and ejaculate with sexual stimulation. For some, it can mean not being able to ejaculate at all, according to the Mayo Clinic

        QUESTION — A little bit may make you hornier… Again Not 100% it May or May not

        ANSWER — Similar to the effect in females, having just a drink or two may increase sexual desire and arousal in males. Again, the key appears to be modest drinking. One drink — two if you weigh more than 190 pounds — may get you all hot and bothered. But any more than that and your sex drive and ability to get an erection make take a nosedive.

        QUESTION You’re more likely to take sexual risks — MORE LIKELY
        ANSWER — This can be a good thing, but not always. While alcohol has been LINKED to greater RISK-TAKING in males and females, it appears to be MORE of a driving factor for males. A drink or two can have a relaxing effect and help lower inhibitions when it comes to being sexual. This might make you MORE OPEN to exploring new things. But you can have too much of a good thing. The more you drink, the MORE RISKY your SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR is likely to be. Based on various studies, males are MORE likely to engage in RISKY SEXUAL BEHAVIOUR, such as intercourse without barrier protection, when under the influence.

        Common myths —While we’re on the topic of alcohol and sex, why not address some common rumours?

        QUESTION – Everyone looks hotter when you’re drunk—LOOKS

        ANSWER Believe it or not, quite a few studies have looked at the “beer goggles” effect, though their results are mixed. One 2014 study concluded that alcohol does seem to make people appear more attractive, particularly those who weren’t perceived as attractive to begin with. And it’s not just people. Landscapes appeared more attractive, too. Even male fruit flies seem to get less picky about their potential mates after being given alcohol. Science aside, it’s not hard to see why alcohol may lead to sleeping with SOMEONE YOU WOULDN’T normally bat an eyelash at. Drinking lowers inhibitions, increases socialization, and IMPAIRS JUDGMENT.

        QUESTION You can’t be sexually assaulted when you’re drunk— CAN’T BE
        ANSWER Absolutely NOT true. Having a few drinks — even a lot of drinks — isn’t a justification for unwanted sexual attention or activity. Alcohol doesn’t cause sexual assault, but it can be a contributing factor, according to research. Clear consent is necessary before any type of sexual contact. Alcohol doesn’t exempt anyone from that. Getting consent is extremely important when mixing alcohol and sex. Engaging in any type of sexual activity with someone who’s too drunk to give consent is sexual assault or rape.
        INCONCLUTION
        Intoxication vs. incapacitation
        Knowing the difference between intoxication and incapacitation is important when sex and alcohol are involved. An intoxicated person can still give consent as long as they’re able to make informed decisions without pressure or coercion. However, keep in mind that alcohol does reduce the ability to make an informed decision
        Best practices to keep in mind
        Alcohol can definitely MUDDY things up when it comes to engaging in sexual acts with someone else, but there are some things you can do

        LOL!! My goodness! Listen to yourself donkey! Your god NEVER said ANYTHING to Abraham as to why he married his SISTER! He was totally COOL with it, as if there was NOTHING wrong. He even told Abimilech to RETURN Sarah to Abraham. This is TACIT approval of the marriage!
        And of course it would be a sin! It would be a sin to normal people, but your diseased mind thinks it was not a sin. This is what the Bibull does to people. It makes them think disgusting acts like INCEST are not “sinful at that time”.

        Lol funny guy so what God has not consider a sin QB say it is… its funny that the Quran verse that we are talking about says the reason it was revealed is because some people think marrying your adopted son’s ex wife is a sin but Allah said not to him because he has not commanded it. Now you think I am wrong not to think Abraham commit any sin by marrying Sarah. Funny guy show me where bible says it is a sin when Abraham marry Sarah.

        Also, if you think marrying your sister was not a sin, then you shouldn’t have any problem with Lot impregnating his daughters either, but it seems to me that you want to absolve Lot and your god of any involvement. But if it was not a sin, then why would you need to work so hard to protect the honour of your filthy god? It seems you are okay with brothers and sisters marrying, but you think fathers and daughters shouldn’t. It’s too icky for you. That’s where you draw the line.
        Funny guy I am not defending God or Lot.. You compared the situation with what Allah and Mohamed did which is 2 different things totally . I am only trying to explain to you why you should or cannot compare the 2. Allah to Mohamed and God didn’t tell Lot.

        In conclusion .. I am not defending Lot I am only telling you what bible say, no where it says He did it intentionally for the first and second night. The way Muslim read bible is backwards, because you have been told bible and Christianity is not real. So I don’t blame you. Everyone you picked out of Bible not one You can say God told to commit sin which is the reason we are talking about Quran 33:37 what Mohamed claimed Allah told him. I have said before if Zaid divorce Zaynab then Mohamed claimed Allah told him to marry Zaynab I will not call it a sin , I will just say morally its wrong. So I will suggest you stop talking about other people and focus on defending what Mohamed claimed Allah told him to do.
        You asked for response I hope this answers your question

        Like

      3. Finally! Donkey Larry works up the courage to respond to me! Let’s see what we got:

        DONKEY: To be honest I have answered all your question and like I said before if you read my conversation with @Rehman you will find all your answers but it seems because you took your time to write that’s why you want direct response. And this exactly what I meant when I said it seems @Rehman have more knowledge with no disrespect to all of you.

        RESPONSE: LOL!! You pathetic creep! You stalled for 2 weeks and this is the best you can do now? Face it, donkey. You are clueless. Rashi was a Jewish scholar. He knew more about the Hebrew than me, Vaqas, or yourself. As a scholar, he realized that the Hebrew text in Genesis 19 IMPLICATES Lot in the incest. HE KNEW what was going on! You need to deal with this, instead of deflecting! So, go ahead. Deal with it. If the Hebrew text says Lot knew, then he was sinful, and your god was silent. WHY? Here is what Rashi said again. Stop trying to weasel your way out of this. It won’t work.😉

        ““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]”

        DONKEY: Let us go with your theory first to prove that you don’t know what you are saying .
        What you are saying is, Lot is guilty of sleeping with his second daughter the following day since he knew what had happen previous night. For what you are saying to make sense and to be the same as Allah telling Mohamed to commit sin, you will need to provide evidence for these questions below.
        1. Now with everything you have said and your theory,Show me where God says to Lot I want you to sleep with your daughter or daughters, Where God says to the daughter or daughters I want you to sleep with your father Or where it says God said I will not count it as a sin for you Lot and your daughters. Remember Allah promise Zaid’s wife to Mohammed

        RESPONSE: LOL!! You stupid donkey! I showed you the evidence from Rashi’s explanation! Get this through your thick head: THE HEBREW VOWELS IN THE TEXT INDICATE THAT LOT KNEW WHAT WAS HAPPENING!
        Also, the church father Irenaeus stated the Lot’s INCEST was DIVINELY ARRANGED! Who should we believe? The donkey Larry who hasn’t even read his silly Bibull, or the donkey Irenaeus, who was a learned Christian scholar? Hmmm….🤔

        Your pathetic “question” is ludicrous from the get-go. Your god didn’t have to say anything. He just had to ARRANGE it. Show me where he EVER condemned Lot or his daughters for their sex romp. After having just destroyed Sodom and Gamorah for their sexual crimes, your god was conspicuously silent for the sexual crimes of the Lot family. How interesting…

        DONKEY: 2. Where God told them to go to the cave since you claimed it was God’s fault for them to end up in the situation they were in ..forgetting God spared their lives because of Abraham’s prayer

        RESPONSE: LOL!! You dummy! You’re forgetting that the angel initially told Lot to “escape to the hills”. Read verse 17, stupid! So, it was perfectly natural for Lot to fear that Zoar would also be destroyed. Therefore, your god was at fault. He made Lot fearful because Zoar was originally slated to be destroyed. This is explained by the Jewish scholar Ramban (Nachmanides):

        “Rashi wrote, “Because it was near to Sodom.” This is not so. Rather, since it was one of the places upon which destruction had originally been decreed and it was only by Lot’s supplication that the angel exempted it because Lot could not make his escape to the mountain on that day, Lot now thought that the angel would no longer extend his request, for he now had sufficient time to make the escape to the mountain.264 This was why his daughter said, And there is not a man in the earth, for she thought that with her father’s departure from Zoar the city was destroyed.” (https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.19.30?lang=bi&with=Ramban&lang2=en)

        Even though the angel allowed Lot to stay in Zoar, he did not assuage Lot’s fear. It would have been very easy for your god to reassure Lot by sending the angel to Zoar, so that Lot would have stayed there. But instead, your god and his angel decided to be vague and deliberately left Lot in a state of confusion and fear.

        DONKEY: Firstly, God didn’t say they didn’t do anything wrong or what they did is right in the bible , Secondly, God doesn’t punish everyone’s sin here on earth, not every sin we committed God punish instantly here on earth …

        RESPONSE: Stupid donkey, your god’s SILENCE is part of the problem! Why didn’t he condemn Lot? Forget about punishing. Why is Lot’s story finished with him impregnating his daughters and there isn’t even a PEEP from your god?
        And you still have to deal with the fact that your god deliberately left Lot in a state of confusion.

        DONKEY: Going back to Mohamed Quran says Allah revealed to him that He will marry Zaid’s wife while Zaid is still married to his wife and I said Allah is making Mohamed commit sin by revealing that to him .Can you see the Big difference ?

        RESPONSE: LOL, you silly donkey, Allah (swt) only revealed that Zaynab would become his wife after Zayd divorces her. This is not a sin! There was no “coveting” here. “Coveting” your neighbor’s wife is forbidden because they are married AND there is no indication that this marriage will end. But in the case of Muhammad (pbuh), he was GIVEN supernatural knowledge of the future, so he KNEW that Zayd and Zaynab would get divorced and then Zaynab will marry the Prophet. Therefore, it is perfectly natural for the thought to arise that he will be able to marry her. BUT DESPITE THIS, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) STILL told Zayd to keep his wife. This shows his sincerity. Even though he knew what would happen, he still tried to keep it from happening. This is why was reprimanded in the verse.

        Think about it this way. If you knew for a FACT that a man and his wife were having marital problems and you had information that the man was DEFINITELY to divorce his wife, if you entertain the idea that AFTER they are divorced, you will propose marriage to the woman, then HOW are you guilty of “coveting”? You didn’t cause the divorce, nor did you encourage it. It happened because the man and his wife were not happy with each other. You were not “coveting” your neighbor’s wife because the marriage was going to end anyway.

        DONKEY: but in all the instances you gave there is no where God told anyone to do any of the crime you levelled against them in the bible, you are just trying to say God did this and he did that. This is again why I like what @Rehman is doing, He make sure he focus more on defending Mohamed and Allah didn’t do anything wrong. With what you do, You already admitted Mohamed committed the sin I levelled against him and Allah and you are trying to Justify them by using those instances in the bible that if God can do this with these people why cant Allah do the same with Mohamed. You are too focused in the story that you don’t know and now you still cant prove God has anything to do with it.

        RESPONSE: LOL, you’re such a donkey! You haven’t proven anything except that you’re a liar! 😂

        Moreover, you have been shown MULTIPLE examples of Biblical prophets committing sins and your god saying nothing and even showing his APPROVAL. When your god told Abimilech to GIVE Sarah BACK to Abraham, despite the fact that she was his HALF-SISTER, your god was APPROVING of that SINFUL marriage! And don’t tell me that it was not “sinful”, because we all know that it was.

        There is also the example of Isaiah being told to become a nudist. This is a sin, even though the Bible doesn’t explicitly say “taking your clothes off in public is a sin”. But think back to Genesis 3:21. When your god banished Adam and Eve from Eden, he made CLOTHES for them. So, it was the natural order to always wear clothes, but now, your god tells Isaiah to TAKE OFF the clothes!

        Here is another example of your god commanding people to commit sinful deeds. One of the 10 commandments is “thou shalt not kill”. And Exodus 23:7 says do not kill the “innocent and righteous”. But then, your god also said to the Israelites “Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction[a] all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, CHILD AND INFANT, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
        Who is more INNOCENT than an infant or child??? Your god even killed David’s infant son as punishment for David’s sin! What’s with that? Even worse, your god exposes himself as a hypocrite again. In Proverbs 6:17, he says that he HATES the hands that shed INNOCENT blood! So how can he then command people to DO WHAT HE HATES???

        DONKEY: Lol funny guy Lot was Old so you are comparing men of those days with men of these days? You are too funny QB what will 200yrs Man look like today? Remember people live up to over 200yrs in the old day and they still function well….

        RESPONSE: LOL, look at this moron! You donkey, do you really think an old man 4000 years ago was more healthy than an old man in modern times? Are you that stupid? Can you show me medical evidence that people from 4000 years ago were healthier and stronger than people in modern times? There’s some homework for you. 🤣🤣

        And let me clue you in on something, you ignorant donkey. Muslims don’t believe that every person lived a long time in those days. There is nothing in the Quran or Sunnah about that. It’s your only silly Bibull that says that. The reality is that lifespans were much SHORTER in those times. The longevity ascribed to the Biblical figures is a myth. Even if a few people lived a long time, it does not mean everyone did.

        DONKEY: I have always say this and I have seen a lot of Christians say the same.. If Muslims can be honest and do exactly the same thing they do to bible to Quran they will see how Mohamed can never be a true prophet but because of your dishonesty that’s why its difficult for you to see the truth.. You sent me a website that supports Lot 98% and maybe 2% of what you said, clearly you have read everything the website says regarding Alcohol and Sex but yet you choose the 2% and disregarded the 98% that says you are wrong. I will now copy and paste what the website says to see if you are an honest person.

        RESPONSE: 😂😂 Oh this too funny! So donkey wants to ignore the scientific evidence that it is very difficult for a drunk man to get aroused AND ejaculate if he is not aware of what’s going on, and simply assumes that since it is not 100% likely, then there is still a chance. But that’s the point! IT WOULD BE UNLIKELY FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY IF LOT WAS “UNAWARE”. That last part is important: UNWARE. It’s not ONLY that Lot was “drunk”. It’s also that he was UNAWARE. So, being “drunk”, there is already the likelihood that Lot would not be able to get aroused and ejaculate, but being UNAWARE would make it all but IMPOSSIBLE…unless of course, he WASN’T “unaware”. Get it, you stupid donkey? 🤣

        DONKEY: Alcohol can definitely MUDDY things up when it comes to engaging in sexual acts with someone else, but there are some things you can do

        RESPONSE: Exactly, donkey! And these “things” REQUIRE the man’s AWARENESS. A man cannot get aroused if he’s unaware and he certainly CANNOT reach orgasm if he’s unaware. What does this mean for Lot? Well, in order for the story to make sense…HE MUST HAVE BEEN AWARE, which means he was just as guilty as his daughters. DING! DING! DING!

        DONKEY: Lol funny guy so what God has not consider a sin QB say it is… its funny that the Quran verse that we are talking about says the reason it was revealed is because some people think marrying your adopted son’s ex wife is a sin but Allah said not to him because he has not commanded it. Now you think I am wrong not to think Abraham commit any sin by marrying Sarah. Funny guy show me where bible says it is a sin when Abraham marry Sarah.

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Here we see the donkey’s double standards! Use your brain, donkey, or what’s left of it. If you think that God does not consider something a sin, even though it appears to be a sin, then why do you think Muhammad (pbuh) was sinning…WHEN GOD IS THE ONE WHO LET IT HAPPEN? Using your own logic, since God didn’t consider anything regarding Zaynab a sin, including the alleged “coveting”, then what Muhammad (pbuh) did was NOT a sin! Good job, donkey. You refuted yourself! 😂

        Do you know why we know it was a sin for Abraham to marry Sarah, you donkey? BECAUSE ABRAHAM TOLD PEOPLE THAT SHE WAS HIS SISTER, so that they would not think that she was his wife and kill him to take her! This shows that it was considered taboo to marry your sister! 🤣 Ironically, Isaac did the same thing with Rebekah (Genesis 26:6-7), though she was not his sister but his cousin. This shows that marrying your sister was considered TABOO. It’s amazing that a donkey like you needs his Bibull to say that it is a sin for you to actually consider it a sin. 🤦‍♂️

        DONKEY: Funny guy I am not defending God or Lot.. You compared the situation with what Allah and Mohamed did which is 2 different things totally . I am only trying to explain to you why you should or cannot compare the 2. Allah to Mohamed and God didn’t tell Lot.

        RESPONSE: My goodness! Donkey claims he’s not “defending God or Lot”, and yet he just finished a long rant where he was doing just that!

        DONKEY: In conclusion .. I am not defending Lot I am only telling you what bible say, no where it says He did it intentionally for the first and second night.

        RESPONSE: Lying donkey! The Bible says that he KNEW! Just because you keep ignoring what Rashi said, does not make the problem go away. Here is it AGAIN:

        ““Heb. וּבְקוּמָהּ, mentioned in conjunction with the elder, is dotted (i.e., there is a dot over the second “vav”), to denote that when she arose, he did know, but nevertheless he was not careful not to drink on the second night (Nazir 23a). (Said Rabbi Levi: Whoever is inflamed by the lust for illicit relations, will ultimately be made to eat his own flesh (i.e., to commit incest). – [from Gen. Rabbah 51:9] [This does not appear in all editions of Rashi.]

        Get this through your head: the voweling in the Hebrew text of Genesis 19 indicates that Lot KNEW what was happening after the first daughter had slept with him! Therefore, Lot was responsible for getting drunk again and allowing his younger daughter to have sex with him. He should have stopped it from happening.

        So, after all this, you have FAILED to deal with my main points. What else can we expect from an idiot like you?

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Larry

        I dont know how to respond to you regarding this anymore … you kept bringing different stories thinking it will make what you are saying true…. You are just wasting time for no reason…..I tried to meet you half way but still you are not getting the point… you are talking abour Ravi this Ravi that…. I tried not to go into Ravi’s situation with you I said let us go with your story,,,, SHOW ME WHERE GOD TOLD LOT TO DO ANYTHING THAT HE DID… you kept on saying Lot knew what he was doing and God didn’t say anything… so what if God know, is there anything God doesn’t know? even before it happens God knows … I have told you several times is it only Lot that or his daughters that did something wrong and God didn’t punish them instantly ? I even use you QB as an example that is it every time you sin God punish you instantly… so if God doesn’t punish some one instantly does it mean God approves what they are doing ? If you cant show me where it says God told Lot or his daughters what to do pls stop talking about them … I can show you where Allah told Mohamed to do something not guessing or assuming its written Allah told him what to do…

        Abraham and Sarah you still didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time… Abraham is before Moses , I have said this before ,,, Moses was giving all the law you and talking about you don’t know what you are talking about and you are just trying to waste time to deflect from main issue of Mohamed…

        Regarding Amalek if you don’t have knowledge of what was going on but you only google Amalek you will get this Amalek is a nation described in the Hebrew Bible as an enemy of the Israelites…that alone answers your question but because you like to waste time and don’t know what you are saying and not ready to learn you will say God kill innocent people… clearly you read the bible chapter 1 Samuel 15 I don’t know why you saw Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. and you still say they are innocent … when Mohamed go to war and kill people that is not killing innocent people because you believe when Mohamed fight war there is no 1 single innocent child that died Mohamed and his people are so careful … anyway I have seen you don’t know what you talk about and also manipulate things you read 1 Samuel 15:2 you saw why God want to punish them and you still said they are innocent ,,, you did the same with Hosea and Gomer saying God told him to marry a married woman… anyway pls let us be honest in our conversation if you see something don’t ignore it thinking I will not know or maybe you can manipulate it to favour you…. So if you cant show me where GOD says to anyone to commit sin just leave it and remember to do your research before sending it to me… I didn’t say what Mohamed did by marrying Zainab is a sin even though it was frown upon at the time but there is no where it says that a sin all I said is he covet his neighbour’s wife which is part if 10 commandment

        Please moving forward like I said let us be honest in our conversation no need for trying to win by any means necessary and focus on the main issue not bringing issue that don’t relate

        Like

      5. Donkey Larry is a pathetic low-life who is too proud to admit when he is wrong, not to mention a complete ignoramus. Case in point…

        DONKEY: I dont know how to respond to you regarding this anymore … you kept bringing different stories thinking it will make what you are saying true…. You are just wasting time for no reason…..I tried to meet you half way but still you are not getting the point… you are talking abour Ravi this Ravi that…. I tried not to go into Ravi’s situation with you I said let us go with your story

        RESPONSE: What an absolute moron! We are not talking Ravi Zacharias, the late Christian pervert, here. We are talking about a Jewish scholar, RASHI. This scholar explained that the voweling of the Hebrew text indicates that Lot KNEW what was going on after the first daughter had slept with him. Despite this, he STILL got drunk the next night. Ergo, he was GUILTY of committing incest because he didn’t try to stop the second daughter from doing the same thing. It appears that donkey Larry has no response to this, so he now moves the goalpost and asks where it says that God told Lot to do this.

        DONKEY: SHOW ME WHERE GOD TOLD LOT TO DO ANYTHING THAT HE DID… you kept on saying Lot knew what he was doing and God didn’t say anything… so what if God know, is there anything God doesn’t know? even before it happens God knows … I have told you several times is it only Lot that or his daughters that did something wrong and God didn’t punish them instantly ?

        RESPONSE: Donkey Larry, you pathetic idiot, I already explained this. You god deliberately left Lot and his daughters confused and fearful. This is why Irenaeus concluded that the whole incest episode was DIVINELY ARRANGED. In other words, your god set it up.
        Regarding punishment, not only is there no mention of any punishment but not even CONDEMNATION. Why does the story end with the daughters giving birth to their inbred children? Was your god too busy to let Lot know that what he had done was disgusting and shameful? Lot completely disappears from the Bible from that onwards. Why?

        DONKEY: I even use you QB as an example that is it every time you sin God punish you instantly… so if God doesn’t punish some one instantly does it mean God approves what they are doing ? If you cant show me where it says God told Lot or his daughters what to do pls stop talking about them … I can show you where Allah told Mohamed to do something not guessing or assuming its written Allah told him what to do…

        RESPONSE: Donkey Larry has a bad memory. I showed why the donkey’s analogy was idiotic. And no, I’m not going to stop talking about Lot and his daughters because it exposes your disgusting religion and its deranged god. This is not the God of Abraham. It is a satanic counterfeit.

        Speaking of your god telling people to do bad things, we already saw the example of Hosea being told to commit adultery. Funny how the donkey stopped talking about that. 🤔

        DONKEY: Abraham and Sarah you still didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time… Abraham is before Moses , I have said this before ,,, Moses was giving all the law you and talking about you don’t know what you are talking about and you are just trying to waste time to deflect from main issue of Mohamed…

        RESPONSE: LOL! Can anyone see the irony here? Donkey Larry admits that Lot and his daughters did something wrong when they committed INCEST (DUH!) but now, with Abraham and Sarah, he wonders if what they did (INCEST) was a sin! 😂 So wait a minute, donkey. Are you saying that sleeping with your daughters was a sin but sleeping with your half-sister wasn’t??? Of course, we can see why the donkey is doing this. It’s because he knows his god was fine with incest between half-siblings, so the donkey has to ty to show that Abraham and Sarah were not being sinful, but Lot and his daughters were.

        You are a disgusting donkey! This is what Christianity does to the brain. It causes it to rot and the person affected is incapable of using logic and reason.

        DONKEY: Regarding Amalek if you don’t have knowledge of what was going on but you only google Amalek you will get this Amalek is a nation described in the Hebrew Bible as an enemy of the Israelites…that alone answers your question but because you like to waste time and don’t know what you are saying and not ready to learn you will say God kill innocent people…

        RESPONSE: LOL!! Donkey Larry really thinks that all of us are new to this! WRONG! You see, donkey, unlike you, we have been researching your Bibull for a long time, and we have heard all the stupid excuses donkey Christians use to explain their evil Bible stories.

        It’s a common excuse for Crosstians to justify the killing of Amalekite babies by appealing to the historic rivalry between the Amalekites and the Israelites. But what the donkey is too STUPID and BRAINWASHED to realize (something Google searches won’t tell you) is that even if Amalek was an enemy of Israel, that DOES NOT justify killing INNOCENT BABIES! A normal person would know this, but because of the evil influence of Christianity and the Bible, donkey Larry and other Crosstians think that just because one group is an enemy of another group, it is somehow permissible for the latter to wipe out the former, even to the point of committing genocide and killing innocent children. What did the children have to do with the rivalry between Amalek and Israel? NOTHING!

        DONKEY: clearly you read the bible chapter 1 Samuel 15 I don’t know why you saw Thus says the Lord of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. and you still say they are innocent … when Mohamed go to war and kill people that is not killing innocent people because you believe when Mohamed fight war there is no 1 single innocent child that died Mohamed and his people are so careful

        RESPONSE: What a sick and deranged donkey! This moron thinks the children and babies were not innocent! Once again, what did the children have to do with the sins of their ancestors? NOTHING! If Israel needed to go to war to protect itself, that is all well and good. This is also what the Muslims did. BUT, the war of self-defense does NOT justify killing the innocent. Children and babies are INNOCENT. Period. There is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for the Bibull’s brutality. It is EVIL.

        DONKEY: anyway I have seen you don’t know what you talk about and also manipulate things you read 1 Samuel 15:2 you saw why God want to punish them and you still said they are innocent

        RESPONSE: Look at this moron! Are children and infants not innocent? Is the donkey so retarded that he doesn’t see the difference between killing armed combatants and innocent children?

        DONKEY: you did the same with Hosea and Gomer saying God told him to marry a married woman…

        RESPONSE: LOL, yes, and the donkey ran away from that too. The god of the Bible ordered Hosea to commit ADULTERY. Period.

        DONKEY: So if you cant show me where GOD says to anyone to commit sin just leave it and remember to do your research before sending it to me…

        RESPONSE: LOL, we have numerous examples. But what the donkey does to redefine an act as not being sinful when his god is shown to order something that appears to be immoral and sinful, i.e., the marriage of half-siblings. In short, the donkey simply moves the goalpost. So, whenever we show an example of donkey’s god ordering bad things, donkey can simply say “well, it’s not a sin when God says to do it”.

        DONKEY: I didn’t say what Mohamed did by marrying Zainab is a sin even though it was frown upon at the time but there is no where it says that a sin all I said is he covet his neighbour’s wife which is part if 10 commandment

        RESPONSE: And I refuted you donkey. To “covet” is to desire a woman. Muhammad (pbuh) simply thought that once Zayd divorced Zaynab, he could marry her. That’s it! That’s all he thought! How is that a sin? The answer is that it is NOT. As I explained, Muhammad (pbuh) knew this would happen. If he had NOT known this, and he thought that he could marry Zaynab if only Zayd would divorce her, then you could make the argument that Muhammad (pbuh) was “coveting” her. But that’s not what happened. The Prophet was told by divine revelation that the marriage was going to end. If anything, it actually further proves that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a true prophet. The revelation he had received did come true.

        DONKEY: Please moving forward like I said let us be honest in our conversation no need for trying to win by any means necessary and focus on the main issue not bringing issue that don’t relate

        RESPONSE: LOL, I absolutely DESPISE donkeys who talk about being “honest” but who are dishonest to the core. Keep your pathetic and hypocritical advice to yourself donkey. It doesn’t impress me. You need to concern yourself with explaining why your religion is so disgusting and deranged.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. mr.heathcliff

        “Show me where God says to Lot I want you to sleep with your daughter or daughters, Where God says to the daughter or daughters I want you to sleep with your father Or where it says God said I will not count it as a sin for you Lot and your daughters. Remember Allah promise Zaid’s wife to Mohammed”

        you are an idiot.
        lets give a prick like you an analogy
        say you are stuck on an ISLAND with your dad.
        you have COMPLETELY run out of food
        you say to your dad ” i must kill you to survive otherwise i will go hungry until the rescue people will come to save us and thats going to be a month”

        i have a mobile phone and i know WHERE your location is and where you can quickly get some food without killing your dad, in this situation WHO is guilty for not telling you the location ?

        Liked by 1 person

      7. mr.heathcliff

        ” Going back to Mohamed Quran says Allah revealed to him that He will marry Zaid’s wife while Zaid is still married to his wife ”

        10 When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God hands them over to you and you take them captive, 11 suppose you see among the captives a beautiful woman whom you desire and want to marry, 12 and so you bring her home to your house: she shall shave her head, pare her nails, 13 discard her captive’s garb, and shall remain in your house a full month, mourning for her father and mother; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you are not satisfied with her, you shall let her go free and not sell her for money. You must not treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

        so yhwh knows that a hebrew rapist WILL marry for the purpose of BEAUTIFY and if he is dissatisfied with his raped victim, he CAN let her go.

        when DISSATISFACTION enters into the THOUGHTS of the hebrew rapist, he drops her….this means yhwh KNEW this and gave a LAW which says that when DISATISFACTION enters your BRAIN about your RAPED victim you can “let her go free….”

        SO dissatisfaction enters BRAIN while YOU are married lol….you see your victim naked and she dont look horny enough as she was prior to her capture….yhwh allows you to LET her go….

        this means yhwh is ALLOWING u to let your wife be ANOTHER mans wife WHEN dissatisfaction enters your brain AND THAT obviously would be when you are MARRIED LOL

        “and I said Allah is making Mohamed commit sin by revealing that to him .”

        this verse is dealing with situation where people are not in a happy marriage and marital bed has been forsaken, this is not marriage but “marriage” in quoatation marks

        humanity sufffers from this problem and quran offered solution. there are marriages which are UNREPAIRABLE.

        in uk 3 women die in one week because of domestic violence.

        “Can you see the Big difference ? ”

        yes, yhwh is a scum bag who ALLOWS divorce to ENTER THE EQUATION WHEN DISSATISFACTION ENTERS the hebrew rapists MIND!

        PIG!

        Like

      8. stewjo004

        @ Looney Larry

        I could care less about you stalling with QB and am waiting for the response to my questions but just clarifying some points on his part:

        1. “…you are talking abour Ravi…”

        It’s RaSHi, a famous Jewish commentator

        2. “…is there anything God doesn’t know?”

        According to your beliefs when the Day of Judgement is…

        3. “…even before it happens God knows … ”

        You argued against this point with me.

        4. “… every time you sin God punish you instantly…”

        He punished Lot’s(as) wife though instantly. It’s a weird break in the flow of the narrative. It’s almost like the Jews added the story to insult their enemies or something…

        5. “…didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time”

        Do you need God to tell you to not have sex with your sister?

        6. “…is a nation described in the Hebrew Bible as an enemy of the Israelites…that alone answers your question…”

        Do you believe it’s okay to kill surrendering men, women and children? Yes or no?

        “…Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants…” (1 Samuel 15:3)

        7. “…you did the same with Hosea and Gomer saying God told him to marry a married woman…

        . All that was done was the same thing that you did. You come in trying to argue any and everything but can’t explain why one can use the same argument you did to “prove” Hosea faked revelation to marry a hooker that he secretly lusted after.

        8. “… GOD says to anyone to commit sin…”

        Please see point 6 above to see your depiction of God ordering genocide

        9. “…all I said is he covet his neighbour’s wife…”

        And all QB and Vaqas have said is what is your proof for this statement?

        10. “…no need for trying to win by any means necessary …”

        Interesting coming from you who is notorious for inconsistency.

        11. “…focus on the main issue not bringing issue that don’t relate”

        Oh good, you can then focus on your idol not having God’s attributes instead of talking about him powering down, physical/spirtual blah, blah, blah.

        Liked by 1 person

      9. mr.heathcliff

        “didn’t show me where it says in the bible its a sin for them to do what they did at the time”

        So why did the author go to the trouble of telling his readers that they drugged lot? If it was not a sin at that time, then the father would have humped his children and children humping their children.

        there are no males left for the women according to the women

        They tell there father….

        And the humping begining, why the need to tell they drugged lot and why the need to tell readers that lot allowed his daughter to drug him second time?

        Like

      10. mr.heathcliff

        Faiz, is the bible hiding king davids adulterous relationships even in old age?

        Quote:
        I’ve done plenty of digging, and no other historical error in the bible is clearer than the biblical author’s lying to the reader in denying David’s sexual infidelity in 1st Kings 1:1-4. The very notion that several adults disregarded sleeping close to the fireplace, or having David sleep with one of his polygamous wives, and thus thought the only way David could cure his night chills was for him to sleep next to a pretty young virgin girl picked at random from the city, is ….. preposterous, and no Christian woman of today would even start to believe a similar excuse if she came home, found her husband in bed with a pretty young virgin girl picked by his friends from another part of town, and listened to him say “I was only trying to get warm, I did not have sex with that woman”

        Liked by 1 person

    7. mr.heathcliff

      “Zaid divorce Zaynab did Mohamed know in his heart He will marry her or he thinks he will disobey Allah? Also is Quran 33:37-40 reveal before or after Mohamed marry Zaynab?”

      Bro faiz, would this be an example of slippery slope ?

      Like

    8. mr.heathcliff

      “Is your soul/Spirt and body different entity ?”

      Lol, they are parts which make up a whole, WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH A BEGININGLESS BEING EXISTING AS A CREATED HUMAN?

      answer u silly pig.

      “Does your Soul/Spirit and Body posses the same attributes ?”

      LOL,WHAT ARE U TAKKING ABOUT WITH YOUR BS? how does ONE THING FULLY EXIST AS CREATED AND UNCREATED?

      thats a contradiction since UNCREATED TRUMPS CREATED

      “If your body sin does your Soul/Spirit get punished or just your body get punished”

      What an idiotic and moronic question. god punish parts of human and not other parts? god is a partialist in his punishments?

      “Do you have Spirit, Soul and Body or Just Soul and Body
      and the most important one Are you Body ? or are you Soul ?or Are you both together ?

      what has ANY OF THIS GOT TO DO WITH BEGININGLESS BEING EXISTING AS FINITE CREATURE?

      your questions are pathetic and stupid.

      u are imagining the INFINITE existing as FINITE creature and EMPLOYING THE ACCIDENTS IN creation( u could exist as x but fail to exist as x and instead exist as y) TO support infinite existing aS FINITE?

      Like

  19. mr.heathcliff

    “Clearly Allah see they are going trough rough time if we should go with your theory but According to Quran Allah has power to do anything but he decided to use the Power to give Zaynab to Mohamed instead of Making things good between between 2 lovers.”

    the bible says “do not break what god has tied together in heaven”
    then jebus contradicts himself and says “divorce breaks what yhwh tied in heaven”
    so tell me, dog of filth, if yhwh keep “2 lovers” loving, why need to mention an exception clause ? is it because yhwh does not “force” people to be “2 lovers for ever” but give them freedom to obey him ? and maybe in their freedom they end up fornicating ?

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Larry

    @ stewjo004

    LARRY I cant and will not waste my time on this kind of stuff anymore before I became Christian…”
    STEW Sounds like somebody’s faith is getting rocked in here.

    Nothing is shaking my faith … I just don’t want to waste time talking about something that is not as important as which way to heaven..

    LARRY said According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God …”
    STEW Not they didn’t dumb@$$ I just quoted TWO early sects based on the Jerusalem Church that DID NOT believe he was your idol. Ebionites, Nazarenes and Jewish Christianity in general.
    LARRY. “1. According to what you wrote you confirmed that Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God eg Jesus

    LARRY . Matthew 27:41-43 Non believers said He called himself Son of God if they can say that how can you say according to bible believers didn’t know this too?”
    STEW Again the “Son of God” basically means “claimant to the Davidic throne” that’s it. Here is again another Christian scholar to explain it to you man worshipper:
    https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-son-of-god-is-the-son-of-david/
    Nobody cares what Matt says. Simple question how do they know? I ask this over and over why you consider these texts reliable and you always ignore it.

    Now please read Above again I know you are clever what I said is According to Bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God .. So I use the verses in the bible to prove to you that they did…Even I use what some of the people that quote to buttress my point … I said what you wrote you confirmed that Son of God’ was the title of anyone believed in some way to be linked to God eg Jesus , what I mean by eg Jesus …Disciples believed in some way Jesus is linked to God which makes him qualify to be called Son of God according to who ever that you quote

    I would like to ask you again According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God. Yes or No?

    LARRY. “…With your Series you said some of the guys that you quote said there is no way Jesus would have been crucify for just calling himself Son of God and Also you said Pilate could not have listen to the Jews when they asked him to crucify Jesus because he was no push over and he didn’t find Jesus guilty and Also Jew don’t crucify people…. What is the point of all this? ”
    STEW To show that the Bible is a fanfiction making up stories as it goes along. Again Jews do not consider calling one self the “Son of God” blasphemy (it’s a Davidic title) and the Romans wouldn’t care as according to the “gospels of” Jesus wanted everyone to be a loyal Roman subject.

    LARRY. “…The only thing I can think of is you are trying to say that event recorded in bible didn’t Happen and that will make your Quran a Liar…”
    STEW Lol what? How did you come to that conclusion. The Quran never claims the cruci-fixion event happened.

    Again read above I really don’t expect this from you lol I thought by now you would have got it or maybe you are acting as if you didn’t get it in other for you not to agree you are wrong lol… You said Bible is a fanfiction making up stories as it goes along which means what was written in the bible never happened the event of Crucifixion since according to your source Jews do not consider calling one self the “Son of God” blasphemy (it’s a Davidic title) and the Romans wouldn’t care as according to the “gospels of” Jesus wanted every-one to be a loyal Roman subject.. There is no way Pilate could have giving the order..

    Now explain this pls Bible was written over 400yrs before Quran and according to you Bible is a fanfiction making up stories But Quran is from God how come in 400yrs after Quran is telling us About the same story if it’s a fiction … lets read together lol
    Quran 4:157-158
    And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have KILLED the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not KILL him, nor did they CRUCIFY him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise

    Tafsir Al-Jalalayn I know you said you don’t care about Tafsir just in case you wondering where I get what I am saying from

    who was an associate of theirs [the Jews], was given the resemblance, of Jesus. In other words, God cast his [Jesus’s] likeness to him and so they thought it was him [Jesus]. And those who disagree concerning him

    Non believers said Indeed, we have KILLED the Messiah meaning to them Messiah is Dead
    Allah said And they did not KILL him meaning He didn’t die
    Allah said nor did they CRUCIFY him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them Meaning they didn’t nail him Jesus to cross but another person was made to resemble him
    So Quran didn’t say Crucifixion didn’t happened , It was just saying it didn’t happen to Jesus but it did happen to another that was made to resemble Jesus.
    As you can see again you don’t know your Quran very well… Bible claims Jesus was killed by crucifixion Quran said no it wasn’t Jesus they Killed by Crucifixion it was another per-son Allah made to appear to them as Jesus they killed.. I don’t see where Quran denied Crucifixion Event I only saw Quran denying it happening to Jesus. Hope You get it

    LARRY Is Allah talking about Muslim or Christians in Quran 3.55?”
    STEW Muslims as we actually believe in him while you engage in pagan worship.
    LARRY “..So how can you think Allah is talking to Muslim in Quran 3.55?”
    STEW Not talking TO Muslims but ABOUT Muslims, genius.
    LARRY Again you are proving me right more and more that you don’t know what you are saying this is what you said earlier before
    STEW So the “them” is the disbelieving Jews as the Disciples(ra) did not kill prophets, slander Mary etc. So as usual poor reading comprehension on your part. But you have already admitted you don’t read religious texts so nothing surprising here.

    LARRY As you can see you agreed that the disciples are believers you even put Radhi Allahu, you claimed Allah only confused non-believers So how can you think Allah is talking to Muslim in Quran 3.55? when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me that’s what Quran 3.55 says did Allah caused Jesus to ascend twice? I thought it happened only once during Crucifixion so if Allah said what he said to Jesus at that time I am sure Allah was saying setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection meaning Setting Disciples above disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection.

    Now again this goes to show you don’t understand what you preach If you read above I explained how Quran confirms the Event of Crucifixion did happened but not to Jesus and it was when that Event happened Allah said in Quran 3.55 Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ….
    As you can see in that verse Allah was saying to Jesus that he will cause Jesus to ascend to him and with what we read in Quran 4:158 But Allah took him up unto Himself. This goes to show that Jesus ascend after the event of Crucifixion Happened and Allah spoke to Jesus what He will do setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection meaning Setting Disciples above disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection. Because Disciples and Christians are the one that follows Jesus and disbelieving Jews are they one that disbelieve.
    So Again I ask you is Allah Talking to Jesus About DICIPLES/Christians or Muslim here in Quran 3.55 ..

    LARRY Like I said before if Aisha is alive today and have all this knowledge about one true God ,she would have called him a fake prophet…”
    STEW One you ignored my point, two she interacted with Christians before dumb@$$, three she was a major scholar for Islam so…pretty unlikely.

    I didn’t ignore your point I said if she was alive today and have knowledge about one true God… our knowledge now you cant compare it to then .. no way jose lol.. so whatever she knew then cant be enough for her to understand Mohamed is fake.

    LARRY also I hope you know the culture in western countries now regarding ho-mosexual does that mean everyone that lives in western world likes it? ”
    STEW Homosexuality is not really acceptable in mainstream society. It’s only got as far as it did because LGBTQ worked active propaganda it’s just not considered acceptable to criticize. But this doesn’t work for polygyny because MOST human societies on this planet (84.57% according to the Human Atlas) engaged in it

    I don’t know what part of the world you live but like I said in western countries. The government approves it and its illegal for anyone to discriminate , if that’s not acceptance I don’t know what that is…

    LARRY that’s why what Jesus said make sense…”
    STEW Actually no it’s retarded. There is more utility in polygyny than monogamy (especially for agricultural societies) and again that’s why the MAJORITY of hu-mans engaged in it showing that your religion is not even natural.

    Lol that’s up to you as you said before you have 2 wives didn’t expect you to say otherwise. Can I ask you is it possible to love 2 people equally?

    LARRY If you want to claim that he didn’t confuse believers ,,, can you show me 1 place in Quran that says during or after crucifixion Allah told the believers Jesus didn’t die?”
    STEW One I clearly demonstrated that the disbelievers were being spoken to in the passage and two the onus is on you to prove your claim.

    Very funny onus is on me to prove lol because you don’t know the answer lol ok my prove for the 2nd time is there is no where in Quran that says Allah did .. Will you now be so kind and show us your prove that Allah didn’t confuse Jesus disciples

    LARRY We Christians use Bible and there is nothing like that in it…”
    STEW And the 1,000,000$ question for the 100th time what is your basis to show this text is reliable when even its resurrection accounts the cornerstone of your religion are known as the most contradictory parts of the “gospels of”?

    Holy Spirit encounter and the words in it works for me… Can I ask you the same what makes you belief Mohamed actually see an angel that reveal Quran to him since there is no one else that can confirm they saw him talking to an angel.

    LARRY We Christians use Bible and there is nothing like that in it…”
    STEW And the 1,000,000$ question for the 100th time what is your basis to show this text is reliably able when even its resurrection accounts the cornerstone of your religion are known as the most contradictory parts of the “gospels of”?

    You will need to give an example .. I don’t know what you are talking about

    LARRY “…You said the point is the society of Nigeria no matter what your religion is engages in the practice of multiple wives… if everyone is doing something and it goes against God’s wish does it make it right because a lot of people do it… ”
    STEW Agreed but your text neither bans the practice and clearly encouraged it (David(as), Abraham(as)) calling it a blessing, and then all of the sudden when it mixes with Romans who have this ideology of “monogamy” (while still screwing slaves on the side) all of the sudden your text “magically” promotes it (through your interpretations)….hmmm

    That is not true my bible didn’t encourage it , this what Jesus said in Matthew 19:3-9

    3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
    4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who [a]made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
    7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
    8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for [b]sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery

    As you can see Jesus want us to have 1 wife that’s why He said whoever divorces his wife, except for [sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.. if we are allow to marry 4 wives or more how can divorcing one and marry another a sin ? if I have just 2 and I divorce one and marry 2 more that shouldn’t count as adultery so far I am allowed to marry more than 1, but because we are not allowed it will be count as a sin if we sleep with someone else other than the only 1 wife .. it doesn’t matter if you marry the 2n and 3rd it will still be count as Adultery

    LARRY. “…instead of him to ask me how did Mohamed covet…”
    STEW Easy because he(saw) didn’t. So how did Mohamed covet?

    Please see my response to QB I have explained it.

    LARRY if a white man use bible to coming crime does that mean that’s what Christianity stands for?”
    STEW Lol yes, they literally justified colonialization through the Bible due to the “Curse of Ham” in your text that claims we are to be theirs and the Jews’ slaves. This is the problem with the Bible it is morally horrible and promotes this kind of stuff.

    Very funny you people really don’t want to change lol… You like to generalise … ok If A man use Quran to commit terrorism that means Islam stands for Terrorism … since that is what Terrorist have been using to Justify what they are doing… Am I right ? seriously I still cant believe you said that this is the kind of thing I expect some else to say not you,,,, anyway what do I know

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…Disciples believed in some way Jesus is linked to God which makes him qualify to be called Son of God according to who ever that you quote…’

      I…don’t even hav the slightest idea what the heck you’re saying

      2. “…I would like to ask you again According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God. Yes or No?”

      Yes, but that means nothing as it was written AFTER the vents by 50 years.

      3. “…Now explain this pls Bible was written over 400yrs before Quran and according to you Bible is a fanfiction making up stories But Quran is from God how come in 400yrs after Quran is telling us About the same story if it’s a fiction…

      Easy it’s correcting the book God never wrote lol. As for what you quoted all the verse says is he (as) was not killed or crucified, where does it say the event of crucifixion happened?

      4. “…So Quran didn’t say Crucifixion didn’t happened , It was just saying it didn’t happen to Jesus but it did happen to another that was made to resemble Jesus.”

      In the two Jalal’s interpretation. I don’t take their opinion on this verse I favor Zamakshari’s as stronger.

      5. “…As you can see again you don’t know your Quran very well…”

      And you don’t know any religion well. Your entire argument is based on ONE interpretation of reading the verse and not being aware there are like 3 or 4 different ways to read it other than an “illusion” that happened to another person. This is why I call you a dumb@$$ as you act like you know everything when you don’t even know kindergartener level, Islam.

      6. “…f you read above I explained how Quran confirms the Event of Crucifixion did happened”

      You didn’t

      7. “…This goes to show that Jesus ascend after the event of Crucifixion Happened…”

      No it says an asssaination was attempted, nothing about a crucifixtion.

      8. “…So Again I ask you is Allah Talking to Jesus About DICIPLES/Christians or Muslim here in Quran 3.55 ..”

      Muslims. Onee Disciples were Muslims. Two from Ibn kathir;

      “When Allah sent Muhammad, those who believed in him also believed in Allah, His Angels, Books and Messengers in the correct manner. So they were the true followers of every Prophet who came to earth. They believed in the unlettered Prophet, the Final Messenger and the master of all mankind, who called them to believe in the truth in its entirety. This is why they had more right to every Prophet than his own nation, especially those who claim to follow their Prophet’s way and religion, yet change and alter his religion. Furthermore, Allah abrogated all the laws that were sent down to the Prophets with the Law He sent Muhammad with, which consists of the true religion that shall never change or be altered until the commencement of the Last Hour. Muhammad’s religion shall always be dominant and victorious over all other religions. This is why Allah allowed Muslims to conquer the eastern and western parts of the world and the kingdoms of the earth. Furthermore, all countries submitted to them; they demolished Kisra (king of Persia) and destroyed the Czar, ridding them of their treasures and spending these treasures for Allah’s sake. All this occurred just as their Prophet told them it would, when he conveyed Allah’s statement,”

      The verse is about Muslims as I said. Cut again.

      9. “…our knowledge now you cant compare it to then .. no way jose lol.. so whatever she knew then cant be enough for her to understand Mohamed is fake…”

      Lol what? How was that a counter to she interacted with Christians before?

      10. “…I don’t know what part of the world you live but like I said in western countries. The government approves it and its illegal for anyone to discriminate , if that’s not acceptance I don’t know what that is…”

      It’s “illegal” ut everyone still does as the average joe does not like it

      11. “…Can I ask you is it possible to love 2 people equally?”

      Yes. Do you love your kids equally?

      12. “…Will you now be so kind and show us your prove that Allah didn’t confuse Jesus disciples”

      Question did the Disciples break their Covenant, kill prophets and slander Mary?

      13 “…Holy Spirit encounter and the words in it works for me…”

      Soooo nothing, got it.

      14. “…Can I ask you the same what makes you belief Mohamed actually see an angel that reveal Quran to him since there is no one else that can confirm they saw him talking to an angel.”

      Actually, people did see him speaking to an angel for one, next his accurate prophecies, linguistic marvel of a Scripture, and overall life accomplishments

      15. “You will need to give an example .. I don’t know what you are talking about”

      The Mary Magdeline problem

      Why did she tell the Disciples Jesus’s(as) body was “stolen” if she already talked to him at the tomb?

      16. “That is not true my bible didn’t encourage it…”

      Other than basically all the majorr prophets engaging in it. Moses(as), Abraham(as), Jacob(as), David(as) but once mixing with the Romans, nope monogamy that we so happen to all do is the norm now.

      17. “..As you can see Jesus want us to have 1 wife that’s why He said whoever divorces his wife, except for [sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery…”

      Yes and that law is dumb. So if I don’t pay the bills or beat my wife she can’t divorce me. Ooops!!!

      18. “…A man use Quran to commit terrorism that means Islam stands for Terrorism … since that is what Terrorist have been using to Justify what they are doing… Am I right ?…”

      The difference is your text promotes ethnic superiority. So you believe Africans should be slaves to white people and Jews as per the alleged curse of Ham attributed to Noah(aS) correct?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. stewjo004

        20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.

        24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,

        “Cursed be Canaan!
        The LOWEST OF SLAVES
        WILL HE BE TO HIS BROTHERS.”

        26 He also said,

        “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem!
        May Canaan BE THE SLAVE of Shem.
        27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory;
        may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
        and may Canaan BE THE SLAVE of Japheth.”

        ^ Yeah, your fanfiction is SUPER racist.

        Liked by 2 people

    2. mr.heathcliff

      “So Quran didn’t say Crucifixion didn’t happened , It was just saying it didn’t happen to Jesus but it did happen to another that was made to resemble Jesus.
      As you can see again you don’t know your Quran very well…”

      Pig of piglit, this just show u are a shameless pig.

      Like

    3. mr.heathcliff

      “According to bible Disciples and other Christians believe Jesus is son of God. Yes or No?”

      No, peter never believed acc to mark

      1. jebus was messiah
      2. or that jebus was “son of yhwh”

      3. peter had no faith in the claims of jebus or pauline dying and rising jebus.

      Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        .”As you can see Jesus want us to have 1 wife that’s why sHe said whoever divorces his wife, except for [sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery…”

        What a horrible and disgusting law. Think about all those poor christian women in nigeria being abused in horrible marriage. They cant escape because they will feel guilty of doing a crime equivallent of performing a crime like adultery.

        1. They are being abused
        2. They are afraid of being called adulterers to ENDURE in suffering
        3. they fancy that someone come and rescue them , but jesus’ horrible claims identified them as adulterous whores…

        I feel sorry for christian women in nigeria.

        Like

      2. mr.heathcliff

        “whoever divorces his wife, except for [sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery…”

        No, mark does not say this bs.

        1. Mark already said yhwh made match in heaven

        Said to pharisees:
        2.But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,[b] 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

        LET NO ONE separate

        adulterty CANNOT separate what yhwh JOINED. adultery cannot BREAK a divine joining.

        disciples dont understand:

        “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

        “Then in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter.”

        To pharisees jesos said :
        Dont break what god joined

        To his followers he said:
        divorce = adultery and breaks what god joined.

        so how u can do adultery and then DO ADULTERY again by DIVORCING UR cheating spouse ? Lol

        ur BREAKING TWICE WHAT god bound together lol

        Lol lololokklololl

        Like

  21. Shrek🌚

    😂thank u stew n QB I was not confused btw nor do I go looking to be QB, I should have told my questions instead of linking I didn’t have a problem with how it was composed. I did find the answer to my question tho I think…anywayyyy I’ve found ur page like months ago read everything now I just come reading the new things that Larry comes up with😂tho plz seek help man🙏, but BUT this page has been helpful so jazakallah khair to all those who write on it, i think that’s all…LOVE YALL!😁

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Jazak Allah Khair. Just know bro that I wasn’t trying to criticize you for no reason. I did it because I care about your well-being and Iman. These lying Christians and atheists will do anything to try to stop Islam, and people with less knowledge can easily fall prey to them. May Allah protect us all and expose the lying unbelievers.

      Liked by 3 people

    2. stewjo004

      @ Shrek

      No problem, sometimes we have Muslims coming on going:

      “Help! Help! I was reading this thing online….”
      “Well, why were you reading it in the first place?”
      😐😐😐…

      But were you good on Hunain or did you have any more questions?

      Liked by 2 people

  22. mr.heathcliff

    “Again God JUST finished smiting Sodom and Gomorrah for their sins and turned Lot’s(a.s) wife into a pillar of salt”

    a pig like you could have responded to this by few sentences, look at what you wrote :

    piglit :
    I didn’t ignore this either I said lol that’s a bit funny because 7billion people on earth can say the same thing every time they made a mistake . eg why God didn’t speak to the Jews leaders that Jesus is the messiah … why God didn’t speak to Abraham when Sarah offer her slave …why God don’t speak to us every time we about to make mistake.

    question:
    these women had intercourse with their father , these women could easily have intercourse with their own children. your dumb god gaves laws on incest, remember?

    “I don’t think God speak every time something about to happen. And to add to it Angel spoke to Lot not his daughters In Genesis 19:15 When the morning dawned, the angels urged Lot to hurry, saying, “Arise, take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be consumed in the punishment of the city. Not that God cant send the Angel to speak to the girls I am just letting you know because of what you said the WERE just talking to Angels but its actually He not them… so lets flip it again to see if there is inconsistent about my God …”

    your inconsistent filthy god couldnt have said :
    “lot you are going to let your daughters get you drunk and have sex ”

    “. as you know David accept his fault and pray for forgiveness which God accepts.”

    your god didnt “accept”” you dumb pig, he PUNISHED his child
    how can i say “i forgive you” and then punch someone else in the face?

    “Lets try and go with your theory first then I will come back to adding more to my answer.. Moses Law is to put the Man to death—”

    Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel but also it requires certain criteria to carry it out
    Deuteronomy 17:6-7 Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. The hands of the witnesses shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So you shall put away the evil from among you.
    2 Samuel 11:4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her
    2 Samuel 12:12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.

    ////

    Now with all this verses above we can see That for one to be put to death 1st they will need to be caught having sex with a married woman there is no indication David was caught and also they will need 2 to 3 witnesses before they can kill the person..

    you dumb bimbo, your god INFORMED david of his sin, why the need of “witnesses” lol
    why you need “2 or 3 witnesses” ? god is the one informing here.
    god is COMMUNICATING with king dave. lol

    ” David was the king I am not sure anyone came out to testify they found them committing adultery so as you can see in other for the Law to be fulfilled certain things need to happen first..”

    not when god is a witness over it . lol

    ” and when God see that David was about to get away with it then My Just God send Nathan to him that you might got away with human beings but You cant get away with me…”

    so you dont need every condition of mosaic law to be applied, yet your god DID NOT apply PUNISSHMENT on dave. pig

    “So if we should go with your story we will need Human beings to carry this out not God so we cant blame God for that… ”

    no, your god needs to carry out on david what he carried out on davids child, idiot.

    “as know what they Law say IF A MAN IS FOUND .. that means there is a possibility they might get away with it but as soon as they are found doing it then the law kicks in…
    Now lets see if my God is inconsistent again.. Can you prove by using Bible that David was found lying with Bathsheba?”

    because yhwh did not FORGIVE the king :

    quote:

    “Has remitted” is not a good translation. In How to Read the Bible (aka How to Read the Jewish Bible), Marc Zvi Brettler says the following:

    This notion of intergenerational punishment…is illustrated, for example, when God “transfers” David’s sin to the child of his adulterous affair with Bathsheba, and that child dies (2 Sam. 12:13-14)…That the child’s death is a punishment of David is clear in the Hebrew text, though the point is obscured by translations (including that of JPS) that incorrectly render he-evir (…”has transferred”) as “has remitted”…

    Likewise, A. Graeme Auld states on pp. 467-468 of his commentary on 1 and 2 Samuel:

    The term h ‘byr is well known in the books of Samuel and always implies movement from one place or side to another. It is used of Jesse’s parading his son in front of Samuel (1 Sam. 16:8-10), or of Jonathan’s shooting an arrow past his servant (20:36). It is used of bringing David and his household back across the Jordan (2 Sam 19) and of transferring the monarchy from the house of Saul to the house of David (3:10). Thus, h ‘byr does not mean “forgive,” or at least does not mean forgive in the sense of wish away, or remove the sin into nothingness.

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      now tell me, since adultery is unforgivable sin and yhwh did not forgive king david, why did he PUNISH his child , answer piggy.

      Like

    2. mr.heathcliff

      dirty larry, since i have proven to you that your pagan god yhwh divided into three triplets , is inconsistent with his justice and punishment , can u tell me why u worship such inconsistent disgusting triplets? i have proven to you above that david commited adultery and yhwh let it go by punishiing someone else. david remainED UNFORGIVEN FOR A CRIME which has NO forgiveness. lol

      now tell me, why ur FILTHY god inconsistent???

      Like

  23. mr.heathcliff

    “Lot’s daughters didn’t knowingly commit any sin do I need to show you again?”

    your god yhwh commmited the sin by not reminding them that their were plenty of men.
    its like you are on IRELAND and you just have your grandfather with you. you tell your grandfather “i have to eat you otherwise i will die”

    I KNOWINGLY know that there is food AROUND the corner and stay silent, who is at fault here?
    i speak to you on MOBILE PHONE , i tell dog like you,
    “hey don’t eat your dad, there is FOOD around the corner ”

    if i keep silent, its my fault for letting u eat your daddy, right? pig ?

    yhwh commited sin, thats the point and his “righteous” lot commited sin by letting his kids get him drunk. when he finnished with the first, he had to get prepared for the second. he had no idea he was having sex with his own kids? holy spirit was watching. yhwh was watching. his SECOND daughter was listning . lol
    what yhwh doing ?

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “2.But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,[b] 8 and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

      whoever does x does y
      y = divorce and marring another

      Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

      divorce and marrying another = adultery

      what is adultery :

      adultery
      /əˈdʌlt(ə)ri/
      Learn to pronounce
      noun
      voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse.

      jesus’ understanding of adultery is “divorce and re-marrying”

      jesus does not say that a man having sex with another BREAKS what god joined together.

      is this a case where matthew messed up by adding exception clause???

      Like

  24. mr.heathcliff

    larry the pig is shameless.

    2 Samuel 11:4 Then David sent messengers, and took her; and she came to him, and he lay with her
    2 Samuel 12:12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.

    ////

    Now with all this verses above we can see That for one to be put to death 1st they will need to be caught having sex with a married woman there is no indication David was caught and also they will need 2 to 3 witnesses before they can kill the person..

    ////

    what does secretly mean piglot? who revealed his secret ? lol

    Liked by 1 person

  25. stewjo004

    @ AB and Vaqas

    I am really disappointed in both of you for letting this statement by “double L” go unpunished:

    “I cant really say I know the measurement that God use for punishment after some one ask for forgivenes…”

    He just admitted that one can repent and ask for forgiveness…so what’s the point for his demigod’s sacrifice and thus his whole religion then?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. mr.heathcliff

      I thought it was well known by now that to a crosstian “forgiveness” means punishing another and letting go of criminal.

      and since the hebrew indicates that yhwh did not “forgive” but “transfer davids crime unto his infant” then there was no forgiveness .

      Liked by 1 person

  26. mr.heathcliff

    Bible wrote;
    “When the Israelites were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses, Aaron, and to the whole congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp.” 36 The whole congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.”

    yheh said;
    The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp.”

    Dirty larri wrote:
    Now with all this verses above we can see That for one to be put to death 1st they will need to be caught having sex with a married woman there is no indication David was caught and also they will need 2 to 3 witnesses before they can kill the person..

    Bible wrote:
    15 So Nathan went to his house. Then the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s widow bore to David, so that he was very sick.
    16 David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground.
    17 The elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them.
    18 Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died.

    everyone compare what dirty lary said to what the bible actually said

    Liked by 1 person

  27. stewjo004

    * rubs eyes

    While Looney Larry has been trying to defend the Biblical God’s blatant injustice has he ever gotten around to defending it’s racism, genocide and multiple errors? I don’t want to overwhelm him as he hasn’t actually gotten around to reading the Bible apart from “Jesus!” but…

    @ Looney Larry

    1. Yo, why can your concept of God be defeated by its creation?

    “22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.” But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 The man asked him, “What is your name?” “Jacob,” he answered. 28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,[a] because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.” 29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.” But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob called the place Peniel,[b] saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.””

    5Then the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men were building. 6And the LORD said, “If they have begun to do this as one people speaking the same language, then nothing they devise will be beyond them. 7Come, let Us go down and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.”

    2. Why does your concept of God regret and throw temper tantrums if its alleged that it’s “All Knowing”?

    10Then the word of the LORD came to Samuel, saying, 11“I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned away from following Me and has not carried out My instructions.”

    5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. 6And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

    Liked by 2 people

    1. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…Lol that’s funny I am 100% sure you know I didn’t dodge your questions its just that everything everyone is saying is not helping to answer the question I ask regarding Mohamed…”

      Oh, this was over when you admitted marrying your adopted son’s ex-wife is not a sin. You have yet to prove Muhammad(saw) “coveted” anything and demonstrated repeatedly you don’t actually know the story.

      2. “…to commit the sins you guys level against them….”

      We didn’t accuse them of anything, these are the crimes your book levels at them. As noted before you are attempting to you “good character” as a criterion of prophethood but your book basically says all the prophets including Jesus(as) were absolute scum.

      3. “…prove that Mohamed is a real prophet which that is the main goal to prove he is not…”

      And for the 100th time explain what is a prophet to you.

      3.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        @stew

        “And for the 100th time explain what is a prophet to you.”

        Based on his answer from the zoom talk he doesn’t really have one. He just has a vague idea based on the supposed statement of Jesus(a.s) saying he is the way truth and the life and no comes to to the father except through him.

        Liked by 2 people

  28. mr.heathcliff

    The filthy dog wrote:
    You are right you don’t reject hadiths willingly but you were not there and people that reject the hadiths were not there when everything happened to Mohamed .. some might have seen something other didn’t see that don’t make it a lie… but every hadith that is damaging to Mohamed you reject

    Question:

    We have hadeeths which show favour to islam but are rejected because they dont fit the criteria of authenticity. HADEETH WHICH ARE DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN AND FIT CRITERIA ARE ACCEPTED

    By fareed


    Now dog piece, u were a muslim, how come u didnt know this?

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Larry

        Lol QB are you sure I waked into it very funny Guy. Go and read it again I will not say more. I will reply to everyone tomorrow it’s late I am not ignoring or running away

        Like

      2. Donkey Larry, get to it. I know you’re stalling so you can Google for an answer. And once you’re done with that, don’t forget about responding to my now 2-day old response. You can run, but you can’t hide.

        Like

      3. 🤣😂 Lol!! Donkey Larry is really confused! You sounded pretty sure before! What happened?

        You pathetic Donkey, why did your god tell Hosea to first marry a prostitute, then to “love” an adulteress, and thus, become an adulterer himself?

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Larry

        You pathetic Donkey, why did your god tell Hosea to first marry a prostitute, then to “love” an adulteress, and thus, become an adulterer himself?

        Lol QB I am not running away or googling anything I already told you in the middle of the night to read it again .. student are going back to school next week and I am just preparing for it … you got it all wrong… I told you in the middle of the night to read it again.. I still don’t know why you will ask this question if you read it… what God told Hosea to do is not a sin, To marry a prostitute is not a sin, and again it was the same wife God told him to love again because after Hosea got married to her she still continue doing prostitution .. You think God told him to marry another woman no God told him to go back love his wife maybe you should read ESR or NLT or NIV bible then you can understand

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      5. 😂🤣 Silly donkey, you are a joke! There is NO evidence that this was the same woman as from chapter 1. Let’s read the Benson Commentary”

        “ew עוד לךְ אהב אשׁה, and is the sense in which It is understood by the LXX., who read, ετι πορευθητι, και αγαπησον γυναικα; and by the Vulgate, which renders it, Adhuc vade et dilige mulierem. A different woman from the person whom he had espoused before seems evidently to be intended. Thus St. Jerome and St. Cyril of Alexandria understand the words, considering the connection here spoken of as a new one, formed after the dismission of Gomer”.

        Oops. 😂

        And as I said before, even if you want to insist it was his first wife Gomer, you STILL have the problem of your god once again not requiring the punishment for an adulterer as the law required. Your god sure loved to break his own laws, didn’t he?

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      6. And it gets worse for you, donkey. Even IF you wanted to argue that the woman is his first wife, that would make her an adulteress, and thus, the law requires that she be stoned to death! Yet, as with David, your god ONCE AGAIN broke his own law! Instead of telling Hosea to bring his wife to a court to be tried and executed for adultery, your god told Hosea to take her back as his legal wife. 😂😂 Your god was really happy letting adulterers off the hook!

        But we don’t need to go that route anyway. The text does not indicate that his first wife was the woman. It must be a different woman, which means that your god told Hosea to commit adultery.

        Like

  29. Larry

    @ Stew

    QB Speaking of faking revelations, Larry says God would never force a prophet to marry someone else and that it’s really his desire, so I guess we can conclude the prophet Hosea faked revelation to marry a prostitute:

    STEW 1Then the LORD said to me, “Go show love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and offer raisin cakes to idols.” 2So I bought her for fifteen shekels of silver and a homer and a lethech of barley.d 3Then I said to her, “You must live with me for many days; you must not be promiscuous or belong to another, and I will do the same for you.” (Hosea 3:1-3)

    STEW I will now be Larry (ahem):

    “Why God marry believer to whore? She make love to other men then kiss prophet on mouth afterwards. What God allow these things? Don’t be emotional. Clearly fake prophet.”

    Lol funny guy read Hosea you will see why God told him to… but did he Sin? lol you guys still missing the point…

    Lol now let me ask you If God ask you to go to war that you might not come back or marry a prostitute which one will you pick? Lool I am just kidding I know which one you will pick… Lol you will go to war and die lol Stew Stew Stew you are funny with your question.. anyway guys please let us move on to another I can see all you wanna do is accuse the Victim instead of defend your client

    Like

    1. You’re stuck again, donkey Larry. I’m still waiting for your delayed response to me, but I am willing to wait a little longer now as I watch you try to weasel your way out of defending your god telling Hosea to commit adultery.
      “And the Lord said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by another man and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins.””
      You’re finished, donkey Larry. You and your god are a joke. 🤣

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Vaqas Rehman

      @Larry

      “Lol funny guy read Hosea you will see why God told him to… but did he Sin?”

      Like I said in my other reply to you, I would assume not punishing a known fornicator would be a sin under the law of God.

      ” lol you guys still missing the point…”

      Uh no you are. The point was to illustrate you’re double standard and inconsistent approach. Let me ask you again Larry, did the prophet WANT to marry a prostitute? What evidence do you have that he’s not a liar making up the divine mission to fulfill his carnal desires?.

      “Lol now let me ask you If God ask you to go to war that you might not come back or marry a prostitute which one will you pick? Lool I am just kidding I know which one you will pick… Lol you will go to war and die lol Stew Stew Stew you are funny with your question..”

      …Uh what? No seriously what are you even talking about here?

      “anyway guys please let us move on to another I can see all you wanna do is accuse the Victim instead of defend your client”

      Really ironic coming from you.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. mr.heathcliff

        Dirty christian filth larry said:

        “I still believe he desire to marry Zaynab while she was married, Quran and Hadith say he was scared to of People but not scared to obey Allah”

        So Muhammad pbuh read to friend, fo and skeptic the following:

        “Keep your wife to your self, and fear Allah.” And you were concealing in your heart what Allah was going to reveal, and you were fearing people, while Allah is more entitled to be feared by you

        Think about this now.

        Quote:
        According to the biblical account, Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines

        as u can see, yhwhs pimps had too many women, but a person who is INFLUENCED by yhwhs PIMPS would FORGE verses like the ones above from the quran? Huh???

        Liked by 1 person

    3. stewjo004

      @ Looney Larry

      1. “…we are talking about Sin here come on guys… God cannot tell someone to go commit Sin…”

      Yes, and you have yet to prove a sin has taken place dumb@$$. Again you have admitted marrying your adopted son’s ex-wife is not a sin. The only thing you can do is assume. So with that being said I will use the same train of thought as you and say Hosea faked revelation from God so he could get topped off 🍆💦 by Tammy the Crackwhore 🍑 without being judged for it as it’s completely unnecessary for the “metaphor” to go and marry her. (Not to mention the awkwardness of somebody else already loving her. Didn’t you say something earlier about God uniting 2 lovers, which in this case would be the correct term?)

      2.”…that is exactly why I said Mohamed faked his revelation because he knew people will call him out on it…”

      What’s there to “call out”? No sin has been committed and it was the hypocrites who made a big deal about it.

      3. “..Lool I am just kidding I know which one you will pick… Lol you will go to war and die”

      Yes…because I am not a coward like you lol. You go ahead and enjoy your fornicating wife…

      4. “….all you wanna do is accuse the Victim instead of defend your client…”

      (Sigh) Even if you want to use this “courtroom” metaphor (notice we don’t need to actually go down and stand in one for the point to be made btw) You would be considered being creamed as all you have done is engage in “conjecture ” which is defined as:

      : inference formed without proof or sufficient evidence
      b: a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork

      Liked by 2 people