OPEN FORUM

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1,820 thoughts on “OPEN FORUM

  1. “When the verse ((Verily you are a warner, and to every nation there is a guide)) was revealed, the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) put his hand on his chest and said, “I am the warner.” Then he directed his hands towards ‘Ali and said, “You are the guide O ‘Ali, people shall be guided through you after me.”

    There are basically three main defects in this narration:

    Hasan b. Husain al-Ansari al-‘Urani was an unreliable narrator. Abu Hatim said, “He was not a truthful person according to scholars and he was from the leading shi’ites.” Ibn ‘Adi said, “He was Munkar al-Hadith.” Ibn Hibban said, “He would bring made up narrations from reliable narrators and narrate interchanged narrations.” See “Lisan al-Mizan” (3/33)
    Mu’adh bin Muslim was unknown as a hadith narrator as pointed out by Al-Dhahabi. Mizan al-I’itidal (4/132)
    ‘Ataa bin Saa’ib’s memory deteriorated in his later life and only that narration of ‘Ataa are accurate which he narrated before it. Therefore only those who are identified as his early companions who heard from him earlier are reliable while narrating from him. Mu’adh bin Muslim besides being unreliable, also not identified among his early companions. See “Sharh ‘Ilal al-Tirmidhi” (2/734-738) for a list of those narrators whose narrations are accurate from ‘Ataa.
    Adding to these defects, there is a fourth factor which exposes this fabricated narration. Again Sufyan Al-Thawri brought the accurate version of this narration. Hence, Ibn Jareer narrated in Tafsir (16/354) and Ibn Abi Hatim in Tafsir (12148, 12150) through Sufyan who narrated from ‘Ataa bin Saa’ib from Sa’eed bin Jubair who said regarding the meaning of the verse, “The Warner is Muhammad, and Guide is Allah.”

    This is the accurate narration of ‘Ataa narrated by one of the most reliable narrator Sufyan Thawri who heard from ‘Ataa before his memory turned weak. What those unreliable narrators did is to change the narration from the statement of Taba’i into the statement of the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) and then add the name of Ibn ‘Abbas into it.

    In conclusion, we can say there is nothing proven from the narrations which suggest that title of “the Guide” in the verse was revealed for ‘Ali. In fact, this theory goes against the apparent of the Qur’an, while other interpretations are mainly based on different verses of Qur’an. And Allah knows best

    https://alsonnah.wordpress.com/

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @the expert
    Hey dude, how are we supposed to interpretate the Adam peace be upon him and eve procreation? Like literally as in their offspring intermarrying or some other alternative.

    Like

    1. Allah knows best,

      Ibn Jareer at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated, with his isnaad from as-Suddi:

      It was narrated from as-Suddi, in his narration from Abu Maalik and from Abu Saalih from Ibn ‘Abbaas, and from Murrah from Ibn Mas‘ood, and from some of the companions of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): No son was born to Adam but a daughter would be born with him, and the boy from this pregnancy would marry the girl from another pregnancy, and the girl from this pregnancy would marry a boy from another pregnancy… End quote. Tafseer at-Tabari (8/322).

      Like

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        Does anyone know what the theological canonicity of narrations like this which are attributed to some of the companions but not necessarily from the Prophet(s.a.w) are? I ask because I’ve seen people either reject them outright or say that it could be true but still lean toward not believing in them. Is choosing not to believe in these types of narrations as serious as not believing in some of the Hadith or Quran?

        Like

      2. stewjo004

        @ Vaqas

        The answer is it depends on the type of narration. If it’s, for example, the matter of the ghayb and the Sahabi says “On the Day of Judgment such and such will happen…” we automatically assume they heard this from the Prophet(saw) because logically no one will just say that. If however they just say or do something (an example off the top of my head is Abu Huraira was caught doing wudu by having the water go all the way up to his shoulders instead of elbows because he wanted it to shine more on the Day of Judgment) This would have no basis to us. Another reason something could have no basis is we can also assume they got this from Israyelot narrations so the reality is, it depends.

        Liked by 1 person

  3. Assalamu alaikum,

    Guys, I would like to ask you couple of questions if you don’t mind, and the questions may seem weird.

    1. In Paradise, if a son of Adam wishes to marry a female Jinn and to even have sexual intercourse with her, will Allah Almighty arrange such marriage and will even grant to them the Permission to have sexual intercourse?

    2. Are there conditions when masturbation becomes permissible? If yes, what are those conditions?

    Jazakhalakhair

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @alexander

      1. Can’t see why not. I wasn’t originally planning to if I made it but thanks for the idea. In seriousness though, Allah hu alim I would assume from this ayah we might have some sexual compatibility:

      “In them are beautiful and charming maidens… Dark eyed, they wait in anticipation in sheltered domed buildings… Never before touched by man or Jinn.” (55:70-74)

      2. I believe agreed upon is a Muslim POW, just stopped yourself from committing zina, and though a difference of opinion general permissibility, if no porn or drugs are used.

      Like

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        @Stew

        Thanks for answering my question. I brought it up cause I know that the idea that the early generations of humans expanded their population via incest is deemed controversial both theologically and scientifically among some Muslims.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. stewjo004

        @ Vaqas

        May Allah ease you in the remaining matters and replace wat as lost with what’s better.

        Uhhh I’m not sure enough on scientific controversies (again QB department) but I would debate on theological controversy as we could just say this was Adam’s(as) Shariah.

        Liked by 3 people

      3. mr.heathcliff

        Faiz,just listened to your kalamogy podcast, that case guy is kind of delusional

        when it was pointed out to him that david willingly did the crime of adultery and solomon willingly worshiped the idols, the pagan said “but but but, they weren’t bewitched”
        but if satan beautified the crimes of idolatry and adultery, how werent they bewitched /tricked?

        yet the prophet pbuh never did a crime when he was “bewitched” .

        Liked by 1 person

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        @Hero

        I’m doing better comparatively than I was. Still have some things I need to work out in my life and all that but the issue I requested Dua’s for have been all but resolved by the will of Allah(S.W.T) Thanks again for the dua’s btw. I think I already said this but it truly means so much to me.

        Liked by 3 people

  4. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @stew
    Hey dude, I have some doubts regarding the prophet peace and blessings upon him :
    A. The wives of the prophet peace and blessings upon him were given the choice of divorcing him. In the verse itself, it says that if the wives liked the glamour of this world then they would be let off handsomely. Wouldn’t this negate the whole given the choice part as liking the glamour of this world is seen as a bad thing?
    B. In a report altho I can’t find it, it says that the companions asked the prophet peace and blessings upon him that if it is OK to attack the mushrikeen even if the women and children are exposed to danger. He replied that the women and children are apart of the mushrikeen. How are we supposed to interpretate that?
    I’m having a crisis of faith again, how can we trust the reports concerning the prophet’s actions? How can it not be just exaggeration or deliberate misleading? What would be the difference between the historicity of our traditions and reports compared to the Christians?
    I’m sorry its just that reading some of Ali sinas statements had gone through me and Im beginning to doubt of some of my knowledge and even the honesty of some of the Muslim brothers as I for some reason try to find faults in their arguments and just acceptwhat those islamaphobes are saying. I also think that if their responses are dishonest or have faults in them then that means the entire credibility of Islam is questionable
    Please make dua for me and please clarify these doubts.

    Like

    1. Assalamualaikum Mishal, chill bro…relax…come here have some tea hehe

      “The wives of the prophet peace and blessings upon him were given the choice of divorcing him. In the verse itself, it says that if the wives liked the glamour of this world then they would be let off handsomely. Wouldn’t this negate the whole given the choice part as liking the glamour of this world is seen as a bad thing?”

      Which verse?

      “In a report altho I can’t find it, it says that the companions asked the prophet peace and blessings upon him that if it is OK to attack the mushrikeen even if the women and children are exposed to danger. He replied that the women and children are apart of the mushrikeen. How are we supposed to interpretate that?”

      First we need to make it clear, I’m sure you already know there are many other hadiths forbidding the kill women and children, and now you have this hadith saying otherwise…first question you need to ask yourself is why the difference in that *specific* case?

      “OK to attack the mushrikeen even if the women and children are exposed to danger. ”

      The context of the danger was such it was a night raid and it was hard to discern who was a combatant and who was not (Fog of war) plus the mission was vital for Muslims mind you

      “They are of/among them”

      This statement is what bothers many there are two interpretations for it

      1) Fight in a way that anybody crossing your path is a possible combatant, not that it is generally permissible, it’s just that they couldn’t discern between civilian or foe due to the dark plus the mission was a vital one and they had to accomplish it that’s why there was an exception in that case but logically if it was clear to them that a kid or a woman was in front of them they shouldn’t do it

      2) It could be that the women and children were/are used to fight the Muslims or were planning to, in that case considering the risky circumstances surrounding the raid they’re considered as highly dangerous therefore a danger to the lives of allied fighters (whose safety should be a priority)

      “How can it not be just exaggeration or deliberate misleading?”

      Very *unlikely* just by looking at the narration and the context alone, I don’t think there’s any agenda to be achieved here (which would need exaggerations or deceit), just basic logic and a practical point that sometimes collateral damage is unavoidable…and also Yahya bin Yahya bin Bukayr who is the last narrator is very reliable judging from the other hadiths he transmitted so once again very unlikely

      https://isnad.io/rawi/30399

      “What would be the difference between the historicity of our traditions and reports compared to the Christians?”.

      Do they have an Isnad system with stringent verification? All we have are so called early writings with heavy issues in terms of authenticity and authorship and dating, nor can we be sure the authors met the apostles or even each other, the lives of each person isn’t known to multiple reliable third party sources compared to hadith narrators who were known to many (each have their biography written by hadith scholars)

      For the hadiths, let’s take a narration, we have a chain, scholars always make sure the narrator met the previous narrator, they also investigate the context of how he got the narration (for example is transmitter A was in baghdad in year 8 but Mr. narrator says he got it from transmitter A in Damascus in the same period then we have a problem), they also make sure that each person in the chain is known and reliable, they also make sure the whole chain is connected without any gap in terms of period, they also verify if the narration is corroborated by other narrarions from other sahih chains, they also verify the trustworthiness of the narrator through third party sources as well as from his other narrations, if the narrator claims to have studied from transmitter A this should be confirmed by outside sources as well such as eyewitnesses, I can go on, infact even geographical gap is taken into account…this is a whole stringent system of verification, the Christian traditions are nowhere near

      “I’m sorry its just that reading some of Ali sinas statements had gone through me and Im beginning to doubt of some of my knowledge and even the honesty of some of the Muslim brothers as I for some reason try to find faults in their arguments and just acceptwhat those islamaphobes are saying”

      I understand your pain, trust me you’re overthinking and my suggestion is to leave it to your reasoning instead of overthinking, if you find a refutation and it addresses all points convincingly with facts then you have no reason to overthink, it is what it is take it that way, I know your brain is thinking of multiple scenarios right now like “what if he’s wrong what if he’s dishonest what if he’s missing something”, the key term is is “what if”, this is what you should get rid of and instead analyze each opposing arguments and compare the points, if the refutation makes more sense then that should close the debate otherwise all that is left is mere assumptions.

      Stay cool bro I’m here to help, Stew is also here as usual

      “Please make dua for me and please clarify these doubts.”

      May Allah ease your heart little bro

      Like

      1. “What would be the difference between the historicity of our traditions and reports compared to the Christians?”.

        and if that include the NT then same thing, anonymous, no conclusive proof the writers ever met jesus, uncertainty in terms of dating, debate around authenticity surrounded by conjecture….not comparable really

        Like

    2. stewjo004

      @ Mishal

      Down the line:

      A. To begin let’s bring up the verse in Surah Ahzab as it does not say they like the glamor of this world or makes it a bad thing per se:

      Prophet, tell your wives: “If you want this life and its glitter, then come, I will make means for you and kindly set you free. But if what you want is God, His Messenger and the Final Home, then God has prepared an enormous reward for those of you who do good.” (33:28-29)

      The context here is after the Prophet (ﷺ) essentially almost conquered the Arabian peninsula his (ﷺ) wives wanted an increase in their allowance. As part of his household, again that standard for him they had to remain a certain lifestyle.

      B. Regarding the hadith of the night raid in Sahih Muslim:

      It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (ﷺ), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said:

      They are from them.
      https://sunnah.com/muslim:1745a

      The first point is we have explicit narrations about deliberately targeting them:

      Narrated `Abdullah:

      During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet (ﷺ) a woman was found killed. Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) disapproved the killing of women and children.
      https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3014

      Now going past that this may make some people uncomfortable but there is a thing in combat called “the fog of war” and yes sometimes non-combatants get killed. I’ll use a modern context to explain, let’s pretend you and I are in the military and we are basically doing one of the most dangerous jobs for infantry, house clearing. House clearing is extremely dangerous because as the assaulter it’s basically going through fighting through mini ambushes and everyone basically knows you’re coming. Now as clearing we know hostages etc are in there. Let’s say as we’re clearing this building I shoot an enemy; the bullet goes through them and a wall hitting a woman by mistake on the other side. The question is, did I murder someone right now and have the sin on my scale for it? No, as that was not my intention to kill her but in the craziness and stress of the fighting, it happened. I was not in any way, shape or form deliberately shooting at that woman. Bringing this back to the hadith one thing if you live in the city is without streetlights etc the night is really pitch black they didn’t have things like night vision etc so when they did this night raid sometimes civilians were killed in the crossfire of attacking which is why the Prophet (ﷺ) disapproved the killing of women and children if it can be avoided. As for the history of the Christian text its an apple and oranges thing. Here just look at how their “book” Corinthians got assembled and explain anything like this in Islam:

      May Allah remove the doubts from your heart and make you one of the greatest defenders of Islam. Ameen.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. “Prophet, tell your wives: “If you want this life and its glitter, then come, I will make means for you and kindly set you free. But if what you want is God, His Messenger and the Final Home, then God has prepared an enormous reward for those of you who do good.” (33:28-29)”

        When the Divine revelation of Choice was revealed, the Prophet (ﷺ) started with me, saying to me, ‘I am telling you something, but you need not hurry to give the reply till you can consult your parents.” `Aisha knew that her parents would not advise her to part with the Prophet (ﷺ) . The Prophet (ﷺ) said that Allah had said: ‘O Prophet! Say To your wives; If you desire The life of this world And its glitter, … then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free In a handsome manner. But if you seek Allah And His Apostle, and The Home of the Hereafter, then Verily, Allah has prepared For the good-doers amongst you A great reward.’ (33.28) `Aisha said, ‘Am I to consult my parents about this? I indeed prefer Allah, His Apostle, and the Home of the Hereafter.’ After that the Prophet (ﷺ) gave the choice to his other wives and they also gave the same reply as `Aisha did.”

        https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2468

        Liked by 1 person

      2. mr.heathcliff

        “Bringing this back to the hadith one thing if you live in the city is without streetlights etc the night is really pitch black they didn’t have things like night vision etc so when they did this night raid sometimes civilians were killed in the crossfire of attacking which is why the Prophet (ﷺ) disapproved the killing of women and children if it can be avoided.”

        “so when they did this night raid sometimes civilians were killed in the crossfire of attacking which is why the Prophet”

        i am sure i read somewhere that the prophet forbade fighting at night because of the situation you mentioned. faulty memory or does such narration exist?

        Like

  5. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @the expert
    Wa alaikum as-salaam
    Thank you for being so sympathetic. It’s just I read some of call to monotheism articles and I read the opposing parties arguments mentioned in the articles, even though it is by refutation, the thought of what they are saying might be true kinda crept it and it kept growing and growing. Also for some reason, I try to find some faults in the refutors arguments and I did find some so I thought that means that the entire debate is lost and their credibility is to be questioned and stuff. Ik these brothers wouldn’t lie, maybe its due to lack of knowledge. If you are wondering, it is the articles on Ali sina. The ones that bothered me are the articles refuting what Ali said about juwairiyya may Allah be pleased with her and the wives of the prophet peace and blessings upon him and the whole him being a conqueror or whatever, I started doing that whole finding faults in the brothers arguments mindset and it really just increased the doubts. You can check out the articles on call to monotheism, again it’s about Ali sina. I don’t want to picture the one who I love like that, as a lustful conqueror. It’s just…. It felt like someone slandering my relative like my father or something. Its just so…. Idk. Also its just insulting on how he questions the piety of the companions may Allah be pleased with them but not just any companion, that would be bad on its own but a mother of the believers!
    I should know that he is wrong, many brothers and maybe sisters(idk about sisters but) have refuted him. But I kept distrusting them and even to the point of distrusting my own reason, intellect and sanity.
    I wish I just remained ignorant and thats it.

    Like

    1. “I try to find some faults in the refutors arguments and I did find some so I thought that means that the entire debate is lost and their credibility is to be questioned and stuff.”

      List the issues you have with the refutation and also I asked for a verse pertaining to your previous question

      Like

  6. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @the expert
    Unfortunately I can’t find the verse, you can ask stew about it as I know he would know.
    These issues I had with the refutation aren’t specific to a article BTW:
    A. Some of the statements regarding the sahaba. Like in this one article on call to monotheism he said that the prophet peace and blessings upon him didn’t marry teenagers except for two which is hafsa and mariyah even tho the prophet married aisha and mariyah is not even a wife but a concubine.
    B. Sometimes they don’t even address the arguments and other times they address the arguments but not others.
    C. Some of the logic like the children and women would also be hostile to the Muslim soldiers. Is this a possible interpretation?
    I’m sorry if I say anything objectionable to the Lord of the worlds astaghfirullah. Also these issues I saw were on the refutationson Ali sina

    Like

    1. “Unfortunately I can’t find the verse”

      So you have a doubt and you don’t know the supposed verse due to which you have a doubt, why not start fact-checking before overthinking

      “Some of the statements regarding the sahaba.”

      Be specific, when I say specific the least I ask for is a direct quote which shouldn’t be hard I assume…not only you’re saying something vague you didn’t even provide a link

      “Like in this one article on call to monotheism he said that the prophet peace and blessings upon him didn’t marry teenagers except for two which is hafsa and mariyah even tho the prophet married aisha and mariyah is not even a wife but a concubine.”

      which article? i wanna see the context before commenting…send a link at least man

      “Sometimes they don’t even address the arguments and other times they address the arguments but not others.”

      Link? Quote?

      “Some of the logic like the children and women would also be hostile to the Muslim soldiers. Is this a possible interpretation?”

      If by hostile you mean taking up arms then yes very plausible

      During Uhud women were at the back of the meccan forces most probably ready to fight in case if needed, considering how women in the back participated in fighting from time to time in early Arab conquests it’s very plausible they were kept there for fighting as well in case of any eventualities

      And also children on the battlefield wasn’t an unusual sight though not often, Abdullaah ibn al-Zubayr started participating since childhood so once again very plausible, one should remember how the pagans used children in the Taif incident also…

      But hey I hope you remember as well that I provided two different opinions

      Let me quote them again

      “1) Fight in a way that anybody crossing your path is a possible combatant, not that it is generally permissible, it’s just that they couldn’t discern between civilian or foe due to the dark plus the mission was a vital one and they had to accomplish it that’s why there was an exception in that case but logically if it was clear to them that a kid or a woman was in front of them they shouldn’t do it

      2) It could be that the women and children were/are used to fight the Muslims or were planning to, in that case considering the risky circumstances surrounding the raid they’re considered as highly dangerous therefore a danger to the lives of allied fighters (whose safety should be a priority)”

      Liked by 1 person

      1. “Sometimes they don’t even address the arguments and other times they address the arguments but not others.”

        “Link? Quote?”

        I mean at least a link to the part they didn’t repond to or a quote of the argument that was ignored

        Like

  7. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @the expert
    Also in a article:
    https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/does_islam_permit_muslim_men_to_rape_their_slave_girls_
    It says that there are some women in ancient times who would basically offer themselves to the victorious soldiers and consent to being concubines ( I’m paraphrasing btw). Is this fact backed up by evidence in history? Is it true there are some women who did that?
    Again sorry if my tone is a bit off. I have alot of things going on so forgive me.
    May Allah bless you and your family. Ameen

    Like

      1. “It says that there are some women in ancient times who would basically offer themselves to the victorious soldiers and consent to being concubines ( I’m paraphrasing btw)”

        That was common during the Ottomans, but before that idk …though consensual sex with concubines wasn’t an unusual thought, take Abraham and Hagar in the bible for example that would imply that consent was a thing between concubines and the mister back then

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Caliph ibn mumthaz

        https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_ali_sina_s_article__mariyah_the_sex_slave_of_the_holy_prophet_
        In this article, the refutor quotes some weak opinions like mariya being the wife of the prophet peace and blessings upon him.
        https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_ali_sina_s_article__juwairiyah_
        Here the refutor didn’t exactly address some of Ali sinas statements like on how before Islam, there hadn’t been such wars as those declared by the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings upon him ( which is just a huge exaggeration that even islamophobes would be critical of). The reason I take issue with that is that if he didn’t address all the claims then I would think he was dodging those claims instead of addressing them.
        These are some of my issues. I provided the links as well. The first problem I had is that some of the refutors on the site quote weak opinions with regards to who are the wives and their ages. I hope you can clarify.
        May Allah bless you and your family

        Like

      3. “In this article, the refutor quotes some weak opinions like mariya being the wife of the prophet peace and blessings upon him.”

        If he believes in the narration then that’s his problem, either a wife or a concubine both arguments work as a response coz it was permissible for the Prophet PBUH

        Like

      4. “Here the refutor didn’t exactly address some of Ali sinas statements like on how before Islam, there hadn’t been such wars as those declared by the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings upon him ( which is just a huge exaggeration that even islamophobes would be critical of)”

        How is that even an issue? Maybe the word “declared” bothers you but you know that Muslims were oppressed and expelled for striving to convert meccans right? This is what started everything, it started with and from the pagans first

        Like

      5. “The first problem I had is that some of the refutors on the site quote weak opinions with regards to who are the wives and their ages. I hope you can clarify.”

        Can you quote it please? Meanwhile i’ll look at what Bassam ignored and write a response

        Like

      6. Ali Sina also alludes to some “unrelenting genocide”, why would Bassam even respond to that when it’s a vague assertion not backed by any facts

        Like

      7. Multiple times throughout the article Ali sina alludes that the Mustaliq were helpless and attacked for no reason, that’s bollocks, they were gathering for war and it was a surprise attack against them that’s why they were taken while heedless, not coz it was during peace time

        News reached the Messenger of Allah that “Bani Al-Mustaliq” were gathering (army) against him, and their leader was “Dirar ” the father of “Juwayriya Bint Al-Harith”, the wife of the messenger of Allah. So when the messenger of Allah heard about them, he went to meat them (for battle) until he met them at a water place which belongs to them called “Al-Murayse’ “. So people marched against each other and fought, and Allah defeated Bani Al-Mustaliq and the messenger of Allah transported their offspring, women and money and took it as spoils for himself [Ibn Ishaq]

        As for his assertions about the jews, again baseless claims, they all provoked the Muslims from Qurayza to Nadir

        About taking captives Sina says “Is this how a messenger of God should behave?”, eh taking captives was a common practice during that time, as to his point about a messenger doing it, it’s even promoted by God during times of war in the Old Testament and also good to note that slaves aren’t supposed to be mistreated in Islam…basic stuff

        Sina says :”When a Muslim army invaded a town, they would not allow anyone to convert to Islam for three days. During these three days they could kill as many men as they liked, pillage their properties, then rape and enslave their women and children”

        Again I don’t think Bassam needs to respond to that lol, there’s no proof backing it nor I remember the Rashidun doing that

        Sina says : “Captivated by her beauty, he offers to free her, but only on the condition she marry him”

        That’s poor logic, a clear reading of the conversation shows it was a suggestion, she wasn’t forced to marry

        “She said: “you can see the state to which I have been brought. I have fallen to the lot of Thabit, and have given him a deed for ransom, and I have to come to ask your help in the matter.’ He said: ‘would you like something better than that? I will discharge your debt, and marry you.’ she said: ‘yes. O then it is messenger of Allah! “

        Like

      8. “a clear reading of the conversation shows it was a suggestion, she wasn’t forced to marry”

        I mean she still had the choice to pay the ransom and as the daughter of a tribal chief It would’ve eventually been paid logically speaking but instead she chose to marry

        Like

      9. “It would’ve eventually been paid logically speaking”

        Though she would have to wait for a little while as a captive, obviously she didn’t choose to marry just because she had to wait lol that would be a stupid reason, this shows she had other reasons to marry and wasn’t forced

        Like

  8. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @the expert
    I found the verse:

    Surah 33:28-29

    (O Prophet! Say unto thy wives: “If ye desire the world’s life and its adornment, come! I will content you and will release you with a fair release. But if ye desire Allah and His Messenger and the abode of the Hereafter, then lo! Allah hath prepared for the good among you an immense reward”) (Al-Ahzab 33:28-29).

    Can you explain the verse?

    Like

    1. Salam Saab ji,

      I want you to be more specific on your questions and point out the context and link of what is causing you doubts, to make it easier for individuals who answer on here, because it is very frustrating to see you like this while you are vague about what is causing you issues,

      Hope you understand,
      Knight Saab.

      Liked by 2 people

    1. “Are the sources provided accurate?”

      No idea coz they aren’t historians, I’ll have to check their footnotes but I don’t have the books.

      If your doubt is about consent then as I said the idea of concubines consenting to sexual relationship with the master wasn’t an unusual allusion back then

      Like

    2. No you’re not and all i’m asking for is some simple very basic effort on your part when you ask a question to make things easy for everyone….at least a simple highlight of the text while holding the left click, copy and paste and leave the rest to us

      Liked by 1 person

  9. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hero
    Sorry for my behaviour, for being vague and not really telling you what is wrong. It’s just I was having a breakdown and all these thoughts just went through me. I’ve read your responses BTW and I think I’m OK. Idk…… I felt like before this whole crap I was progressing ya know, but now I felt like I went 1000 steps backward. Stew supplicated that I would be one of the defenders of Islam. I think I’m just content with being a pious worshipper instead….. Idk if I could handle it. I really wish I was raised in a different household even… Where people would teach me unadulterated Islam and not some gross parody of it… Idk how to interact with my creator now. I felt like I can’t able to discern if he is punishing me or testing me… Im feeling as tho I’m gonna go through this cycle of doubt over and over again

    Like

    1. Please don’t apologize bruv, you’re in a tough spot I know…here’s the thing, you’re very intelligent and an excellent critical thinker but the issue is that you overthink, the only solution to this is remember how many times your overthinking was proven wrong and learn that as long as a claim isn’t substantiated you have no reason to believe in it

      Like

    2. “Idk how to interact with my creator now. I felt like I can’t able to discern if he is punishing me or testing me… ”

      Allah knows you’re sincere….Allah knows what led you to doubt….Allah knows it’s not your fault….All I see in front of me is a real Muslim with a strong faith striving to find the truth and to preserve his belief

      Like

  10. There’s a common argument among *some* qadianis who try to explain the contradiction between Mirza denying his prophethood and in other later quotes affirming it, they say that the Final Prophet is no doubt Muhammad PBUH and through him the deen was perfected but Mirza was a prophet in the sense that he was a perfect reflection of his message and not that he was a Prophet in the absolute or independent sense, he was just a reflection nor the seal was broken…ofc it’s just a subjective reconciliation of the contradictions not backed by any of his statement plus it’s weak…as for Mirza it was just a trick from him to initially gather followers but I came across one quote of him totally debunking their argument

    “For this Prophet (i.e. Muhammad S.A.) the moon went into eclipse and for me both the sun and moon went into eclipse.” (Ruhani Khaza-in Vol. 19 pg. 183)

    Ofc I can use other quotes of him claiming prophethood but they would still use the same weak argument but in this one particular quote he is explicitly claiming superiority over our Prophet PBUH ergo here goes their poor argument to the dust

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Once Umar Radhiyallahu Anhu (the 2nd caliph) was passing through the door of a house, where a beggar was saying: ” I am old, blind and can not see”.

    `Umar (Radhiyallahu Anhu) tapped him from behind and asked, “Are you a Jew or a Christian?”

    He said: “A Jew.”

    `Umar said: What made you to do this i.e. begging and made you weak.

    He said: I have to pay tax, I am needy and due to my age”

    `Umar took his hand and brought him home, gave him few things, and directed the supervisor of Bait al-Maal (state treasury) and ordered, “Take care of him and the likes of him. By Allah this is not justice that we enjoy the fruits of their labor when they are young, and should be neglectful when they are old.”

    As the verse states: “Obligatory charity expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy ” [at-Tauba verse 60], …. this man is among the needy from people of the book. Thereafter the man and the likes of him were exempted from paying security tax (across the entire islamic caliphate)

    Abu Bakrah said: I am witness of this from Umar and i saw that old Man.

    [Ref: ﻛﺘﺎﺏ ﺍﻟﺨﺮﺍﺝ page 150 by Imam Abu Yusuf student of Imam Abi Hanifah rahimahullah]

    Like

  12. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hero
    Hey dude, I think I’m feeling better now. Now I feel much more at peace and it’s all thanks to you, stew and pretty much all of you. Thank you for being kind with me, being encouraging and having like….. Insane levels of patience lol. There are doubts her and there, but I trust that Allah will guide me and that you guys will do your best to clarify those doubts. I hope I will be more knowledgeable, reasonable inshaallah. I hope you guys will reach the highest degrees in Jan ah and reach a position that will please Allah and that you will also be content with in this world and the final abode of the hereafter. Ameen

    Like

    1. Sup champ

      “There are doubts her and there, but I trust that Allah will guide me and that you guys will do your best to clarify those doubts”

      Do share

      “I hope you guys will reach the highest degrees in Jan ah and reach a position that will please Allah and that you will also be content with in this world and the final abode of the hereafter. Ameen”

      Ameen bro

      Like

  13. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    Assalaamu alaikum
    Hey guys, is there like a narration from the sahaba May Allah be pleased with them or from the later successive generations that explain the special relationship between Dawood peace be upon him and Adam peace be upon him? Its just that Dawood and Adam peace be upon them are mentioned as being khaleefas upon the earth and in the narration of Adam peace be upon him being shown his progeny, he specifically asked Allah to give years from his lifespan to specifically dawood’s peace be upon him. Can you clarify?

    Like

    1. Narrated Abu Hurairah:

      that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “When Allah created Adam He wiped his back and every person that He created among his offspring until the Day of Resurrection fell out of his back. He placed a ray of light between the eyes of every person. Then He showed them to Adam and he said: ‘O Lord! Who are these people?’ He said: ‘These are your offspring.’ He saw one of them whose ray between his eyes amazed him, so he said: ‘O Lord! Who is this?’ He said: ‘This is a man from the latter nations of your offspring called Dawud.’ He said: ‘Lord! How long did you make his lifespan?’ He said: ‘Sixty years.’ He said: ‘O Lord! Add forty years from my life to his.’ So at the end of Adam’s life, the Angel of death of came to him, and he said: ‘Do I not have forty years remaining?’ He said:Did you not give them to your son Dawud?’” He said: “Ādam denied, so his offspring denied, and Ādam forgot and his offspring forgot, and Ādam erred, so his offspring erred.” [At-Tirmidhi no. 3356]

      Like

    2. “Its just that Dawood and Adam peace be upon them are mentioned as being khaleefas upon the earth ”

      Not in the same narration, not sure if in other hadiths…it’s in the Quran tho (2:30, 38:26), they were caliphs in as vicegerents

      Like

  14. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hero
    Thanks for showing me the narration but my actual question is whether there is any scholarly explanation as to why they are likened to one another.

    Like

    1. There’s no such narration you were asking for that’s why I simply quoted the hadith as it explains itself, as you can read he just happened to see him and was amazed by the ray that’s what caught his attention specifically to Dawood, there’s no “parallel” or “likening” is being drawn, it’s just an event that happened and being narrated but it does show a special relationship (with the reason already shown) like you asked about….as for them being vicegerents it can be applied to other prophets as well so no narrow parallelism here

      Like

  15. caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hero
    Hey dude
    Tgis might be a weird question but what is the relationship between the prophet peace and blessings upon him and mariyah may Allah be please with her? Is it purely just sexual ( which im perfectly fine btw this aint a doubt lol)?

    Like

    1. Ah better quote it

      In this article, I am not interested in delving into traditional Muslim-Quranist polemics. Rather, I am primarily interested in exploring the Quranist paradigm and taking it to its logical conclusion.Though the Quranist doctrine fundamentally revolves around the utilization of the Quran as the sole source of Islamic legislation/guidance, it ironically ends up undermining the entire basis and authenticity of the Quran for two (related) reasons:

      Its inability to demonstrate the authenticity of the Quran itself.
      Its inability to explain the presence of textual variations in the Quran today.
      The Quran’s Authenticity
      Since the Quranist polemic is mostly directed at other Muslims who already take the Quran’s authenticity for granted, its logical conclusions are often overlooked. The rejection of primary historical sources that have documented the history of the Quran results in absolute ignorance in the history of the Quran’s compilation and its authenticity.

      When was the Quran compiled?
      Who compiled it into its current arrangement/form?
      Who outlined its script?
      Who outlined the diacritical marks in its script?
      How can one ensure the authenticity of our current recension of the Quran?
      All of these questions are questions one simply cannot answer if he/she were to entirely dismiss the hadith canon, which provides necessary historical context behind the compilation of the Quran.

      Some may claim that the Quran is mutawātir (mass-transmitted), and, thus, definitively authentic. Asides from blindly following later authorities on the Quran who had claimed that the Quran was mutawātir, the Quranist polemicist simply cannot substantiate this claim. Blindly following those authorities is self-defeating, since they all considered hadith collections to be viable sources of Islamic legislation.

      Some may cite 15:9 (and similar verses) to argue for the Quran’s authenticity; however, such appeals are circular, since they already presume the authenticity of the Quran. The Quranist narrative simply cannot demonstrate the authenticity of the Quran independently of the Quran. It is merely grounded in several assumptions upon which the entire doctrine is based.

      The Ten Qirā’āt: Errors or Recitations?
      As known, various parts of the Muslim world recite the Quran in different modes/recitations, known as qirā’āt. The textual variation in these different recitations varies in nature and spans differences in pronunciation, spelling and meaning. The geographical distribution of the qirā’āt has constantly changed throughout history, and the most prominent recitation in the Muslim world today is the recitation of Ḥafṣ b. Sulaymān al-Kūfī (d. 180), which he reportedly inherited from his stepfather, ‘Āsim b. Abī al-Nujūd (d. 127). The recitation is commonly referred to as Ḥafṣ ‘an Āsim.

      The predominant recitation in North and West Africa is the recitation of ‘Uthmān b. Sa’īd al-Miṣrī (d. 197), who was known as Warsh. Warsh partially inherited his recitation from his teacher, Nāfi’ b. ‘Abdurrahmān al-Madanī (d. 169). The recitation of another student of Nāfi, ‘Isā b. Mīna al-Madanī (d. 160), who was known as Qālūn, is prominent in Libya and Tunisia today.

      The geographic distribution of the recitations across the Muslim world, however, has varied throughout history due to many factors. Ibn al-Jazarī (d. 855), for example, noted that the predominant recitation in Al-Shām, Hejaz, Egypt and Yemen during his time was that of Abū ‘Amr al-Baṣrī (d. 154) (Ibn al-Jazarī 292). This would quickly change, however, as the Ottomans institutionalized and enforced the recitation of Ḥafṣ, which, as a result, became the predominant recitation in the Muslim world till this day.

      Nevertheless, the presence of textual variants in the different qirā’āt of the Quran does not necessarily pose a problem to traditional Muslim scholarship, since it is authentically established, as reported by al-Bukhārī, Muslim, Abū Dawūd, al-Tirmiḍī, al-Nasā’ī and many others, that the Prophet recited the Quran in different modes of recitation (aḥruf). These variants in recitation can thus be contextualized and explained by the Prophet’s recitation of the Quran in different modes. Even traditional scholars who held the position that some errors may exist in some of the qirā’āt were able to navigate their way through these different recitations, since they believed that the Prophet himself was a source of textual variations in the Quran.

      Since Quranists reject the authenticity and authority of Prophetic traditions, they have no basis for the concept of qirā’āt and Quranic modes of recitation. Rather, the implication of the Quranist polemic is that all of the discrepancies in the qirā’āt simply are errors and accretions that have gradually accumulated in the Quran as it was disseminated across the centuris. They have no way to differentiate the “erroneous” from the “correct” in the Quran today.

      Most Quranists simply opt to recite the Quran according to the recitation of Ḥafṣ, for no reason other than the fact that it is recited by the majority of Muslims today.

      Conclusion
      The purpose of this article is not to appeal to the necessity of the hadith canon out of desperation, for we have, on several occasions, outlined the objective reasons behind our belief in the integrity of the hadith canon. Rather, the purpose of this article is to demonstrate how the Quranist paradigm, which calls for the sole reliance upon the Quran for guidance and legislation, ultimately undermines the authenticity of the Quran itself. This ironic reality is often overlooked due to the fact that the Quranist polemic is mostly directed at Muslims who already believe in the authenticity of the Quran. By taking the Quranist doctrine to its logical conclusion, we can observe its flaws, defects and contradictions. Similarly, we are able observe the double standard of this paradigm, which prides itself in its intense historical skepticism with Prophetic traditions yet laxly presumes the historical authenticity of the entire Quran for no objective reason(s).

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

    @hero
    Seriously tho, reading that ali sinas guys articles, if i hadmt known he is an atheist i woukd have thought hes a radical christian or something. He doesnt even pretend to be of tgose so called rational atheist, instead he just goes on and on with assumptions and blah,blah. Also he claims some bold things about islam and then proceeded to not even quote evidence afaik ( i didnt read any articles, did you?) Like on how before islam, women had a higher status. It wouldve been great if he actually provided evidence but instaed he just says to the lines of khadeejah may Allah be pleased with her is a business woman so tgis means women before islam had a high status. Again i didnt read his articles so he might have but you cam fact check on that one. But seriously tho, thats just poor logic and not even a good argument. Also he casts asperasions upon the hadith,saying they lie and fabricate about things and events but again provided no evidence. We dont just claim that eesa peace be upon him wasnt crucified, instead we provide evidence as to why it is. Also im curious, is his site still active? Its just i saw one of the snippits of his article on mariyah may Allah be pleased with her in call to montheisms artcle, since its old, im wondering if he is still active?

    Like

  17. “Seriously tho, reading that ali sinas guys articles, if i hadmt known he is an atheist i woukd have thought hes a radical christian or something”

    I heard he converted…not sure tho

    “Also he claims some bold things about islam and then proceeded to not even quote evidence afaik ( i didnt read any articles, did you?)”

    Sometimes I do

    and yeah his website is still active

    “instaed he just says to the lines of khadeejah may Allah be pleased with her is a business woman so tgis means women before islam had a high status. Again i didnt read his articles so he might have but you cam fact check on that one”

    Ah his emotional arguments, I can write a whole essay debunking this but hey if he wanna use wealth and influence as a criteria then simply read about Samra Nuhayk

    Like

      1. Caliph ibn mumthaz

        @hero
        Wait he converted? Oh no is it a Islam critiqued situation again? Anyways, have you heard of this YouTube channel called Al muqaddima? It’s a history channel focusing on Islamic history ( the channel is run by a Muslim brother btw)

        Like

      2. “Wait he converted? Oh no is it a Islam critiqued situation again”

        Not sure lol

        “Anyways, have you heard of this YouTube channel called Al muqaddima? It’s a history channel focusing on Islamic history ( the channel is run by a Muslim brother btw)”

        Yes

        Like

      3. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

        @hero
        He recently made a video in collaboration with 2 other youtubers called did muhammad peace and blessings upon him existed. I want your tgoughts on the video. Also i wish i could link it but im locked out of youtube simce my tab has parent control due to….reasons. ( btw its not porn OK)

        Like

      4. @Mishal, video is fine, agree with him on some and questioned some of his points after watching it but will discuss with him on discord if I get the chance, May God bless him for his efforts, Love his channel…one point I’d add and clarify is that even from a secular perspective the hadiths would be enough for proving historicity, the claim that hadiths being compiled in books way later than the death of the Prophet PBUH somehow is too weak for historicity imo doesn’t work due to the fact that those compilations have a source in the first place and we all agree on this…but the question pops up how stringent are the sources historically speaking, from a *secular* perspective we can “toss out” single chains of narrations (ironic considering how mainstream historians approach early christianity) but many hadiths concerning important events of the Prophet’s PBUH life are Mutawwatir ergo transmitted by a large number of narrators through different chains, we can break those chains into 2 parts

        1)Either they come from a single second narrator at the top

        2) Or they come from multiple different second narrators (some narrations have 74 like think about it)

        In both cases chances of fabrication is very minim but number 2 is very special due to the fact that it is a common type but also it would be **very improbable** that a **large** number of people would fabricate different chains for the same matn

        Like

      5. Btw Mishal any school materials you can share to learn some basic dhivehi? Ik there’s many out there but better ask from a native….so im tryna learn Farsi (ongoing), Hebrew, Greek (already ongoing), dhivehi is on my list, Tamil as well, German (ongoing)

        Like

      6. Caliph ibn mumthaz

        @hero
        Woow learning a alot of languages huh? Didn’t realise you were cultured not only in memes but…. Culturally eeeh get it i- nevermind. Unfortunately I can’t as again my tablet is parent controlled and my parents would be sus about it soo sorry man. I’d recommend you try to take some online course on dhivehi if that exists. Also I would also recommend you check out some blogs on dhivehi as I did stumbled across one but however I would have to check if its up, the blog is pretty good as the author delves into how the sentences are structured, some conditional words and stuff like that.
        I agree with your point on the hadith. Idont have that much knowledge on hadith but I’ll make this point: just because narrations or reports are compiled in books later after an event doesn’t necessarily discount the historicity. What matters is whether or not their methodology is sound and they credit their sources. I mean it would be only problematic if the sources are unknown and the author is just borrowing sources indiscriminately from people without checking them or questioning them. I’d imagine the hadith compilers did this altho again I dont have that much knowledge. You can correct me on that one.

        Like

      7. “Woow learning a alot of languages huh? Didn’t realise you were cultured not only in memes but…. Culturally eeeh get it i- nevermind. Unfortunately I can’t as again my tablet is parent controlled and my parents would be sus about it soo sorry man. I’d recommend you try to take some online course on dhivehi if that exists. Also I would also recommend you check out some blogs on dhivehi as I did stumbled across one but however I would have to check if its up, the blog is pretty good as the author delves into how the sentences are structured, some conditional words and stuff like that.”

        Alright thanks m8

        “What matters is whether or not their methodology is sound and they credit their sources. I mean it would be only problematic if the sources are unknown and the author is just borrowing sources indiscriminately from people without checking them or questioning them. I’d imagine the hadith compilers did this altho again I dont have that much knowledge. You can correct me on that one.””

        Well yes everything was verified, if we were talking about Christianity secular historians would gladly take it as it is but…

        Like

  18. Assalamu alaikum,

    Yo guys, I am still struggling to understand the meaning of “child marriage” and whenever I think of “child marriage” I go nuts and I cannot control myself.

    Is it true that “child marriage” literally means that both genders should marry each other so our Nation would increase faster like never before?

    have I understood correctly?

    Jazakalakhair

    Like

  19. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @Alexander
    Depends on what you mean by a child, if ya mean teenagers marrying each other and both are accountable then it’s ok. There’s nothing for ya to be worried about man. I think you are talking about parents arranging marriages for their young children 6 to 10 or something. This is allowed in Islam only under the condition that it serves a clear purpose and its arranged for the child’s interests:
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/178318
    Waalaikum as-salaam warahmatullahi wabarakaathu

    Like

  20. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hero
    Also I’m curious as to the earliest non Muslim sources on Islam. Are there any and if there are, what did the scholars say about them? Are there any conflicting accounts from them? Are they huge or just kinda dumbed down versions and they don’t really did their homework? If there is a chance that those sources are correct and they say something bad aboyt Islam or the prophet peace and blessings upon him, how did he scholars reconcile those reports if they exist in the first place?
    Jazakallahu khair.
    Love ya man

    Like

    1. Hi Mishal,

      “”Are they huge or just kinda dumbed down versions and they don’t really did their homework?”

      “If there is a chance that those sources are correct and they say something bad aboyt ***Islam or the prophet peace and blessings upon him***, how did he scholars reconcile those reports if they exist in the first place?”

      About the Prophet? Meh…not reliable for obvious reasons, for the doctrina Jacobi though it was just a subjective point about how Muhammad PBUH can’t be Prophet as he engaged in wars, nothing specific to bother ourselves with

      But if you’re talking about Islam in as how Islam was spreading in the region then As you can see from the video, all the negative early ones are pro byzantine sources, they tend to be very unreliable in matters of accuracy as back then it was a war of propaganda so exaggerations (or even fabrications) weren’t uncommon, you’ll find the same kind of theme from pro-byzantine sources against the Sassanids vice versa…

      Ergo not worth of any consideration by Muslim Historians unless corroborated by Arab historical sources…why? i’d argue they were more objective in general (maybe not entirely but certainly to a higher degree)compared to the others as afaik some Arab sources admit mishaps that happened in terms of war crimes during the conquests which wasn’t left unpunished by the caliphate, so as a source Arab ones are more reliable

      Like

  21. Caliph ibn mumthaz

    @stew
    Jazakallahu khair
    Hey I have one question that I hope you can clarify
    what is the relationship between the prophet peace and blessings upon him and mariyah may Allah be please with her? Is it purely just sexual ( which im perfectly fine btw this aint a doubt lol)?
    Also is it true that planes can’t fly over mecca because its the gravitional centre of the earth or its due to no fyl zones? Is it just one of those stupid myths?

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Ibn Mumthaz

      Uhhh I think a little more complex than just sexual (but definitely a component)

      Lol Allah hu alim but I’m pretty sure this is not true on “gravitational center” and more to do with restricted airspace.

      Like

  22. caliph ibn mumthaz

    @dude
    Thanks for clarifying that man. Also hwat do you mean by war crimes? I havemt heard of any commited during the conquests. Can you elaborate that for me.

    Like

    1. Early on Arabs did keep note of any mishaps happening, There was the case of Zarrar raping a captive (he repented) (not sure in which battle) but punishment was already issued by the caliphate, it logically follows that if crimes happened like those that pro byzantine sources show then it would at be reflected at least once in Arab sources coz they wouldn’t hide it

      Like

      1. Caliph ibn mumthaz

        @hehehe
        Oh yeah I heard of that story altho I thought he simply just had intercourse with her as a slave and after that he felt guilty so he pressured khalid may Allah be pleased with him to write to umar may Allah be pleased with him. Wait now it kinda didn’t make any sense. Wait did he rape the captive or he had intercourse without the permission of the emir?

        Like

      2. “Oh yeah I heard of that story altho I thought he simply just had intercourse with her as a slave and after that he felt guilty so he pressured khalid may Allah be pleased with him to write to umar may Allah be pleased with him. Wait now it kinda didn’t make any sense. Wait did he rape the captive or he had intercourse without the permission of the emir?”

        Eh? Since when does someone need the permission of the emir to have intercourse with his own slave?

        Or maybe the wording confuses you coz the hadith says “intercourse” instead of “rape”?

        Quick question, “Mr X impregnated an unconscious woman”, now just because the statement doesn’t mention rape anywhere does that mean it wasn’t? Ofc not, we say that’s it’s rape based on the context

        Like

      3. To summarize in case you’re confused,

        1)He raped the slave

        2)Regretted it and felt guilty

        3) Requested to inform Umar for *judgement*, death sentence was issued

        Like

      4. “Requested to inform Umar for *judgement*, death sentence was issued”

        Please note the emphasis(**) from the quote, just *in case* you didn’t know for what exact reason he informed Umar R.A (which *may* have confused you perhaps)

        Like

    2. Caliph ibn mumthaz

      @stew
      I hope you don’t mind me asking but is there any evidence to suggest their relationship is complex and if so can you elaborate on that?

      Like

  23. caliph ibn mumthaz

    @hehehehehheheh
    Seriously i just watched like few religion for breakfast vida and my recommemded is just filled to the brim of videos covering or about religion. Theres this one video that kimda intrigued me, its by this pfanderfilms. I know its run by jay smith and i didnt watch the video but it basically says that mecca wasnt on any trade routes. I think he did it in collaboration with this patricia crone ( dont know who the hell that is) where whe allegedly destroyed the “trade route” theory which…..im just clueless about. Even if mecca wasnt on any trade route…so am i supposed to apostatise now? Again im clueless about the topic

    Like

    1. “Theres this one video that kimda intrigued me, its by this pfanderfilms. I know its run by jay smith and i didnt watch the video but it basically says that mecca wasnt on any trade routes. I think he did it in collaboration with this patricia crone ( dont know who the hell that is) where whe allegedly destroyed the “trade route” theory which…..im just clueless about. Even if mecca wasnt on any trade route…so am i supposed to apostatise now? Again im clueless about the topic”

      It’s related to the petra conspiracy

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/lampofislam.wordpress.com/2019/12/01/a-review-of-dan-gibsons-mecca-vs-petra-theory/amp/

      I’ll watch the video and share my thoughts when I get some free time, I can already guess they will inconsistently dismiss Muslim sources

      Like

      1. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

        @hehehe
        I dont want to seem impatient but when are you commenting on that video bro? Its not a doubt amd you can take as much time as you need simce youre a busy guy. Jazakallahu khair

        Like

  24. mr.heathcliff

    the resurrection accounts make no sense .

    if the jews were really worried about the disciples stealing the body, why did they let go of custody of the body?

    why didn’t they tell the pagan romans that when they(romans) went to guard the tomb, the body had already been moved?

    now tell me, does this make sense

    the jews pay the guards to spread a rumour that the body has been stolen when according to matthew, the disciples reunite with jesus in galilee

    acts says that they start public proclamations one month after

    why are the jews worrying about something that isn’t even proclaimed and how come they have success in the rumour ?

    none of jesus’ so called reunions were public.

    these were all private visitations which no one could verify.

    matthew has to explain why pagans were succeful in spreading a rumour (or jewish rebuttal that disciples stole the body) …he would not need to had jesus been appearing in public.

    Like

      1. mr.heathcliff

        what the hell are the pagans doing spreading the rumour ? how did they even have FORESIGHT ? this looks like slipperly slope

        disciples will steal body…then proclaim ressurection….then….then ….then

        this is slippery slop

        Like

  25. Just noticed that if we apply the same criteria scholars apply to apocryphal writings, significant patristic evidences they use such as Papias could easily be discounted….nothing significant of note, just pointing out an inconsistency in their methodology

    Another something worthy of mention, by their scholarly criteria if we can reject a large portion of papias’ claims despite him saying he learned directly by the companions of the apostles then on which basis should we take later Patristics as authority, Irenaeus admits to referencing papias as well so how much of Ireneaus can we trust if he’s using unreliable sources as per scholarly standards 🤔

    Like

    1. “despite him saying he learned directly by the companions of the apostles”

      Which is something which mainstream scholarship take as a fact, now imagine taking someone as him as unreliable for the most part and then draw a line of comparison with other patristics

      Like

  26. Assalamu alaikum,

    Yo guys, I have started to find out ways how I can live up to age of 1000 years old biologically and I even noted down what I must do so I can live up to age of 1000. And tomorrow, I’m going to start studying Mathematics and Romanian literature, and I really hope I can pass this time the final exam of grade 12 so I can move on to top Universities so I can become great person .

    My dream is actually to be the 2nd Sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdul al Wahhab(may God be pleased with him) but only this time, I want to make verdicts against terrorism and violence, and I’m literally going to seek help from Emir of Kuwait so I can declare Combat as fard al ayn, because I believe it is fard al ayn. Because, I believe this is the only way we can get rid immediately of khawarij such as ISIS.

    And after ISIS is finally dead, I want to start making powerful condemnation against terrorism and violence.

    My questions which I want to ask is as following:

    1. Is it possible for anyone to end forever terrorism?

    2. If I cannot end forever terrorism, how we can powerfully condemn terrorism? In what ways?

    3. Is it possible in Islam for anyone to increase the life span up to age of 1000?

    4. Is it possible to increase the young age in Islam?

    5. Is it ok if I do all of this just so I can give a glorious and beautiful image to Islam?

    Jazakalakhair

    Like

    1. mr.heathcliff

      “Yo guys, I have started to find out ways how I can live up to age of 1000 years old biologically and I even noted down what I must do so I can live up to age of 1000. ”

      bro, how you gonna do that ?

      Like

      1. By simply eating some fruits that will expand your life span and young age, and by doing some exercises which helps me to expand my life span and young age. And I also will supplicate for God To Allow me to live up to age of 1000.

        Like

      2. Living up to 1000 years is not possible by eating fruits and exercising. In fact, it’s not possible by any physical activity or dietary changes. The human lifespan is limited

        You can pray that Allah increases your lifespan, but don’t be surprised if He doesn’t. It’s like asking for the ability to fly. It’s not part of the natural order so chances are He will not let it come true. But Allah knows best.

        Like

  27. Yo guys,

    I’m not sure whether should I cry, lough or feel embarrassed of myself after making this comment? Can someone please watch it fully and tell me what you think of my comments whether they were good or bad?

    Like

  28. Vaqas Rehman

    So I saw an interesting counter argument from a Christian concerning the incarnation. From my understanding we rightfully reject the doctrine due to a number of reasons but in this case it’s due to the idea that God cannot become less than God. While Christians would maintain that God doesn’t become less divine he simply “veils” those attributes or “sets them aside” for a time, we reject that as basically saying the same thing as God limiting himself. The counterpoint the Christian raised is why should Muslims reject God metaphorically veiling his attributes when in the hadith it is stated that God literally has a veil of light that stops his divine glory from destroying creation? The Christian argues isn’t this basically the same thing?

    I wanted to know what you guys thought of it.

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Vaqas Rehman

        @QB

        Thanks for screen shots. And right I agree. Just wanted to hear your guys insight into this argument cause I never heard it before.

        Liked by 2 people

    1. mr.heathcliff

      ““veils” those attributes or “sets them aside” for a time, we reject that as basically saying the same thing as God limiting himself.”

      i don’t understand this. if x = immortal and is experiencing immortality, how is it that the same x “veils” his immortality and experiences human experiences?

      “when in the hadith it is stated that God literally has a veil of light that stops his divine glory from destroying creation? ”

      the veil of light is what exactly? a contingent created thing? what does it mean?
      their god gets “veiled” by contingent created experiences and has feelings he didnt have before.

      quote:
      Before we move on, we need emphasize that the Muslim view is strict in saying that God creates each and every single action of the creation, whether these are devils, angels, or humans. There is not even a slight movement of the smallest subatomic particle which happens without His Will, Power, and Decree. When the reader understands this, they will know that it is impossible that God has needs as portrayed by the Christian, nor can he suffer from disappointment in the way shown by the Christians, since He controls and decides the fate of every single created thing. After all, disappointment and heartbreak are qualities of the creation which occur to us due to our inability to have total control on all the variables of our environment. But with God, the situation is not like this at all, nor can it ever be like this.

      https://muslimanswers.net/2013/05/07/draft-work-commentary-on-the-incarnation-of-the-word/

      do you agree with this?

      Liked by 1 person

    2. @QB, can you please share the arguments you have here in the comments or send it to me through email?

      @Vaqas, Thought about your question briefly, so here’s my thoughts

      1.”Veiling” doesn’t make Allah lose any of his attributes, Allah retains everything

      2. Speaking about losing attributes, let’s take one of them which is omniscience

      3. In order to be omniscient we have to be sentient/self aware

      4. When Jesus became human did we have a self aware divine Jesus at the same time (ofc with all godly attributes)?

      5. No, he “emptied” himself (phil 2:6) and became human, “emptied” here is interpreted as setting aside as you mentioned

      6. Meaning his self awareness shifted to his humanity

      7. If all the divine attributes were still present somehow in some “form” was omniscience part of it?

      8. No it wasn’t coz as I mentioned you need to be self aware to be omniscient and only Jesus’s human nature had this attribute at the time

      9. If there was no divine self awareness which entails an absence of omniscience then obviously they’re limiting God which is impossible in principle

      10. That’s one attribute as example

      11. Now see how it doesn’t compare to the veiling argument.

      Liked by 2 people

    3. Argh misclicked

      @QB, can you please share the arguments you have here in the comments or send it to me through email?

      @Vaqas, Thought about your question briefly, so here’s my thoughts

      1.”Veiling” doesn’t make Allah lose any of his attributes, Allah retains everything

      2. Speaking about losing attributes, let’s take one of them which is omniscience

      3. In order to be omniscient we have to be sentient/self aware

      4. When Jesus became human did we have a self aware divine Jesus at the same time (ofc with all godly attributes)?

      5. No, he “emptied” himself (phil 2:6) and became human, “emptied” here is interpreted as setting aside as you mentioned

      6. Meaning his self awareness shifted to his humanity

      7. If all the divine attributes were still present somehow in some “form” was omniscience part of it?

      8. No it wasn’t coz as I mentioned you need to be self aware to be omniscient and only Jesus’s human nature had this attribute at the time

      9. If there was no divine self awareness which entails an absence of omniscience then obviously they’re limiting God which is impossible in principle

      10. That’s one attribute as example

      11. Now see how it doesn’t compare to the veiling argument.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. mr.heathcliff

        “2. Speaking about losing attributes, let’s take one of them which is omniscience”

        yaar, yeh kuminah christianity kereh heh kee insaan insaan heh aur bandar heh same time. bandar bachaa bana ra heh zoo keh andar aur insaan plane keh andar. yeh kiya baqwaas heh yaar?

        Like

  29. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

    @prince
    Hey dude, is there any authentic ahadith that point to the positive relationship between the prophet peace and blessings upon him and safiyyah may Allah be pleased with her. The reason is because there is so many kaffaar propaganda about the two and i want see the less ” worship our man god please” version of events.
    Jazakallahu khair.
    Also hiiiiii wilhelm,prince,douchebag,hehehe,wolf,etc.

    Like

    1. Any comments about my response on the Zarrar issue? I’d like to know from which exact angle you’re confused. As a side note whenever I respond then please inform me if it cleared your doubt and if not i’d like to know the specifics so I can elaborate further

      As for your question, I already told you to ask someone else coz I haven’t read much about their personal relationship plus it’s not a topic I care about, frankly my approach to Islam is simple, as long as something falls within our moral spectrum I’m ok with it that’s why I don’t care about what the kuffar comments on issues of this kind like marriage or personal relationships

      Like

  30. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

    @prince
    I was confused cuz when i read it the first time, i thought the intercourse was consensual, thats all. Sorry if i didnt make myself clear and actually put into text of what i was confused by. Btw my doubt is cleared lol.
    “As for your question, I already told you to ask someone else coz I haven’t read much about their personal relationship ”
    Yeah youre right. I should have told stew instead, sorry its just…idk im lazy and you were active so lol.
    Also this isnt a theological question btw but aahh how do you think a intergalactic caliphate would look like in your personal views and tastes?

    Like

  31. mr.heathcliff

    “The counterpoint the Christian raised is why should Muslims reject God metaphorically veiling his attributes when in the hadith it is stated that God literally has a veil of light that stops his divine glory from destroying creation?”

    Questions

    1. i dont think the hadeeth is saying anything contingent puts its affect in ALLAH .in christianity x EXPERIENCES being taken over by finite experiences

    2. if ALLAH “literally veil” how does any of this mean he experiences being a man?

    3. on day of judgement Allah pwr will be on display, where is the veiling?

    4. in christian god gains and loses EXPERIENCES like we mortals do

    Liked by 1 person

  32. caliph ibn mumthaz

    @prince
    “The father of Aisha (born in 613/614 C.E.) betrothed her to the Islamic prophet Muhammad (born 570 CE – died 8 June 632 CE) in 623 C.E. and she was allegedly 18 years old when he died.[3][4] The Islamic prophet Muhammad married Aisha in 624 C.E., after Hegira to Medina and the Battle of Badr.[5] Aisha’s age at marriage has been a source of controversy and debate, and some historians, scholars, and writers have revisited the previously-accepted timeline of her life.[6] Some writers have calculated Aisha’s age based on details found in some biographies, eschewing the traditionally-accepted ahadith. One hadith recorded in the works of some medieval scholars, including al-Dhahabi,[7] states that Aisha’s older sister Asma was ten years older than her. This has been combined with information about Asma’s age at the time of her death along with descriptions of Aisha to suggest that Aisha was most likely as old as 17 to 19 years old at the time of her marriage.[8]”
    I found this on wikipedia btw. Already i can see some issues with the whole suggestion she is way older than 6 whe she is married.
    1. There are several other narrations ive read that clearly state she is very young when she is married.
    2. If there is evidence to the contrary, there would have not been consensus by the scholars and there wouldve been some difference of opinion which there isnt one afaik.
    Even IF she is 17 or 19, so? What is there to be achieved here? I mean i guess its because of consent but if thats an issue then there would have been reports of Aisha RA taking issue with the marriage and Abu bakr RA trying to convince her to remain married. But yet again no evidence and instead ovrwhelming amount of reports pointing to her being happy in the marriage. What are ypur thoughts on the view?

    Like

  33. Mikail of the revived islamic caliphate

    @stew
    Hey dude i have a question. If a testimony of a man is equal to 2 women then how can we ensure justice is made since a single famle witness is considered to be invalid? Also isnt it true that women are much more better at accessing memoriez and being able to date them better so how come their testimony is invalid?

    Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Mikail

      1. This subject has differences of opinion and is not black and white

      2. It’s basically agreed a two woman’s testimony doesn’t apply in a variety of cases like criminal law (like a robbery), family (like if she breastfed or religious (hence why we have female hadith narrators).

      3. The opinion I take (and this has precedence in earlier scholarship btw) is this was something particularly for the Ansari women who didn’t do a lot of business deals (as this is the context of the ayah)

      4. I am not aware of any study that favors either gender in regards to memory etc.

      Liked by 1 person

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