Christians, forgiveness can be achieved without a blood sacrifice

21 thoughts on “Christians, forgiveness can be achieved without a blood sacrifice

  1. Context. When this is said, there are continual sacrifices going on at the Tabernacle. Since there are sacrifices going on, the children of Israel just have to be humble, pray, seek, and turn and then the blood sacrifices are applied. Simple enough.

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    1. mr.heathcliff

      where does it say “continual sacrifices going on at the tabernacle” ?
      if they “pray, seek, and turn,” what is the reason behind approaching an animal and cutting off its neck ? does the blood reach yhwh and cool him off? does yhwh smell the blood? does yhwh eat the blood?

      Liked by 1 person

    2. mr.heathcliff

      what about the situation when the jew is in exile? he has no animal neck to sever. so what does he do? the only option left is to sincerely repent for restorative justice to take place.

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      1. Exactly. I don’t understand the obsession Christians have with blood. Is God unable to forgive without blood being spilled? He even said “I desire mercy, not sacrifice.”

        As for so-called “context”, Christians use it when it suits their purpose (but they still cherry pick) but when it doesn’t, they throw it away. Case in point: the so-called “prophecies” in the Tanakh about Jesus are taken out of context. When read in context, it’s clear they are not referring to Jesus.

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    3. Vaqas Rehman

      @Vakebiblia

      Hi vake how do you respond to the fact that jews do not believe or accept this view on sin and repentance? Rabbi tovia singer has made plenty of videos on the subject for example.

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      1. Good question and yes, I’ve watched hours of Tovia Singer videos.

        The answer is just that he has to believe it. If he did accept the truth of the Old Testament about he’d have to change religions and occupations. So, he takes verses like this out of context and tries to apply it where it doesn’t apply. It applies to a period of time where thousands of blood sacrifices are performed per year. The Temple. It doesn’t apply to 2020 where there are none. The rule is Lev 17:11 (AV) For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.
        Tovia has to pretend that that verse doesn’t mean what it says. It’s clear and it is amplified in the New Testament. Heb 9:22 (AV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

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      2. @VakeBiblia

        There are several problems with your response. First of all, Singer or anyone else doesn’t “just have to believe it”. We use our reason, not blind acceptance of your religion’s preconceived beliefs.

        “It applies to a period of time where thousands of blood sacrifices are performed per year. The Temple. It doesn’t apply to 2020 where there are none. The rule is Lev 17:11 (AV) For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”

        Actually, according to Ezekiel, the temple is supposed to be rebuilt after the battle of Gog and Magog. This is the most obvious proof that Christian theology contradicts that of the Tanakh. Therefore, Christianity is false because it contradicts its own scripture.

        “Tovia has to pretend that that verse doesn’t mean what it says. It’s clear and it is amplified in the New Testament. Heb 9:22 (AV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.”

        If that was true, then it would have made more sense for Jesus to have appeared after the temple was destroyed. When he appeared, the temple was still there and the sacrifices were still being performed.

        Also, if blood sacrifice was so important for the forgiveness of sins, what was God’s plan of salvation for all the nations of the world outside of Israel before the coming of Jesus?

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      3. mr.heathcliff

        “The rule is Lev 17:11 (AV) For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”

        which blood? pigs blood? sheeps blood? dogs blood? human blood? which blood?
        if “blood makes an atonement for the soul” then why did the jews have to MAKE A quality offering ? in other words, why did it have to come from a specific unblemished animal? do you know why? because the jews had to work HARD to look after an animal (works and rituals)

        since the jews could not offer a sick or diseased animal (read isaiah, the messiah was AQUAINTEED WITH DISEASES), THEN the animal could not be offered. in other words , the blood HAS no “atoning power” if it comes from DISEASED animal which means that QUALITY is the reason here.

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      4. mr.heathcliff

        “The rule is Lev 17:11 (AV) For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”

        does this cover lying and theft?

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      5. mr.heathcliff

        there is an entire process going on of works/deeds/rituals. what you need to know is that yhwh likes human words/deeds/rituals/offerings and there is not one passage in entire tanakh where it says yhwh will sacrifice himself because . actually the last i checked, i couldn’t find a verse where it says that yhwh himself would come down an make an animal offering lol

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  2. mr.heathcliff

    “You don’t know about the sacrifices taking place at the Temple and Tabernacle during the time of Solomon?”

    it doesn’t matter . what did solomon say in first king chapter 8 verses 46-50 ?

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  3. mr.heathcliff

    “Yep. They were in big trouble for 70 years. They had no sacrifices so no forgiveness.”

    thats like saying that even though adam had faith in a pagan human sacrifice(future “sacrifice” of jesus), he had no forgiveness, he was still punished. meaning, faith brings u no forgiveness.

    you used the word “BIG trouble”

    what does “big trouble” mean? were their children getting eaten? were their women getting raped in broad day light? where they getting burnt alive? so yhwh the loving and “merciful” being does all this because jew is not slicing an animal neck?

    what did moment of respite and peace indicate ? “big trouble” went down to “little trouble” ?

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  4. mr.heathcliff

    i think the principle you are following is

    A
    peace = forgiveness = saved = means animal offering

    B
    jew in exile = punished = no forgiveness

    is this correct?

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  5. mr.heathcliff

    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

    are you guys saying that jesus thought that a HUMAN OFFERING fulfilled animal offerings ? how then is that a “fulfillment” ?

    did jesus know what kosher animals wre?

    could you fulfill the law by slicing a pig ?

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  6. mr.heathcliff

    i think vake you have made the hebrew relationship with yhwh a difficult one. if there is no blood, then the jew, in your brains, will feel as if the whole building will fall on his head because yhwh requires blood to cool his justice . i think you made those jews in a relationship of fear and blood, when those poor souls had no blood their worship would have been a useless one.

    the father was to be feared and full of wrath

    if there was no offering, the jew would fear even steping out, forget stepping out, he would probably pray to another god to save him from destruction .

    i now understand israels idolatrous relationship with other gods vake.

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  7. mr.heathcliff

    then comes christianity which sees the father as full of wrath, ritual and PUNISHMENT

    he is a punishing father full of wrath and he gives useless rituals which do not appease him except the blood

    think.about the poor soul who could offer animals INFECTED by virus

    the jew would hope that the sick animal.get accepted. you made the jews relationship one of fear , blood offerings and rituals. Father is a DISTANT ritualistic, legalistic being who is full of burning rage.

    blood blood blood
    fear fear fear
    Wrath wrath wrath

    you are indirectly saying that yhwh was psychologically raping the jews

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