Do Christians Today Have Real Faith? – A Response to Two Christian Apologists, Part 2

On By quranandbibleblogIn Bible, Christianity, Jesus, Ken Temple, Responses

Do Christians Today Have Real Faith? – A Response to Two Christian Apologists, Part 2

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بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْم

“Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

– Matthew 17:20

            This is Part 2 of my response to 2 Christian apologists who attempted to side-step my challenge to the global Christian community to fulfill the alleged promise of Jesus (peace be upon him) with apologetic excuses for why this promise does not apply to Christians. In Part 1, I responded to the excuses of author of the website “Vake Biblia”.[1] In this present article, I will respond to Ken Temple’s excuses.[2]

Ken Temple’s Mountain of Metaphors

            In contrast to the strategy employed by the author of “Vake Biblia”, who claimed that the promises of miracles only applied to the first generation of Christians who were preaching to the Jews, Temple used a different strategy. According to him, it was all just a metaphor. He claims that:

“a mountain in those contexts is a symbol for something that is standing in the way of the moral will of God, but always under God’s sovereignty also. (in Matthew 17 the context was sickness and healing – but God does not always heal us physically by just praying for it or “claiming it” by faith, etc.”

So, Temple wants us to believe that when Jesus (peace be upon him) said that a true Christian could drop a mountain into the ocean or cause a fig tree to wither away, he was really only saying that faithful Christians could overcome any obstacle. It was just a “symbol” or a “metaphor”.

            Of course, Temple neglects to mention that his own New Testament refutes this interpretation, since it claims that the disciples performed many wondrous miracles as they preached the Gospel. I provided some examples in Part 1. Here are some more:

“But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead; but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.”[3]

In the same chapter, Paul also healed the father of Publius, the chief official of the island of Malta:

“Paul went in to see him and, after prayer, placed his hands on him and healed him. When this had happened, the rest of the sick on the island came and were cured.”[4]

So, there is no reason to think that the promise of moving mountains was only a metaphor and not a promise to be fulfilled literally. It could certainly be a “symbol” for any obstacle that one may face in the trials of life, but there is no reason why it cannot also be interpreted literally as well.

            Temple then states that:

“[t]he cursing of the fig tree and the cleansing of the temple in the Mark 11 and Matthew 21 passage shows that Jesus was using those physical things as symbols of apostate Israel who had no fruit.”

That is all well and good, except that Jesus (peace be upon him) specifically said to the disciples:

“Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.””[5]

Does Temple think he knows better than his savior? Jesus said that a faithful Christian can do or ask for anything if he/she “believes”. In his comment, Temple said:

“…but God does not always heal us physically by just praying for it or “claiming it” by faith, etc.”

Of course, I agree that this does not mean that God answers every prayer, and surely it does not mean that a Christian can destroy the world with a snap of his fingers, like a certain mad titan in the Avengers movies. Surely, there are some exceptions to every rule. But that is not what I am asking for anyway. All I am asking for is just ONE example of a Christian who can perform the miracles that Jesus said a faithful Christian could perform. Surely, there must be at least ONE such person in the world.

thanos
Figure 1 – Christians need not be like Thanos, the “Mad Titan”, to prove the truth of their religion.

            Also, notice that Matthew 21:21 refers to the withering of the fig tree as the example for what faithful Christians can do. He said “not only can you do what was done to the fig tree…”[6] This can only mean that the fig tree incident was meant to serve as a literal example of what faith could accomplish. That it was a symbol for “apostate Israel” could also very well be the case, but there is no reason to think that it could not also be referring to literal miracles that faith can accomplish. The only reason Temple wants to discount the latter view is because he knows that no Christian, including himself, can do what the Christian scriptures promise.

            So, we can see that Temple’s excuses, like those of “Vake Biblia”, do not stand up to scrutiny. It seems the apologists are embarrassed at their inability to prove their “faith” and hence making their savior out to be a liar. Therefore, as I asked in Part 1, so I ask again: is there any Christian who can fulfill the promises of their savior? Please move Mount Everest from its present location and throw it in the Indian Ocean. Do this, and I will convert to Christianity immediately.

Mount Everest         

Or if that is too difficult, then the Christians can simply cause a fig tree, or any tree, to wither away as Jesus withered the fig tree. Due to concern for their safety, I will not ask them to fulfill the absurd promises made in Mark 16 and expect them to pick up venomous snakes or drink poison and not be harmed. The point of the challenge is not to hurt these people, as they surely will be hurt if they mess around with vipers or cobras or drink strychnine, but to convince them that they have placed their faith in a religion that makes false promises. Thus, they should seek answers elsewhere, because the answers are not to be found in Christianity.

And Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) knows best!

[1] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/25/do-christians-today-have-real-faith-a-response-to-two-christian-apologists-part-1/

https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/25/vake-biblia-cannot-explain-why-christians-are-unable-to-fulfill-the-promises-of-their-savior-sad-but-predictable/

[2] https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/21/is-christianity-the-true-religion-and-do-christians-have-real-faith-the-gospels-provide-the-litmus-test/#comment-9086

[3] Acts 28:5-6.

Notice that this was also a “sign” given to Gentiles, which further refutes the arguments of the author of “Vake Biblia” as well.

[4] Acts 28:8-10.

[5] Matthew 21:21.

[6] As a side note, there is a clear contradiction between Matthew and Mark as to the timing of the fig tree incident:

Matthew 21:18-20

 

Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

 Mark 11:12-14, 20-21

 

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 1Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it. […]

 

In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”

We can clearly see that in Matthew, the fig tree withered immediately, as Jesus and the disciples were standing there. But in Mark, the fig tree does not immediately wither, and none of them see it happen. It was only the next day that they found it “withered from the roots”.

 

52 thoughts on “Do Christians Today Have Real Faith? – A Response to Two Christian Apologists, Part 2”

  4. Sabit cekic

    Christians are in a state of confusion with no way out based on reasonable belief from there scripture as a whole. Unfortunately, whats preached in churches starts out as reasonable and gradually becomes more taboo to the actual teachings of jesus (alayhi asallam). For instance, The church of scientology uses rational arguments when you become a member and slowly starts implementing there ideology about aliens and how some people are actual aliens.

    Liked by 1 person

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  5. stewjo004

    @ Zoze
    Didn’t say anything so it’s not a “taste of my own medicine”. Next, the ayat you quoted is referring to on the Day the Horn is blown. Furthermore, a mountain-moving can be visualized now (as the video demonstrated) and finally, instead of humbling yourself after reading the Quran and seeing the sign you are LITERALLY fulfilling what the Quran says about the disbelievers:

    37:12. But you’re amazed, while they mock,
    37:13. and when they’re reminded, they pay no attention,
    37:14. when they see a sign from God, they find a reason to make fun of it.

    Become a Muslim Zoze before its too late.

    Liked by 1 person

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      1. stewjo004

        I…know…by reading? Let’s look at the verse you quoted’s context:

        52:9. The Day when the sky trembles and spins uncontrollably,
        52:10. and the mountains move,
        52:11. The deniers are damned that Day.
        52:12. The same ones playing around in pointless activities.
        52:13. The Day they will be ruthlessly cast into the Fire,
        52:14. it will be said: “This is the Fire, which you used to deny.”

        How was that for evidence?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. So now you are giving me verses before and afterwards. The same applies with the Bible, why make a big gas balloon on a particular verse and ignore other. listen Abdul i know Muslims are big time liers but that doesn’t work with me. I will give the taste of your own medicine. So stop playing games.

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      2. I am still confident what about you are you not this is why Muslims start playing the trick of weak and strong ahadith. Anything that embarrasses Muslims they say it is weak and anything that favors them it is strong. The main point is you Muslims are ashamed by your own Islamic literature this is why you have to play the filthy games. We Christians don’t have to.

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  6. stewjo004

    @ Zoze

    Lol, what? You made a claim and were then disproven. I wasn’t going to mention your text but since you brought it up why don’t you instead talk about QB’s note of a contradiction in the story:

    Matthew 21:18-20
    Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked.

    Mark 11:12-14, 20-21
    The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 1Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it. […] In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”

    Or if you prefer you can answer my question of is the Son All-Knowing?

    Liked by 1 person

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      1. Hanuman, Stew roasted you. Get over it.

        Now don’t jump again monkey and answer the questions: can you move Mt. Everest into the Indian ocean? Is the son all-knowing or not? Why is there a contradiction between Mark and Matthew on the fig tree incident? Is your god evil for commanding the murders of babies? Let’ see…are there any more questions that you have avoided answering?

        Liked by 1 person

  7. stewjo004

    @ Zoze

    What the heck are you talking about?

    1. Nobody is “jumping”
    2. The “mountain” business is finished you were wrong
    3. We’re not even discussing hadith we’re talking about Quran
    4. Nobody said anything about a weak or strong hadith and even if we did we have an established grading system for filtering out stuff. It has nothing to do with what is “embarrassing” or not its “can we prove the Prophet(saw) said this?” If Early Christians had done this you wouldn’t have problems with your text and history now.
    5. Can you explain your two “inspired” writers contradiction?
    6. Can you answer the simple question is the Son All-Knowing or not?

    Liked by 2 people

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    1. No, no monkey. We are not embarrassed. We know some Muslims do or believe things that are contrary to Islam. We can find many crosstians like that too. But what you do is spam the blog with propaganda when you get embarrassed and cannot refute us. You violate the blog rules. Thus, your posts get deleted. Plus, you often times use foul language like the perverted monkey you are.

      So stick to the topic monkey and your posts won’t get deleted. Follow the rules. So, do you admit you cannot fulfill the promises of your mangod, pagan monkey? Yes or no? Don’t deflect. Just answe the question. 😁

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    2. Here is an example of crosstians doing stupid things:

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/01/witchcraft-curse-africa-kristy-bamu

      You see how this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? But if we follow your logic monkey, since Christians do these things, then Christianity must be a stupid religion too, right? And actually, the author of the article blames Christianity for the witchcraft craze in African churches. So this is very embarrassing but I would think that most Christians would not agree with the African Christians.

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  9. mr.heathcliff

    Salaam brothers wonder if any of you will comment here,

    The Prophecy of Zephaniah 3:9

    so he thinks that the original hebrew had yhwh and ahmed said that the jews have replaced GOds name , so what was the proper name before the jewish doctoring and toying with the text ?

    green is a hypocrite, he thinks yahwh = jesus , but ya and shua is not yhwh and what is worse is that he believes “ya saves” by BECOMING A DYINg god

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    Reply

      1. Monkey, deflecting again? Brubaker is just another revisionist clown.

        And anyway, this doesn’t change the fact that you follow a pagan religion that worships a man. Nor does it change the fact that your mangod lied about moving mountains. Have you given up monkey? Do you admit you cannot fulfill your mangod’s promises?

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      2. Comment deleted Monkey. I know you’re embarrassed and humiliated so you keep deflecting to meaningless links, but then you’re just wasting your time. For each irrelevant link you post, that’s one more toilet you could have cleaned. 😉

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    2. Peter Cunliffe

      To the Islam bashing Christian apologists who balk to accept the challenge of asking Mount Everest to jump into the ocean and are crying foul, I will go easier on you. You can start smaller.
      Go to a park and ask an anthill to pick itself up and jump into a stream. 😉
      If that fails, try asking yourselves why the Bible is flat out lying to you. And pick up the Quran and read about who Jesus peace be upon him really is and who is the God whom he worships.

      Liked by 3 people

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      2. 🤦‍♂️ You’re bringing this up again monkey? Dude, what is with you and your goldfish memory?

        Mountains move as a result of plate tectonics dummy. And the verse is referring to the Day of Judgment.

        Your Bible says faith will allow you to move a mountain. This is talking about a miracle, not a natural event. Get it, stupid?

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      6. Lol, son of Satan, why are you so stupid? Mountains do move. Yes, the Quran is right. Ants do communicate with each other and Suleiman understood their speech as a miracle from God.

        Meanwhile, your Bible talks about talking snakes and donkeys and false promises of moving mountains. Only an idiot like you would believe such a book. 😂

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      8. 😂🤣😂 Man Hanuman, you are one dumb crosstian!

        You think God can’t make an ant talk dummy? Well I guess I can see why you would believe that. Your god is not all knowing or all powerful. You worship a weak pagan god like the Hindus.

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      9. Yes everything in Quran is possible. So when Allah says to practice Muta it is possible. Allah says to kill the Jews and Christians it is possible great. Ants talking hahaha making me laugh.

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      14. No monkey, it was not the devil dummy. That’s a later Christian interpretation because Christians are habitual liars. The book of Genesis explicitly stated that it was an actual snake. So snakes are talking now. Wooow, Hanuman and his Bible in wonderland. 😂🤣

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  10. stewjo004

    @ Zoze

    Funny you should bring up mashing stuff:

    Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, blessed is he who repays you as you have done to us. Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalm 137:8-9)

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