Mark 13:32 and the “Omniscience” of the Holy Spirit
Over at the new “BloggingTheology”, the Catholic apologist and blog contributor Denis Giron has published a short article in which he attempts to defend the belief in the “omniscience” of the “Holy Spirit”.[1] This is understandable, since for Christians, the “Holy Spirit” is one of the 3 “persons” of the trinity, and is part of the triune Godhead. Specifically, Giron looks at Mark 13:32, an immensely important passage which has been the subject of debates regarding the alleged divinity of Jesus (peace be upon him). But a less discussed subject, and which is probably even more important, is how Mark 13:32 applies to the “Holy Spirit”. Here is the verse:
“[b]ut about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
We can see why this verse is so controversial with regards to the alleged divinity of Jesus, since it clearly states that the “son” does not know when the “hour” will occur. Christians have tried to deny this significance by appealing to the alleged “two natures” of Jesus (diophysitism). Hence, they argue that only the “human” nature of Jesus did not know when the hour will occur, but his “divine” nature does. Whether this argument works or not is a different topic altogether, but suffice it to say that it is a weak argument, and Christians are only anachronistically placing the later “two natures” concept into the text.
For the present topic, the verse is also significant with regards to the “Holy Spirit”, and I must admit that I never thought of it along those lines. But now that the Christians have brought it, it is a good topic to discuss, and one which I think makes the problem worse for trinitarians. If “no one” knows when the hour will come “but only the Father”, then it implies that even the “Holy Spirit” does not know of its coming. Giron attempts to avoid this implication by arguing about the meaning of the phrase “no one”. He argues rather persuasively that the Greek phrase οὐδεὶς οἶδεν (nobody/no one knows) does not necessarily have to mean literally “no one”. He points to other Greek writings, such as Dinarchus’ “Against Demosthenes”, where it is clear that the meaning does not necessarily include “everyone” under the sun, and thus when it is used in Mark 13:32, it does not mean that the “Holy Spirit” also does not “know” when the hour will come. It certainly sounds plausible. But the problem is that Giron has to explain the ending of the verse, because it clearly clarifies the “no one knows” part by saying “but the Father”. In other words, literally “no one knows” about the hour EXCEPT the Father. Based on this, it follows that the “Holy Spirit” is also NOT omniscient, just like the angels and the “Son”.[2] This creates an even bigger problem for Christians, since they cannot fall back on the “two natures” argument for the Holy Spirit. So while Giron’s discussion of the Greek is admirable, it is misplaced. He needs to explain how the phrase “but the Father” somehow also includes the “Holy Spirit”.
[1] https://bloggingtheology2.com/2018/11/28/does-mark-1332-preclude-the-omniscience-of-the-holy-spirit/
[2] Another example of the Holy Spirit’s lack of omniscience can be seen in Matthew 11:27:
“[a]ll things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
Here again, we are told that “no one” knows the Father or the Son, and then clarifies it by adding “except” the Son (who knows the Father) and the Father (who knows the Son), respectively. The key word is “except”. Why would the “Holy Spirit” be included when it is not mentioned at all?
The Quran and Bible Blog 
Pingback: Mark 13:32 and the “Omniscience” of the Holy Spirit – Blogging Theology
Reblogged this on Blogging Theology.
LikeLiked by 1 person
now if son SHARES the same knowledge the father has and could get that knowledge ANY TIME, why did he say, “only the father….” ? if jesus knew he will not be in the SAME state post resurrection, why did he say “only the father” ?
LikeLiked by 1 person
Good point.
LikeLike
Person
D and h
Now. If the person spoke through h , then through d he already knew, so why did he say “only x” knows ? if p knows THROUGH d and at the same time does not know , why did he say “only x knows” ?
When p wants to voice his “d thoughts” he voices them through h.
Can you SPEAK as a man saying “NOT the son ….” when son does know?
LikeLike
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskBibleScholars/comments/a27xjm/mark_1332/?st=jp71bv87&sh=47086dba
you tell me faiz, if context means “only the father ” and “no one else” what else can you say except that christians are telling us that their pagan trinity god is a bad communicator?
LikeLiked by 1 person
please take note that it says “ASK bible scholars”
LikeLike
LOL, yeah. If you read the bumbling Christian replies to this problem, that is basically what they are saying: that the trinitarian god couldn’t effectively communicate. They basically argue that when Jesus said this, he wasn’t talking about the holy spirit, but if that’s the case, shouldn’t he have known better? Why try to muddy the water instead of just clearly saying that only the Father and the Holy Spirit know when the hour will come? Simple! But the trinitarian god likes to muddy the water. He likes to make vague statements and then say “well, that’s not what I meant”.
LikeLike
It is all pagan nonsense which causes one to divide god in the mind
For example
1. Does the father need to be authorised to say “i am” ?
Crosstians will say , “no way”
if the son has all access to fathers mind, power and ability and he is not COMMANDED to say “i am”
Why is he begging his god to take the cup away, why is he saying “i of my own self cannot do ANYTHING, “my father commands me what to say”
“Father is the ONLY true god”
this is ONE person who is “fully god and fully man” saying NONSENSE when this ONE person FULLY knows that he has access to the power which GRANTS requests.
yes, the christian god is god of confusion and christians make jesus into deluded pagan.
just picture it
you have the pagan triune being and then you have a man attached to this pagan triune being
This man part knows that it has ALL access which can be COMMUNICATED to the man part because it is ONE person with the divine person
yes, christ was a DECEIVER
to mislead by a false appearance or statement; delude
just imagine a normal human who is just FULLY human, but someone reveals to you he has knowledge of what united states goverment is planning to do in next five minuite , but he talks like he is IGNORANT of what they are planning to do and says “no one knows ….”
LikeLike
Now imagine that the fully man part has all ACCESS to the mind of the man who will do the deed in the next five min and ALL the planners…..would you trust such a man?
LikeLike
Hey people,
ANY time you see “except clause” in the bible , remember it can mean in ADDITION to. lol
addition
/əˈdɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
the action or process of adding something to something else.
haha
LikeLiked by 2 people
Interesting! ❤️🦋🌀
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks!
LikeLiked by 1 person