When asked if babies that die in infancy will get into Heaven, Christian apologist Robert responded thusly (emphasis mine):
“Like I said, we have one Biblical answer, and that child went to heaven. It’s not guaranteed for all children though. It’s not like God owes us heaven.”
Robbie was referring to David’s son, who was struck down by God for David’s adulterous relationship with Bathsheba. Besides the obvious contradiction this incident creates with the general rules of the Tanakh (the one who sins is the one who dies…), the appeal to the son of David shows that only some children who die before reaching adulthood will actually get into the Christian Heaven.
This creates a conundrum for Christians, who insist that God is “loving” and “just”. How can a “loving” God condemn a baby to hell for simply having a “sinful” nature? And if God was “just” (at least in the Christian sense), then EVERY baby (even David’s son) should go to hell because of the taint of original sin. This conundrum shows that the Christian concept of “God” is neither “loving” nor “just”, but reduces the Almighty and Merciful God to a cruel, unjust and unfair tyrant. As it stands, the Christian god cannot be the True God.
For more on the false doctrine of original sin, see my article here:
The Quran and Bible Blog 
neuro science studies the connections in a baby brain and how the brain is developing ? how can one say the child is whiner when hundreds of those connections are still unconnected ?
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I just thought about this point as well. Robert is saying that the Bible says the child went to Heaven. The question is why? It shouldn’t have been allowed into Heaven according to Christianity so this story actually serves as an evidence against Original Sin.
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Notice how Robbie is suddenly avoiding this topic. I guess the poor guy really needs his beauty sleep!
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@ QB
Also, more proof that children don’t go to Hell and that Original Sin is a false doctrine:
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal–something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind. (Jeremiah 19:5)
So he’s claiming that God condemns the pagans for burning their children in this life’s fire but then God will burn the children in a Fire 70x hotter than this life’s and will last forever?
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Either original sin is false, or the Christian god is a hypocrite. Either way, the crosstians are screwed.
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the whole concept of original sin is destroyed by the fact that human fitra has always seen baby as innocent, even the pagans all over the world who gave their children to their dieties saw infants as INNOCENT, otherwise why would they offer sinners ?
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Yawn, another dumb post.
Q and bs – your god wants you to brutally murder people for apostasy and stone people to death for adultery which you claim guarantees their entry into heaven. Your god is a sadist.
Again, you are too dumb to realize that the true god – yahweh, not the moon god, al-lah – exists beyond time and all possibilities for every soul exist simultaneously for him. God knows every possible future for all creatures, and thus if, indeed, babies do not get into heaven, we trust that god has sufficient moral reasons for that.
Please stop being an idiot and try to understand this simple concept.
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LOL, so Coco worked up some courage again to show his face here. Your embarrassing performances must have scared you to stay away!
Moron, your pagan god is a bloodthirsty and cruel tyrant. This demon thinks it is just to throw a BABY into a lake of FIRE. WOW!! And you idiots still push the lie that this being is a “loving” father! What kind of god who “so loves the world” would throw a baby into a fire and then call it “justice”? You see, this is why your religion is one of the evil cults to ever exist on earth.
Please stop being an idot and try to understand this simple concept, you mindless simian.
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What are you even talking about, idiot?
Try and read what I wrote slowly, it might give you a better chance at comprehending it. Yahweh sees all possible futures, pasts, and presents – it isn’t that hard is it?
The difference is that god carries out divine punishment – that’s why when you guys are busy bashing people’s heads in with stones when they commit adultery, we are praying for the souls of such people hoping that the Lord has mercy on them. I’m not called to bash people’s heads in with stones, you are. Al-Lat is clearly a far more brutal, evil demonic entity. Even mohammed believed that Al-Lat’s “angel” was a demon.
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Hey idiot, you are justifying your god BURNING BABIES. Try and let that sink in to your diseased head. Think for a second without your idiotic crosstian beliefs.
Even if your god knows the future (which is debatable), the fact remains that he thinks babies can burn in hell NOT because of what they WOULD have done, but because they are supposedly tainted with original sin. That is the justification. So how is that just or fair? They are being punished for something they didn’t even do, and were not old enough to even understand!
Moreover, even if the justification was because of what they WOULD have done, the fact remains that they DIDN’T do it yet, because they never had the choice between right and wrong. They never reached the age of distinguishing from the two, so how is it just to throw them into hell for something they didn’t do?
Apparently, your god’s hell will be filled with the cries of babies burning in agony solely because of your tyrannical, evil god’s convoluted logic. You might as well worship Kali, you sick psycho! You should be the one burning for eternity, not the innocent babies which you think are somehow deserving of never-ending agony. I would delight in seeing you burn in hell, you diseased loser!
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“The difference is that god carries out divine punishment – that’s why when you guys are busy bashing people’s heads in with stones when they commit adultery, we are praying for the souls of such people hoping that the Lord has mercy on them. I’m not called to bash people’s heads in with stones, you are.”
where does god say in the bible not to punish the adulterer via stoning through human hands ? are you praying against your god for sending punishment like stoning ? u must be sickened by biblical stoning laws , right? u clearly hate yhwhs “righteous” stoning laws, right? u said “i am not called to bash peoples heads in” thats because u hate the “righteous” law of stoning to death. u hate your god and you hate his days in old testament.
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“The difference is that god carries out divine punishment ”
so tell us, are the AMALEKITE children in heaven? you know, the ones that your god told the hebrews to go and RIP out from their mothers bellies. are they BURNING in hell ?
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The moron is complaining about adulterers being stoned, yet is trying to justify the murders of thousands of babies AND then their eternal agony in a lake of fire, all for the glorification of his demonic god. These hypocrites deserve to burn slowly for their lies.
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bro, this is why atheists tear them another one. i have seen many a time they go on atheist forums bashing islam only for the atheist to rip them on the bible and atheist end up defending islam LOL
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Isn’t it hilarious how the dummy is still trying to make his religion appear loving and compassionate in a vain effort to bash Islam? Meanwhile, he is justifying his evil god burning babies. You can’t make this stuff up. It is proof of the garbage that is Christianity.
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“Apparently, your god’s hell will be filled with the cries of babies burning in agony solely because of your tyrannical, evil god’s convoluted logic. You might as well worship Kali, you sick psycho! You should be the one burning for eternity, not the innocent babies which you think are somehow deserving of never-ending agony. I would delight in seeing you burn in hell, you diseased loser!”
this is why authorities should be alerted on these people .they most likely harbour people in their churches who rape infants . they see CHILDREN in an EVIL way. this is DANGEROUS. very dangerous. they think the child is BORN defected. it really is concerning to view an infant and call it a “whiner” or “born in sin”
this is scary stuff!
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Bro, I would love to see some examples of this!
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” Al-Lat is clearly a far more brutal, evil demonic entity. Even mohammed believed that Al-Lat’s “angel” was a demon.”
u dumb b****hslapped slut , LAAAT, has no CONNECTION ILAH! tell us B*****SLAPPED slut, would u be CRYING for the nailing of krist sicko ? so you are @ his cross , will you be crying “no forgiveness of sin without shedding human ” ?
now tell me, WHY aren’t u a SICK f___ ?
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HAHAHAHA, Coco got annihilated when he brought Al-Lat into the debate a few weeks ago. He ran away like a loser. I think I see how these losers operate. They make a claim, see it get refuted, run away, and then come back later when they hope everyone will have forgotten and make the same claim again.
Coco, you worship an old man with white hair who thinks he has “moral reasons” to burn babies. That is sufficient evidence that you worship an evil god which is no different than Kali.
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q and bs
Where have I justified burning babies? My only argument is that the true god – not, the “lah” – has sufficient moral reason to issue judgment and punishment derived from his knowledge of all possible futures, outcomes and possibilities which exist simultaneously for him. The “lah” whom you worship can’t see past then of his two right hands.
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Coco, you psychotic loser…
Your pagan god cannot be just or fair if he thinks that he has “moral reason” to burn a baby in hell. Your pathetic attempts at damage control are laughable!
Also, your old man of a god clearly cannot see past his own two wrinkled hands, which is why he has regrets. Your god is getting senile.
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q and bs
Answer the question. Do babies remian babies in the afterlife? WHo nurtures them? The 72 scarlet women whose only purpose is to be prostitutes for jihadists?
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LOL!! What are you even talking about you idiot? Are you asking about the Islamic view of the afterlife or the Christian view? If you think these babies will not remain babies, then prove it from your Bible. The burden of proof is on you. Also, when will these babies grow up? In the grave? Before the resurrection and judgement? You’re going around in circles, giving vague answers. This is typical of dancing monkeys. I can see you are straining to find some sort of explanation for your god’s barbarity. So go on, coward. Defend your god.
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”
Answer the question. Do babies remian babies in the afterlife? ”
u dumb son of a bi*ch !
yah (my left ball bag) punishes a baby on EARTH, then punishes it for SOMETHING it DID NOT DO on earth , REGARDLESS of what form .
yhwh: hebrews, go to the women and slaughter their infants
hebrew : okay
yhwh : now let me create the baby in a different form and PUNISH it
punished FORM : why u punishing me for ?
yhwh : because u did crimes in the future
punished form : but i never got to do any crime, u told your hebrews to PUNISH me on earth when i was an INFANT
yhwh : but i can see the future and u did x, y and z
punished form : but in never BECAME a reality, justice require that the CRIME be committed, u punishing me TWICE over .
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q and bs
So stupid.
LOL!! YOu are too stupid to follow a simple argument.
My claim is that god has sufficient moral reason to condemn anything based on his access to all realities which exist simultanseously for him.
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LOL!! You are too stupid to realize that you are saying the same thing I am! By claiming that your god has “sufficient moral reason” means you are willing to justify the BURNING of BABIES. Get that through your diseased head, imbecile.
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“My claim is that god has sufficient moral reason to condemn anything based on his access to all realities which exist simultanseously for him.”
since you are a sinful sob, and this is A REALITY, and u don’t DESERVE heaven, shouldn’t u be TRANSFORMED and pounded in hell ?
i mean in comparison to a baby , u r a sick f–k , right?
since u have ALREADY sinned and u r one filthy unholy womans period blood, there is no way u deserve to go to heaven and your god does 2 unrighteous and UNJUST activities, he puts u in heaven!
LOL . this . is INJUSTICE.
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some how they think that saying that god “transforms the baby” takes away the problem .it makes god into monster. while paedophiles, murders , fornicators, rapists will be having fun in heaven, yah will be busy “transforming” baby and PUNISHING it . those CRIMINALS should be IN hell because just ONE infraction DESERVES eternal damnation, yet they r in your heaven . AND THEY COMMITTED CRIMES!
“justice”
“judgement”
ALL becomes MEANINGLESS bs!
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“God knows every possible future for all creatures, and thus if, indeed, babies do not get into heaven, we trust that god has sufficient moral reasons for that.”
hold on a second sh*t head, did u just say that an INFANT will be burning in hell because god has “sufficient moral reasons” ? you said “do not GET into heaven” where do they go? do they get BURNT worse than your POUGHTER “saviour” ?
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” God knows every possible future for all creatures, and thus if, indeed, babies do not get into heaven, we trust that god has sufficient moral reasons for that.”
god knows FUTURE therefore god can BURN an infant in its INFANT state?
what is the “moral” reason for PUNISHING an infant in the state of BEING an infant ?
u have a problem with STONING a human, yet u have no problem with your god BURNING to crisp INFANT who exists in its INFANT state? you sick swine!
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“Q and bs – your god wants you to brutally murder people for apostasy and stone people to death for adultery which you claim guarantees their entry into heaven. Your god is a sadist.”
and u @ christ phoney cross would be chanting for the nailing of flesh because “no forgiveness of sins if the rape of krist does not happen” you are SADIST!
u gave a word which describes “father in heaven”
sadist
ˈseɪdɪst/Submit
noun
a person who derives pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain or humiliation on others.
thats yhwh man! and u hang that roman TORTURE instrument around u and like sick f—k IMAGINE how someone else got GANG raped for YOUR sins. you are the sicko.
are u female ? you must derive sexual gratification from the cross.
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@ Joel
Well allow me to remind you because you seem to have forgotten the punishment for adultery and apostasy is the same thing God has in the Bible:
“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.” (Deuteronomy 13:6-9)
Also let us look at Deuteronomy 17:3-5 “And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”
2 Chronicles 15:13 “All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.”
And oh my goodness! What’s this about adultery?
If a man commits adultery with the wife of1 his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely BE PUT TO DEATH. (Leviticus 20:10)
The Bible further clarifies:
then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall STONE THEM TO DEATH WITH STONES, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. (Deuteronomy 22:24)
Now I know you’re going “That’s the OT!” Let’s look at Jesus(as) opinion about the Law:
1 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother MUST BE PUT TO DEATH.‘ 5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ 6he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD for the sake of your tradition. 7 YOU HYPOCRITES! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 ” ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’” (Matthew 15:1-9)
There are few points to notice here:
1. Notice in verse 3, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for breaking the Commands.
2. In verse 4, he used the cursing of parents’ punishment as an example. The context, however, is not limited to just this example.
3. In verses 7,8 and 9, he used a quote from the book of Isaiah in the Old Testament, to further prove that they are not following the Commands of GOD Almighty.
4. Jesus clearly had a problem with them not following the punishment of death for cursing the parents or any punishment of death that is commanded in the OT for this matter.
So there you have it Joel the punishment in the book you believe from God has the exact same punishments.
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Even with this in mind, Coco doesn’t see the irony of justifying the eternal torture of babies in his god’s lake of fire while simultaneously shedding crocodile tears for adulterers. The little monkey is quite pathetic!
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don’t fall for it Stew…
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stew
You really should look into another profession. Imam training is confusing your sense of reason and ability to think logically.
You just don’t understand the bible enough to comment on it without making yourself look hopelessly out of your league. The law only applied to the ancient Hebrews who lived in the land of Israel starting from the time of Moses and ending with the crucifixion. Obedience to the law guaranteed prosperity for the israelites and fruitfulness in the land. That’s all. There is no eternal dimension to the law, so your point makes no sense.
Please show me where the incarnate word of god – Jesus – commands us to ill apostates and adulterers.
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WRONG!! Get ready to run away again!
The book of Ezekiel makes it clear that the laws of the Tanakh are for all times. After the battle of Gog and Magog (which last time I checked has yet to happen), the temple is supposed to be rebuilt and all the sacrificial rites reinstated. Even the rule not allowing uncircumcised foreigners into the temple will be reinstated.
Give it up loser. Your crosstian lies will not fool anyone. Your pathetic religion has been exposed as the fraud that it is. Let go of your ego and repent. It’s for your own good.
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” The law only applied to the ancient Hebrews who lived in the land of Israel starting from the time of Moses and ending with the crucifixion. ”
its alright , yhwh was such a brutal criminal until he got INSPIRED by budda and he became like those pagan gods who ALLOWED freedom to worship any gods!
you see how your god changes with time ?
he was SICK stickler for ritual, punishment, but then budda inspired him and he comes down like a POUGHTER god telling christians that he got it wrong on his ritualism’s in the past.
if you want to be gay, NO problem, the law was ONLY applicable to ancient israel .
if you do IDOLATRY, no problem , DO not worry about the WORLDLY consequences, just worship what PLEASES you. my laws were CRAP, they didn’t fix anything, i STONED adulterers, idolaters , etc etc yet the jews still practised their shit.
why don’t u admit that yhwh got it wrong ?
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the crosstian pagan wrote :
that’s why when you guys are busy bashing people’s heads in with stones when they commit adultery, we are praying for the souls of such people hoping that the Lord has mercy on them
FAIZ WROTE :
” Coco doesn’t see the irony of justifying the eternal torture of babies in his god’s lake of fire while simultaneously shedding crocodile tears for adulterers”
me:
you SEE bro faiz? you see the sick mind they have? ALL the BLOOD shedding, BATTERING adulterers with stones in israel was PERFECTLY fine,….they weren’t humans, they were made out of RUBBER!
rubber don’t feel pain, bro.
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Old covenant or not, that still doesn’t change the fact that according her standard Yahweh is “clearly a far more brutal, evil demonic entity.”
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“Old covenant or not, that still doesn’t change the fact that according her standard Yahweh is “clearly a far more brutal, evil demonic entity.”
UNTIL he realised that the pagans who gave FREEDOM TO WOrship any god , did have a point. isn’t it interesting that when it comes to freedom to worship the canaanites were more “progressive” ?
think about that , the canaanites, assyrians, syrians etc had a law which joel LOVES so much. just place this kafir in the days of the hebrews, there is no doubt he would have sided with the canaanites, assyrians, syrians because they were “morally more progressive”
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q and bs
OL!!
No it doesn’t you idiot.
Show me again where Jesus commands us to kill apostates and adulterers? Your the sicko that think bashing someone’s brains in is some kind mercy.
Great religion you have there. LOL!!
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“OL!!
No it doesn’t you idiot.
Show me again where Jesus commands us to kill apostates and adulterers? Your the sicko that think bashing someone’s brains in is some kind mercy.
Great religion you have there. LOL!!”
LOL!! What a typical response! Just say “no” and move on! ROTFL!!
Uh, yes it does idiot, and I showed why. Time for another lesson:
1. Ezekiel mentions the battle of Gog and Magog (ch. 39). When did that happen? Is it in the future? Are you with me so far?
2. After the battle, the temple will be rebuilt. Instructions are giving in great detail (ch. 40).
3. After the temple is built, the animal sacrifices will be restarted (ch. 43). What were the sacrifices for again? 😉
4. Foreigners, who are uncircumcised, will not be able to enter the temple (ch. 44:9). Does that include Gentile Christians? 😉
Now that you have been educated, tell me why you think Ezekiel is not the final nail in the coffin of your idiotic religion? Why are you so embarrassed of your god’s laws? LOL!!
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“Show me again where Jesus commands us to kill apostates and adulterers? Your the sicko that think bashing someone’s brains in is some kind mercy.”
are u talking about the triune being who has oneness like my left testicle or are you talking about the one person who has oneness like one sperm cell ?
u really hate the stuff that went on in the ot, right?
but your god doesn’t
jones did an article on that as well
https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/search?q=great+nation+has+laws
31 “You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
32 “Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it. (Deut. 12:31-32 NAU)
8 “Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today? (Deut. 4:1-8 NAU)
so tell me, you just called STONING sick , u dumb bit%ch!
your god calls it RIGHTEOUS.
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“No it doesn’t you idiot.”
Tell that to jones
https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/search?q=great+nation+has+laws
lets see how well the “holy spirit” is currently filling u and raping u to give u some brain power.
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HEY joel ,
My pet theory is that YHWH is actually the Canaanite moon god Yerich. When Canaanites immigrated to Egypt (as mercenaries, refugees, etc.) they adopted the Egyptian name for the moon god, which is Yah (just like Yerich, Yah is both the name of the moon in Egyptian and the name of the moon god). When those Canaanites (the Hyksos?) returned to “Canaan” — the Judean hill country and Jordan river valley — they continued to call the moon god Yah, as well as Yerich.
That is why there is a city right in the middle of this region call Jericho (named for the Canaanite god Yerich). Jericho was the early capital of Yerich/Yah worship.
As time passed, these Hebrew speaking Canaanites formed a confederacy against the Philistines — the so-called confederacy of Israel — which spread the worship of Yah throughout the tribes, such as at Shiloh, Bethel and, eventually, Jerusalem. Then during the rise of the Neo-Assyrian empire, from around 900 BCE, two important changes occured.
First, the name of Yah was semiticizes, so-to-speak, by adding the typical “-u” suffix to his name (if you look up the names of Assyrian gods, you’ll see that a lot of them end in “-u”). Thus Yah also came to be called Yahu. Second, many, if not most Israelite names — especially those of Israelite kings and leaders — became theophoric. That is, they had the name of God — Yah or Yahu — in their names: Yahushfat (Jehoshaphat), ‘Atalyahu (Queen Athaliah), Amatzyahu (Amaziah), etc. This marked an explosion in the worship of Yah/Yahu in Israel
///
how does that feel joel?
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U KNOW this kind of crosstian sicko thinking allows many possibilities. an INFANT in its INFANT STATE can be PUT in hell and a RAPIST and murderer can be PUT in heaven ….there is ALSO the possibility of GOD FORGIVING a person WITHOUT a blood sacrifice. WHY limit your gods RULES for forgiving , but make him LIMITLESS for other things?
your heaven good be filled with crimes and all INNOCENT burning in hell , just put it under “suffiencient moral reasons for that ”
it works .
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“Where have I justified burning babies? My only argument is that the true god – not, the “lah” – has sufficient moral reason to issue judgment and punishment derived from his knowledge of all possible
futures,”
WHAT are the “sufficient moral reasons ” for DIPPING a new born in fire?
list them
what has “future” got to do with DIPPING A INFANT in fire?
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“The law only applied to the ancient Hebrews who lived in the land of Israel starting from the time of Moses and ending with the crucifixion. ”
LYING piece of shit, we know this is not a fact. we know that christians NEVER thought the shit which u just uttered. even scholarship is DISPROVING the shit which u just uttered.
yhwhs LAWS are eternal and applicable for ALL times ALL places.
“Obedience to the law guaranteed prosperity for the israelites and fruitfulness in the land. That’s all. There is no eternal dimension to the law, so your point makes no sense.”
why do you lie to yourself ? WHERE does the torah say ANYTHING of the lie which u just uttered?
“Please show me where the incarnate word of god – Jesus – commands us to ill apostates and adulterers.”
the new testament did not exist in his time
the torah text would be his guidance.
jesus clearly says that torah does not have a sell by date,
jesus said to christians to OBEY AND LISTEN to the pharisees
the only way for god to be happy according to jesus is doing his laws and commands. jesus NEVER said that LEVITICUS punishment law is replaced by human sacrifice.
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