Missionary Wall of Shame

Over the course of the time he had been on this blog, a Christian fanatic named Cerbie/Paulus had provided countless hours of entertainment with his inept and incompetent polemics against Islam, as well as his failures to answer the tough questions about his religion.  For those of us who have come to know him, it has become evident that he has a particular strategy (for a troll) when dealing with questions about his religion.  He will avoid discussing the topic, while desperately trying to deflect to an unrelated issue.  And despite repeated requests for clarification, Cerbie will avoid answering the question.  As a result, this page has been created to keep track of the unanswered questions that Cerbie the coward has refused to answer.  As the days roll by, it is anticipated that the list will get bigger.  If anyone can think of any issues not included in the list (but should), please notify us in the comments section.  The asterisks contain the links to each topic.  In the subsections, I have added unanswered questions from some of the other Christian apologists known to visit the blog: Joel/Coco and a relative newcomer, Robert/Robbie.

            But before we delve into these unanswered questions, there is one question that needs to be answered above all…Is Cerbie married?  Can any woman stand his presence for more than 5 minutes?  Okay, okay, that was mean, but he had it coming…Anyway, here is the actual list:

  1. Numbers 31:18 – The Hebrew word “taph” means “girls” not “women”. *|*|*|*|* |*
  2. What is the age of “post-pubescence” according to the Bible? *|*
  3. Do babies go to hell? *|*  UPDATE (08/19/2018): Cerbie has finally answered this question with three words: “I don’t know”.
  4. Can an abused Christian woman get a divorce from her husband or even separate from him? *|*
  5. How will justice be served in the afterlife between two Christians, where one wronged the other in the earthly life? *
  6. Is the book of Enoch false or not? *
  7. What is the difference between Quranic abrogation and the abrogation in Numbers and Jesus’s laws on divorce? *
  8. Can you explain the passages John 17:1-3 or John 7:16-17 in light of trinitarian teachings? *
  9. What happened to people outside of Israel before the Covenant? *
  10. Are there any 1st-century CE manuscripts of the New Testament? *

Subsections:

Allan Ruhl’s Wall of Shame –

  1. What was Matthew’s “source” for the “Nazarene” prophecy (Matthew 2:23)?  *|*
  2. Why aren’t there any first-century manuscripts (or even fragments) of the New Testament? *
  3. The “missing books” in the Bible (e.g. the prophecies of Iddo) were considered “scripture”, so why have they been lost? *

dhc21’s Wall of Shame –

  1. The age of the Earth is 6,000 years, according to the Bible. *
  2. The Biblical Jesus was a sinner who lied and damaged other people’s property. *

Erasmus/Ignoramus’ Wall of Shame – 

  1. When is the genocide of a people and killing women and children morally justifiable? *

Joel/Coco’s Wall of Shame –

  1. What is the textual evidence from the Bible that God transcended time and space and saved all nations all across the world at all times? *
  2. What scriptural evidence is there that babies that die in infancy will not be babies in the afterlife when they are thrown into hell? *

Ken Temple’s (aka Kennywise the Clown) Wall of Shame –

  1. How is the Christian worship of a man (Jesus) any different from the Hindu worship of Krishna? Are they not both different forms of paganism? *
  2. Are John 7:53-8:11 and Mark 16:9-20 the “inspired” Word of God? *

Orangehunter’s Wall of Shame –

  1. The Bible’s embarrassing error about rabbits “chewing the cud”. *|*

Robert/Robbie’s Wall of Shame –

  1. Jesus’ false promise to the thief that he would be in Paradise with Jesus. * 

Sam Shamoun’s Wall of Shame –

Comment: After taking several beatings at my hand and the failure of his pathetic articles, Shamoun became incensed and “challenged” me to a verbal debate. He now claims that he doesn’t have the time to write articles responding to me. How convenient! Meanwhile, he had no trouble writing 2 responses to the Al-Isra/Masjid Al-Aqsa series, and routinely publishes new pieces of garbage on his blog! Hmm, me thinks the Scam is making excuses because he does not excel in writing intellectual articles, but rather in verbal jousts where his inner loudmouth can come out. 

  1. The Bible’s embarrasssing error about rabbits “chewing the cud” and Shamoun’s bumbling/hilarious attempts to respond. *|*
  2. The Biblical flat Earth in Matthew 4:8 . *
  3. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa is not just the site of the temple, but the entire Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary, contrary to Shamoun’s pseudo-scholarly claims. *|*|*|*|*|*

Washer’s (aka Dishwasher) Wall of Shame – 

Comment: “Washer” made a brief appearance on Paul Williams’ blog after Scam Shamoun went “public” with second debate challenge to me, when he urged me to accept Shamoun’s challenge. After a hilarious exchange, Washer disappeared.

  1. Are there any agreed-upon forgeries in the Bible? *
  2. Do rabbits chew the cud, as the Bible claims? *

Zozeph Francisco/Zozo’s Wall of Shame –

  1. Numbers 31:18 – Were the little girls taken as sex slaves? *

Comment: Unlike Cerbie/Paulus and others, Zozo did not argue against the meaning of the word “taph”. He seems to accept that the spared Midianites were only little virgin girls. But he did claim that they were taken as “servants” and not as “sex slaves”. On this point, he was thoroughly refuted and even seemed to implicityl admit the evil of this passage. See here for one of his more vile comments, in which he seems to admit that the Bible condoned killing and raping: https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/06/11/answering-a-christians-challenge-on-quran-manuscripts/#comment-6820

2. Is the god of the Bible evil for commanding the murders of the innocent (i.e., babies)?

3. Is the “Son” all-knowing or not in light of Mark 13:32?

4. Can faithful Christians fulfill the promise of their savior to move mountains and pick up venomous snakes without being harmed? If not, why not?

86 thoughts on “Missionary Wall of Shame”

  2. Paulus

    Hello imam Britney al-lat

    Nice post. I can see you’re clearly upset so fell the need to make fabricated posts. However, can you please add the following.

    When a 14 year old murders another person, are they then a sinner, or still innocent because they are below the age of accountability?

    How is Allah’s oneness different to the oneness of a goat?

    Like

    Reply

    1. Hi Cerbie, servant of the sky lord

      I can see you are clearly upset at the evil of your religion, which is why you have felt the need to dance and stall. However, the babies issue is one of many which expose the evil of your religion. We will be adding more in the next few days. I know it’s like opening old wounds, but sometimes, you need a little pain and suffering to ensure salvation. 😉

      Like

      Reply
    2. Paulus

      Thank you imam Britney al-lat

      Now everybody gets to see the stark irony and hypocrisy of you pretending that critics of Islam won’t answer questions, when in fact you avoid them more than anyone.

      Like

      Reply

      1. Thank you servant of El

        Now everybody gets to see the stark irony and hypocrisy of someone who actually doesn’t answer questions, and then pretends that he does and then accuses others of not answering questions (even though those questions are irrelevant and a mere attempt to deflect). So Cerbie, will you be answering these unanswered questions any time soon?

        I can see you are very upset at being put on the spot, but like I said, sometimes pain and suffering are needed to achieve salvation.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. edward

        testicle/yah worshipper, u sick minded piece of scum, you deserve to go to hell and children deserve to go to heaven . if you continue to stick to your beliefs about kiddies,u self righteous bastatd, u r going to end up in hell

        Like

  3. stewjo004

    @ Qb
    In Paulus’ defense, he has answered 3 as “Idon’t know” so we can remove that one. However, we can add these ones:

    Is the book of Enoch false or not?
    https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/04/21/missing-books-in-the-bible/

    What is the difference between Quranic abrogation and the abrogation in Numbers and Jesus’s laws on divorce?
    https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/the-concept-of-abrogation-in-scripture/

    Can you explain the passages John 17:1-3 or John 7:16-17 in light of trinitarian teachings?
    https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/jesus-potential/

    What happened to people before the Covenant outside of Israel?
    https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/jesus-potential/

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply

      1. can there be a wall of shame for the wind god yahway? Its funny crosstians consider this name “holy” even to pronounce ,yet have no problem having this wind god come out from private part and get nursed. the wall of shame could be about how mesopotamian yahway is.

        1.1.regreting his ACTS when he is supposed to be maximally perfect IN EVERYTHING

        2. getting owned by creation

        3.sniffing smoke to aroma his heavenly nostrils

        4. Speaking so much (let there be…) that he has to take a “breather”

        Liked by 1 person

  6. 12 “You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there,
    13 and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement.
    14 “Since the LORD your God walks in the midst of your camp to deliver you and to defeat your enemies before you, therefore your camp must be holy; and He must not see anything indecent among you or He will turn away from you. (Deut. 23:12-14 NAU)

    i find this verse interesting because some christians at dcci ministries said that not only their god takes a dump but it is alright to worship god in toilet.

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  10. trinitarian polytheists want to identify everything belonging to god as a conscious being, they even read their hinduism into quran and try to make it a being

    no, quran is not a being like pagan trinitarian persons. God is not a lego.

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/196054/will-the-quran-testify-on-the-day-of-resurrection-against-those-who-went-against-it-as-it-will-testify-for-its-companions-those-who-read-it-and-acted-upon-it-and-intercede-for-them?fbclid=IwAR0ZCA1S_5Cn5uHhlsM0VDu0DfRqluPdRLKHXnR-6PCbtOEpA6hWTbmlE-U

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  11. I added a new section to the wall. This one is in honor of Sam Shamoun and his recent embarrassment on BloggingTheology regarding rabbits “chewing the cud”. He has yet to make a formal response and engage with the issues I raised. Instead, he has ranted and raved like he usually does and even tried to change the subject to how the Quran (allegedly) endorses the Bible. The guy obviously felt emasculated and had to defend his wounded pride.

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
  12. stewjo004

    (Closes door to the battle scene outside) Whew!

    Salamulakum wa rahma tu lahi w barakatu you’ve been busy for the last couple of days. I would like to nominate some more questions for the wall this time for Erasmus. After refuting each of his points concerning Banu Qurayza I then asked the same questions to him about his book (since he believes this is better diplomatic procedure). While he was unable to answer

    “When is the genocide of a people and killing surrendering women and children morally justifiable?”

    https://bloggingtheology2.com/2018/12/30/an-islamophobe-sends-an-email/

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
    3. mr.heathcliff

      yo stew, that blog is infected with virus, please cnp your responses here , thanks

      “2After refuting each of his points concerning Banu Qurayza I then asked the same questions to him about his book (“

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply

  13. Pingback: Ken Temple Cannot Explain the Difference Between Christian and Hindu Man-Worship – The Quran and Bible Blog

    1. stewjo004

      I want everybody to take the time to congradulate Zoze it takes a special amount of retardation to end up here. So without further ado:

      Also here is his acceptance speech it’s along the lines of:

      “I’d like to thank Christian Prince, Shamoun and the Devil I just couldn’t have made it here without you guys. Wow, this is really exciting to know that my disbelief has been posted so that the dozens of people who visit this site will be able to testify to my kufr on the Day of Judgement after Jesus(as) abandons me in front of the creation and I have to go before Allah alone.”

      Liked by 2 people

      Reply
  15. mr.heathcliff

    if any of these scum bags are still around, please give barry jones a ring:

    Hello,
    With reference to your “Numbers 31:13-24 Exegetical Paper”,
    What would be unreasonable in interpreting Numbers 31:18 as approval of sex within adult-child marriages? It’s therefore not about “adultery” or pre-marital “fornication”, so I’m not seeing the problem.
    I see nothing in the bible indicating the minimum age the girl must reach before she can be married, not all sexual relations require penetrative intercourse, the atrocities of the ancient Israelites prove they were nothing close to the modern democratic American, God wanted women to experience vaginal pain on first intercourse anyway, and as I’m sure you know, the Babylonian Talmud, which is reasonably presumed to reveal ancient Jewish traditions, several times indicates approval of sexual intercourse between a man and a prepubescent girl.
    In your paper you claim Deut. 21:10-14 was intended to protect female war captives from rape, but on the contrary, this authorization for a man to marry such a woman gives not the slightest indication that the woman’s consent was needed, the Hebrew “anah” in v. 14 always means rape in other bible verses describing men interacting with woman, and the decidedly pro-Christian Good News Translation renders v. 14 as “you forced her to have intercourse with you…” which would hardly be the case if those Christian translators felt there was any reasonable way to spin the literary evidence to get rid of the rape-implication.
    Maybe the question should be whether the non-Christian can be “reasonable” to reject the democratic conservative Christiain interpretation of Numbers 31:18 and continue viewing it as approval of sex within adult-child marriages?
    I’ve done a massive amount of research on those issues, and I’d like to see how a Christian who has studied them answers my concerns.
    Thank you for your time,
    Barry (barryjoneswhat@gmail.com)
    I hope to recieve Mr. Jarden’s reply, as nearly no Christians appear willing to take up this challenge. Of course, there’s always the hyena “apologist” who is frightened of real-time debate, and keeps his tithing customers happy by doing the occasional cartoon video about some argument I present here, but I’m requesting seriously interactive scholarship on the level of Outback Steakhouse. Not the hide-and-seek bullshit one gets at Chuck E Cheese. The last time I raised the pedophilia-issue in a Christian-chat room, noody could refute me and several admitted they couldn’t say for sure whether God condemns sex within adult-child marriages. I think it had something to do with my combining Romans 13 with a 19th century Delaware law which set the age of sexual consent at 7.

    Liked by 3 people

    Reply

      3. Yes, but Ehrman didn’t comment much. I would be interested to know what he thinks about Luke 2 saying that both Mary and Joseph took the 12 yr old Jesus to Jerusalem from Nazareth and yet elsewhere, Jesus has younger brothers and sisters. How could they have left their children to go on such a long journey?

        Like

      4. mr.heathcliff

        Wilusa November 12, 2017
        Is it true, as I’ve heard, that males in Palestine at that time also married very young? Specifically, that Joseph would probably have been older than Mary, but still in his teens?

        Bart November 13, 2017
        My impression is that a lot of men were older. I guess especially the ones whose first wives died in childbirth (of which there were a lot). But I have to admit, I’m not up on the social history of the question.

        ///

        talmoore November 12, 2017
        This is a common misconception. There, indeed, were cases where very young females — as young as nine in the case of Muhammad — were married to adult men, even much older men. But when you dive into the actual historical, archaeological, sociological and anthropological evidence, you’ll find a couple very, very consistant (and telling) factors.

        1) Disparity in age between groom and bride is highly correlated with socio-economic status. That is, the wealthier, more powerful, more prestigious they and their family are, the more likely the bride is to be much younger than the groom (and vice versa, cf. Henry XIII and Catherine of Aragon). And, inversely, the poorer, more powerless, more disenfranchised they and their family are, the more likely it is for a woman to marry older (that is, relatively older, such as 19 or 20) to a man closer to her age. So while you’ll often see the 13 year old daughter of a viscount being married off to the 29 year old son of an earl, it was exceptionally rare for the 13 year daughter of a cobbler to marry the 29 year old son of a butcher. In the case of the cobbler’s daughter and the butcher’s son, you’re usually going to see a much more typical age difference of, say, 19 and 24, respectively.

        2) As a consequence of point #1 (or possibly a cause), marriages between the powerful tend to be arranged by the respective family for some socio-politico-economic benefit. In that case, if the bride is only 13 while the groom is 29, well, so be it. They’re doing this for family, not for themselves. Meanwhile, since the cobbler’s daughter and the butcher’s son are already poor and powerless, the union doesn’t bestow any benefits on either of them, so it’s not imperative to force a marriage between the butcher’s 24 year old son and, say, the baker’s 14 year old daughter. Neither family is establishing any net positives from the union of children of such disparate ages.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. I remember asking this question to you guys, did Jesus turn into a sinner of the worst kind on the cross? If yes then why isn’t he burning eternally in hell if god’s justice is supposed to be absolute? How come the mere crucifixion of a sinful man enough to cleanse the trillions of sins which individually requires eternal residence in hell because their god has an old age allergy to sin? Or maybe all this bullshit from christians about god’s justice can go to the bin because the only way the ridiculous notion of substitutionary atonement would work is by letting someone else suffering eternally in hell on behalf of everyone so what happened to god’s justice? A crucifixion obviously isn’t enough for sins which deserve eternal punishment so did he forgive the sins? If yes then what problem do they have with God forgiving sins in Islam? If god didn’t forgive them then it brings us back to the question that why isn’t jesus in hell right now

    It seems this guy realized the conundrum and now resorting to assumptions

    https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/were-the-sins-of-the-world-placed-on-jesus-or-in-him-at-death/

    Is that a conumdrum that that christians can’t deal with? It seems to be for now

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
    1. mr.heathcliff

      “I remember asking this question to you guys, did Jesus turn into a sinner of the worst kind on the cross? If yes then why isn’t he burning eternally in hell if god’s justice is supposed to be absolute”

      they usually say some bullshit that yhwh needed a “innocent” human flesh so that he could pour into it sins from all years, but then what is going on ? i am sure i am not straw manning here. if filthy (filth = any sins) is being poured into “innocent flesh,” yhwh is playing a cheating game by protecting the flesh from mixing with filth. so why not just PUNISH the filth by saying ” I yhwh forgive” and that saying “i forgive” automatically kills/destroys/finnishes the sin?

      punishing “innocent meat” becomes redundant, unless as you say, yhwh REALLY was a dirty homosexual, pedophile, adulterer, fire worshipper….on the cross.

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply
    2. mr.heathcliff

      the three triplets created a loophole and reset button for jesus’ human created flesh.

      the fully human jesus could not have done an altriustic act either

      it was not

      “i’ll die by crucifixion and then an eternity burning in hell for your sins”

      it was

      “i’ll die by crucifixion and then reward myself by living in heaven”

      in other words self centered.

      Liked by 2 people

      Reply
    1. alexanderabood

      Assalamu alaikum,

      Need help. Once I entered into the Arabian Prophet channel, and I said “listen up stupid Christians” and Cp, mocked me. Of course, that fool does not know why I did say that. I was harrased by Christians on his channel.

      What would you do if you’re critiqued like this? How would you deal with criticism? Since then I’m very pissed off at Christian Prince.

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      Reply

      1. @Alexander

        ●You remind me a lot of my younger self (not that im old, im still in my early 20s)

        ●You’re young, CP is an old hag….don’t mind him

        ●CP gets mocked and criticized all the time, he doesn’t care

        ●Hijab gets mocked too, he doesn’t care

        ●Other online figures faces criticism all the time….they just move on

        ●You’re a Lion surrounded by a horde of jackals always remember that, responding to mockery isn’t worth your time

        ●Chill…relax…focus on intellectually humiliating them, anger is a big handicap when it comes to debating people, people take your anger as a victory for them, on the other hand if you debunk them and maintain a sarcastic attitude it will make them burn…i’m a person with huge ego and anger issues, trust me on this

        ●Always adopt a “convince me” stance

        Liked by 2 people

      2. alexanderabood

        Thanx for response. I asked this, because I’m not used with criticism.

        Also, do you know about this video I’m talkin’ about?

        Like

      3. Brother, I accepted your invite for your blog but just to let you know, I am very busy with other things and am not sure how much I can really do.

        Also, I would advise you to not fall for the fake challenges of people like Robert Spencer. He has no intention of deleting his website. It would be naive of you to think that he will give this up. He is making alot of money. Don’t waste your time.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. alexanderabood

        I understand this. But, I just want him to delete his website, because I find it very deceptive, manipulative and misleading, and I get very angry if I read such websites. Jihad Watch is fake Islamic website. I thought that I can make him delete his website with intelligence, sound arguments and wisedom that will psychologically trigger him. Because, I want to make him realize that he is a blatant liar, so he can feel ashamed for making anti-islamic articles and for making books about Islam ignorantly. Even Karen Armtrong have criticized Robert Spencer for making an anti-islamic book and she is a Catholic Christian.

        Like

      8. alexanderabood

        I can’t believe that I see Sheytan already working on how he can mislead us. This is one of the plots of Sheytan against us.

        Like

      10. That’s the right approach to Christian princess. Unless you like to hear a donkey bray, there’s no benefit in watching his videos. Of course, there were numerous benefits when Farid began watching and shredding the princess.

        Liked by 1 person

      11. alexanderabood

        Assalamu alaikum,

        Akhi, I need your help on something. If I give you the link where Ali Sina sent me on email where I had talk with him the book he made, to post it on your website the sections from his book and then criticize his book? Can you please do this as my favor? I’ll be extremely happy and grateful if you do this to me, because you are mashallah stronger than me, and I’m weak Muslim. And you are more confident than me.

        Like

  18. stewjo004

    @alexander

    Trust me after you hear all the corny jokes you’ll learn to deaden to them. The best counters I see is stick with the facts and being witty. Most humans have no confidence so once they see they’re not affecting you and you keep berating them they usually stop.

    Also, do you notice the theme of “I’ll delete my website if…” insert whatever? As noted by QB this is not genuine. This crap is just to convince scared westerners “they must be speaking the truth then…”. Remember their target audience is:

    1. White Supremacist
    2. people who don’t know even the basics to Islam

    Don’t stress out over what they say.

    PS

    I’d advise you not to go to their territory as they will just be in a circle jerk of idiocy and shirk.

    Liked by 2 people

    Reply
    1. alexanderabood

      This life is so unjust and unfairly. I don’t like to live anymore, mainly because it is unfair. I wished Islam to be treated with respect and equally just like every other religion is treated, but I don’t get it. Why all of these things? Because, of ISIS, Al Qaida etc… I bet that if terrorism never existee, today Islam would not be critiqued by anyone, and people would not have any reason for disrespecting Islam. The problem is that I’m not used with criticismm and I’m not even opened to criticism. Maybe Christians are opened to criticism, and they don’t mind their faith to be critiqued, but as for my faith, I do get bothered, because it causes doubts. This is why I don’t like criticism.

      Like

      Reply
      1. stewjo004

        @Alexander

        I think you’re looking about this the wrong way. Even if ISIS, Al Qaeda etc didn’t exist they would still criticize Islam. They did it during the Prophet’s(saw) lifetime and they did it during the Middle Ages this is just the latest form of their kufr. Remember Allah is testing and that He has promised if we hold firm in the end we will win whether in this life or the Next.

        Like

  19. I have some thoughts to share on this section before going to bed due to the amphigoric analogies I’ve been reading on Trinitarian apologetics websites today.

    So God is infinite, logically it implies there’s nothing physical or immaterial (spiritual, intangible reality, concepts, ideas, laws etc) can exist independently of him.

    Me and Stew/Drake are physical bodies, our existence aren’t independent, we both depend on God to exist

    Me and Stew/Drake are distinct, the *distinction* is a reality, the existence of this reality depends on God because He was the one who created the distinction

    Our minds thinks of new ideas and thoughts all the time, those thoughts and ideas doesn’t have an independent existence due to the fact that it was God who gave us the faculty of thinking in the first place.

    This brings us to the Trinity

    The Father=Fully God
    The Son=Fully God
    The H.S=Fully God

    To be Fully God obviously it implies that we must have all the characteristics of Godhood. One basic characteristic as I mentioned before is to be *infinite* and this is where the problem pops up with the Trinity

    So the Son=Fully God=Infinite
    Father=Fully God=Infinite

    H.S=Fully God=Infinite

    If the Father is infinite then that must imply there should be no independent existence “outside” of him (God is the uncaused cause) otherwise that wouldn’t really be infinity as an independent
    existence would imply some space.

    So if the Son who is god is distinct from the Father and has eternally been a distinct person with no start, then obviously it implies that the source of the *distinction* (in terms of being, existence, identity etc) wasn’t the Father vice versa as it had an independent existence, this contradicts the whole idea of infinity ergo the Father isn’t really infinite as there are eternal+independent distinct existences outside of Him in the form of distinct persons i.e the Son and the H.S ergo He doesn’t really encompass everything (this implies a space) which throws to the bin the basic characteristic of what makes someone Fully God i.e being infinite

    Liked by 1 person

    Reply
    3. mr.heathcliff

      “So if the Son who is god is distinct from the Father and has eternally been a distinct person with no start, then obviously it implies that the source of the *distinction* (in terms of being, existence, identity etc) wasn’t the Father vice versa as it had an independent existence, this contradicts the whole idea of infinity ergo the Father isn’t really infinite as there are eternal+independent distinct existences outside of Him in the form of distinct persons i.e”

      if that is the case then each would have independant will and potentional exists for the son to will to beat the father in a chess match

      Liked by 1 person

      Reply
      1. mr.heathcliff

        “So if the Son who is god is distinct from the Father and has eternally been a distinct person with no start, then obviously it implies that the source of the *distinction* (in terms of being, existence, identity etc) wasn’t the Father vice versa as it had an independent existence, this contradicts the whole idea of infinity ergo the Father isn’t really infinite as there are eternal+independent distinct existences outside of Him in the form of distinct persons i.e”

        the father cannot be “the ONLY true god” in john, john deceived his readers

        Liked by 1 person

  20. mr.heathcliff

    question:

    a square neccessarily exists as something with four sides

    if u take away the squareness of a square, you no longer have a square

    Allah exists as the all knowing one…this is the way Allah exists

    Allah exists as the all hearing one, this is the way Allah exists

    it is not all seeing that sees, but Allah who sees

    if this is the case, why do some people split GOd into essence and attributes when this does not seem to be quranic language?

    Like

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  24. John

    Sorry for being too disrespectful.. I had some questions about Islam can I please ask them here? I promise to be respectful. Again..Sorry for being too disrespectful.. I got a little mistaken, I had been learning about Islam and I have a lot of respect for it. Apologies.

    Like

    Reply

    1. Well, how many maps are there from the 7th century? The record being sparse doesn’t mean the city didn’t exist. There is tons of evidence from the Quran and ahadith that it definitely existed.

      We also have an inscription from the late 7th century mentioning the Masjid al-Haram, which is in Mecca: https://www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1

      Anyway, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There are better reasons to accept that Mecca existed than to believe that it was invented in the 8th century during a massive conspiracy that no one seemed to notice.

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  26. John

    Sorry for the late response, “ absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” I agree but the problem I have is that Mecca in Islam is said to be before Jesus but we have historians who had drawn out entire Arabia but they didn’t include Mecca even though in Islam it is said that Mecca was a popular place for trade.

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    2. mr.heathcliff

      “Mecca even though in Islam it is said that Mecca was a popular place for trade”

      when it is the season for pilgrims to visit mecca thats going to bring trade. islam didnt say that it was “popular place for trade.”

      pilgrims going to visit vs popular place for trade = two different things.

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      1. stewjo004

        @ Mr.Heathcliff

        Good point and thank you for reminding me. I’ve never heard “being popular for trade” before. They literally had a grand total of TWO manir caravan trips a year and that sustained the majority of the economy (you can see mention if this in Surah Quraish). When the Prophet(saw) went to war with them he cut off one if them with the caravan raids and effectively crippled their economy. So as I said why would the Romans care abiut a backwater town with a population of at best 3000 people?

        I would also like to see these pre Islamic map drawings of Arabia mentioning all these cities as I tried searching for them but couldn’t find anything

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  27. John

    Sorry for the late response, “ absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” I agree but the problem I have is that Mecca in Islam is said to be before Jesus but we have historians who had drawn out entire Arabia but they didn’t include Mecca even though in Islam it is said that Mecca was a popular place for trade

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    1. stewjo004

      @ John

      2 things

      1. The world was not connected like today and most things are mentioned through word of mouth. You also see the Greeks mentioning monsters running around India and Ethiopia so using them as a source for a backwater town hundreds of miles away is already iffy

      2. More importantly…so what? What is the purpose of this question and what does it have to do with your understanding of who God is and what is your relationship with Him?

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  29. John

    @stewjo004

    I’ll list all the points here, I might not respond back till a few days.

    So you said “The world was not connected like today and most things are mentioned through word of mouth. You also see the Greeks mentioning monsters running around India and Ethiopia so using them as a source for a backwater town hundreds of miles away is already iffy”.

    While I do agree with you If Mecca was a place that was build before Jesus shouldn’t it be mentioned somewhere?

    You also said “More importantly…so what? What is the purpose of this question and what does it have to do with your understanding of who God is and what is your relationship with Him?”

    The purpose of this question is to check if the claims of Islam are true.

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    1. Why do you assume that it has to be mentioned somewhere? What if it was and the sources have simply been lost or just haven’t been discovered yet?

      This is not how historians determine what is historically true and what is not. It is much more reasonable to believe Mecca existed and there is just a very poor written record for it, rather than to believe there was a conspiracy and it was invented in the 8th century and no one noticed.

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    2. @QB

      Quite noteworthy that advocates of the “minimal facts” methodology within the realms of theology and historical inquiry seek a foundation of objectivity and concreteness to substantiate the existence of something.

      Thinking about it I can use the same approach to prove the antithetic.

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  30. onlinequranacademy78

    I’m truly impressed by the depth and thoughtfulness of the “The Quran and Bible Blog” article. The author’s ability to navigate the complexities and nuances of both the Quran and the Bible is commendable, offering readers a rich tapestry of comparative insights.

    For those eager to deepen their understanding of sacred texts, I highly recommend exploring resources like the Qaf Quran Academy (https://www.qafquranacademy.com). It’s a valuable platform that offers comprehensive Quranic education and fosters a deeper appreciation for religious diversity.

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