The Christian stooges Robbie and Coco (Joel) have attempted to justify the eternal torment of babies in hell. But the moral ramifications of these absurd justifications does not seem to dawn on these fanatics: their “God” will actually judge babies and cast them into the lake of fire for something they didn’t even do! Coco has argued that God is justified because He knows the “future”. But in this case, the “future” didn’t happen and will never happen. So, how is it “just” or “loving” of the Christian god to torment babies in hell? Perhaps the most egregious thing about this is the relative nonchalant attitude of these brainwashed apologists. Coco responded to an earlier post by saying “yawn”, as if the issue of babies burning in hell is a minor issue which should not cause anyone to lose their sleep! Or perhaps, Coco is just trying to keep up appearances and is internally torn between what logic and reason say and what his faith says. In any case, the issue of babies burning in hell is a self-inflicted wound at the heart of Christianity. How can Christians maintain their their god is “compassionate”, “loving”, “just” or “fair” (although Robbie has admitted that his god cannot be fair and just at the same time), when the Christian version of hell will be filled with the anguished screams and cries of tortured babies? Perhaps Christians need to do some soul-searching. In the mean time, critics of this awful belief can take solace in the fact that the True God is not anything like the Christian concept of “god”, for the True God is loving and merciful. He will not punish innocent babies in hell for something they didn’t and couldn’t do. We can also enjoy exposing the barbarity of this particular Christian belief. Case in point: the following video hits the nail on the head and does a good job of showing how even Christians have struggled with this issue:
The Quran and Bible Blog 
LOl!!
Classic stupidity of islamic apologists.
So, do babies remain babies in the afterlife? Do they still nurse? If so, this is bad for muslim babies since your “heaven” is – according to your profit – almost completely devoid of women. Maybe they will be nursed by one of the 72 prostitutes the “lah” will provide for muslim men’s eternal sexual pleasure?
Great afterlife you’ve got in store for muslim babies to be eternally nursed by creatures whose only purpose is to provide sexual acts for men for eternity.
LOL!!
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@ Joel
Really that’s the best you could come up with to avoid your theological issue? Every Muslim knows that all the people of paradise are the same age no matter when they die:
It was narrated from Mu’aadh ibn Jabal that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The people of Paradise will enter Paradise hairless, beardless with their eyes anointed with kohl, aged thirty or thirty-three years.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2545. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 7928)
Now I know in desperation you’re going to try and grasp anything and say:
“Well, the babies could be made thirty-three too!”
Two problems:
1. There’s no biblical textual evidence to state such a thing. (Like God transcending through time and space to save people before Jesus(as))
2. They are still punished before they actually committed any crime which is unjust.
I mean the fact that we’re sitting here debating about babies suffering eternal punishment is pretty bad man.
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Also as a note He(saw) never said Jannah is devoid of women. He(saw) said most the people in Hell are women. There’s a difference between the two statements. There are actually twice as many women in Jannah than men.
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LOL, this is one of the dumbest claims these crosstians make. If Coco had an ounce of reason, instead of just copying laughable polemics off Google, he would see the fallacy of this argument.
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My point is valid. Do babies remain babies in the afterlife? Your claim is that babies suffer through eternity – what is your evidence that babies remain babies in the afterlife?
As for the rest of your silly claims – does the “lah” have full knowledge of every possible future, past, and present, or doesn’t he? Yahweh does, which means he is in a position to make morally sound judgments based on this knowledge. You guys cannot really be this dense can you?
LOL!! Muslim women will enter paradise beardless? Or will there be no women in heaven? Fair and compassionate “god” you have there.
You cannot be seriously that dumb? YOUR OWN PROPHET SAYS THAT THE PEOPLE OF PARADISE WILL BE AGED 30 OR SO. So babies must be thirty or so.
But the real stupidity is that you think that temporal age has meaning in places outside of time. Proof that islam and mohammed is nonsense.
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Moron, the burden of proof is on you to prove from your Bible that babies will not be babies in the afterlife. Or do you believe in Limbo, as Thomas Aquinas did?
By the way, did you notice in the video how “God” looked? He looked like a mean old man, didn’t he? LOL!!
“LOL!! Muslim women will enter paradise beardless? Or will there be no women in heaven? Fair and compassionate “god” you have there.”
LOL!! Coco is so wrapped up in his desperate damage control, he can’t even think clearly! Obviously, the hadith is talking about the men being beardless, stupid! But that doesn’t mean that women are not included. We know from other hadiths that women will actually outnumber men in Paradise:
“Muhammad reported that some (persons) stated with a sense of pride and some discussed whether there would be more men in Paradise or more women. It was upon this that Abu Huraira reported that Abu’l Qasim (the Holy Prophet) (ﷺ) said: The (members) of the first group to get into Paradise would have their faces as bright as full moon during the night, and the next to this group would have their faces as bright as the shining stars in the sky, and every person would have two wives and the marrow of their shanks would glimmer beneath the flesh and there would be none without a wife in Paradise.”
As Ibn Hajar commented:
“Abu Huraira used this Hadith as a proof to maintain that women will outnumber men in Jannah (paradise)…”
And of course, the Quran states clearly that men and women who are believers will go to Paradise:
““The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise. Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity.”” (9:71-72).
“You cannot be seriously that dumb? YOUR OWN PROPHET SAYS THAT THE PEOPLE OF PARADISE WILL BE AGED 30 OR SO. So babies must be thirty or so.”
LOL!! You idiot! Stew is asking you to prove from your Bible that babies will be grown up when they are burning in the fire! Or do you accept the Prophet Muhammad’s claim that all people will be over 30 years of age in the afterlife? Are you unwittingly becoming a Muslim? LOL!!
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Ouch!!! Stew. you better be careful. If you inflict more damage on Coco, he will run away again!
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q and bs
Yawn. Once again we have a bait and switch tactic. The burden of proof is on you to show that babies will burn in hell and that they will remain babies.
Try to stay on track – you claim babies are going to burn for eternity. Now, follow closely, I’ll try to go as slowly as I can – you have asserted that babies will remain babies in the afterlife. I see no reason to believe this is true.
That aside, all I’m arguing is that God would have sufficient moral reason if babies were ever to be condemned. Since from the point of view of God who exists outside of time and who has access to all possible outcomes and realities existing simultaneously – again, I know you are a bit dumb but try to understand that this means all possible realities do, in fact exist for such a being – there are no circumstances where condemnation would be based on throwing innocents into hell.
So, please stop being stupid – for a being who exists outside of time and for whom, therefore, all outcomes do exist there simply is no “condemning” people for things they have not done.
It really is not that hard guys. Are you all really that dumb? LOL!!!
Again, you can’t understand these things because your ideas of the “lah” are stupid and come from the mind of an illiterate nomad.
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“Yawn. Once again we have a bait and switch tactic. The burden of proof is on you to show that babies will burn in hell and that they will remain babies.”
LOL!! Moron, I already established why babies will go to hell, according to Christianity: original sin. Christian theologians all agreed that no one can get into heaven without Jesus. And the Westminster Creed of Faith clearly states that only the “elect” babies will get into heaven:
“Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
Others, not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet they never truly come unto Christ, and therefore cannot be saved…”
The problem for you is original sin, and it’s no wonder why you keep ignoring it.
So, now that this is settled, go on. Prove from your Bible that these poor babies will not be babies when they are burning in hell. You need to show proof that people will be a certain age. Stop dancing around, cowardly monkey. Answer the question.
“Try to stay on track – you claim babies are going to burn for eternity. Now, follow closely, I’ll try to go as slowly as I can – you have asserted that babies will remain babies in the afterlife. I see no reason to believe this is true.”
Bwhahahaha! Still not getting it, eh? I don’t give a rat’s rear end about your personal opinions and whether you see any “reason”. It’s really not that difficult to understand. All people are born sinners. This is according to your religion. So if babies are sinners, and they die before accepting your sinful savior, then they cannot go to heaven. Again, this is according to the rules of YOUR religion. Do you disagree? If so, prove it from your Bible.
“That aside, all I’m arguing is that God would have sufficient moral reason if babies were ever to be condemned. Since from the point of view of God who exists outside of time and who has access to all possible outcomes and realities existing simultaneously – again, I know you are a bit dumb but try to understand that this means all possible realities do, in fact exist for such a being – there are no circumstances where condemnation would be based on throwing innocents into hell.”
LOL!! Oh I understand. You are just trying to cover your sorry behind with all “possibilities”. Notice how you are suggesting that babies may not be babies in the afterlife. This is to cover yourself just in case you cannot refute the notion that babies cannot get into heaven because of original sin. It makes it easier for you to swallow the injustice of your god. But then you are also saying that if God did condemn babies to hell, he would be completely justified. See? That’s typical of dancing monkeys. You try to have it both ways. But this only further condemns your god as a bloodthirsty tyrant. Condemning anyone for sins they never actually committed would not be just or fair. And if the babies are not babies in the afterlife, but grown-ups, that would still be unjust because they died before the age of accountability. In the end, you have done a poor job of defending your pagan god. Try again dummy.
“So, please stop being stupid – for a being who exists outside of time and for whom, therefore, all outcomes do exist there simply is no “condemning” people for things they have not done.
It really is not that hard guys. Are you all really that dumb? LOL!!!
Again, you can’t understand these things because your ideas of the “lah” are stupid and come from the mind of an illiterate nomad.”
LOL!! You realize how much of a moron you make yourself out to be? You are going in circles idiot. Please, try to use your one remaining brain cell. I know the holy spirit has sucked out all the reasoning abilities from your mind, but all hope is not lost. Try to think rationally. You don’t want to be a moron forever.
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q and bs
LOL!! YOu are too dumb for words.
All outcomes, possibilities and realities are available to the true god, Yahweh. He is outside of time and therefore not subject to it. I know you can’t comprehend this because your “lah” is constrained by his own creation and can’t enter it. Please engage with my arguments instead of embarrassing yourself with your dumb outbursts.
Plus, you haven’t explained how muslim women and babies will have no beards in heaven. LOL!!!
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LOL!! Coco is in denial! Cerbie, please help your girlfriend through this difficult time! She really needs your help!
Coco, you moron, as I already said, even if you would want to use this argument, the fact STILL remains that your god is punishing someone for something they WOULD have done, not what they ACTUALLY did. Please engage with my arguments instead of embarrassing yourself with your dumb outbursts. I know it’s tough to find out that you worship a demon. But we’ll help you get through this. And you have also have your boyfriend Cerbie to count on for support.
As for your deflection, I actually did explain it. Maybe you don’t remember because you ran away. 😉
Plus, you haven’t explained when the babies will grow up before their graduation to hell. LOL!!!
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LOL!! Coco is in denial! Cerbie, please help your girlfriend through this difficult time! She really needs your help!
LOL! “through this difficult time” LOL
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LOL!!
So after getting embarrassed on this issue, little Coco has gone into damage control. First, he comes with the unproven assertion that babies will not remain babies in the Christian afterlife. So what will happen to them? Will they age as they burn? Or will they be all grown up before they graduate and your god throws them into the fire? Limbo anyone? And at what age will that be? Post-pubescence anyone? 😉
Where is the scriptural evidence for this? I thought you guys were the ones who harp “sola scriptura”?
Second, the loser tried to once again deflect with a moronic comment about the Islamic heaven not having any women. Stew already refuted this. Crosstians are pathetic!
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So they are punished for stuff that were going to do but did not actually happen? Badbye “justice”….
@Everyone, how did the doctrine of the Original Sin get out of the discussion?
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Yeah, you noticed that, huh? The Christians sure did set original sin aside pretty quickly.
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“My point is valid. Do babies remain babies in the afterlife”
lol retarded pagan, OF COURSE, in your pagan christian hell THEY will be BABIES REMAINING as babies, just like judas will REMAIN as judas. for the people of hell, in your pagan bible, there is NO hint OF TRANSFORMATION, only DESTRUCTION.
just contrast between the people who go to heaven in your pagan greek hell vs the people who go to hell.
they STILL keep their human senses .
“Your claim is that babies suffer through eternity – what is your evidence that babies remain babies in the afterlif”
what proof do you have that BABY who enters hell WILL be transformed and “beamed up” to its “future state of commiting sin” and then PUNISHED ? ? ?????
why does a BABY even ENTER hell lol ?
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so “yah” the pagan god,
tells hebrews:
“go to pregnant women and infants and put sword right through them”
” Do babies remain babies in the afterlife””
THE DEED of CHANGING them would not be in the power of the baby. “yah” KILLED baby when it is INFant AND transformed it.
that would mean “yah” is RESPONSIBLE for brining the baby into existence, telling people to KILL it, then TRANSFORMING it and PUNISHING it.
that would mean “yah” is a MONSTER! he is an evil pagan god.
if the amalekite kids would have done something in future, “yah” got them killed when they were infant, then they are TRANSFORMED by “yah” in HELL, not by their DEED, but by “yahs” deed
it is like i kill an infant, CREATE an evil version of it, and then BURN it.
the new testament NEVER says that the people in hell are TRANSFORMED. the only thing is that their flesh will be DESTROYED and their soul.
compare to how it says that the people in heaven will be transformed.
you disgusting animals should not judge the beliefs of other religions based on the sick twisted diseased minds u have.
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“Once again we have a bait and switch tactic. The burden of proof is on you to show that babies will burn in hell and that they will remain babies.
Try to stay on track – you claim babies are going to burn for eternity. Now, follow closely, I’ll try to go as slowly as I can – you have asserted that babies will remain babies in the afterlife. I see no reason to believe this is true.
That aside, all I’m arguing is that God would have sufficient moral reason if babies were ever to be condemned. Since from the point of view of God who exists outside of time and who has access to all possible outcomes and realities existing simultaneously – again, I know you are a bit dumb but try to understand that this means all possible realities do, in fact exist for such a being – there are no circumstances where condemnation would be based on throwing innocents into hell.”
you know , faiz is right, this guy is a jumping monkey .
what REASON he provided to show “i see no reason to believe this is true” ? is it because u believe original sin is bs ? is it because u think that baby will be transformed because u don’t like the thought of your “just” god burning innocent baby?
i provided u proof
NOTICE in the new testament, the people who are DESTINED to hell, never are said to be transformed.
they are said to FEEL the pain , not only their flesh, but their soul also.
contrast to the people in heaven.
now, how come
1. baby is murdered by your god, then created in hell and punished for reason x which did not even come about on the earth ?
2. wouldn’t this be two injustices. first injustice , it was born to amalekite parents, 2nd injustice it was created in a state it did not practice on earth.
questions
1. is an AMALEKITE BABY /INFANT INNOCENT OF SINS ?
2. if god can punish a “transformed” child in hell for not even doing deeds on earth, then what is the point of the justice system ?
what does “innocence ” even mean then? what does “justice” mean? what does “slow to anger” mean? what does “kind and merciful” mean?
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” you have asserted that babies will remain babies in the afterlife. I see no reason to believe this is true.”
so it seems that the pagan god yah will punish a child in HELL by transforming him BECAUSE blood of krishna/krist is not SUFFICIENT enough to atone for sins which did not even happen LOL (ONLY a “possibility” in MIND of yah). so even the human sacrifice of krist is not able to ATONE for babies , even though these pagan kafir say that it is “timeless” LOL
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karma
[kahr-muh]
ExamplesWord Origin
See more synonyms for karma on Thesaurus.com
noun
Hinduism, Buddhism. action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation: in Hinduism one of the means of reaching Brahman.Compare bhakti(def 1), jnana.
Theosophy. the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one incarnation according to that person’s deeds in the previous incarnation.
fate; destiny.
i don’t know but it sounds like the testicle worshipper has kind of fused karmic thinking in his thinking . when crosstian can’t find answers , he runs to hinduism and buddism, u can’t blame them, yhwh did the same. he read budda and hated his triune being .
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“their “God” will actually judge babies and cast them into the lake of fire for something they didn’t even do! “
And there it is. Second sentence of the post and the straw man argument surfaces.
C’mon Britney, let’s see your evidence that God will judge and punish babies for something they didn’t do…
I’ll be waiting. No distraction. No red herrings. No pkaying the victim. This is your post and your words. Let’s see the evidence
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LOL!! So Cerbie emerges from the shadows and tries to give another whack at defending his religion.
Are you crosstians deliberately being dense? Aren’t you the idiots who believe in original sin? Aren’t you the ones who believe that no one can get into heaven because of original sin, hence the need for a “savior”? John 3:5 states:
“…no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.”
Well, that seems pretty clear doesn’t it? Unless you are “born again”, you cannot enter heaven. Don’t try to act as if this is not a big issue in your religion. Your theologians have struggled with this issue for centuries. Why did John Calvin say that there are babies in hell?
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I see. No evidence. Expected.
Not surprising when you started with a flawed definition of original sin.
Strike two…
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Lol, so once again, Cerbie is going to ignore what his Bible and theologians have said for centuries. I see. Expected.
And meanwhile, the lowlife is simultaneously arguing that babies are “sinners”.
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You can absolutely bet if britney was honest, he would admit that he spends more time teaching his child to “be good” due to her sinful nature, than he does teaching her what is bad.
Britney, why does your child inherently choose sinful behaviour? And don’t pretend she doesn’t. All children do, which is why parents exert so much energy into training in righteousness.
Your child, like all children, is absolute proof of original sin.
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okay , tell me what the child does from 0-5 that one could consider sinful ?
lets assume that the child is on an IRELAND . and child is with his parent. just two people. tell me, from 0-5 , what the child will do that would be considered sinful ?
we are all ears.
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“Your child, like all children, is absolute proof of original sin.”
his child is absolutely innocent . i want to know what “sinful behaviour” a child does from 0-5, can you list them . now since mary had to take your god to the jerusalem to educate him in “righteousness” from birth on ward ,indicates mary thought that jesus will inherently choose sinful behaviour , right?
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Well lookie here! Just one comment before, Cerbie was asking for proof that babies will burn in hell according to the Bible. But here he is now trying to establish that babies are sinners! Hmmm, I wonder why that is? If the crosstian is denying that babies will burn in hell, then why is it important to establish that babies are sinners? I mean if they go to heaven, then it doesn’t matter that they are sinners, right? So now we have 2 crosstians going in circles, and trying to cover all angles just in case they get embarrassed on one.
What is even more hilarious is that Cerbie, the childless buffoon, is trying to educate parents about the “evil” nature of their children! What happened Cerbie? No children of your own to experiment on whether they are “evil”? I know, I know. It’s because no woman could bear to have your child, right? I mean let’s face it. You are an obnoxious little crosstian dog! LOL!!
So let me give you a little lesson in parenting. Yes, parents have to teach their children how to basically do everything, although some things are innate, as I will show shortly. Children are not born with that knowledge. That’s why you have to teach them their numbers, the alphabet and so on. It’s not innate knowledge. So just like children don’t have a knowledge of numbers or alphabets, they also don’t know what is good or bad. There is no such concept in their minds yet. That’s all part of the process of growing up.
But does that prove that they are “sinners”? Well, maybe according to the sick and demented religion called Christianity, but not to reasonable people. In fact, babies and toddlers constitute the best proof that original sin is a demonic and idiotic concept invented by the most demonic and idiotic religion in the history of the world. Allow me to educate you once again. Scientific studies have shown that babies and toddlers show altruistic behavior. If you are an ignorant crosstian, who doesn’t understand the biological concept of altruism, you can see my article where I discussed this: https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/2017/07/27/born-a-sinner-a-critical-investigation-of-the-origin-of-original-sin/#_edn57
As psychologist Michael Tomasello explains:
“From when they first begin to walk and talk and become truly cultural beings, young human children are naturally cooperative and helpful in many—though obviously not all—situations…And they do not get this from adults; it comes naturally.”
WOW!! So there you have it! Original sin is a bogus idea. Once again, science trumps the Bible!
Now as a parent, I can say that I have witnessed this same behavior in my daughter. She is only 17 months old, but mashaAllah, she already has shown instances of selfless behavior. Where did she get this from? Let me give you an example. Often times, my wife and I play physical games where we try to see who can push the other on to the bed. It’s like a wrestling match. I won’t give you the exact details, but suffice it so say that I usually win. 🙂 But what is truly remarkable and funny is how our daughter interprets these games. She doesn’t typically laugh when she sees this. She actually starts crying! It’s like she is witnessing one parent hurt the other, even though that is not the case. My wife and I are just having a little fun but our daughter interprets it as something bad.
Also, just like Tomasello said, our daughter also exhibits helpful behavior. Just the other night, we were watching a movie and eating popcorn. All of a sudden, without even being asked, my daughter started feeding me her popcorn! Why would a supposedly “evil” and “sinful” child exhibit such behavior? Isn’t it amazing how even a child can refute the Bible? LOL!!
So Cerbie, the moral of the story is first become a parent yourself you jobless, beer-bellied lowlife, and then try to educate people on parenting and the supposed “sinful” nature of their children. Leave it to Christianity to turn innocent babies into evildoers. What kind of stupid cult do you follow?
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you…you should let her win sometimes…
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Yeah, maybe!
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that a christian can even suggest that the child they see before them is a sinner should send shock waves all throughout the earth. these people need to be reported and deported to hell. if u gonna see the child as evil , when will u have time to think good about it ? christians project man. they are shit with legs so children are shit with legs too.
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Isn’t it amazing that the fact that we are talking about a baby or child does not seem to register in their minds? We have one crosstian trying to claim (without evidence) that they will in fact not be babies in the afterlife, whereas the other nutjob is basically questioning if they will be punished for something they didn’t do (nevermind that they are BABIES and thus the reason should not matter anyway). Cerbie seems to tacitly admit that babies will be punished in his god’s hell. He just thinks that it will be for some good reason! This is what he said:
“I was asking for proof that children are punished for something they didn’t do…”
So, he wants proof that children will be punished for something they didn’t do, not that CHILDREN will be punished in the first place! This is the extent to which Christianity has corrupted these people’s minds. They don’t even see anything wrong with the idea that a child will be punished in hell. This is a sick and psychotic religion.
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Imam Britney al-lat
It seems you’ve begun the damage control. I’ve not actually given my opinion on the topic, so I’m not really surprised that you’ve chosen to smear me anyway.
You made a claim. It was that simple. And I asked you to provide evidence for the claim. I asked you not to deflect or dodge or play the victim and yet here we are with you doing all three.
So, again, where is the evidence that Christians believe babies are punished for something they didn’t do?
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Hahahaha, yeah I noticed that. I already pointed out how you guys are going around in circles, giving vague answers.
I made a claim. I backed it up. It’s that simple. You just don’t like the evidence, so you pretend as if it doesn’t prove anything.
So again, if a child goes to hell (which has been established already based on the Bible and Christian theologians), before the age of accountability, they are going to hell for something they can’t even be held accountable for. Also, your Bible says that no one can go to heaven because of the inherited sin of Adam and Eve (original sin). We already know that mankind is held responsible for a sin they didn’t commit. It just gets worse when you are talking about babies and children.
Also, your girlfriend has argued that God has “moral reason” because he knows the future. In other words, he can send a child to hell because he knows what that child would have done in the future. This isn’t me saying this. These are your fellow crosstians.
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“So again, if a child goes to hell (which has been established already based on the Bible and Christian theologians), before the age of accountability, they are going to hell for something they can’t even be held accountable for.“
Please provide a biblical reference demonstrating the “age of accountability”.
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OMG!! That’s a question for you to answer, stupid! We have been asking you this question for a month now! The age of accountability…”post pubescence”…remember?
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So you make the claim that a child “before the age of accountability” is punished for something they didn’t do, yet you can’t provide what this supposed age of accountability is nor being punished for something they didn’t do.
In other words, you’ve completely fabricated both claims.
And then you expect me to provide the evidence for your claim? You really are silly imam britney al-lat
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You must really be the biggest imbecile in the world or you are deliberately being dense to avoid engaging the topic.
The Tanakh mentions that children are not held accountable before a certain age, but it does not explain what age that is. That’s a short coming of your Bible. That’s your problem, not mine. The point is that there IS an age of accountability. Now, coming over to the original sin nonsense that you nutjobs have invented, this creates a contradiction. Your NT maintains that everyone is born a sinner, which includes babies. So if a baby dies before reaching the age of accountability, that baby cannot get into heaven. Again, this is what your theologians say. This isn’t something I made up, contrary to your lie. But since the Tanakh clearly establishes that there is an age of accountability, then a baby cannot be held accountable for original sin or any sin he/she may have committed. So, once again, why are you dancing around this issue? It seems you know how evil your Canannite god is, so you are dancing like a typical apologist.
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“Cerbie was asking for proof that babies will burn in hell according to the Bible. “
Not at all. I was asking for proof that children are punished for something they didn’t do, as per your straw man argument that says Christians believe. Apparently you’re too stupid to note the difference.
Strike three and you’re out!!
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Bwahahaha, acting as your own cheerleader?
Well, considering that the whole theology of original sin argues everyone is born a sinner, when a child is punished for being a “sinner”, your god is punishing him/her for something they didn’t actually do.
And apparently it still hasn’t sunk in that punishing children is evil, period, not matter they might have done or will do. Apparently, you’re too stupid and brainwashed to note this.
How many wickets have you lost now?
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Well look, now britney thinks he is al-lat, deciding what is evil and what isn’t.
Hmm, there is a word for that starting with sh….
The only thing clear is that you have absolutely no idea of Christian doctrine. Because Christians simply don’t believe that babies are punished for something they didn’t do. And your too pig headed to admit your error.
Strike five
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Well look, Cerbie is trying to distract again with his woeful ignorance. Don’t you remember your girlfriend Coco getting embarrassed about Al-lat?
Lol, once again, you’re the one who said that babies are evil. I refuted this nonsense by showing why this is not true and is just another example of how bankrupt Christian doctrine really is.
Um, strikes end at three, by the way…
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While your at it, when does a child cease being a child? Age 15 according to shariah or puberty.
Ignoring then that ive just demonstrated muhammad had sex with a child, let’s say an 14 year old who hasn’t reached Baligh kills someone else. Are they a sinner? Or would punishing them be “evil” according to imam Britney al-lat?
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Lol!! That’s a question for you to answer silly! When does the age of accountability start, according to the Bible?
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Is it “post pubescence”? When is that? 😉
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“now britney thinks he is al-lat”
“The two most common etymologies in the scholarship today are that it derives from the root HWY, meaning “to blow” (which would be linked with YHWH’s storm-deity profile, although there are issues with this), or it is not from a verbal root at all, but derives from the place name YHW associated with the Shasu and mentioned in some 13th and 14th century BCE Egyptian texts. ”
now let me teach u basic arabic
laaatun and ilaahun are two different words
al-laaaat
u see , testicle worshipper?
now explain
the father (who) is what
the sperm (who) is what
the ghost (who) is what
MY LEFT testicle is 1 BEING
the triune god consists of father which is a LESSER WHAT , than the triune what.
the ghost is a LESSER what, then the triune what.
the son is a LESSER what, then the triune what
how is yhwhs one being different than my left testicle?
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Ouch!
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u know, if u wanna play “hey that sounds like x” lol u will end up wrecking yhwh!
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Please answer the question.
If a 14 year old who hasn’t reached puberty commits murder, are they a sinner and evil?
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Please deal with the topic and stop trying to deflect. I get it. This is the best you can do when confronted with the evil of your religion, but deflections will not help your case.
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Please answer the question.
You believe in an “age of accountability”.
You said it was “evil” to describe a child as a sinner.
So, if a child commits murder before the age of accountability, will they be in hell? Or do they get a free pass?
If you continue to not answer it proves the moral insufficiency of your god, does it not?
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LOL!! So am I to assume that you don’t believe in an age of accountability? Well, that’s too bad because the Bible does! See Isaiah and the section on Immanuel.
Please try to focus and stay on topic. We are talking about your religion’s views on children and hell. And so far, you have been running around in circles. Of course, I know why. Deflecting is all you can do when you know the awful truth about your evil god.
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It hurts being caught out creating straw men, doesn’t it?
Now, please answer the question. Is a murdering child a sinner and bound for hell? Or does answering this question demonstrate he moral insufficiency of you fake god?
And secondly, please show me the biblical age of accountability that you believe is cited in Isaiah.
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It hurts being shown how evil your religion is, doesn’t it?
Now, please stop trying to deflect. And I actually already answered the question. A child is not held accountable, you dolt. Not unless he has reached the age of understanding. This is the view of both Judaism and Islam, but evidently not Christianity. I know you realize the conundrum, and that is why you are dancing like a pathetic apologist.
Isaiah 7:15 mentions Immanuel reaching the age of being able to tell between right and wrong. It doesn’t say what that age is, which again, is a short-coming of your Bible. What else can we expect from a man-made book? So again, there IS an age of accountability. Your theologians seem to think it is somewhere around age 3 (see Barnes’ Notes for example), but this seems to be just a bunch of speculation. They are hard-pressed to determine the age but because the Bible does not give a specific age, they are forced to speculate.
So now that I have embarrassed you further, can you please deal with the issue at hand? Maybe you should start by clarifying your position. Do babies that die in infancy (or in the womb) go to hell? Is it only the “elect” babies that get saved or all babies?
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Oh and you might want to tell your girlfriend Coco that punishing children for something they WOULD have done in the future (but didn’t actually do) is evil and wrong. You know, since you are the one harping about “straw men” arguments. 😜😜
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Let’s make things worse for Cerbie. Being cornered sucks, doesn’t it?
The Nicene Creed states the need for a baptism in order to be saved and it quotes from the NT:
“I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins (Ephesians 4:5; Galatians 3:27; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Colossians 2:12-13; Acts 22:16)”
http://stcyril.us/join-us/our-statement-of-faith-the-nicene-creed/
In explaining the importance of baptism, the above source states;
“Our Savior says: Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5). Baptism, therefore, is necessary for every man who enters the Church. Only through Baptism can infants be cleansed of Original Sin and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. They are baptized according to the Lord’s words: Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 19:14); on the basis of Apostolic Tradition, and according to the faith of their parents and godparents.”
Now, even if it could be established that a baby is a “sinner” (which is of course ludicrous), there is still the question of babies that die in the womb and are stillborn. They never committed any sins because they were never even born, let alone have the chance for baptism. So what happens to them?
Let’s see if Cerbie will finally deal with the topic instead of dancing like his girlfriend Coco.
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You do know that a large portion of the church reject infant baptism, right? So perhaps take your “cornering” to a Roman…
Now, please answer the question you seem desperate to avoid with all manner of red herrings. If a 14 year old kills someone, will they be punished?
Don’t let onensimple question destroy the morality of your fake god
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LOL!! So still not dealing with the topic, eh? I know, I know. It’s a difficult thing to confront the evil in your religion, but there it is nevertheless.
Define “large portion”. And why was baptism included in the Nicene Creed? And by the way, the other nutjob creed is the Westminster Creed, which is followed by Protestants. It also confirms that non-elected infants are not saved, so your problem still remains. You can play this game all you want, but the evil of your religion will not go away.
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“Why would a supposedly “evil” and “sinful” child exhibit such behaviour”
Because original sin doesn’t state this LOL!!
Man, you’ve seriously got no idea of what you are even trying to refute.
Strike four!!
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Lol!! You’re the one who said babies are sinners, dummy!
Maybe you should read my article. I handle all the nonsense definitions and all the varying interpretations. We know how you crosstians work. You idiots cannot agree among each other what your religion even teaches! And lookie here! Going in circles and giving vague answers!
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i’ll ask u again, can you tell me how the triune being is different than a goats left testicle ?????
every time u see the behind of a goat, are u reminded of trinity ?
i hope i have helped u give analogy for triune being .
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“”You said it was “evil” to describe a child as a sinner.””
is the anger of a child like he has commited murder ? is the suckling of a baby like he has commited adultery ? is the theft of a child like he has commited banditry ?
is a child CONDEMNED in the “righteous” eyes of god ???
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i want to know what sins are 0-5 year old does.
list them :
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Anger
Jealousy
Hitting
Disobedience
Biting
Lieing
…shall I go on…
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All things that a baby doesn’t understand.
Stupidity
Idiocy
Bigotry
Lying
Unattractive to women
…All things that Cerbie is guilty of. Shall I go on…
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okay, since these are sins and god is “righteous” does that mean because of ANY “sin” from your list, god can DAMN 0-5 year old ?
how do we go about telling a 2 year old to recognise his “sins” when child does not know WTF sin is ?
let me ask, do you use violence for disciplinary purposes up on 2 year old “hitting” child ?
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You see? It’s STILL not sinking in that we’re talking about a CHILD who doesn’t know any better!
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can u also tell me how yhwhs one being is different than my left ball ? i honestly like to know because i think i have found a match for the triune being .
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since hundreds of neurons are still unconnected in 0-5 year old brain, can u explain something .
one teaches the child to say “fuck u ”
now the child repeats those words
in your gods “justice” is the child liable for being burnt in hell even though he has unconnected neurons ?
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“You see? It’s STILL not sinking in that we’re talking about a CHILD who doesn’t know any better!”
if u tell people that god is pissed at you for poping out of a womb, then what would we expect?
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yhwh triune being (EXTERNAL ONE)
persons (internal ONES)
testicle one being (external one)
sperm (internal ones)
how is the triune being different than my LEFT testicle ?
and can christian tell me if a goat is greater than triune being because a goat does not need OTHER PERSONS TO EXIST FOR ITS EXISTENCE!!!!!!!!!
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i have SINCERE questions to the testicle worshippers
DO U TELL UR NEW BORN INFANT THE FOLLOWING
“god is PISSED at you for coming out of womb ” ?
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“So, if a child commits murder before the age of accountability, will they be in hell? Or do they get a free pass?”
lol, so a 5 year old stabs someone . lets assume this happens. now, JUSTICE require the following question
did that 5 year old even process what he was doing . say u give him loaded gun and he pulls the trigger, JUSTICE requires the following question
did that child even PROCESS what the hell he just pulled ?
now i have MORE sincere questions to the testicle worshippers
since u see child a sinner , do you tell him god is PISSED at him for being angry, liar , thief and do you tell him u probably have ADULTEROUS thoughts about your mama?
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It seems to Christians, there is only a false dichotomy and nothing else. Either the child is a sinner or he is not. There is no middle ground, where they would consider such things as did the child even understand what he did?
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paulus’ list :
Anger
Jealousy
Hitting
Disobedience
Biting
Lieing
…shall I go on…
/////////////////
can u list anything u think the child does is good ?
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Yes, there would also be many
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Many what? Even if a child commits “sins”, does your god take into account that this is a child who doesn’t understand right and wrong?
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“Yes, there would also be many”
where does that good doing come from ? is it menstrual rags? is it good from its sinful nature ?
what is the origin of the “also be many ” ?
please tell me more. i am all ears
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quote :
That children are innocents, who don’t know the difference in good and evil, was even recognized in the Bible. When the Israelites rebelled upon hearing the report of the spies whom Moses had sent ahead to Canaan, Yahweh condemned them to wander in the wilderness for 40 years until all of the adults were dead, but the children were exempted from this Yahwistic curse. In referring back to this event years later, when the Israelites were preparing to enter Canaan, Moses said that the children were spared because of their innocence.
Deuteronomy 1:34 When Yahweh heard what you said, he was angry and solemnly swore: 35 “Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers, 36 except Caleb son of Jephunneh. He will see it, and I will give him and his descendants the land he set his feet on, because he followed Yahweh wholeheartedly.” 37 Because of you Yahweh became angry with me also and said, “You shall not enter it, either. 38 But your assistant, Joshua son of Nun, will enter it. Encourage him, because he will lead Israel to inherit it. 39 And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad–they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.”
Here is biblical recognition that children are innocents, who don’t know the difference in good and evil…..
//////
you said “THERE WOULD also be many”
are you saying the child NATURALLY chooses good because it is INBUILT in him ? so if the child does not KNOW what is RIGHT AND WRONG, then IT MUST MEAN that it is a NATURAL thing for him to do (CHOOSE GOOD), RIGHT?
so when a child is sharing (like faiz said that his daughter SHared food), but since they don’t know WRONG from right, does that mean that his daughter did something from her NATURE ?
when she saw two PARENTS fight , did it trigger the nature ?
so if yes, then natural HAS INBUILT “good reactors” ?
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It’s called common grace- a very clear concept. Perhaps you should google it? It may help you stop shooting down those straw men you create. It may even help your left testicle recognise its companion next to it 😜😜
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LOL, yes! Another made up concept that crosstians have invented to explain the contradictions and evil of their religion. 😜😜
Isn’t it amazing how after all this time, Cerbie still has not dealt with the topic at hand? Of course, the reason is clear. And try as he might to dance around the issue, the dancing itself is proof of how utterly bereft of reason the Christian religion is.
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you are pathetic , u know that. you even had my balls in your mind (2 of them)
so when a child does good , that is something your god is doing ? what is the child graced with ? a good nature ? a good heart? what? is it menstrual rags ? is it clean rags? what is it ? you telling me to google means nothing to me. and by the way,
are 3 persons 1 thing?
does that mean the threeness has been LOST to 1 thing ? or are three persons INSIDE one thing ?
so is your triune being like my left testicle ?
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who graced the child with doing “sins” ? satan created those deeds?
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god said he created everything and it was “VERY GOOD”
this means it would be INBUILT. there is no idea of “common grace”
thats why the prophets say “love god with all your heart” meaning no idea of “common grace”
this is unbiblical.
are you telling me if god removed his “common grace” from babies , they would be suckling and thinking about FORNICATION with their mothers?
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If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
again , “you MUST rule over it”
no mention of some PAGAN “holy spirit”
no mention of “common grace”
it seems to connect back to GOD made everything and it was “very good”
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” And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad”
do you believe that the children here are the same children as the amalekite children or do you believe “common grace” bullshit was REMOVED from them and those children became idolaters , murderers , fornicators ….?
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“It seems to Christians, there is only a false dichotomy and nothing else. Either the child is a sinner or he is not. There is no middle ground, where they would consider such things as did the child even understand what he did?”
paul was a filthy sinner. he lived a life of sin. so what he did was that he thought even children are sinners. he was projecting all his filth on to things which knew no sin. he bascially taught christians to tell their children that ballway is PISSED at children for being BORN. he clearly was suffering from sinful ways. he even contemplated suicide to release himself from his sinful body. its all projectionism bro faiz.
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Imam Britney al-lat
What is obvious is how desperate you are to create straw men and red herrings. I’ve simply asked you to show me three things now, based on your own assertions. You’ve failed with each.
When you start complaining that everyone else is being vague it’s a sure indication that you’ve brought shame to your religion and are now trying to save face.
What is clear is that your Islamic concept of “age of accountability” being 15 or puberty creates huge moral issues. Geez, you think a 6 year old is ready for marriage but a 14 year old doesn’t know right or wrong. Talk about backwards!!
So, please answer- does a 14 year old who kills someone get sent to hell or be punished? Perhaps imam stew al-lat or Ibn testicle tony can help you out…
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Cerbie the Gentile dog of hell, servant of the old man in the sky,
What is obvious is how desperate you are to avoid dealing with the topic. I have give you proof from your own scripture, the statements of your theologians and common sense, but you still want to dance.
What is clear is that you want to deflect to Islam because you want to try to level the playing field. But even then, there is a HUGE difference in punishing a 15 year old and a toddler, unless of course, you are a nutjob crosstian.
So please – deal with the topic at hand. Does your religion believe that some infants go to hell? I think you’re on your own on this one. Your girlfriend and fellow servant of the old man in the sky took a whack at this and failed miserably.
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Ah who am I kidding? Guys, I think we can nip this in the bud as well. Whenever Cerbie is unable or unwilling to answer a difficult question due to his dishonesty and cowardice, he will keep going in circles and refuse to deal with the topic. So, in the absence of a clear answer from Cerbie, we can conclude that his evil religion believes that babies can go to hell. So to use the terminology of the video I posted earlier, the crosstian god is evidently a d**k (mind the language, but it does capture the gross evil of a being who would burn infants in hell).
So how many issues is that now that Cerbie has refused to engage? Let’s see…Numbers 18:31 and the “taph”…the age of “post pubescence”…babies in hell…hmm…what else? I know there are more.
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Guys, I have added a new page titled “Cerbie’s List of Nightmares and Unanswered Questions/Issues” (I know, it needs a better title), where we can catalog all the questions about Christianity that the coward Cerbie has avoided answering. You can see it by clicking on the link at the top of the homepage: https://quranandbibleblog.wordpress.com/cerbies-list-of-nightmares-and-unanswered-questions-issues/
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hey crosstians , CAN U LIST ALL THE things 0-5 year old does is good
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
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I can get them started.
1. Altruism
2. Helpfulness
3. Genuine concern for another’s well-being
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notice how paulus was quick to list the “negatives” ? notice he still has not replied to this question ? this makes me wonder, this guy must be really evil man.
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I can get them started.
1. Altruism
2. Helpfulness
3. Genuine concern for another’s well-being
////////
hey crosstians, do you believe this ? is a child helping his mum “menstrual rags” ?
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paulus’ arse goes on fire and he snaps .
click the link .
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the religion on christianity is filthy . we are talking about CHILDREN here people . children. children . these criminals and sinful swines have no problem seeing children as MONSTERS.
what more can one say when ur belief is that the infant is evil ? what can i say ?
i found a perfect match for the triune being and no crosstian is willing to agree. i have helped them teach a NEW analogy and they should be thanking me, but none of the said “thank you”
i feel disappointed .
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Hmm more lies…
Saying a child has a sinful nature, by consequence of progeny of Adam, is different to Ibn Testicle Tony’s analysis above.
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Hmm, more crazy talk from the nutjob servant of the old man in the sky…
You still can’t seem to get it through your head. We are talking about CHILDREN. They’re innocent. Why is that so difficult to understand?
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Ahem…and you’re the one who harped about those “sinful” little babies. Anger, biting…and so on? What little monsters, huh?
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If you say so, but that’s your daughter you are calling a monster.
I’m calling her a descendant of Adam, inheriting a sinful nature, but by the common grace of God not as sinful as she could be (especially having a “ahem” role model like you!) and still capable of doing supreme good, valued by a loving God.
Unfortunately with Muhammad as her exemplar things won’t seem so great…
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LOL!! Actually, I call her my little princess. I call your god a monster.
You harped about all the horrible “sins” that babies commit. But hey, who’s to blame them, right? I mean at least they don’t have to have your fake, sinful savior as a “ahem” role model! You know that sinful savior who lied, who destroyed other’s property, who was disrespectful to his mother…shall I go on? 😉
So your religion maintains that babies have a “sinful” nature, and yet by some miracle, they are still capable of doing good? DING! DING! DING! And we see yet ANOTHER inconsistency in the christian religion!
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I wonder what Cerbie’s sinful savior was like when he was a child. We already know he was a sinner as an adult, so we can only imagine what kind of evil baby he was! Did he lie, bite, get angry, be disobedient and disrespectful to his mother?
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Thank God there is no child who has to look up to our Gentile dog Cerbie as a “ahem” role model! Kudos to the women of the land of the Aborigines for having a good screening process when choosing potential marriage partners! LOL!!
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i never even connected the analogy to anything i said about original sin, child , or nature. do you agree with my analogy and is your gods oneness like the oneness of a goats left testicle ?
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“I’m calling her a descendant of Adam, inheriting a sinful nature, but by the common grace of God not as sinful as she could be (especially having a “ahem” role model like you!) and still capable of doing supreme good, valued by a loving God.”
NONE of this “common grace” crap exists in ot. hey paulus, did a new born “inheriting sinful nature” a good thing or bad thing ? in your gods eyes is it a BAD thing ? if it is a bad thing does the new born go to hell because of it ?
“common grace” ? notice your sick words “NOT AS SINFUL AS ….” SO A child does have sins ?
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Hmm, nice false dichotomy there imam britney al-lat, lord over allah.
I guess that is just more evidence that you don’t understand what the doctrine of original sin actually teaches. Thank you for proving my point yet again.
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Hmm, actually the false dichotomy was already given by you: either babies are sinful or they are good. There is no middle ground. No wonder you won’t answer the question of whether babies burn in hell. I get it, though. It is an uncomfortable question.
I guess this is just more evidence that you are ashamed of your god and your religion. Thank you for proving my point yet again.
P.S. I don’t think you quite understand original sin. As we have seen in the past, you tend to have views on important doctrines that deviate from your church. Modernism has clouded your judgement, it seems.
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“Now, even if it could be established that a baby is a “sinner” (which is of course ludicrous), there is still the question of babies that die in the womb and are stillborn. They never committed any sins because they were never even born, let alone have the chance for baptism. So what happens to them?“
Now you’re just contradicting the prophet David and the Psalms, which the Koran affirms.
You truly are imam Britney al-lat. god over Allah
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LOL!! More deflections! I already dealt with the misquotation of the Psalms in my article. Read it and educate yourself! Now, are you saying that even a baby in the womb will not be saved? Is that because of original sin, a “sin” that the baby…come on, say it with me…did not actually commit? 😉
Once again, will you deal with the issue?
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What issue? That you clearly have no idea what original sin actually is? Or how Christians understand soteriology? Yes, I’ve fully dealt with that issue.
You entire argument rested on a straw man. And you still insist that Christians apparently believe that babies are punished for things they didn’t do even after correction.
You really are imam britney al-lat, lord over Allah
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hey paulus.
if the 3 ARE 1, then isn’t threeNESS lost to oneness?
tom is garry
jim is garry
hillary is garry
do you see how the threeness is lost to gary/oneness?
do you see what i mean ?
isn’t it better to say that 3 are IN one or 3 parts that make up 1 ?
so do you agree that yhwhs ONENESS is identical to a goats left testicle ?
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Still stalling? Why is it so difficult to answer a simple question: Do babies that die in infancy (or in the womb) go to hell? Is it only the “elect” babies that get saved or all babies?
Your entire dance routine rests on your cowardice and dishonesty. Look, we both know the answer to the above question. Of course, the answer is yes. Babies will go to hell, according to your evil god. I know you are trying to distract from this abhorrent doctrine, but I gave you the chance to be a man and answer the question honestly.
As for original sin, I already exposed your ineptitude. All humans are held responsible for inheriting the sin of Adam and Eve. They are born with a
sinful nature, so it is not something they can control. The matter becomes more egregious when we are dealing with human children and babies. Your god sees nothing wrong with condemning a baby to hell for an inherited nature. Ergo, your god condemns babies for a sin they never committed. And again, it was your girlfriend Coco who suggested that his god has “moral reason” to punish an infant because he knows the “future”. Ergo, according to Coco, your god would punish an infant for something he/she WOULD have done but did not actually do. Get it now?
You really are Cerbie, the Gentile dog of hell and servant of the sky lord El.
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Hey Cerbie, did you see your wall of shame? You got quite a list of unanswered questions!
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“I’m calling her a descendant of Adam, inheriting a sinful nature…”
in other words his poughter god SEEEEEEEEES the child as DEFECTED item. because. it . has. sinful. nature. it is “born DEFECTED”
he is now covering up his crap with the words “common grace”
but he is hiding his ROTTEN THOUGHT!
just take note of that. the rotten THOUGHT about the child still exists. but he is covering it up with his crosstian invented bs “common grace”
in his eyes the child is not PURE. is not INNOCENT. is not free from sin.
in yahs eyes the child is DEFECTED .
NOTICE also how whatever the child will do post puberty , the crosstian APPLIES it to him (the child) BEING born ?
these people are evil . they are sick. they are satanic. wtf are the authorities doing ? how many cases of christian CHILD abuse has gone UNNOTICED ?
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paulus’ list :
Anger
Jealousy
Hitting
Disobedience
Biting
Lieing
…shall I go on…
////
paulus, who creates these actions and thoughts? what is the source for the child doing the list above? . i am interested to know because so far we know that child does not know what the hell it is doing .
when the child (0-5) does the above , are you saying it is ACTING out its TRUE nature ?
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“Now, are you saying that even a baby in the womb will not be saved? Is that because of original sin, a “sin” that the baby…come on, say it with me…did not actually commit? 😉”
that he is taking time to answer that question should tell you what a sick f–k he is .
look, i will answer . a baby who dies in ANYWAY will be going to HEAVEN direct.
see, it was easy for me to answer.
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“but by the common grace of God not as sinful as she could be (especially having a “ahem” role model like you!”
1. views a child as SINFUL.
christian women who nurse their children view them as SINFUL
in your pagan gods eyes is the child SINFUL and does one of its sins deserve eternal torture in hell ?
child does not know what wrong and right is.
is your god guilty of creating a nature or are there OTHER powers besides yhwh which CREATE sin nature ?
it is like u seem to be arguing that their are two FORCES at work
one force which is evil CREATES the childs being and “gods grace” which is a PATHETIC external force which is in BATTLE trying to save the CHILD FROM ITS nature !
so tell me, how many creators are there? where did the EVIL nature come from? according to you, the CHILD is born a sinner .
so who made it BORN a sinner ?
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there you go.
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wtf are the authorities doing, we have human beings who consider CHILDREN as SINFUL. what are the authorities in these countries doing ?
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Ibn testicle tony
Since imam Britney al-lat, lord of Allah won’t answer a simple question, it now turns to you to stop bringing this shame to your religion.
According to your religion, the age of accountability is 15 for people not yet reached puberty.
If a 14 year old murders another person, is that 14 year old a sinner or still innocent?
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Sky lord El, since your servant Cerbie won’t defend your honor by answering a simple question, it now turns to you to stop bring this shame to your religion.
According to your religion, babies are born with a sinful nature and are considered “sinners”.
Will these infants burn in hell if they die before reaching the age of accountability?
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Hi ibn testicle tony/Edward
Are you able to answer the question ?
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Hi servant of the sky lord
Are you able to answer the question? Do babies burn in your god’s hell?
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Let’s wait and see if ibn testicle tony will answer the question you’ve been dodging for days now?
Will the 14 year old be a sinner (ergo demolishing your entire criticism of Christianity)…
Or will the 14 year old still be innocent (ergo demolishing the possibility of Allah being just and therefore god)
I’m so excited for the outcome!!
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Let’s wait and see if Cerbie’s girlfriend or even El lord of the sky will answer the question you’ve been dodging for days now?
Will babies burn in hell?
And lookie here! LOL!!! Cerbie has unwittingly revealed the reason he will NOT answer the question. It was just as I said it was. Cerbie is desperate to level the playing the field!
Unfortunately, for you Cerbie, this pathetic attempt fails miserably. But your diseased mind cannot see the difference in punishing a 14 year old and a baby. There is a major difference!
So maybe your sky lord will drop by and be honest enough to answer. I know he’s 2000 years late, but you never know. I’m so excited for the outcome!!
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notice how the testicle /yah worshipper completely avoids answering any questions which were asked ? what are the authorities doing? I hope they are reading what this testicle worshipper is saying. these ppl are SICK . They believe that a mew born is damaged from BIRTH, what horrible and evil thought.
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“Unfortunately, for you Cerbie, this pathetic attempt fails miserably. But your diseased mind cannot see the difference in punishing a 14 year old and a baby. There is a major difference!”
“ibn testicle” ? where did paulus come from ? he came from a testicle too. the only difference is that he thinks the content of it is DEFECTED. now WHO corrupted it ? who corrupted it to such an extent that EVEN a child should SAVE itself from being a child ?
they VIEW AN INFANT as DEFECTED !
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@ Paulus
No one is answering your question because instead of answering directly what your stance is you deflect and answer a question with a question. So it’s not “dodging” it’s not responding to a deflection
The fact that you guy never answer directly is proof of deceit and falsehood, the truth is clear and direct. The contention brought is Christianity believes that God judges all according to sin and that every person is born with sin in them. A person who doesn’t worship Jesus, “dies on sin” according to Christianity, A child cannot accept Jesus whether in the womb or alive so naturally, according to Christians, they have to go to Hell because of “God’s justice” when it comes to sin. If this is not the case then please explain what it is without philosophical fluff.
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There it is in clear words. Now will Cerbie and the other crosstian nutjobs work up the courage to answer the question?
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Hello imam stew al-Lat
That was not the contention at all. As first shown by myself, imam britney al-lat was arguing that babies were punished for something they didn’t do.
I haven’t given my stance because it hasn’t been relevant to the point I’m making, which was the straw men attacks on Christ and the church.
Now, of course this was all based on imam britney al-lat’s contention that punishing a child was evil. However, the question I posed was directly related to that contention, for since Islam has the age of accountability at 15, what happens to a 14 year old who commits murder? The answer you all won’t give is very problematic for your whole argumentation, which is why it has remained unanswered.
So perhaps you will answer for me imam stew al-lat?
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Hello Cerbie servant of El,
Actually, I was arguing that babies are punished despite the fact that they are babies. The other part, being punished for something they didn’t do, was an extension of this, and your girlfriend Coco is the one who keeps saying that your god has “moral reason” to punish babies for their future sins.
You haven’t given your stance because you are embarrassed and ashamed of the truth. That is why you are desperately deflecting to other issues.
The questin you posed was a deflection, not to mention a fallacy of false equivalence. So please, engage with the issue. I mean it has already been established, despite your deflections, that babies will be punished in your dark god’s hell, but you can at least salvage whatever little dignity you and your religion have left by being honest about it.
So perhaps you will answer now?
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Not at all.
I actually agree with you that there is a difference between a child and a 14 year old. But I’m the one who believes the age of accountability is 15. So in actuality, your distinction between them only makes you contra your deen. It appears you are more western than you like.
But of course, one little question of mine has derailed your entire critique, which is why it remains unanswered. C’mon imam britney al-lat, just have a go…
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On what basis? Present your evidence from the Bible. Sola scriptura, remember?
And again, will babies burn in hell? Yes or no?
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Are you saying that 15 is also the age of “post pubescence”?
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Should be I’m “not” the one who believes ina and age of accountability being 15
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What’s the matter, Cerbie? Nervous? Can’t type well?
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Probably. I get nervous watching muhammadans squirm in shame…
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BWHAHAHAHAHA!! I love watching crosstians avoid the evil of their religion and then accuse other’s of “squirming”! LOL!!
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“But your diseased mind cannot see the difference in punishing a 14 year old and a baby.“
Is that a Freudian slip? So you would punish a 14 year old that has no reached the age of accountability? How evil of you!!
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Was THAT a Freudian slip? Are you saying babies will burn in hell? There it is, folks! It’s confirmed. Cerbie’s religion teaches that babies can and will burn in hell! What an evil religion!
Now as for your desperate attempts at false equivalency, punishing a 14 year old, even if it was done, would not be even remotely similar to punishing a baby. Let me illustrate this with real life examples. In the land of the Aborigines, Cerbie’s homeland and allegedly the “greatest country in the world”, children as young as 10 can be charged for crimes!
“In all Australian states and territories, the age at which a child becomes criminally responsible is set at 10 years old.”
“From 10 years of age children in Australia can be charged by police, tried in our courts and imprisoned in detention facilitates, in some cases for life.”
“In June 2015 Amnesty International published a report calling on the Australian government to raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility nationally from its current position of 10 years old, consistent with the UN’s stance that 12 years old is “the lowest internationally acceptable minimum age of criminal responsibility”.”
“Australia stands apart from many international jurisdictions that set the minimum age of criminal responsibility at 12 years old or above, including Canada, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Italy, Norway, and Spain.”
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/commentisfree/2016/aug/01/how-young-is-too-young-charged-tried-and-imprisoned-at-the-age-of-10
Notice that other countries and the UN have set 12 as the minimum age of criminal responsibility. Australia has it at age 10. But even the Australians know better than to punish a child younger than 10 let alone a BABY! Cerbie is truly an evil person!
But at least we have made progress on this issue, finally. We can confirm, despite Cerbie’s best attempts to deflect, that Christianity believes in the eternal torment of some babies. You might want to notify your fellow nutjob and girlfriend Coco though, Cerbie. She doesn’t seem to be aware or is in severe denial. You need to be there for your girlfriend and give her the support that she needs.
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Well here we have it folks, imam britney al-lat would punish a child below the age of accountability thereby refuting his own argument that such is evil since DING DING DING they are below accountability! (What a shame I haven’t even given my own personal opinion on this topic, ey. Why not just fabricate another claim like your exemplar)
And look at him complaining about the age of conviction in Australia! When he says with a straight face that marrying a 6 year old is holy and raping a 9 year old is Allah’s will.
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Well here we have it folks, Cerbie is STILL desperately trying to make punishing a 14 year old, who is actually considered morally responsible by the majority of modern countries, equivalent to punishing a baby in hellfire for eternity. Ding! Ding! Ding!
Who said a 14 year old is below the age of accountability? Is that the Biblical standard?
Also, I didn’t say I support Australia’s laws. I was merely pointing out that even these savages don’t consider punishing a BABY as even an option! But Cerbie’s god does. What an evil religion!
LOL!! And yes, it shows the hypocrisy of western countries and their inconsistent application of laws. How is a 10 year old morally responsible for criminal actions, yet he cannot:
1. Vote.
2. Get married.
3. Drive a car.
4. Get a job.
5. Enlist in the army.
6. Smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol.
Hmmm….
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@ Paulus
Okay, so you agree with Islam that there’s an age of accountability. (Which we also agree that if puberty hasn’t come 15 is the cutoff btw). So just so we’re clear you’re saying if a 6-year-old Hindu girl in India died she would go to heaven right?
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Queue Jeopardy theme…
Will Cerbie answer? tune in to the exciting next episode of “Horibble Christian Ideas” to find out!
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The suspense is building as Cerbie still refuses to answer the “burning” question (get it? 😉 ): will babies burn in the christian god’s hell?
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My comment above missed a word, “not”.
As in, I’m “not” the one who believes the age of accountability is 15.
Thank you imam stew for confirming this for imam Britney. (“Who said a 14 year old is below the age of accountability?”- imam britney)
Now, can you answer the question?
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STILL not answering the question? Will babies burn in your god’s hell? It’s really quite simple: yes or no?
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Cerbie, I asked if 14 is below the age of accountability according to the Bible. You have been avoiding age related questions about your bible for months now. You must truly be ashamed of your so-called “scripture”!
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Tell you what imam stew al-lay. I’ll answer your question if you answer the one I’ve been asking for days. Fair enough?
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”
I actually agree with you that there is a difference between a child and a 14 year old.”
is a 0-5 year old sinful ? if yes, why is there a difference ?
piece of slimey scum, like you said ,”not as sinful as they could be”
SIN IS SIN, regardless of quantity . isn’t this the bs crosstians peddle?
so tell me slimey scum, (worshipper of yah who has oneness like my testicle) , what is the difference between child and 14 year old , both are sinful , according to you .
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LOL!! How is that “fair”? The topic is whether your god will burn babies in hell. You haven’t answered this question ever since you worked up the courage to come back and stop lurking in the shadows.
So, answer the question. Fair enough?
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Let’s wait and see what imam stew al-lat has to say, shall we.
Geez, who knew one little question would derail your whole argument. I guess that’s the risk you run when your critique isn’t applied consistently.
I’m very happy to give my own view on this. It’s hilarious you avoid one question for days on end. We all know why, right 😜😜 #gotcha
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LOL!! So still not answering?
Geez, who knew one little question would make you so uncomfortable and desperate to stall? And how exactly does this false equivalency “derail” my argument? Do babies burn in your evil god’s hell? What does that have to do with a 14 year old being punished for a crime in a court of law?
It’s hilarious you avoid this question for days on end, while claiming to be “happy” to give your “view” on it! We all know why, right 😜😜 #gotcha.
So again, do babies in your god’s hell? I’m waiting….
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Spelling errors? You must be nervous 😜
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What spelling errors? You mean the apostrophe in the word “others”? We all make mistakes, but some of us make them over and over again, especially when nervous, eh Cerbie? 😜 Do babies burn in your god’s hell? Don’t get distracted now! 😉
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look, stop pissing about and tell it as it is. babies are sinful and are born defected and if they are not baptised , they will burn in hell, right ?
i say , they go DIRECT to heaven and enthroned . how about you, what do you believe ?
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Lol, the crosstian has to stall. Who can blame him? I would be ashamed too if my religion condemned innocent babies to hell.
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Another straw man. You sound more like an atheist every day imam al lat
No tony, have another guess.
Look,all you need to do is answer my question and I would happily give my own view.
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Look, all you need to do is answer the question posed on this thread and stop deflecting. It’s really that simple. Asking a question in response to a question and then holding your answer hostage until someone answers your question is pathetic. So, once again: do babies burn in your god’s hell? I already know the answer, and I will be posting some more information soon inshaAllah to further expose the garbage that is Christianity. But until then, why don’t you try to salvage what’s left of your dignity and answer the question?
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@ Paulus
Logic dictates when someone asks a question you can’t say their avoiding by not answering their question and posing your own in an attempt to “win” (you do this a lot and its considered weak argumentation) Again if you believe something is the truth you should be direct and not deceptive. Same goes with how you almost never use text to back up your beliefs just your own personal logic.
In the scenario, you’ve created where a 14-year-old who hasn’t reached puberty and kills somebody then there’s no sin on his scale.
It was narrated from Aishah that:
the Messenger of Allah said. “The Pen has been lifted from three: from the sleeping person until he awakens, from the minor until he grows up, and from the insane person until he comes to his senses.”In his narration, (one of the narrators Abu Bakr (Ibn Abu Shaibah) said: “And from the afflicted person, unit he recovers”
https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/17/1
Ali also said the same
https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/17/1
This does not mean the judge cannot enact a punishment on the child. The child just isn’t subject to capital punishment (pretty much like how secular law doesn’t have the death penalty for people under 18).
However, this scenario is pretty unlikely because you’re stating this 14-year-old according to our calendar which is a few months before the Gregorian:
1. Doesn’t have facial, armpit or pubic hair
2. Sexual desire
3. A wet dream
4. Undescended testicles (or menstruation if female)
5. Deepening voice
Just up and commits a murder one day? It’s just not that common of a situation is almost a “what if” scenario.
But anyways now that I’ve answered your question do you believe a 6-year-old Hindu girl will go to Hell?
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Thanks Stew.
What you have effectively demonstrated is that Allah is by definition unable to be God. I appreciate your honesty.
Now, to finally answer the question asked of me by Stew…
Answer- “I don’t know.”
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“What you have effectively demonstrated is that Allah is by definition unable to be God. I appreciate your honesty.”
you pathetic crosstian. in your pagan beliefs , all the child needs to do is believe that yhwh raped jesus with the act of murder and then wala, the child, who is UNHOLY will enter heaven. HOW is it just for “HOLY” god to put an UNHOLY child/murderer into heaven ? how ? that would be the height of INJUSTICE, unholy is being let in heaven even though god is JUST ?
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”
What you have effectively demonstrated is that Allah is by definition unable to be God”
since i have demonstrated that your god BREAKS all rules of punishment and justice and then BREAKS ANOTHER rule of JUSTICE, he lets u in HEAVEN, then that is 3 rules BROKEN!
i have EFFECTIVELY demonstrated that the one being/testicle you worship cannot be god .
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“God and that unless they repent of their rebellion and turn to Jesus /one person who has oneness like one goat…”
i wonder if christian brain suffers from cognitive dissonance. they tell non-believers to sincerely repent while at the same time they tell people that if repentance was good enough, god wouldn’t have come down and killed himself like willing self abuser.
they also say that human abilities are “menstrual rags” because humans are “born in sin” and even children are “sinful”
so even if they are filled with “holy spirit” they will still sin and give shitty repentance to their god.
james white in a debate said, “even my repentance isn’t good enough”
okay, so this logically means that god is UNJUST for letting unholy christians in heaven!
barryAugust 17, 2018 at 1:16 PM
I agree, especially about James White, I heard the same sentiment from John MacArthur and other fundies. If our repentance isn’t good enough, then when god tells us to repent, he is telling us to do something he won’t be satisfied with. The sad truth is that inerrantists are forced into such absurd doctrinal mazes by trying to make contradictory biblical assertions harmonize.
I like your point about God letting unholy Christians into heaven. If Christians were correct that our sin natures need to be eradicated before we will be fit for heaven, they will be forced into crass speculation to explain how two sinners, equally infected with original sin, made it to heaven, when the bible provides no evidence that they became sinless beforehand: Enoch and Elijah.
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QUOTE :
Answer- “I don’t know.”
what evil heart have ye!
do you see how your religion shapes your thinking ?
quote :
And ironically, Rabbi, that is exactly what Christians REALLY believe when they are not trying to convert people, but living their life in a cycle of sin and repentance. How many times have we seen the bumper sticker that reads, “Christians are not Perfect, just Forgiven”?
This is the catch-22 they face. If God can forgive and welcome an imperfect person, then what is the need for Jesus? On the other hand, if they are still sinning even after accepting Jesus (and ALL of them are, by their own admission), then on what basis are they fit for God’s presence, if sinless perfection is the qualifying criteria? Think about this: if it is about “the blood of Jesus” and “Jesus dying for our sins”, then there is no need for repentance or even right-doing, since God does not consider your sin, but Jesus’ supposed perfection in your place.
////////////////
YOU HAVE TO SAY “I DON’T KNOW” for a 6 year old HINDU child ?
how is it JUST for your god to put UNHOLY filth like u in heaven? HOW ?
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@ Paulus
How do you not know? I need you to really think about what Hell is. I find most people don’t really comprehend it hence sayings like “I’ll see you in Hell”, “It’s hot as Hell”, “Tonight we’ll dine in Hell” etc. It’s a place where someone is burning and being tortured constantly. The shade chokes, the water boils and the food destroys the insides. The punishment does not “let up” or you get used to it. It only gets worse and worse. God tortures the person, physically, psychologically and emotionally. The angels there were created without mercy and don’t care about the people crying, screaming or begging for it to stop. They will never receive ANY relief whatsoever. This might sound a little crazy but tonight just take a little Bic lighter and just hold your hand over it for as long as you can. That is just this world’s fire, the Fire in the Next is even hotter. Then I want you to imagine a 6-year-old being subject to that across their entire body for eternity. Again think about eternity it will never ever end. This goes beyond religion right now. To subject a baby to this torture because some magical water was not sprinkled on them for something they couldn’t even comprehend is beyond wrong. The reason people go to Hell is that they chose to and God sent them signs throughout their whole life to submit to Him.
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Magical water? Seems you’ve turned to straw men arguments aswell.
If someone is punished in hell it is because of their sins. Simple as that.
Who that is is up to God. God is just and does right by definition of being God. Who are you to judge above God?
Your answer above only proves to me that Allah is not God. He would be unjust by definition, which makes me certain he is not the true God. This is common for man made religions like Islam.
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Bwhahahaha! Typical crosstian excuses for their evil god. “Who are you to judge above God”, they say. Well, first of all, your so-called “God” is not the True God. Your “God” is a pagan construct.
You think your god is “just” for torturing a baby in hell for eternity for sins he/she didn’t even understand? That in fact proves that your god is a demon, not the Almighty. Come to your senses, you idiot. We are talking about BABIES and CHILDREN, here. I really am glad that the women in Australia have a good screening process and that one hasn’t had a child with an evil crosstian such as yourself! God help any child that would call you “father”!
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“He would be unjust by definition, which makes me certain he is not the true God. ”
hold on a second, Allah putting a 0-5 year old hindu girl in heaven is unjust ?
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I know Tony. It will never sink in to this evil scum that his god will punish a baby or a child in hell. He calls that “justice”. WOW!!
And yet he says that he is against punishing 10 year olds for crimes in Australia! Confused much?
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LOL!!! So after all this, Cerbie’s answer to the question of whether a non-Christian child will burn in hell is…”I don’t know”? What kind of idiotic and evil religion do you follow? The answer should of course be: Of course not. God isn’t an evil tyrant that would torture a child in hell.
But I get it. Your religion doesn’t give you the ability to say “of course not”, because your religion is of the devil.
So Allah can’t be God because He will not torture a child in hell? Actually, that is proof that He is God, because as God, He is merciful and compassionate. There is no mercy and compassion in torturing a child.
The fact that you cannot say definitively what your god will do proves that he is not God. Your god is either indecisive or a bloodthirsty savage. Either way, he can’t be God.
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I know it’s dissapointing imam britney al-lat, that I haven’t given you an ammunition to troll over, but the sad reality for you (assuming you agree with stew? Who knows? Since you refuse to answer) is that Allah cannot be god by definition. He is not just. He allows injustice and sin to conquer him.
And yet you also commit shirk by condemning God for judging sin. You really are imam britney al-lat, lord over Allah
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I know it’s disappointing seeing your god skewered like a kabob. You have given me plenty of ammunition! I already told you. The fact that you were stalling for so long was in itself clear proof of the evil of your religion! And now, the “I don’t know” answer only makes this worse!
Your definition of “just” is ridiculously out of touch with reality. Just because you say your god is “just” does not make him so. Your god cannot possibly be “just” if he will torture a child murderer while also torturing his victim simultaneously. Come to your senses, you brain-dead pagan.
When I condemn your idiotic god for being an evil tyrant, I am not committing shirk. Just like when I condemn the belief in Kali (another made-up evil deity), it is not shirk. I am condemning false gods.
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” is that Allah cannot be god by definition. He is not just. He allows injustice and sin to conquer him.”
Allah allowing a 2 year old child in heaven means the “sins” of the 2 year old “conquer ” him ?
He is unjust for allowing a 2 year old in heaven ?
the only way is for god to die for the sins of 2 year old like :
Paulus says:
August 13, 2018 at 7:56 pm
Anger
Jealousy
Hitting
Disobedience
Biting
Lieing
…shall I go on…
since sin is sin, then a two year old biting deserves punishment in hell , so this implies that 2 year old biting and adolf hitler murdering jews all deserve punishment in hell.
the act of biting itself is A SIN which deserves hell .
if the child was just doing that act alone it would be enough to condemn it.
for god to treat child and hitler the same will not be unjust, both are sinners because god is “holy” and biting deserves punishment in hell.
god is “just” god and he lets christians in heaven because he is a “just” god and he punishes child in hell for biting because he is “just” god.
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“What you have effectively demonstrated is that Allah is by definition unable to be God. I appreciate your honesty.”
LA HOWLA WA LA QUWATA ILLA BILLAH !!!!!
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Bless you (I assume that was a sneeze?)
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F-_K ur paulinan jesus!
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jesus dying for you is like me nailing my penis to the floor!
a completely useless shitty act that does not solve the problem of sin.
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quote :
And ironically, Rabbi, that is exactly what Christians REALLY believe when they are not trying to convert people, but living their life in a cycle of sin and repentance. How many times have we seen the bumper sticker that reads, “Christians are not Perfect, just Forgiven”?
This is the catch-22 they face. If God can forgive and welcome an imperfect person, then what is the need for Jesus? On the other hand, if they are still sinning even after accepting Jesus (and ALL of them are, by their own admission), then on what basis are they fit for God’s presence, if sinless perfection is the qualifying criteria? Think about this: if it is about “the blood of Jesus” and “Jesus dying for our sins”, then there is no need for repentance or even right-doing, since God does not consider your sin, but Jesus’ supposed perfection in your place.
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What a disgraceful video!
I suppose we now know you are Ugandan?
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i’m not ugandan, i do have family from uganda.
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No, it was a condemnation of your evil god.
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@ Paulus
Yes, that is what it is magical water. A child is sprinkled with it and poof in heaven. They had no understanding or even made the choice to become a Christian. This Hindu child was born in a remote village with the exact same setup except for no water and poof we don’t know.
A child has not had enough time to comprehend what is good and evil, and you keep brushing this off like it’s no a big deal. It’s not just and no human would say punishing someone for something they didn’t do is just. That is by simple human standards.
You’re making God into a tyrant, not a judge. He knew we would sin before we were created. He does not like sin but He loves repentance which is why we’re held in such high esteem. Angels do not “choose” to obey God they just do it without thought. We as humans are honored above them because of our voluntary submission. Where we differ in the story of Adam(as) is he sinned but repented. The whole point of the story is that we can turn back to God no matter how far we’ve gone down the road in sin. He is there always ready to accept repentance.
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“It’s not just and no human would say punishing someone for something they didn’t do is just“
This is painful. Remember my first comment? Christians simply don’t believe people (kids included) are punished for something they didn’t do.
Remember my last comment? “If someone is punished in hell it is because of their sins”
Is it any clearer? Or will you just ignore both of these and continue to fabricate straw men?
Fact is, your admission about the 14 year old has proven that Allah cannot be God by shear definition.
“Angels do not “choose” to obey God they just do it without thought.“
That contradicts the narration on iblis.
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“Christians simply don’t believe people (kids included) are punished for something they didn’t do.”
Your girlfriend does.
In any case, it doesn’t matter if they did it or not. A baby or a young child does not understand right and wrong. Your god is too stupid and bloodthirsty to get that through his white-haired head. Ergo, your god cannot be THE just God. Your god is a pagan god, more akin to Kali. Come to your senses and see the evil of your religion. Your god is evil.
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“That contradicts the narration on iblis.”
That’s because Iblis is not an angel, you moron. He was a jinn among the angels.
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You believe in jinn? Like the pagan Arabs who worshipped then before muhammad? LOL.
I didn’t realise you were into the invisible creatures from another world that cross over and influence humans? Sounds so…..
….pagan…
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LOL!! Another deflection? Not to mention completely inconsistent?
So let me get this straight. To believe in angels as invisible beings that can take human form and influence humans is not pagan, but believing in another race of beings is?
Sounds so…hypocritical…and Christian…
Oh and let’s not forget your sky lord El! You know, that white-haired dude sitting on a throne with wheels? Sounds so…pagan…
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“So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them, Except Iblees “
Seems pretty clear that iblis is an angel
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Yes, if you are a brain-dead crosstian. As I said, Iblis was a jinn among the angels.
“Behold! We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam”: They bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the Command of his Lord.”
Seems pretty clear that he was a jinn among the angels.
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@ Paulus
You believe children are punished for sins I understand what you’re saying. I’m saying they do not have the capacity of knowing right and wrong yet. As I said before you really don’t understand what Hell is which is why the thought would even cross your mind of them being in it. You’re thinking of it as some abstract or theoretical concept. Again there is a difference between punishing defiant sinners and children. You’re going to the extreme about sin. God knew we would sin already. The sin only harms us not God in any way, shape or form. Yes He is a judge but He is also Forgiving and Merciful because He created us with free choice.
Moving on to your comment about the Jinn, I’m sorry we both agree God sends beings to deliver messages to humans and sing His praise (i.e. angels) but you draw the line at another creation? That’s pretty weird lol. However, the concept exists in the Bible as well as the beings we’re talking about generally have 2 names. In the OT, there called Shedim, there mentioned in Psalm 106:37 and Deuteronomy 32:17. In the NT there called things like “unclean spirits” (Matthew 12:44). These beings are the things Jesus(as) was casting out of people. What did you think they were random dead people? From the Jewish Encyclopedia:
The demons mentioned in the Bible are of two classes, the “se’irim” and the “shedim.” The se’irim (“hairy beings”), to which the Israelites sacrificed in the open fields (Lev. xvii. 7; A. V. “devils”; R. V., incorrectly, “he-goats”), are satyr-like demons, described as dancing in the wilderness (Isa. xiii. 21, xxxiv. 14; compare Maimonides, “Moreh,” iii. 46; Vergil’s “Eclogues,” v. 73, “saltantes satyri”), and are identical with the jinn of the Arabian woods and deserts (see Wellhausen, l.c., and Smith, l.c.).”
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5085-demonology
The except Iblis is a linguistic construction in Arabic. Admittedly it sounds weird in English but I’ll do my best to explain it. Its read like:
“Remember when I told the angels: “Bow down to Adam”.
Recalling the incident. Pause.
“Everyone bowed except Lucifer who adamantly refused. He sought greatness and was from the ungrateful disbelievers.”
Everone who was there that day bowed except Lucifer. Again it sounds weird in English but he’s not included as being among Angels.
God explicitly states in another ayat he was a demon (this ayat also helps in explaining how to read it like I was telling you):
Like when I had said to the angels: “Bow down before Adam”. Everyone bowed, except Lucifer because he was one of the jinns and he violated his Lord’s command. So are you going to take him and his heirs as your masters instead of Me, even though they’re clearly your enemies? What a terrible alternative for those doing wrong… (18:50)
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On the contrary you don’t understand who God is. You seem to think people deserve heaven. This fundamental error makes your theology and soteriology incorrect. You don’t take God (or sin) seriously. And by your own admission earlier you’ve disqualified Allah as being divine by distinct definition.
If everyone who goes to hell is punished their for their own transgressions, then it follows that if children are sent there it is for their own transgressions.
Giving everyone under 15 a get out of jail free card is ethically problematic and simply unrealistic. You have a child. You can’t honestly believe that they “don’t know” right from wrong from a very early age. Why bother to be a parent then?
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@ Paulus
To begin it’s not “to 15” it’s “a max of 15”. Most people come nowhere close to 15. You created a situation where a 14-year-old doesn’t even look at females in a sexual context (i.e he thinks their “pretty” or “nice” etc.) all of a sudden up and commit a murder. It isn’t even a realistic scenario. How many 14-year-olds (really 13 by our calendar) do you know have none of the 5 criteria I listed before?
Next, I have never once said people deserve heaven you’re adding to my words. I said God created us to worship Him and He’s not harmed by sin. However, He does want us to go to Heaven and has no desire to punish us. He created Heaven for us like how He created the Earth for us. For some unknown reason, you assume justice always involves punishment. Justice, in essence, is settling disagreements between parties fairly. Let’s take for example when Solomon(as) judged between the 2 women who were claiming to have been the mother of the baby. Solomon(as) judged correctly who the mother was and returned the baby to its rightful mother. Not torture, no punishment. He simply established justice between these people with wisdom.
God forgives sin against ourselves if He chooses to (for example, drinking alcohol, watching porn etc.) When someone else is harmed He settles the parties disagreement. THAT is true justice. Even by our human standards a good judge looks at each case individually and determines the right outcome. For example, a person who steals someone’s stuff is bad. However, in the same scenario, a person steals food because they were poor and hadn’t eaten in a week. The parameters in these cases are different even though the crime was the same.
And because you’re not a parent (I can tell from what you’re saying). Their understanding is very limited (especially 2-5) they do of course understand more as they grow (hence the whole parenting and teaching thing) but it’s a process that doesn’t happen overnight. It really is shocking that this discussion is even on the table. You can’t say: “God loves us” etc on one hand. And then entertain the fact that He would burn a 2-year-old for eternity on the other. In essence, what you’ve really done is created, two gods. There is God who is an uncaring entity who destroys all and Jesus who is the loving one who you worship to protect yourself the evil one.
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Isn’t it amazing how Cerbie harps about his god’s sense of “justice”, yet when faced with hypothetical scenarios, he wasn’t able to give any answer other than “I don’t know”? The scenario we previously gave of one Christian wronging the other, and now the scenario of whether a 6 year old will go to hell or not. In both scenarios, Cerbie said “I don’t know”. For someone who harps a lot about his god’s “justice”, he doesn’t have much information.
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“If everyone who goes to hell is punished their for their own transgressions, then it follows that if children are sent there it is for their own transgressions.”
here is one disgusting sick human who sins from monday to sunday and he tells himself he is “guaranteed heaven,” yet child from 0-5 is “sinful” and will be put in hell for its “transgressions”
since u do not deserve heaven, your god is UNJUST for putting your ass in heaven. he breaks the LAWS of his “holiness”
i can’t believe that a filth bag like u would think you are BETTER than 0-5 year old SINLESS being.
you DESERVE hell for your one INFRACTION.
if your god can put child in hell for getting ANGRY or biting and he creates “the rules,”
then he can PUT you in hell too, because CURRENTLY you are SEEN as a SINNER.
if u are angry , u are a MURDERER
if a child is angry, is he a MURDERER ?
if not, then the child does not DESERVE hell, right?
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO JUSTICE ?
in your beliefs, god is TREATED unequal things equally .
is a 3 year old who takes sweets from a shop equal to an 18 year old who takes sweets from shop without shopkeepers knowledge.
these are unequal things being treated equally . thats not justice, thats injustice.
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LOL!! Stew, so Cerbie is resorting to straw man arguments, after accusing everyone else of doing the same!
Cerbie, you moron, what you can’t get through your think skull is that it is ludicrous of your god to hold a baby or a child responsible they couldn’t even understand. Your Bible says it too. There is a certain point (without telling us when exactly) where a person becomes capable of choosing right or wrong. A baby cannot do that. Neither can a child. Since your god cannot understand this, it proves he is not God.
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Nice work brother! Cerbie’s ignorance has been exposed yet again!
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“And then entertain the fact that He would burn a 2-year-old for eternity on the other.“
This is why i said you’d believe people deserve heaven. Your comment above demonstrates this principle.
The fact is no one deserves heaven or to bask in God’s glory. That he allows anyone in is the real surprise, not that he gives some what they duly deserve. Which is why he truly is loving
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@ Paulus
Dude, you’re saying God would torture a 2-year-old. Just think about this comment for a second. A TWO-year-old. You know how we find the crime extra despicable when someone murders a child? You’re accusing God of something even worse by saying He would torture a child. This would contradict His attributes of being the Most Merciful (Ar Rahman) the Most Loving(Al Wadood) and the Most Understanding(Al Haleem) if He were to do so. You’re being extreme in regards to His punishment. God is loving yes and wants to have us be with Him. Hence why He asks us to do things that are easy and then give us more than we deserve.
What would God gain by punishing you if you’re thankful and believe in Him? God is Appreciative and Knows Everything. (4:147)
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Please demonstrate how this would contradict his attributes rather than just assume it. Without assuming your Islamic premises to begin with of course.
Please demonstrate logically how allowing sin to remain unpunished is not a contradict of his holiness and justice.
I hate to say it, but your god seems made to please you than you are likely to submit to Him.
Your base assumption is that people deserve heaven. If you remove this presupposition, then you have no logical or moral basis for disputing any of this. If you say that isn’t your assumption, then you need to stop asserting that a child is free from judgement.
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LOL!! Meanwhile, Cerbie is assuming his crosstian premises to begin with of course.
How does your god actually punish sin? He punished himself. The sinner gets away scot-free by simply accepting this act. How is that justice? You think your god is just because he allowed himself to be tortured? As long as SOMEONE/ANYONE gets punished, your god is sated? How is that justice?
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QUOTE :
Dude, you’re saying God would torture a 2-year-old. Just think about this comment for a second.
pauloose:
“Please demonstrate logically how allowing sin to remain unpunished is not a contradict of his holiness and justice.”
UNEQUAL THINGS ARE BEING TREATED EQUALLY YOU SICK FK!
THATS JUSTICE BROKEN!
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“Your base assumption is that people deserve heaven. If you remove this presupposition, then you have no logical or moral basis for disputing any of this. If you say that isn’t your assumption, then you need to stop asserting that a child is free from judgement.”
okay, lets remove that assumption.
infant does not deserve heaven, because an infant is a sick filthy born in sin creature. his one sin of constantly crying is like the one sin of a child rapist. does not matter the level or severity of the sin, the INFANT DESERVES HELL, HELL HELLL because he is BORN the way he is.
infant born to hindu parents DIED 6 months later.
since that child used to CRY its eyes out, it NEEDS judgement. and because your “holy ” god is “just” then that child DESERVES hell and you being a FILTHY F*KIN christian is “guaranteed heaven” ?
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Yes, and this simple concept cannot penetrate Cerbie’s thick skull. But I think it is because of pride and blind loyalty to his false religion that is keeping him from acknowledging this simple fact.
This is why I discussed the issue of child murderers. Cerbie’s god is infinitely more evil and horrifying than any child murderer could ever be!
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Then your god is just a cruel, evil tyrant. Thank you for proving it once again. Thus, the conclusion is that your god does not deserve any worship from anyone. Your god is an imaginary fairy tale, like one of those Disney villains (only infinitely more frightening).
As Stew already explained, God can do anything He wants, but He has forbidden certain things for Himself. Torturing babies and children is one such thing. Of course He has the power to throw them into hell and torture them for eternity, but that would be contrary to His mercy and compassion. Therefore, He has forbidden that for Himself. He doesn’t have to be a child torturer in order for Him to be just.
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@ Paulus
No, you’ve made the assumption. I have said time and time again no one deserves heaven. He could torture a child if He wished but He WON’T there is a difference. For example, God WON’T ever be stupid.
But what needs to be defined is Love, Mercy, Justice, and Forbearance. I couldn’t quite tell if you’re arguing God does not have these qualities or not. But if you believe He does (which most people do) then define them.
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i am being to think what a christian woman thinks as she is breast feeding her child ? does she think that he child is having sexual thoughts ? i mean this discussion is proving what non-humans these christians are.
they continue to sin and project their filthy lives unto things which do not even commit sin.
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