Cerbie’s Nightmare Continues…The Bible on Marriage

So Cerbie is apparently obsessed with the happy marriage between Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her).  This is despite the fact that he has presented no proof to the contrary, and keeps harping about the age difference, even though it has been proven time and again that this was very common in the pre-industrial world, and ALL cultures, including Jewish and Christian ones, practiced it and saw nothing wrong with it.  But what does the Bible actually say on what is the proper age of marriage?  Does it correspond to Cerbie’s secular ideals?  Of course, the answer is no (and Cerbie definitely knows this).  So let’s see what the Bible actually says on the subject.  According to the Christian website “Got Questions“:

Both the language and culture of the Bible strongly support the idea that puberty, at bare minimum, is a condition that must be met before becoming someone’s spouse. This fits with the historical purpose of marriage, which has always been about conceiving and rearing children. Scriptural evidence indicates that those too young for childbearing are not candidates for marriage, though there is no explicit age given in the Bible.

So, the Bible states that the minimum requirement for marriage is puberty, which can occur (depending on various factors), from as early as age 8 in girls.

The website also says that in Jewish tradition, girls were typically considered of marriageable age at age 12 (of course historically, the age could be more or less):

According to tradition, boys were not considered “men,” and therefore not marriageable, until the age of 13. Girls were not considered “women” until age 12. These ages more or less correspond to the onset of puberty. While those ages might seem too young to us, they are not unusual ages for getting married, historically. It has only been within the last century or so that the average age of getting married has drifted into the late twenties and early thirties.

It also points out, quite reasonably, that “maturity” depends of culture.  For most of human history, maturity was expected at a much earlier age:

It’s also important to recall that maturity—often used as a benchmark for allowing sexuality and marriage—is highly cultural. In modern Western countries, people are not generally expected to be self-sufficient until they are nearly in their twenties, or even later. For most of human history, however, people were expected to “grow up” much sooner. The age of getting married was normally young, as everyone was expected to mature socially and emotionally more quickly than today.

But here is where it gets interesting.  In the book of Ezekiel (which I have always said is probably one book that Christians wish was NOT in their canon!), describes a rather strange statement by God, but one that confirms the significance of puberty as the main requirement for marriage:

Ezekiel 16 contains a metaphor for God’s relationship to Israel. In this passage, God cares for Israel, pictured as an orphaned girl in various stages of development. The Lord first sees her birth, then watches her grow up: “You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown. . . . Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you” (verses 7–8).

Notice how “God” in this passage is describing a pubescent girl (the nation of Israel) as having “breasts” and long hair.  In the modern context, such a statement would be seen as highly offensive.  But the fact that the book of Ezekiel says this proves that puberty was the minimum requirement for marriage.

259 thoughts on “Cerbie’s Nightmare Continues…The Bible on Marriage

  1. “Scriptural evidence indicates that those too young for childbearing are not candidates for marriage, though there is no explicit age given in the Bible.”

    there is absolutely no law in the bible which prohibit marrying pre-pubescent girls. just like there was no sin in doing polygamy, there was no sin in marrying 6 year old girl . no rules were broken. any hebrew who brought in captive could perform any type of sexual act on his child bride, yhwh did not say this was sinful . IF KILLING 3 YEAR OLD children is not SINFUL act how about taking your child captive in your house and making her perform oral sex? yes, bible and jesus did not forbid sexual acts on child. bible supports sexual acts on child.

    Like

    1. such biblical acts were accepted because it was seen as healthy and preparation for child to bear as many children as possible. such are very biblical/christian acts. these christians today would trash yhwh, jesus and hebrew bible and think they are morally superior to yhwh and bible. these christians disgust us.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Paulus

    The headline
    “The Bible on Marriage“

    The outcome
    “though there is no explicit age given in the Bible.”

    Your conclusion
    “So, the Bible states that the minimum requirement for marriage is puberty, which can occur (depending on various factors), from as early as age 8 in girls.”

    😂😂 #fakenews

    But let’s run with this- Muhammad still married a 6 year old prepubescent child. Ergo, he must be a false prophet

    Like

    1. ““though there is no explicit age given in the Bible.”

      you seen in numbers that TAF were taken to hebrew houses for sexual pleasure , the point is that bible does not care about how young the girl was. the younger she got pregnant , the more children in the futute , because she probably would die age 19. biblical women job was to be reproduction machine to continue the family line. in poorer societies , which was majority, biblical women had to be married of younger.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. “But let’s run with this- Muhammad still married a 6 year old prepubescent child. Ergo, he must be a false prophet”

      you and jesus were reading this allowed to little children :

      Study the Bible
      Easy-to-Read Version
      Ezekiel 23:20
      She remembered her lover with the penis like a donkey and a flood of semen like a horse

      who reads crap like this to children ?

      Liked by 1 person

    3. LOL, it’s not my conclusion idiot, it’s your fellow Christians! 😂😂 Funny how you always want us to look “context”, but here, you are conveniently ignoring it! #Lookatcerbierun

      So when you do run with this, it shows that the Bible rules regarding marriage are not in line with modern views. Ergo, crosstians like Cerbie are in serious trouble when they criticize Muhammad’s (pbuh) marriage to Aisha (ra).

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Paulus and Qb

        No point in you guys arguing,

        “Most girls start to go through puberty sometime between the ages of 9 and 13.”
        https://sexetc.org/info-center/post/when-does-puberty-happen-and-what-changes-when-does-it-happen/

        “The average age for girls to begin puberty is 11, while for boys the average age is 12. But there’s no set timetable, so don’t worry if your child reaches puberty before or after their friends. It’s completely normal for puberty to begin at any point from the ages of 8 to 14. The process takes about four years overall.”
        https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/stages-of-puberty-what-happens-to-boys-and-girls/

        “The process of marriage occurs in two distinct stages: kiddushin (commonly translated as betrothal) and nisuin (full-fledged marriage).”

        “The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times.”
        http://www.jewfaq.org/marriage.htm

        From my understanding, the Jews are simply averaging the 12-13 but it appears the age is puberty in general from the Jewish Encyclopedia:
        “The Rabbis, however, reckoned the age of maturity from the time when the first signs of puberty appear (Nid. 52a), and estimated that these signs come, with women, about the beginning of the thirteenth year, and about the beginning of the fourteenth year with men.”
        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10310-majority

        “Some urge that children should marry as soon as they reach the age of puberty… It was, however, strictly forbidden for parents to give their children in marriage before they had reached the age of puberty (Sanh. 76b). ”
        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10435-marriage-laws

        A marriage contracted for a girl minor by her father was regarded as valid; and it necessitated the formality of a divorce if separation was desired…
        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10888-mi-un

        The ḳeṭannah might be given in marriage by her father, and the marriage was valid, necessitating a formal divorce if separation was desired.
        http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10310-majority

        Liked by 1 person

      2. The nightmare just won’t end for Cerbie! The guy needs a tutor to teach him some basic human biology and then maybe a Biblical scholar can set him straight on what the Bible actually teaches. 😂😂

        #cerbiehasmuchtolearn

        Like

      3. Paulus

        Um, Aisha was 6. A child. Mo raped her a few years later, while she was still playing with dolls.

        He is your exemplar.

        Like

      4. Um, distracting again? Your Bible says puberty makes a person an adult.

        Still waiting for the evidence of “rape”. You know, something along the lines of Numbers 31:18? 😉

        Oh and let’s not forget that apparently your god had a thing for Israel. The old man was evidently attracted to the pubescent Israel. Yeesh….

        Like

    4. Paulus

      Lying britney. That conclusion was your words verbatim. You tried to sneak in the number 8, to conveniently allow Aisha’s rape to slide in, even though the source says nothing like that. In fact here is what the source actually says,

      “Girls were not considered “women” until age 12. These ages more or less correspond to the onset of puberty.“

      The “onset” of puberty. And besides Aisha was 6!!!! And raped at 9!!!

      So amount of red herrings exonerate your pedophile prophet. C’mon, the dude was in his mid fifties marrying a child. No reasonable human thinks such a person is a prophet of god.

      Like

      1. “Lying britney. That conclusion was your words verbatim. You tried to sneak in the number 8, to conveniently allow Aisha’s rape to slide in, even though the source says nothing like that. In fact here is what the source actually says,”

        Lying for Jesus again? I said that puberty was the minimum requirement and THEN I said that puberty can start as early as age 8, something that anyone with a basic background in biology would know.

        ““Girls were not considered “women” until age 12. These ages more or less correspond to the onset of puberty.“”

        HAHAHAHA. It says “more or less”! Stop lying for Jesus! Again, there is no set age when puberty starts. It can vary based on many factors, such as climate.

        So no amount of distractions will save you. Your ignorance has been wholly exposed! You’re embarrassing yourself!

        Like

      2. And apparently the irony of saying that “girls were not considered women until age 12” doesn’t seem to dawn on you. Let’s see if you can figure it out. LOL!! Hint: it has something to do with modern views.

        Like

      3. Hey Stew, your comment posted almost exactly when mine did! I guess Cerbie didn’t seem to see the irony. Considering a 12 year old as a “woman” is a big no-no in the secular world that Cerbie is so proud of.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. ” C’mon, the dude was in his mid fifties marrying a child. No reasonable human thinks such a person is a prophet of god.”

        hanzeer kristian, so if prophet was 30 and ayesha was 12, u would be fine ?

        Liked by 2 people

      5. Walter R.M Shaad

        lol

        “You tried to sneak in the number 8, to conveniently allow Aisha’s rape to slide in…”
        ——————-
        When infact QB said…
        “So, the Bible states that the minimum requirement for marriage is puberty, which can occur (depending on various factors), from as early as age 8 in girls.”

        Basic biology man…basic biology…

        Liked by 2 people

      6. Paulus

        Look, you can use the rabbinal literature all you like, but you still muhammad marrying a 6 year old. And raping her at 9. He was mid fifties.

        He is your exemplar. But we know you are embarrassed because you won’t be consistent (thankfully) with your own family.

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  3. paulus where does the bible say that the 30,000 virgins did not have any sexual practice performed on them? where did the bible say anything about waiting till the girls grew up ? when hebrew brought in his child bride to his house, what activity was performed on her?

    any hebrew who took in the young girls to his house would not find one place in the bible about abstaining from sex with children.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18&version=NLV

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  4. Paulus

    “So Cerbie is apparently obsessed with the happy marriage between Muhammad (peace be upon him) and Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her). “

    “Aisha said, ‘I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'”

    “Aisha narrates, “He struck me on the chest which caused me pain.”

    Yeah, real happy 😂😂

    The abused often become fixated on their abuser.

    Like

    1. Paulus

      Not really.

      Just proving that Aisha clearly wasn’t happy married to an old man that beat her.

      Now, when are you moving to Arabia to follow the true deen?

      Like

    2. Paulus

      You say happy marriage.

      Aisha says muhammad used physical violence and hurt her and that Muslim women were suffering.

      Protecting the perpetrator

      Like

      1. STILL deflecting? Goodness gracious, you must be really embarrassed after realizing what your Bible says about puberty and marriage, huh? Brother Stew, I think we can nip this in the bud. Cerbie is too much of a coward to admit when he has been cornered.

        We can conclude that puberty is the minimum requirement for marriage, according to Biblical rules. So what does that mean for the Bible in modern times?

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  5. stewjo004

    @ Paulus
    None of this is “rabbinical literature” (if we use that its DEFINITELY a done deal and is still used by Christians btw) the Bible from Gotquestions (an apologetic site) says the Bible supports marriage at puberty all the points about quoting Jewish law is that it helps clarify what the Bible is saying:

    The Hebrew language also supports the idea that puberty is a requirement for a legitimate marriage. Ezekiel 16 contains a metaphor for God’s relationship to Israel. In this passage, God cares for Israel, pictured as an orphaned girl in various stages of development. The Lord first sees her birth, then watches her grow up: “You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown. . . . Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you” (verses 7–8). In this illustration, it’s only after the girl arrives at physical maturity, sometime after (not during) puberty when she is “old enough to love,” that she is ready for marriage. Other translations say the girl “grew tall and came of age” (NET) and “grew up, matured, and became a young woman” (GWT).

    Hebrew, as English, uses different words for younger and older members of either sex. Naˈar refers to young men, while yeled refers to boys age 12 or younger. For females, naˈarah means “a marriageable woman,” while yaldah refers to a girl 11 or younger—too young for marriage. Once again, these words and definitions seem to enforce the idea that the onset of puberty is a requirement for marriage. Before that time, a boy or girl is not of an age to be married.

    @ Everyone else
    Here we go again guys like the “taph” in Numbers it’s about to be a big circle about denying what is being said in Hebrew.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Paulus

    “the Bible supports marriage at puberty”

    What’s this got to do with muhammad marrying a 6 year old and raping her at 9?

    “In this illustration, it’s only after the girl arrives at physical maturity, sometime after (not during) puberty when she is “old enough to love,” that she is ready for marriage. “

    You better tell that to Britney. He was trying to argue that girls as young as 8 fit into this category.

    “For females, naˈarah means “a marriageable woman,” while yaldah refers to a girl 11 or younger—too young for marriage.“

    You’ve just refuted britney!! Remember, he is trying to sneak 8 year olds into the mix. Now, more problematically is that Mo not only married a 6 year old, he raped a 9 year old who was even “too young for marriage”, as you say.

    Your red herring only demonstrate how depraved and evil muhammad was

    Like

    1. Oh my goodness? Is Cerbie really this dumb? Brother Stew, I will let you have the honors of embarrassing Cerbie. HAHAHAHA!

      Isn’t it funny that Cerbie STILL has yet to realize the significance of the Bible’s rules on marriage? Even if 12 was the lowest age possible for marriage (it wasn’t), that STILL creates a big problem! Hmmm, I wonder what modern people would say about marrying off a 12 year old?

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      1. stewjo004

        @Qb
        Don’t get distracted, before I talk about what Paulus quoted from me.

        @Paulus
        Do you accept that the Bible at this moment been proven that the minimum age of marriage is 12? Yes or no? If not why?

        We can get to Aisha(ra) in a sec, but I need an acknowledgment that puberty is the age for marriage.

        Liked by 1 person

  7. https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2018/07/god-and-genocide-atheist-answers.html

    i was just wondering if pig paulus will even dare defending his bible at this blog. comments section is free.

    one point in that article which i didn’t think of before really stood out :

    ” 17 “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.
    18 “But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.”

    Most Christians are justifiably scared of this biblical bullshit, and quickly change the subject by talking about how the new covenant in Christ is one of Grace and we are not commanded to kill each other any more, etc. Many Christians personally hate the OT. We grant the concession of defeat.

    /////

    we no pig paulus hates the ot too, he thinks his “new covenant” is better than the stuff which went on in the ot.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Paulus

      Weird.

      I guess Muslims hate the violent Medinan Surahs over the peaceful Meccan one’s too, based on your reasoning?

      You hate God for initiating the new covenant. It makes you polemics useless 😂😂

      Like

      1. no, we don’t. it isn’t like your filthy porn filled bible and the violent killing of pregnant women and children. you are mental retarded pagan christian. we love the medinan surahs

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Paulus

        I can tell you love them cause you’re clearly a jihadi tony (what’s with the kafir name btw?)

        Shame your violent medinan surahs abrogate your secular peaceful ones, ay, britney.

        Your desperate to appeal to the old covenant to compare God to muhammad. You’ll even commit shirk to save face 😂😂

        Like

      3. Lol!! Obviously I don’t believe in your silly bipolar god you idiot! I don’t believe that the true God would have allowed killing babies. The Medinan surahs give permission to fight one’s oppressors, but there were rules to follow. It wasn’t like your old god telling his satanic minions to kill everyone, except in the one instance where the little girls were spared. Yikes, what kind of a god is that?

        Liked by 2 people

      4. “I can tell you love them cause you’re clearly a jihadi tony (what’s with the kafir name btw?)”

        so how many terroristic plots are you planning you pagan jihadi jesus follower? is it going to be surprise terroristic attack on a mosque like jihadi jesus did on jewish temple? you are the jihadi scum bag , i wouldn’t be suprised you are part of network which wishes harm upon muslim and muslim infrastructure.

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    2. Paulus

      Tony posts this and I’m deflecting? 🤣🤣

      Seems you’re still embarrassed by the shame of having a child raping, wife beating exemplar.

      Do you beat your wife aswell as per your exemplars example?

      Is your wife “suffering” as the believing women did with muhammad?

      Like

      1. You’ve been deflecting this entire time! 😂😂

        We’re still waiting for you to clarify if you accept that the Bible makes puberty the minimum qualification for marriage. So, will you answer Stew’s question or will you continue to…deflect? 😂😂

        Like

      2. ///////

        Seems you’re still embarrassed by the shame of having a child raping, wife beating exemplar.

        Do you beat your wife aswell as per your exemplars example?

        Is your wife “suffering” as the believing women did with muhammad?

        ////

        1. where do the christian texts say that pre-teens could not be raped after 1 month ?
        2. women job in christianity is to turn the other cheek and obey husbands. if a woman is beaten for disciplinary purporses , this is NEVER called a sin, because LOVE in crostianity can entail violence and disciplinary beating is part of love.

        so from biblical perspective child rape, wife beating is completely fine.

        jesus had absolutely no problem with a woman who got abused by her husband, jesus told you guys to allow yourselfs to be abused and raped. you should be praying for your abusers and rapists , paulus. pray paulus, pray.

        Liked by 1 person

    3. comment section is still empty. i thought by now cerbie would find some guts in himself to supprot the terroristic jihad of jihadi jesus in ot, but cerbie has chickened out.

      go on dog, lets see how well u do against jones , we are all wanting to see the holy ghost in action.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. the sad thing which really is saddening is ALL TYPES OF APOLOGETICS is used to defend the horrific in the ot and nt, but when it comes to our RASUL PBUH , they have no COMPASSION and say, you know if we apply our apologetics on muhammad, He will be beacon of HOPE and light. but no, injustice. injustice to muhammad pbuh.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. stewjo004

    @ Qb and Tony
    You guys let Paulus distract you too much. Whenever Paulus can’t answer an objection he will throw a random insult to get off topic just think rationally at the flow of conversation:

    Paulus: Ah ha! So Muhammad didn’t marry at puberty proving he’s a sinner!
    Stew: Okay so is puberty the minimal appropriate for marriage?
    Paulus: No that’s you Mooslims interpretation of rabbinical literature!
    Stew: No that’s the Hebrew used in the Bible. So do you accept this or no?
    Paulus: Uhhh… Violent Medinan surahs! They abrogate peaceful ones!

    What does “violence in Scripture” that have to do with the topic of the minimum age for marriage? Paulus clearly sees the bind he’s in with what the Bible says and what is considered “right” in a secular society. Just keep pushing whether he agrees that puberty is the minimum age for marriage or not.

    @ Paulus
    So Paulus do you agree with the Bible or no?

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Walter R.M Shaad

      “he will throw a random insult to get off topic just think rationally at the flow of conversation…”

      lol exactly what i pointed out yesterday. It applies to Paulus’ Jesusian pom-pom girl as well, i’m sure you already met her here…

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Paulus

        Hmm, seems “shaad, who began on BT trying to be a nice and reasonable person has finally displayed his true muhammadan nature.

        Welcome shaad, it’s freat to have another muhammadan fanatic present. We all knew the facade you had wouldn’t last long…

        Just as a note, every comment I made hear is in response to a muhammadan point. If you claim Aisha was happy I can easily prove she wasn’t. If you want to put the old covenant against the new, I can do the same with the Meccan and medinan surahs. But I get it- muslims hate being shamed and embarrassed so you’re trying to save face.

        Like

      2. Hmm, funny how Cerbie the loser is criticizing others for reacting to a bigot like himself. It’s only natural for someone who has known you long enough to see what kind of a person you really are, so don’t blame Shaad for treating you like the garbage you are. When someone comes across something lying on the ground, the first reaction is not to turn away in disgust. It’s only when that smell hits you, and you realize that it is garbage (or roadkill), that you turn away. That’s how it is with you. Ew, stinky Cerbie, the dog of hell…

        Also, I seem to remember the first time you made your ugly presence known on BT. You appeared to be a reasonable guy, and did not exhibit the irrational and idiotic hostility that you show now. So don’t pretend to act high and mighty. Anyone who gets to know you will eventually realize that you are an idiot and not deserving of any respect.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. “If you want to put the old covenant against the new,”

        I don’t get this “new cov” BS

        you eat pig, so did the ancient greeks
        you worship divine beings, so did the ancient greeks
        you want to live under a system where ALL gods from ALL religions should be allowed, SO DID THE ANCIENT GREEKS, so did the canaanites, yhwh didn’t like the PEACE loving pagan gods back in those days, why not ? he himself was a PAGAN cannanite god who was the son of el elyon

        sacrificing yourself for a friend EXISTED back then too.
        giving charity, drinking wine and worshipping just one day of weekend existed back then too.

        what is this bloody NONSENSE “NEW covenant”
        ?

        i really don’t understand why christians who were kissing greek ass needed to CREATE peters bs VISION about ALL foods being permissible. why not just come out and say that they HATED the ot? why FABRICATE lies to settle disputes?

        WHAT IS “NEW” IN “NEW COV” ?

        Like

      4. Walter R.M Shaad

        well, well, imagine my surprise when i saw this in class, Paulus replying to one of my comments after almost one year of no contact on BT.

        So i hurt your feelings old man? Need a shoulder to cry? Well considering you’re the one calling me a fanatic so i guess you fail to see the irony as well…no need to put a facade of holiness when pointing out my behaviour old man, i’ve known you for long enough to know how inpudicus your shamounian nature is so stop pretending you that you find my behaviour shocking…

        I’m still the same old “nice and reasonable” Walter who was on BT, but well you can’t expect me to judge you only after a few encounters and start being rude so that’s why i was nice, infact you can ask Joel how very friendly i was with her but well at end of the day it seems the old man and his pom-pom girl turned put to be shamounian filths…

        Anyway, glad i touched a nerve old man 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Paulus

        haha, what shall we call britney then, if not a pom-pom girl for shaad?

        Britney, still waiting to see if you emulate your prophet by beating your wife? Are you gunna answer or keep hiding?

        Like

      6. Haha, still waiting on you to answer the question about puberty. Are you gunna (sic) answer or keep hiding? And do you even have a wife? Can any woman even stand your presence for 5 minutes? 😉

        Like

      7. Paulus

        so youll keep hiding it seems.

        do you need to check with imam stew before you answer, in case you contradict each other again?

        Like

      8. Paulus

        perhaps pom pom dancer shaad will come to your rescue…

        it does make one wonder why you cant even answer a simple question like whether you beat your wife like Muhammad did to aisha. Do you follow the sunnah muhammadan?

        Like

    2. But it’s fun humoring the dog, Stew! And by goading him to change the subject, we’re actually proving our point. Cerbie can change the subject all he wants, but when he does, he is shooting himself in the foot.

      Like

      1. Paulus

        Britney.

        I’ve already shown that Aisha wasn’t happy. That muhammad beat her. The Muslim women suffered.

        So, instead of running this time, answer whether you follow your exemplars example.

        Do you beat your wife?

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      2. Cerbie, what is the minimum age for marriage according to the Bible? Don’t run away now! Deflections will not help you.

        Oh and by the way, you didn’t prove anything, except that you were frantically Googling to find some sort of deflection.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Paulus

        Do i really need to embarrass you again by citing the source you provided? Hmm, what did they say again? Something about the Bible not giving providing a “minumum requirement”as you call it. Remember, we don’t follow the actions of a sinful man like you do Muhammad.

        Like

      4. Lol, you must be living in a dream world of denial! Do i really need to embarrass you again by citing your God’s attraction to a pubescent Israel? Quite a coincidence that your god was apparently turned on by Israel’s breasts huh?

        Like

    3. Paulus

      Oh dear, you muhammadans still don’t understand descriptive content vs prescriptive. Which is why it is pointless answering your (cough) objections. Regardless of what a Christian says you’ve already made your mind up and won’t listen to anything.

      Muslim 1- “what the bible says on marriage”
      Muslim 2- cites random website which states the bible gives no age
      Muslim 2- cites another source that says only after puberty
      Muslim 1- but it has to include 8 year olds to save muhammad
      Muslim 2- let’s draw the conclusion and say 12 from a rabbinal interpretation

      All Muslims- ok, let’s draw the conclusion the “minimum is 12” when we’ve already cited two sources that refute that such a minimum is stated anywhere. We’ll also splatter random comments and pretend the Christian is deflecting. This might save face.

      Dumb, and dumber…

      Like

      1. LOL!!! So Cerbie is again deciding that he knows better than everyone else! Even when Christians confirm from Biblical evidence, Cerbie still is too proud to admit it! But does Cerbie present his own evidence to counteract the one given? NOPE!! We are just supposed to take his word at it. Sorry Cerbie, but your denial is your own problem. We can;t help it if you are liar, a coward, and probably the biggest dummy in Christendom!

        Like

      2. Looks like Cerbie is asking for more humiliation. We will need to show more evidence from Christian sources on what the Bible says about marriage and puberty. OK, hang in there Cerbie. Your humiliation is just beginning!

        Like

      3. stewjo004

        @ Paulus
        Sooooo…. God used “descriptive language” to describe His relationship with Israel that just so happens to coincide with a 12 year or younger old girl in Hebrew? What strange coinkidink. Especially when we then combine with the fact that Jews (i.e the people who the Book was given to and who Christians are the offshoot of) in another strange “coinkidink” hold the same view as Muslims do.

        AND THEN when we combine it with Numbers in which the “Taph” were young girls (which you have yet to prove any lexicon, Jewish or Christian scholar wrong) AND THEN when we combine it with the fact that David and Abishag (who was also a young woman and a “taph”) AND THEN when we combine it with the fact that you can’t site ONE source that agrees with you the evidence is firmly on the side that puberty is the age for marriage.

        But instead of talking about your original contention (i.e that Aisha(ra) was too young for marriage) you’re trying to bring into the discussion the completely unrelated topic of “violence” in the Qur’an. That is literally thee definition of a deflection. What evidence other than “this is my Paulus’s personal views that I need to help me sleep at night and rationalize my beliefs ” do you have? You’re usually real quick to try and throw some random article (which the author usually provides no evidence) Why is that not the case now? If you believe we’re wrong then according to the Bible when should people marry Paulus?

        Liked by 2 people

      4. Paulus

        Stew- I think you need to get your lies straight. They are a little crooked…

        Is the description in ezekial about a 12 year old or younger (your current claim) or is it as you previously stated,

        “”In this illustration, it’s only after the girl arrives at physical maturity, sometime after (not during) puberty when she is “old enough to love,” that she is ready for marriage.”

        And besides, you still havent addressed how you embarrased britney who was trying to include 8 year olds into the picture’.

        Its pretty obvious- you are embarrassed by muhammad marrying a 6 year old and raping her at 9, not to mention beating her later on in life, that you’ll throw any sort of mud in the hopes of making it stick. Fail.

        Like

      5. Bwahaha, Cerbie really must he living in denial! Stew actually showed that puberty can start in girls as young as 8. This Is Basic Science! Maybe you should take a class in human biology?

        Your god described Israel as having breasts and long hair, directly referring to puberty! The old man was apparently attracted! It’s kind of like El in the Canaanite pantheon. He too was sexually promiscuous. Lol!

        Like

      6. Rotfl! Apparently you’re too daft to realize that your god was describing Israel using sexual terms, but what makes it significant is that he was describing Israel’s maturity after puberty! The source states that puberty was the minimum requirement. You’re still running from the facts!

        Like

      7. Paulus

        Oh britney, my little pom pom dancer. Problem for you is the text stew cited is clear that what is described is POST PUBERTY. Imagine that, a Muhammadan caught lying! Shock horror!! But as Ive said numerous times now, I get it. You are ashamed that Muhammad married a prepubescent girl and raped her before she was a post puberty woman. So you’ll just lie and fabricate things and hope no one checks your sources..

        6 “‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”[a] 7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.

        8 “‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.

        Like

      8. Oh Cerbie, you dog of hell. How later do you think your god walked by? This should be good…

        So apparently describing Israel’s breasts is perfectly fine huh? Would you deem it okay to describe a pubescent girl in such terms? I get it Cerbie. This story is embarrassing and the history of your religion doesn’t help your case. It’s no secret that Christians had no problem with marrying off their daughters at young ages.

        Like

      9. Paulus

        I dont know. It doesnt say. It simply makes the clear observation that being “old enough for love” was POST PUBERTY.

        Unlike Muhammad who married a prepubescent child and raped her before her body was ready. What a sinner you emulate!!

        Now, back to your cheerleading squad britney, you have much to practice.

        Like

      10. Walter R.M Shaad

        “pom pom dancer shaad…”

        Not the worst comeback attempt i’ve seen but certainly among the bad ones, maybe you’ll be able to touch a nerve just like i did with much more training, put it 10 years of practice unless Alzheimer strikes you first in your old age home…

        Anyway now that you obviously seem to be begging for my attention i’ll be kind enough to fulfill your request…i’ll be simple, striking the chest (sometimes with his fingers iirc) was a technique he used to ward of wrong and evil thoughts and on top of that it’s pretty ironic that Aisha didn’t even consider it as beating or abuse. It’s like saying the doctor is a criminal because he mutilated his patient during surgery…prove me wrong 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      11. Paulus

        “put it 10 years of practice unless Alzheimer strikes you first in your old age home…“

        Not the worst comeback, but certainly up there among the worst. Put in a few years away from muhammadanism and you might have a shot 😜

        Liked by 1 person

      12. Walter R.M Shaad

        “Not the worst comeback, but certainly up there among the worst. Put in a few years away from muhammadanism and you might have a shot”

        lol the granpa’s tryna be cool in his comebacks but it got worse, well sticking to that little game of ours, basic comprehension shows my comment wasn’t supposed to be a comeback in the first place, you’re the one who has to trigger me enough to accuse you all sorts of stuff just like you did…seems you got rusty at the
        game old man, even kids know the rule 😜

        By the way, what about your response, no answer? Come one now don’t ruin the fun and run way, we’ve got so much to discuss on this subject…

        ~Walter

        Like

      13. Walter R.M Shaad

        Oh i forgot, good luck keeping up with me old man…let me know if you can’t keep up, i’ll go easy on you…😄

        Like

      14. Paulus

        Well, it shouldn’t be hard to trigger a snowflake muhammadan like you. Give it a few comments and you’ll self implode like britney and stew usually do.

        If you’re lucky, we may even re baptise you with a new name. After all, what’s a young pimple popping buck like you doing with a name like Walter? Perhaps you’re the old man pretending to be young?

        Liked by 1 person

      15. “After all, what’s a young pimple popping buck like you doing with a name like Walter? Perhaps you’re the old man pretending to be young?”

        😂😂😂😂😂😂

        This must be one of Cerbie’s dumbest statements to date! What, does the name “Walter” imply someone is old? There are no young people named Walter?

        Like

      16. Paulus

        Look, your Pom Pom cheerleader is here shaad. It’s great that you have him here to hold your hand through the humiliation of being a muhammadan.

        It’s his specialty

        Like

      17. Walter R.M Shaad

        Oh boy look at the meltdown, nothing’s funnier than pissing off a senior citizen on the internet…keep it up, your comebacks are getting worse but i’m glad that you keep trying…i’ll like the comment as it made me chuckle, seems you’re losing the game old man 😉

        By the way, where’s your Jesusian pom pom girl? She’s supposed to be cheering you up whenever you’re losing and judging from what’s happening here it’s high time she comes….

        Liked by 1 person

  9. stewjo004

    @ Paulus
    Reading comprehension is weird sometimes. The reason you put what is called “quotes” is because you’re repeating what someone else said. The thing you keep saying I “claimed” is me quoting the website NOT me Stew personally talking. Because it’ clearly shown that you didn’t read and only skimmed I’ll try to break things down simpler for you:

    1. Puberty starts at multiple ages ranging from 8-12 on average for females. (This is Qb’s “age 8” point)
    “The average age for girls to begin puberty is 11, while for boys the average age is 12. But there’s no set timetable, so don’t worry if your child reaches puberty before or after their friends. It’s completely normal for puberty to begin at any point from the ages of 8 to 14. The process takes about four years overall.”
    https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/stages-of-puberty-what-happens-to-boys-and-girls/

    “Most girls start to go through puberty sometime between the ages of 9 and 13.”
    https://sexetc.org/info-center/post/when-does-puberty-happen-and-what-changes-when-does-it-happen/

    2. The Jews “12 age” is simply them averaging
    The verse you’re quoting without understanding is stating in essence “Israel was brought up like a girl into a post-pubescent age. This is NOT referring to a fully grown woman (which is Got Question’s point) In Hebrew like Arabic, the words will give you an idea of the age. The word used in Hebrew is equivalent to “kawaib” in Arabic. A female who is “kawaib” in this context means she is at the stage in life when her breast starts to develop (i.e beginning puberty at around the 8-14 range) The SAME thing is happening in this verse, Israel is like the girl whose breast are starting to develop. The “12 rule” is the Jews simply averaging “ahh for most people this is the age but it’s referring to that “range”. Hence me bringing the quotes to explain this to you

    With everybody so far?

    3. Taph means very little children

    So the “taph” that was given by Moses(As) allegedly are infants to adolescent children and can’t be teenagers or women because the word itself means in general small children. So the point here is that:

    1. Multiple prophets were married or had concubines who were “taph” according to the Bible.
    2. The age of Muhammad(saw) and Aisha(ra) is not considered weird because as can be shown it was common practice and you would be forced to reject several prophets.
    3. You have yet to bring any evidence to the contrary that the marriage is wrong according to the Bible are essentially saying “my culture doesn’t do that, therefore, it’s wrong.”

    Liked by 1 person

  10. “I dont know. It doesnt say. It simply makes the clear observation that being “old enough for love” was POST PUBERTY.”

    no you retarded piglet, “pass by” could mean that god was GOING to HUMP israel . the earlier verse ALREADY said israels boobs and hair were showing, i.e NAKED. then yhwh COVERED naked israel and humped it. so the “pass by ” could be referring to the ACT of copulation .

    your breasts were formed and your hair had grown. Yet you were naked and bare.

    yhwh was in the mood for humping, naked israel was in HEAT and yhwh was in mood for copulating . the “pass by” is simply REFERRING to act of sex.

    israel got turned on for intercourse, but it does not mean that 16:7 means israel was horny. when israel became horny, yhwh humped it. don’t you find it disgusting that yhwh was getting a pre-teen horny ?

    quote :

    I don’t deny that a some females consummated marriage at an early age. Maybe even at 12. But some girls enter puberty earlier and progress faster than other girls.

    response :

    That’s right. the reality of precocious puberty means it is possible that in Ezekiel 16:7-8, God was thinking about a 9 year old girl whose breasts and public hair had grown, as the template for his allegorical language.

    Like

    1. “I dont know. It doesnt say”

      you kafir FILTH bag, here is the arabic

      عريانة وعارية.
      فمررت بك ورأيتك واذ زمنك زمن الحب

      notice it uses “fa” and the “fa” is connecting back to the PREVIOUS sentence , your time /zamaan was time for love is israel became horny .

      marra /yamarra for FOR copulation. 3aryaan = NAKED . israel was in PROCESS of getting horny . your god was TURNING on a PRE-TEEN!

      Like

  11. “‘Now when I passed by you, and looked at you, look, your time was the time of love;

    Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, and, behold, thy time was the time of love

    “Then I passed by you and saw you, and behold, you were at the time for love

    nd I passed by thee and looked upon thee; behold, thy time was the time of love

    ow when I passed by you, and looked upon you, behold, your time was the time of love;

    and looked on you, behold, your time was the time of love

    Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love

    and I passed by thee, and saw thee: and behold thy time was the time of lovers

    Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love;

    Now when I passed by you, and looked at you, behold, your time was the time of love;

    Young’s Literal Translation
    And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time is a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness

    Like

  12. ////////////
    And comest in with an excellent adornment, Breasts have been formed, and thy hair hath grown — And thou, naked and bare!

    8 And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time [is] a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine.

    ///////////////

    and I SEE thee….

    this is talking about a pre-teen which is stared by yhwh. yhwh is looking at detail. BREASTS, hair, nakedness….what kind of a god talks language which causes one to pluck his eye out ?

    Like

  13. stewjo004

    @ Shaad
    I’m going to go ahead and piggyback off you. Notice that no one who quotes this ayat or their random hadith never quote ANY scholarship that supports their “interpretation”:

    ‘A’isha reported that Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) never beat anyone with his hand, neither a woman nor a servant, but only, in the case when he had been fighting in the cause of Allah and he never took revenge for anything unless the things made inviolable by Allah were made violable; he then took revenge for Allah, the Exalted and Glorious. (Muslim 2328)

    Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri:
    I went to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abi Dawud 2143 graded Sahih by Albani)

    Abdullah bin Zam’ah reported: The Messenger of Allah said:
    How does one of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace her? (Bukhari 5695)

    ‘Abdullah bin Zam’ah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported that he heard the Prophet (ﷺ) giving a speech when he mentioned the she- camel (of Prophet Salih) and the man who had killed her. Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
    “When the most wicked man among them went forth (to kill the she-camel).’ (91:12) signifies that a distinguished, wicked and most powerful chief of the people jumped up to kill the she- camel.” Then he (ﷺ) made mention of women and said, “Some of you beat your wives as if they were slaves, and then lie with them at the end of the day”. (Riyad As Saliheen quoting Bukhari and Muslim)

    The Prophet would also warn women in the community about men who would beat their wives. Fatimah ibn Qais reported that the Prophet warned her about marrying a man who was known to beat women, saying to her:
    …As for Abu Al-Jahm, he frequently beats women. Rather, you should marry Usama… (Muslim 1480)

    Abu Hurairah narrated that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said:
    “DO you know who the bankrupt is?” They said: “O Messenger of Allah! The bankrupt among us is the one who has no Dirham nor property.” The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w) said: “The bankrupt in my Ummah is the one who comes with Salat and fasting and Zakat on the Day of Judgement, but he comes having abused this one, falsely accusing that one, wrongfully consuming the wealth of this one, spilling the blood of that one, and beating this one. SO he is seated, and this one is requited from his rewards. If his rewards are exhausted before the sins that he committed are requited, then some of their sins will be taken and cast upon him, then he will be cast into the Fire.” (Jami` at-Tirmidhi Book 37, Hadith 2603 graded Sahih)

    On at least 2occasions, the Prophet(saw) separated a man from his wife because he struck her:

    Ali ibn Abu Talib reported: The wife of Al-Waleed ibn Uqbah came to the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and she complained to him saying, “O Messenger of Allah! Indeed, Al-Waleed has beaten me!” The Prophet said, “Say to him: he has protected me.” She did not stay but for a while until she returned and she said, “He did not give me anything except more beatings!” The Prophet tore a piece of cloth from his shirt and he said, “Say to him: Verily, the Messenger of Allah has given me protection.” She did not stay but for a while until she returned and she said, “He did not give me anything except more beatings!” The Prophet raised his hands and he said, “O Allah, you must deal with Al-Waleed for he has sinned against me twice.” (Ahmad 1257, graded Sahih by Ahmad Shakir)

    “…Habiba bint Sahl married Thabit ibn Qays. Thabit beat her and she went to the door of the Messenger of Allah in the morning in the darkness to COMPLAIN ABOUT HIM. She said, ‘I will not remain with Thabit. ‘The Messenger of Allah said, ‘Take back from her what you gave her.’ SHE HAD A … DIVORCE from him for what he had given her, and she remained with her family.’” Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir (“The Women Of Madina” by Muhammad Ibn Sa’d)

    The Arabic word ‘Iddribunnah’ (translated as “beat”) is used in the ayat about making Tayyamum (dry wudu). Do Muslims punch the earth when they make tayammum? No. So, when one looks at the verse, in a historical perspective, it has always meant in a symbolic way. The Prophet(saw), for example, would do this with men as a means of catching their attention.

    Abu Dharr reported:
    The Prophet struck my chest with his hand and he said…(Muslim 1825)

    In this example, the Prophet struck Abu Dharr(ra) on the chest before giving him an important lesson about leadership. The Prophet(saw)did not intend to hurt him, but instead, he wanted to get his attention.

    Same thing with the hadith Paulus quoted when Aisha(ra) followed him in a fit of jealousy thinking he was going to another wife’s house on her night:
    He said: “So you were the person that I saw in front of me?” I said: Yes. He gave me a painful shove on the chest, then he said: “Did you think that Allah and His Messenger would be unjust to you?”

    So long story short:
    1. Overwhelming evidence against spousal abuse
    2. The Arabic for “beat” (more accurate “strike”) is used for the ayat on Tayammum
    3. The “strike” is meant to get the person’s attention
    4. No Scholar, Sahaba or Tabieen ever thought the ayat means a woman can be harmed
    5. The woman whom “abuse” is claimed said she was never abused lol

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Walter R.M Shaad

      Ah appreciate the gesture bro 😄 i was keeping it simple just for fun…The good old Rudolf Wanderone aka Minnesota fats style…

      Like

      1. Walter R.M Shaad

        I’ll add two more Hadiths as a bonus…

        “Ubbay said: There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, saw how I was affected, was affected (by a wrong idea), he struck my chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allah in fear.” (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 1356)
        “The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, hit the chest of Umar bin Khattab with his hand three times when he embraced Islam and he said, ‘O Allah remove the malice from his heart and replace it with faith.’” (Mustadrak al-Hakim, Hadith 4492. Hakim authenticated it)

        And the hadith about Aisha that Stew quoted is quite a conundrum for those who advocate that Mohamed beat her…

        Liked by 3 people

    2. Walter R.M Shaad

      Stew, one more…

      It was narrated that Jarir bin ‘Abdullah Al-Bajali said:

      “The Messenger of Allah never refused to see me from the time I became Muslim, and whenever he saw me he would smile at me. I complained to him that I could not sit firmly on a horse, so he struck me on the chest with his hand and said: ‘O Allah, make him firm and cause him to guide others and be rightly-guided.'” (Sahih)

      Liked by 4 people

      1. stewjo004

        @ Shad

        Nice ones akhi, there are many ways to skin a cat lol. I respect the simple approach, the only problem it has is it tend to not work for argumentative people. So then I have to go with the “bury them in a mountain of evidence” method.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Well lookie here! So Cerbie’s frantic Googling only further exposes his ignorance! The poor dog merely copied another idiotic and brainless crosstian who took 1 hadith out of context and ignored the other few dozen hadiths which show the Prophet’s exemplary character. The crosstian holy spirit is getting desperate, it seems.

        Like

    3. Paulus

      Quran (4:34) – “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great

      Quran (38:44) – “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath

      “I was a guest (at the home) of ‘Umar one night, and in the middle of the night he went and hit his wife, and I separated them. When he went to bed he said to me: ‘O Ash’ath, learn from me something that I heard from the Messenger of Allah” A man should not be asked why he beats his wife, and do not go to sleep until you have prayed the Witr.”‘ And I forgot the third thing.”

      Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that “It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary.” He went on to say that “one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior,”

      Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife “recognizes the authority of her husband in the house” and that he may use physical force if he is “sure it would improve the situation.”

      Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam’s most prestigious institution says that “light beatings” and “punching” are part of a program to “reform the wife”

      Egyptian cleric, Abd al-Rahman Mansour, said in a 2012 televised broadcast that, in addition to discouraging the wife from filing divorce, beatings would inspire the wife to “treat him with kindness and respect, and know that her husband has a higher status than her.”

      “admonish them, but if they refused to repent, then tie them up in their homes and beat them until they obey Allah’s commands toward you.”- tabari

      Well look hear, evidence from Koran, Hadith, traditional scholars and modern ones, all supporting the idea of beating your wife.

      You’ve been “buried with evidence” stew 😂😂

      Like

      1. LOL, more cut and paste comments from Cerbie! Notice now that he has moved away from the hadiths, after literally getting buried in an avalanche of evidence and now is referring to fatwas by scholars. But all scholars have clarified (and this is a consensus) that “beating” implies not using violence but rather like a slap on the wrist. DING, DING, DING!

        As I wrote in my article on the Chick tract “Is Allah Like You?”:

        In fact, “beating” is only allowed as an absolute last resort, when other measures do not work. Moreover, according to the Sunnah of Muhammad (peace be upon him), this last resort is only applicable when one’s wife:

        “…allows herself to converse with men against her husband’s wishes or…commits some grievous transgression (fahisha mubayyina), a phrase with sexual innuendo…”[29]

        In addition, according to Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Adam Al-Kawthari, other reasons for disciplining one’s wife can include when:

        “…she is physically or verbally abusive, slanderous or violates Islamic rulings…”[30]

        Not only that, but as with disciplining one’s child, “beating” one’s wife for the above transgressions can only be done “with a light blow that leaves no mark”.[31] It is also well known that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) never beat any of his wives and strongly discouraged others from doing so.[32] As Jonathan Brown states:

        “[a]ll available evidence of Muhammad’s own conduct shows a complete aversion to domestic violence.”[33]

        In addition, Islam gives an abused woman the right to seek a divorce on the grounds of domestic abuse. As Brown explains:

        “…any physical harm was grounds for compensation and divorce since the Prophet had limited striking one’s wife to a ‘light blow that leaves no mark.’ Causing any injury thus meant that a husband had exceeded his rights.”[34]

        So once again, “Ahmed” and “Uncle Yousef” (and by extension, Jack Chick) were completely wrong!

        Finally, we should point out that, while Islam does not prohibit a woman from teaching a man, Paul of Tarsus, the alleged “apostle” of Jesus (peace be upon him), stated in clear words that he did not (emphasis ours):

        “…permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man…”[35]

        Thus, it is quite ironic that Chick’s pseudo-Muslim character “Ahmed” said that:

        “[n]o worthless woman tells her husband what to do!”

        This was an embarrassing blunder by Chick, as it sounds more like the teachings of Paul rather than the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him)!

        In the endnotes, I wrote:

        “To this, Al-Kawthari adds:

        “[t]he idea is not to hurt one’s wife, but merely to discipline and make her realise that her behaviour needs to change. It’s more like a ‘tap’ on the shoulder than a hard strike, and even this is best avoided” (p. 98).”

        “According to Brown:

        “[i]t became received opinion among Sunni ulama from Iberia to Iran that, though striking one’s wife was permitted, other means of discipline and dispute were greatly preserved, more effective and better for the piety of both spouses” (Ibid., p. 276).”

        So Cerbie gets buried by yet another avalanche of evidence! 😂😂

        Like

      2. Paulus

        😂😂😂

        Yeah, sure. I bet when tabari taught people to tie up their wives and beat them, he meant slapping them on the wrist 🤣🤣

        When Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, taught people to “punch” their wives, what he really meant was slap them on the wrist 😂🤣🤣

        Oh you’re really embarrassed this time that your western version of Islam is wrong.

        But let’s run with it- do you slap your wife on the wrist britney to punish her?

        Like

      3. 😂😂

        Running away from the avalanche again? Can’t say I blame you!

        Do you have any actual references for Tabari? His commentary is very clear that “beating” implies minimal force and no intention of bodily harm. So go on Cerbie. Provide the reference. Do your frantic Googling. I’ll wait here.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Beez Games

        Alright, lets speak about wife beatings if you really want to go there.
        Now first of all about 4:34, Noble Verses 4:34-36 “(34). Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

        (35). If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

        (36). Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;”

        The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is “idribuhunna”, which is derived from “daraba” which means “beat”. The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word “daraba” is that they don’t necessarily mean “hit”. The word “idribuhunna” for instance, could very well mean to “leave” them. It is exactly like telling someone to “beat it” or “drop it” in English.

        Allah Almighty used the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 14:24 “Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? — A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens”. “daraba” here meant “give an example”. If I say in Arabic “daraba laka mathal”, it means “give you an example”.

        Allah Almighty also used the word “darabtum”, which is derived from the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to “go abroad” in the sake of Allah Almighty:

        “O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: ‘Thou art none of a Believer!’ Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)”

        So “daraba” literally means “beat”, or “go abroad”, or “give” but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.

        Now about 38:44,
        There is no green branch,stop enforcing your BS onto the verse
        [We said], “And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] and strike with it and do not break your oath.” Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah ].

        Thats the proper translation.

        As for hadith, lets go to hadith
        Chapter no: 11, The Chapters on Marriage hadees, hadis, hadith
        172 Hadiths In This Chapter. Page 15 Of 18

        Hadith no: 1984
        Narrated / Authority Of: Aishah
        “The Messenger of Allah (saw) never beat any of his servants, or wives, and his hand never hit anything.”

        Want more proof?
        “A’isha reported that Allah’s MESSENGER NEVER BEAT ANYONE WITH HIS HAND, NEITHER A WOMEN, nor a servant, but only, in the case when he had been fighting in the cause of Allah and he never took revenge for anything unless the things made inviolable by Allah were made violable; he then took revenge for Allah, the Exalted and Glorious.” (Sahih Muslim Book 30, Hadith 5756)

        We can go on and on Paulus, but you know you know nothing about the Quran. all you have are assumptions, thats it.

        As for the hadith you mentioned, you mentioned a hadith from a lower graded source and even the hadith you mentioned is Sahih ONLY ACCORDING TO DARUSSALAM, no other scholar no other imam,no other shaykh in history agrees ever with this hadith except Darussalam, so therefore judging by consensus, we can easily say, this hadith is FALSIFIED and is not a true hadith.

        https://sunnah.com/urn/1263050 See for yourself, its only Hasan according to Darussalam,not sahih.

        As for the Scholars you mentioned, Yes there is light beatings,even according to your Bible, if your wife went out with another man, Im pretty sure some people in America would kill their own wives,now contrast that to only lightly beating her as a warning not to be like that.

        “To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” Genesis 3:16
        “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.” Ephesians 5:22-23

        ” If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.” [1 Corinthians 11:6-7]

        Now what if the woman doesnt serve the man, well lets see the Bible.
        “Young people take pride in their strength, but the gray hairs of wisdom are even more beautiful. A severe beating can knock all of the evil out of you!
        [From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 20:29-30]”

        So what is more evil? severely beating the wife? or just hitting her with a small stick to warn her?

        Liked by 2 people

      5. stewjo004

        @ Paulus

        Oh man so you were able to write ALL that but can’t tell me what the age of consent in the Bible is lol?

        Next you literally didn’t answer ANY of my CLEAR CUT evidences and didn’t cite ANY of your sources (again) so in reality all that goes out the window just on that alone. Even IF I just for the sake of discussion said okay we’ll allow the points
        Explained 4:34 already as for 38:44 this has nothing to do with family relations let’s take the look at the whole verse:
        “Take a small bunch of grass in your hand, and strike with that so that you don’t break your vow.” I found him patient in adversity, how excellent a servant, he always came back to Me in repentance.(38:44)
        The prophet Job(as) in a fit of rage when his wife questioned God’s will said he was going to lash her. God told him to pick up 100 blades of grass and tap her with it to fulfill the oath.
        Wow your “scholarly research” and “mountain of evidence” wasn’t even smart enough to look up the context to it’s citation.
        Most of the “quotes” (again with no citation) don’t contradict what I said or the real sources that I cited said. “Beat lightly” admittedly doesn’t make sense in English (most due to the fact that the best we can say for a light hit is a “tap”) but their saying the symbolic hit that I said.
        Even if Tabari had this opinion (which I’m like 98% he didn’t because I’ve read a good portion of his work and these people who will more than likely be in the lowest level of Hell like to half quote to deviate others). It would be counted as his “Fiqh opinion” which has no bearing on “Islamic law” (aka Shariah).

        Next because you’re ignorant about Islam and clearly copied and pasted your answer:

        Al Azhar is not “Sunni Islam’s most prestigious institution” it has several Aqeedah issues that the Egyptian government actively promotes. It has been on a steady decline in the Islamic world and scholarship since minimum the 50s.
        The ISNA is not an authoritative organization either all it does is host conventions every year. But no one goes: “Oh the ISNA said” an average Muslim would look at you crazy if you cited that as “proof”. This “citation” was almost laughable to any Muslim and was clearly targeted at ignorant westerners who don’t know any better.

        Alright now that that’s cleared up stop deflecting to random tangents Paulus and explain to everyone what the proper age of consent is in Pauline Christianity and how you got your answer sir.

        Liked by 2 people

      6. Walter R.M Shaad

        Seems to be a minstranslation, The verb (DaRaBa) which is translated as “beat” should be rendered as “cite” and can even be “leave” but both “beat” and “leave” seems not to properly fit the context, so it should be “cite” like “cite” them to the authority in case of no resolution, so another weak attempt by the old man…

        @Everyone including the old grandpa, this study is a goldmine…

        http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html

        As for the hadith about Umar he quoted, the chain seems to be defective according to hadith experts, classified as daeef…on top of that there are many authentic statements where Mohammed says not to beat wives so better luck next time old man…

        Like

      7. I agree with Stew that the word actually can only mean beat. But as the overwhelming evidence shows, this is not violent “beating”. Cerbie can whine all he wants but Islamic scholarship has had a consensus on this matter for centuries.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Walter R.M Shaad

        Yeah maybe but i think it’s good to point out that the verb has different meanings in the Quran like Beez posted some examples so that alone pretty much makes it a weak argument by polemicists…so yeah like Stew pointed out it may fit the context so as the other 2 meanings…

        Liked by 1 person

      9. Walter R.M Shaad

        *correction, “leave” can also fit the context, depending on the situation so sorry about that little mistake…

        Like

  14. israel don’t believe in “new covenant” i told you “old covenant” is NEW for the yahoodis.

    quote :

    There is a frequent conflict between ultra-Orthodox, non-ultra-Orthodox, and secular residents over restrictions on women’s dress and gender-segregated seating on public buses. Extremists there frequently clash with police attempting to remove signs calling for public gender segregation.

    jesus’ ACTIONS IN THE temple were EXTREMIST too. jihadi jesus would be called EXTREMIST today by christians .

    Like

  15. stewjo004

    @ Beez GAmes

    Salamualakum wa rahma tu lahi wa barakatu.
    Hi Beez and welcome to the blog. Paulus is only referencing “wife beating” to avoid the bind he’s been put in. A few days ago he tried to go after Muhammad(saw) and Aisha(ra). After proof was established through the use of Hebrew lexicons and Christian scholarship yesterday he threw out a string of subjects to try and divert the topic of a woman getting married young.

    Great post but there was something I wanted to discuss, 4:34 cannot mean to “go away” because darb’s meaning can only change if there are other prepositions around it like ‘an’ or ‘fee’. In Arabic, the only meaning by itself is to hit. If there was a proposition I would agree but due to the lack of it and the multitude of hadith in which the Prophet(saw) used it that is that ayat’s correct meaning.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. stewjo004

    @ Shaad

    It’s true a word can have multiple meanings in Arabic however context can change the meaning of a word and render others impossible. In English for example:

    “I have no space in my trunk”

    “Space travel is very hard on the trunk of your body”

    The meaning of “space” and “trunk” changed because of the word’s context in the sentence.

    The meanings “leave”, “depart” etc. CANNOT fit in the Arabic language without the prepositions I mentioned. If those prepositions were there then that argument would be semi valid but these other meanings are grammatically impossible in the Arabic language.

    The argument of leave is weaker than this but it’s like someone saying that first sentence:
    “I have no space in my trunk”

    Means that the galaxy cannot be contained in my body. It’s weird and unnatural right? Without the “an” or “fee” you cannot alter a word’s standard meaning into another definition. Even in the ayat that were quoted the have those prepositions, the proponents who are arguing this would have to show where a definition like that without the preposition exist in the Qur’an. In my point you noticed when I used the words for the Tayammum there was no preposition to the strike. This shows that the the strike is not hard because again no one punches the dirt when making Tayammum you more or less tap it.

    This recent “leave”, “go away”, etc. argument was started by the Quranist in one of their many attempts to falsify hadith. I even checked your link and without fail in the about section:

    “I thought The Quran would support the traditional Hadith/Sunna but it didn’t. In fact, it was anti-Hadith itself!”

    Yep clear cut statement of kufr (not calling him a kaffir just what he is saying is kufr)

    One thing about “Quranist” is I have never met one who was semi competent in the language. (If you don’t believe if you look at their “tafsir” they’ve now created they claimed Surah Adiyat is about rocket ships lol) The context fits fine and strike is the more appropriate part because of the end of the ayat. A rule of thumb in the Qur’an is when Allah mentons His names or attributes they relate to the ayat in some way. For example, when He does a law He usually says something along the lines of Him being “ Al Aziz (The Almighty), Al Hakeem(The Most Wise)” referring to the fact that He is the Authority and the Most Wise in His laws. Allah in 4:34 says (My personal translation)

    Men are to stand responsible as the maintainers and guardians of women, because God has given one extra over the other and because they spend their own money on them. Righteous women are devout and keep safe what God has ordered them to protect when not seen. As for the ones who you fear raise themselves up above this, first remind them gently, then ignore them while you’re in your bed chambers and then you may tap them. But if they stop and start to listen to you again, you have no right to act against them. God is the Most High and Great.

    He uses His names “The Most High” and The Most Great” to emphasize to men to not be arrogant with the authority He has given to us. Now I personally follow the opinion given that the context and nature of the ayat is referring to if a wife committing an affair and not general because Allah says righteous women “guard what they’ve been ordered to protect when not seen” implying their chastity. Then Allah says as for those (i.e. women) who think their above this… then the sequence begins. Remember the man has been passive the entire time and the symbolic tap is one last emotional outburst to make her realize the gravity of what she’s doing and who she’s hurting (also fitting with Aisha(ra) hurting the Prophet’s(saw) feelings when she thought he was going to another wife’s house.) but Allah hu alim at the end of the day. But I can say pretty positive that “depart” “leave” are not correct.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. stewjo004

        So I read through the article that you linked (to see the reasoning):

        First, it still wouldn’t work because you need those prepositions. If we had no hadith and the ayat had those prepositions I would favor him. But you have to have the prepositions or proof of a time of lack of prepositions not meaning strike.

        Second, he stated: “It has been shown that there is not one clear occurrence in The Quran in which “beat” is the meaning of DRB. It seems that the default meaning of DRB is “to put/show forth (from one person/place to another person/place)”.

        This is wrong. Darb’s default meaning is always hitting something and again darb appears in the ayat of tayammum. Do we “leave” the earth or cite the earth no we hit it.

        I could be wrong and maybe Qb or Tony can chime in but my understanding is you cannot change a word’s meaning without a preposition.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Walter R.M Shaad

        Stew do you mind if i ask QB for your email address? Sometimes i have questions and stuff and i need someone knowledgeable to help…

        Like

    1. stewjo004

      @ Palus

      Glad you’re back. I wasn’t arguing or anything we were discussing Scripture. No problem in that.
      Next, were you finally able to look into what the “appropriate” age of consent of the Bible is?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Walter R.M Shaad

        @Stew, he infact quoted QB’s comment from BT, it’s about something else…well talking about “something else”, old man’s been avoiding the question lately…#CowardiceForChrist 😉

        Like

      2. Paulus

        I’ve said repeatedly that the bible is silent on a specific age, but it is clear that it is post puberty.

        Which is a problem for muhammad and his 6 yr old bride.

        Do you honestly have no shame emulating a man who marries a child when he is mid fifties?

        Like

      3. Paulus

        Hi Shaad.
        Seems I’ve touched a raw nerve of yours. I wonder if you beat your wife? Do you have a child bride? Or are you just another westerner with a victim complex who’s chosen Islam as a facade?
        #willyourunaway

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Walter R.M Shaad

        Hi old man 😄
        “Seems I’ve touched a raw nerve of yours.”

        Ah well sorry to disappoint you old man, been two days and all your comebacks have given me is a chuckle, not bad but certainly the worst, seems that game is not made for an old man like you after all…

        “I wonder if you beat your wife? Do you have a child bride? Or are you just another westerner with a victim complex who’s chosen Islam as a facade?”

        Single

        “#willyourunaway”

        Just like you usually do? Nah i’m good…

        Like

      5. Paulus

        “seems that game is not made for an old man like you after all…“

        You’re right- I’m not into underage marriage and abuse. I’ll leave that for your muhammadan brethren.

        Speaking of which, stew is looking for a suitable bachelor for his toddler in a few years. Given your single…

        Weird that you harp on about “old men” without knowing anything about me, but more importantly, you emulate an old man who raped a child. Seems some old men are better than others…

        Like

      6. Walter R.M Shaad

        “You’re right- I’m not into underage marriage and abuse”

        Weird, I thought it was self evident i was talking about your comebacks, guess you need some help on reading comprehension…”comprehension” lol, pretty silly of me to expect “comprehension” from an old man…

        “Weird that you harp on about “old men” without knowing anything about me”

        Exactly my point old man, weird you accused me of putting up a “Facade” without knowing anything about me…i know you’re stupid but certainly not stupid enough for figuring out why i’m calling you an old man. Now that you asked me personal questions, well you’re 40? Still seems old enough to keep using
        that term 😄

        “Seems some old men are better than others…”

        Ha! Seems you felt targeted…So at last you’re old, great! Thanks for admitting it 😜 so stop whining now xD

        Like

      7. Walter R.M Shaad

        “Or are you just another westerner with a victim complex…”

        Ah well can’t say much because of privacy, well Caucasian is the least i can say, up to you to guess from which people i come from…

        sorry by way, shouldn’t have been so rude in my comments, i take back all that i said and also what my friend Beez said…i’m the one to be blamed…i have no idea what went through my head to start a fight and the kid got influenced, so don’t blame him…@Everyone, i’ll be more mature from now on…

        Liked by 1 person

      8. Walter R.M Shaad

        QB, i get you bro but i feel as if i’ve been too rude with this guy, Paulus has always been nice with me as far as i remember and then i just come here and start a fighting with him and now suddenly i’m starting to feel bad and worried whether i hurt this guy or not, on top of that i feel like a bad influence on Beez…

        i’ve been insulting Christians and even sometimes even Muslims in general for no big reason since the past few weeks which means something’s wrong, maybe hormones i don’t know…my behavior has been disgusting it seems…i’m gonna apologize to the christians on BT as well, need to give myself some good old spanking Cary Grant style…damn i’m starting sound like a drama queen…

        Liked by 2 people

      9. Joel

        stew

        Next, were you finally able to look into what the “appropriate” age of consent of the Bible is?

        God, you guys are something else – you would do and say anything to defend your profit’s sick sexual appetites.

        Christians are taught to love others as we love ourselves – not take advantage of 6 year old children to satisfy sick lusts for the vulnerable. Children cannot make rational decisions which is why they are parented – else the Lord would have made us like other beasts who are autonomous almost as soon as they are born.

        It is not loving to satisfy ourselves at the expense of others.

        Also, answer Paulus’ question: would you guys marry a 6 year old and have sex with a 9 year old? If not, why? Is it a bad example?

        Like

      10. Joel

        toni

        Classic islamic apologetics – use atheist arguments against christianity because mohammed and allah were too ignorant of the torah and NT to formulate a meanigful attack on christian belief.

        That aside, christians are not obliged to find the examples of human prophets to be exemplary for all time, so regardless of one’s feelings about Numbers, I’m not obliged to find this episode to be good example for my own conduct.

        On the other hand, mohammed would be imprisoned in the modern world for child rape and abuse, yet, you are commanded to view his behaviour as not vile in the least and, in fact, his behaviour is the model for yours. Your religion commands child sex.

        Like

      11. “That aside, christians are not obliged to find the examples of human prophets to be exemplary for all time, so regardless of one’s feelings about Numbers, I’m not obliged to find this episode to be good example for my own conduct.”

        why isn’t KILLING WOMEN and children good EXAMPLE from BIBLICAL perspective ? why not ?
        are you ashamed of the ACTS of god and moses? are you ASHAMED of yhwhs COMMANDS? and i DARE you to post there.

        let us inform about moses.

        moses is the one who “the pure”
        “the holy”
        “the loving”
        spoke to IN FRONT OF THE MASSES

        moses is called the “meek and the humble”

        moses gets CHOSEN IN PUBLIC eye. moses has DIALOGUE with yhwh.

        moses is CHOSEN by god AND THE PEOPLE

        moses is the one who says “listen to ALL THAT I COMMAND YOU…..”

        THIS IS yhwhs CHOSEN….YOU HEAR THAT ? yhwhs CHOSEN !

        now this CHOSEN OF yhwh told people to go and KILL children who were 3 year of age. this chosen of yhwh

        MOSES DOES WHAT GOD TELLS HIM TO DO….. “I AM COMMANDED WHAT TO DO….”

        MOSES KILLED WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

        you as a crosstian cannot see the CUTTING OF NECKS, the slicing of PREGNANT women, the rape of CHILDREN, the smashing of CHILDREN by the sword as IMMORAL , OTHERWISE u would say that your god who is “holy” commands IMMORALITY. IF GOD DOES NOT COMMAND IMMORALITY , THE KILLING IDOLATROUS WOMEN, ADULTERERS, WITCHES ETC ETC CANNOT BE SEEN AS IMMORAL EVEN IF IT IS PERFORMED TODAY.

        “DO ALL THAT I COMMAND YOU”

        WHAT is your job as a crosstian?

        “Those who bless you are blessed and those who curse you are accursed” (Numbers 24:9)

        your job is to bless israel and not to criticise the people who see the ot as APPLICABLE FOR ALL TIMES.

        so you must listen to israel , you are a gentile animal who has to PUT israel first. your ot itself says so.

        Deuteronomy 30:2 reads – you will return to the Lord your God and hearken to His voice according to all that I command you today – the “I” is Moses – this is repeated in verse 8

        Like

      12. “Christians are taught to love others as we love ourselves”

        so was moses, but when god told him to KILL, he was STILL loving god, because command from god was seen as “holy” and “truth”
        so moses was RIPPING humans because of gods loving command.
        the jews were TAUGHT TO LOVE OTHERS TOO, but that does not mean that killing religious enemies was wrong. the jews were told to KILL the canaanites, that doesn’t mean that they stopped loving their neighbour. they were LOVINGLY killing their neighbour. love love love and love.

        when the hebrews went to disabled, pregnant, unborn , infants, animals AND SLICED them, do you find this EVIL or do you find this a COMMAND OF GOOD ?

        ANOTHER QUESTION :

        WHERE did yhwh say “just keep the 10 commandments you gentile pagans and LEAVE OUT ALL MY RIGHTEOUS AND JUST punishment rules ” ?

        Liked by 1 person

      13. “, mohammed would be imprisoned in the modern world for child rape and abuse”

        so you just urinated on bible and christian history which practised pre-teen marriage. you must be ashamed of the “fruits” nt and ot produces. it produced pre-teen sex and nt-ot authors , christian “practicers” would ALL be IMPRISONED in the MODERN world for child RAPE and abuse.

        Like

      14. “On the other hand, mohammed would be imprisoned in the modern world for child rape and abuse, yet, you are commanded to view his behaviour as not vile in the least and, in fact, his behaviour is the model for yours. Your religion commands child sex.”

        your religion makes you imagine that yhwh has sexual intercourse with women with tits and pubic hair. your religion makes one imagine that god gave shit laws and the only choice he has was to come out of a vagina , SUCKLE on boobs, get killed to cool himself down. NOW tell me , do you VIEW the act of KILLING pregnant women as commanded by your god, AS VILE?

        your religion commands mind abuse, for example :

        Study the Bible
        Easy-to-Read Version
        Ezekiel 23:20
        She remembered her lover with the penis like a donkey and a flood of semen like a horse

        thats saying that yhwhs reproductive organ was not good enough in bed. how you teach this shit to your daughter?

        Like

    2. https://turchisrong.blogspot.com/2018/07/god-and-genocide-atheist-answers.html

      And comest in with an excellent adornment, Breasts have been formed, and thy hair hath grown — And thou, naked and bare!

      8 And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time [is] a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine.

      /////////

      can you explain why youngs literal connects verse 8 to the previous verse?

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Even if there was no connection between the two verses, in verse 7, God is describing a girl in puberty in frankly graphic terms! He is describing her breasts and hair! Now some translations have tried to hid the significance of the hair. You might read the translation and think that it is referring to long hair on the girl’s head. But NO! According to both Christian and Jewish commentators, the “hair” is a reference to a sign of puberty. In other words, God was describing the growth of PUBIC HAIR. This should make Cerbie squirm!

        Barnes’ Notes states about verse 7:

        “I caused “thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou” didst increase “and” wax “great, and thou” didst come “to excellent” beauty; “thy breasts” were “fashioned and thine hair” was grown, yet wast “thou naked and bare.” The prophet has arrived at the time at which the child grew up to maturity.”

        Notice that it says “maturity”. What does that mean? The girl is pubescent and is already being described as being “mature”.

        The Jewish Study Bible states:

        “God wills the abandoned infant to live. She lives and grows to puberty. ‘Live in spite of your blood’, may also be understood as ‘live because of your blood,’ and with this understanding these words are incorporated in the circumcision ceremony. 8: Upon reaching puberty, she is ready for marriage… ”

        Puberty means the girl is ready for marriage!

        And here is what the Jewish commentator Rashi said regarding the girl’s hair:

        “and your hair grown: Signs of puberty.”

        Like

      2. i am wondering if there is a possibility that things are consecutive. yhwh sees naked girl , goes to her and tells her she is ready for copulation. i am wondering if the “passover thee” is another way to say “time for copulation”

        And comest in with an excellent adornment, Breasts have been formed, and thy hair hath grown — And thou, naked and bare!

        8 And I pass over by thee, and I see thee, And lo, thy time [is] a time of loves, And I spread My skirt over thee, And I cover thy nakedness, And I swear to thee, and come in to a covenant with thee, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And thou dost become Mine.

        they call young LITERAL because he is doing the literal translation of the hebrew. if you look at the arabic , it seem like the “fa” is CONNECTING to the previous verse.

        god/yhwh saw a NAKED girl. god WENT TO THE naked girl and told her that her body is ready for love

        you wrote :

        Notice that it says “maturity”. What does that mean? The girl is pubescent and is already being described as being “mature”.

        ///

        and then we see youngs literal and verse 8 seems to be talking about this NAKED mature girl which yhwh wants to make love to.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. astagfirullah man, the almighty is describes as one who wants to hump a woman with breasts and hair. i mean what biggest curse in the mouth before he uttered the crap and attributed it to the almighty ?
        no matter how one sugar coats it, one imagines a god humping a woman .

        ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.

        9“ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you

        here god is describe as cleaning the blood after coitus. , astagfirullah.

        “god is love” they say

        then we have god saying the following :

        Study the Bible
        Easy-to-Read Version
        Ezekiel 23:20
        She remembered her lover with the penis like a donkey and a flood of semen like a horse.

        that would mean yhwh wasn’t satisfying israel in bed. MAY THE ALMIGHTY CURSE THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS shit about HIM….

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Ezekiel 23 is interesting. It clearly states that Jerusalem (Oholibah) was in her youth while in Egypt:

        “She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her” (23:8).

        According to Christian commentaries, when Ezekiel 16:7 describes how Israel had developed breasts and long hair (referring to the pubic hair), it is referring to the time in Egypt:

        “I caused “thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou” didst increase “and” wax “great, and thou” didst come “to excellent” beauty; “thy breasts” were “fashioned and thine hair” was grown, yet wast “thou naked and bare.” The prophet has arrived at the time at which the child grew up to maturity. God preserved the life of the infant which must without His help have died Ezekiel 16:6; and the child grew up to womanhood, but was still desolate and unprotected. This represents the sojourn in Egypt, during which the people increased, but were not bound, as a nation, to God by a covenant” (Barnes’ Notes).

        So apparently, Jerusalem had become the whore during her youth in Egypt, when she had entered puberty. The evidence is overwhelming now. Cerbie just has to face the facts. Living in denial will only make things worse.

        Like


    3. Christians are taught to love others as we love ourselves – not take advantage of 6 year old children to satisfy sick lusts for the vulnerable”

      define vulnerable and prove that in EVERY ENVIRONMENT children ARE vulnerable. i am ONLY using BIBLICAL reasoning here, i am not advocating for marrying 5 year old, i am not yhwh .

      define “love others”
      when one child is married, the child is loved and looked after. bible says be “fruitful and multiply”
      so hebrew could have taken it easy on child by performing oral acts .wouldn’ t that be “loving the child” ?
      i am ONLY using BIBLICAL reasoning here.

      you said “sick lusts” ? ACCORDING TO your SUBJECTIVE feeling ? if it is in a MARRIAGE , like hebrew porking a pre-teen, how is it SICK lust ? they KILLED 3 year old CHILDREN, wasn’t there a SICK LUST for KILLING 3 year old?

      you can’t say “marriage with child ” = “sick lust
      and KILLING 3 year old IS NOT “SICK lust”

      U cANt do this.

      WHY DID christian COUNTRIES FOR hundreds of years MARRY of PRE-TEENS ?

      THEY were reading ot and nt, why weren’t CHILD marriages seen as “sick lust” ?

      Like

      1. Cerbie is lying through his teeth again. But let’s go with it. If “post-pubescent” (notice how he is deliberately being vague) is the minimum requirement, what happens when a girl starts puberty at age 8? Cerbie can deny it all he wants, but it is a biological fact that some girls can start puberty very early. Some may start very late. There is no standard. Here is what biology tells us:

        “…in healthy girls puberty may begin earlier than the textbook age of 8 years…”

        “Breast development is the earliest sign of true puberty and may occur in healthy white girls as early as age 7 and even earlier in African American girls.”

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1070801/

        So Cerbie still has a major problem on his hands. No wonder he is being so vague.

        Like

  17. dcci bum wrote :

    “Christians are taught to love others as we love ourselves
    – not take advantage of 6 year old children to satisfy sick lusts for the vulnerable. Children cannot make rational decisions which is why they are parented – else the Lord would have made us like other beasts who are autonomous almost as soon as they are born.”

    you see what u r doing ? you said “children cannot make rational decisions which is why they are parented”
    okay, when hebrew soldier took in pre-teen girl and promised to her real parents that he would “parent” the child and teach her how to become reproducing woman….DO you really think bible gave a SHIT about “children CANNOT make RATIONAL decisions” ?

    “Christians are taught to love others as we love ourselves
    – not take advantage of 6 year old children to satisfy sick lusts for the vulnerable”

    any hebrew MARRYING a 6 year old WOULD not have seen it as LUST , but MARRIAGE. any oral sexual relation with his pre-teen WOULD NOT have been seen as going AGAINST the commandment of love.

    1. why have christian COUNTRIES FOR CENTURIES MARRYING OFF PRE-TEENS ?

    Like

  18. stewjo004

    @ Joel

    What? To begin Christians still take the prophets as examples (hence the whole point of mentioning their story and what lessons can be derived from them) Next, you’re criticizing Muhammad(saw) for actions that are way less severe than what the Bible accuses the prophets of. From my understanding, your argument is at its core because of Muhammad’s(saw) “bad character” he is, therefore, a false prophet. So then what do you think of the alleged evils the biblical prophets then are they false as well? Almost anything you attack Muhammad(saw) can be found at a much more serious level by people whom you agree are prophets. You’re literally defending God being accused of ordering the slaughter of surrendering women and children, it’s an inconsistency born from biases.

    Next, neither you nor Paulus has been able to provide what is considered the “proper” age for marriage since you want to criticize Islam for puberty., you actually have to come with a counter with what’s correct since you believe both Muslims and Jews are wrong on this. All it’s been are vague answers. Just because something because something is “wrong” or “right” in the “modern world” has no basis of if it’s okay with God, you’re confusing your culture with Scripture. For example, homosexuality or fornication was considered wrong many years back and now has general mainstream acceptance. So is God cool with it now? Obviously not. Humans constant changes in perception have no basis of right or wrong with God.

    Like

    1. Joel

      stew

      You are an ignoramus.

      Where in the bible are christians commanded to follow the example of the prophets in all things?

      It is the Lord working through the prophets that provides the examples, parables, commandments, and laws. Unlike islam, which is patched together from non-canonical christian writings, talmudic speculations, and pagan rituals and stories. Worse still, your most significant command – to follow the example of your profit in all things for all time – is bogus and reeks of human corruption.

      Why doesn’t allah himself provide the examples for muslims to follow in his “holy” book? Why must you rely on man-made works written centuries after the events are supposed to have happened for you god’s command to have any meaning? Clearly, the hadith are fake, and the command to follow the profit in the quran is probably added after mohammed’s death by his followers for political and religious gain.

      Again, though, the NT is clear: love others as you would love yourself. This is a clear injunction against selling off your kids to charlatan profits for their sexual gratification. We know that having sex with young kids is harmful which is counter to the command to love others as yourself. It isn’t hard – you are having such a hard tine because you know that mohammed’s lusts for kiddies is vile and indefensible. yet, you MUST defend it because your “god” commands that you find this disgusting behaviour exemplary.

      WHy does your god command child sex?

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Joel

        Why are you insulting me if I haven’t insulted you? Quite ironic to then quote “love your neighbor as yourself” don’t ya think?

        Next, please don’t assume things about me. Several points here:
        1. You still didn’t answer if “bad character” is proof of someone being a false prophet then what about what the Bible says about them? They are basically being accused of being the worst of creation and would be considered despicable by most cultures and nations.
        2. The murdering of unarmed women and children was on God’s command so no sin happened there.
        3. God cannot be followed as an example because He is not a human and is perfect, you cannot emulate God or else He wouldn’t be God. One of the reasons prophets are sent is to be followed and obeyed because they’re God’s Messengers speaking on God’s behalf. Like for example the movie 300, remember the “THIS. IS. SPARTA!!!!” scene? Why was this dishonorable and an act of war? Because Persia’s messengers represent Persia and to kill them is a declaration of war. The same thing goes for God’s “Messengers” to obey they’re instructions is to obey God. (hence their name).
        4. I don’t think someone should have sex with children either. I have no qualms however about a young woman getting married. I think you and Paulus are thinking in the terms of say a 4-year old’s mental, emotional and physical capacity. A woman in puberty ‘s is ready for a relationship, sex and giving birth (hence the whole point of the “puberty” thing) If you believe something is wrong okay no problem what do Christians say is right? Neither you nor Paulus has provided when it is considered “okay” despite being repeatedly asked. The Bible is very clear multiple prophets had younger wives or concubines and they were not criticized for it. I want textual evidence for where the sin is in a woman reaching puberty and getting married. (Also sorry to burst your bubble but most scholars believe Mary (Jesus’s(as) mother) was 12-14 so since you want me to “take God as an example” in Christina theology He has no problem with it either…)
        5. Finally, please present evidence for your claims about Quranic verses being added or hadith in general. Just because early Christian communities blindly followed anonymous scribes writings doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. Anybody can say anything but it’s much harder to do independent research and verification. If you asked me where there is proof of Biblical editing I can provide it to you. So where is your proof for Quranic editing?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. “Why are you insulting me if I haven’t insulted you? Quite ironic to then quote “love your neighbor as yourself” don’t ya think?”

        LOL, brother Stew, this is because moron Christians like Coco only use this teaching to to try to gain converts to their religion, but don’t practice it themselves. They are in fact hypocrites (the fruits of Christianity). But educated people will see through the act.

        Hey Coco, what’s the deal with menstruation man? 😉

        What on earth does the phrase “love your neighbor” have anything to do with the fact that your god set puberty as the standard for marriage? This was the global standard up until 100 years ago. Christians also commonly married their daughters off at puberty, and no church father or any other authority thought it was wrong.

        I like how you crosstians are so desperately trying to ignore the Biblical evidence in favor of your own personal opinions. Ezekiel 16 should make your feel very uncomfortable, since your god was graphically describing how Israel became “mature” when her breasts and pubic hair had developed. Yikes!

        As for the rest of your rant, as Stew pointed out, you presented no evidence. This is typical, and you have done this before. Mindlessly repeating old polemics that have been refuted thousands of times will not save you or your pagan religion. You need to catch up on the scholarship, Coco. Stop dancing around in your ignorance.

        Let me give you an example to refute the “copying” charge. If the Quran had copied from the Bible, then we would expect it to repeat the errors of the Bible. For example, in the story of Joseph as told in Genesis, the ruler of Egypt is called “pharaoh”. This is historically inaccurate as the term “pharoah” was not used to describe the Egyptian king until much later. It is an anachronism that the Biblical authors used because they were clueless about Egyptian history. But does the Quran repeat this error. NO! It refers to the Egyptian ruler in Joseph’s time as “king”, not “pharaoh”. The Quran CORRECTS the Bible. Ergo, it could not have been copied from the Bible, since we would expect the errors to be copied as well.

        Your religion is the result of centuries of editing and copying of ancient myths. Take the talking snake in Genesis for example. There is a myth in the Epic of Gilgamesh, where a snake steals the plant that would have given Gilgamesh eternal life. Quite a coincidence, eh? And of course, let’s not forget the fact that your god is described as an old man with white hair in the book of Daniel, just like the Canaanite god El. Not only that, but your god was also called “El Shadday” which was used by the Canaanites as a title for El. What this means is that the Bible has copied from pagan mythology and incorporated those myths into Yahweh.

        Now, do your dance Coco…or run away. Whichever one you prefer. 🙂

        Like

      3. Joel

        stew

        I haven’t insulted you, the problem is that the truth hurts.

        From my understanding, your argument is at its core because of Muhammad’s(saw) “bad character” he is, therefore, a false prophet.

        Your understanding is cognitively impaired. My argument is that flawed human beings should not be put forward as perfect exemplars for all time. Mohammed was a flawed humane being who – by his own admission – sinned and profaned his “god”. Yet you “holy” book commands muslims to follow his example in ALL things.

        This means that you are commanded to sin. So, either your god is evil and wants you to sin, or the demands of the “god” you worship are made up by a charlatan. Is that clear? Why would you be commanded to imitate sinfulness by a good god?

        Maybe you can explain how forcing a 9 year old to have sex with an old man is beneficial to her? We know that children who are forced to have sex incur huge psychological and physical harm – why would your evil god command you to view this behaviour as exemplary, and would you marry a kiddie?

        God cannot be followed as an example because He is not a human and is perfect, you cannot emulate God or else He wouldn’t be God. One of the reasons prophets are sent is to be followed and obeyed because they’re God’s Messengers speaking on God’s behalf.

        LOL!!

        Following and obeying does not mean copying everything about their behvaiour – that is uniquely islamic and specific to mohammedism. You have just given the reason for why we cannot follow mohammed in all things: he was not perfect, and he sinned – why would your god command you to emulate sinfulness? LOL!!

        I don’t think someone should have sex with children either.

        So allah was wrong and mohammed’s actions with Aisha were vile?

        Neither you nor Paulus has provided when it is considered “okay” despite being repeatedly asked.

        Truly loving someone means that you don’t harm them Having sex with 9 year olds harms them Having sex with kids harm them. Can;t be more clear than that.

        Also sorry to burst your bubble but most scholars believe Mary (Jesus’s(as) mother) was 12-14

        Sorry to burst your bubble but Joseph is not put on a pedestal to emulate for all time. Plus, in a dramatic show of your ignorance, Mary was virgin and remained a virgin until after she birthed the Lord. So your point is dumb.

        Finally, please present evidence for your claims about Quranic verses being added or hadith in general.

        The evidence is self evidence – your holy book commands you follow exemplify mohamed in all things, he sinned according to both your “god” and his own words, so clearly he is not a great example to be followed in all things unless your god wants you to sin. Why would your god command you to sin? Since it is unlikely that a true god would command sinfulness, it is likely that the quranic command to emulate mohammed in all things was added to the text and the hadith were shaped to this falsity.

        It’s basic reasoning.

        Like

      4. “I haven’t insulted you, the problem is that the truth hurts.”

        Yes, because calling someone “stupid” is not an insult! Lying for your sinful savior again, huh?

        Your entire rant is filled with non-sequiturs and faulty reasoning. We have already refuted the dumb claim that Muhammad (pbuh) was a sinner. He prayed for protection against sins, but that doesn’t mean he was a sinner. In contrast, your allegedly “perfect” savior was a true sinner. He destroyed people’s property and was caught lying through his teeth on at least one occasion.

        The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the perfect human exemplar because he followed God’s laws. He didn’t go around killing women and children. He didn’t commit adultery. He didn’t lie or destroy innocent people’s property. He married and lived amicably with this wives. These are the examples we follow.

        And again, there was nothing wrong in his marriage to Aisha (ra), even from the Biblical point of view. Yes, the truth hurts doesn’t it? It’s no wonder that your girlfriend Cerbie has run off, leaving you to embarrass yourself.

        Oh and as for Joseph, it doesn’t matter if he was an exemplar for all time or not. The fact is that he was much older than Mary. Not only did your god NOT criticize this marriage as “sinful”, he actually chose to be born in the midst of such a marriage! That leaves you in a conundrum. Your god saw nothing wrong with a 12-14 year old marrying a much older man. Get over it already, Coco. Your dancing will not help you!

        Like

      5. ” My argument is that flawed human beings should not be put forward as perfect exemplars for all time. Mohammed was a flawed humane being who – by his own admission – sinned and profaned his “god”. Yet you “holy” book commands muslims to follow his example in ALL things.”

        when moses was KILLING children, where was the flaw in this action ? where does yhwh say one should not emulate moses who yhwh DIRECTLY spoke to

        When the two of them stepped forward, 6he said, “Listen to my words:

        “When there is a prophet among you,

        I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,

        I speak to them in dreams.

        7But this is not true of my servant Moses;

        he is faithful in all my house.

        8With him I speak face to face,

        clearly and not in riddles;

        he sees the form of the Lord.

        when moses KILLS children , what was the FLAW in this action ?

        you said “perfect exemplars for all time….” WHERE DO YOU get this CRAP from the hebrew bible ?
        where did the bible say

        moses is not PERFECT EXEMPLAR therefore one should not FOLLOW him FOR ALL TIME.

        Liked by 2 people

      6. “We know that children who are forced to have sex incur huge psychological and physical harm – why would your evil god command you to view this behaviour as exemplary, and would you marry a kiddie?”

        ohh…you poor animal….you have concern for kiddies ? you feel for kiddies ?
        what about CHILDREN taken away from there parents and kept to be brides for sex? you just don’t get it do you, your god did ALL the crimes in the past through his “chosen ones”
        are you telling me canaanite children who were slaughtered did not feel pain ? when they saw their parents BUTCHERED they did not have psychological harm ?

        your god PERFORMED behaviour which you call “evil” this means your god is evil . do you agree?

        when a hebrew took a child bride, looked after her, performed all type of sex with her , what rule of “love thy …bs” did he break ?

        Liked by 2 people

      1. Joel

        stew

        All credible scholars – even the most skeptical ones – refute the silly islamic claim that jesus was not crucified. Not much else I can add to this huge body of work.

        Your task is to PROVE the islamic claim, not disprove the christian claim, since even if the christian claim was wrong, it does not mean that the silly islamic claim is true. This is basic reasoning.

        So go ahead, have a field day and PROVE THE ISLAMIC CLAIM. I suspect you will fail miserably.

        Like

      2. LOL, so Coco completely ignored the contradictions, historical errors and other inconsistencies which the same “credible scholars” point out as well! Nice attempt at moving the goal post Coco, but you still have a major problem in that your pathetic “gospels” are historical garbage which no reasonable person takes seriously!

        Your task is to PROVE why the gospels are reliable. I suspect you will fail miserably, which is why you are desperately trying to avoid the topic of the article.

        The irony of your statement “even if the christian claim was wrong, it does not mean that the silly islamic claim is true. This is basic reasoning.” is pure gold! By avoiding the uncomfortable truth about your gospels, and shifting to the Islamic claim about the crucifixion, you are still not solving the problem with the gospels. Even if the Islamic claim is wrong, it does not mean that the silly Christian claim is true. This is basic reasoning.

        So go ahead, have a field day and PROVE THE CHRISTIAN CLAIM. Or run away…whatever floats your boat!

        Liked by 1 person

      3. “All credible scholars – even the most skeptical ones – refute the silly islamic claim that jesus was not crucified”

        why do scholars trust josephus over the gospels ?

        Liked by 1 person

  19. “You are an ignoramus.”

    “Where in the bible are christians commanded to follow the example of the prophets in all things?”

    lol, pathetic . where does the torah which is PART of your bible tell the jews NOT TO emulate the prophets who were COMMANDED by god?

    since god is good and his commands are good this means his commands of PUNISHMENT and PRE-TEEN MARRIAGE are applicable for all times.

    if your daughter is prostituting herself to other gods, yhwh COMMANDS that you stone her to death.
    if your daughter is a satanist
    your son is a hindu

    and they are TEMPTING you and your family to seek the private parts of other gods, then yhwh, your god, TOLd you to STONE them to death .

    “It is the Lord working through the prophets that provides the examples, parables, commandments, and laws.
    Unlike islam, which is patched together from non-canonical christian writings, talmudic speculations, and pagan rituals and stories. Worse still, your most significant command – to follow the example of your profit in all things for all time – is bogus and reeks of human corruption.

    Why doesn’t allah himself provide the examples for muslims to follow in his “holy” book? Why must you rely on man-made works written centuries after the events are supposed to have happened for you god’s command to have any meaning? Clearly, the hadith are fake, and the command to follow the profit in the quran is probably added after mohammed’s death by his followers for political and religious gain.”

    here are the piglets assumptions :
    1. assumes that the quran was TREATED with disrespect from EARLY times just like the way his gospels were RAPED by many minds.
    2. fake hadeeth INFLUENCED text of quran
    3. POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS GAIN LOL, this would mean we would have QURANS NAMED ABU BAKR, ALI, AYESHA, MUAWIYA ETC ETC , you would have DIFFERENT parts of the quran REFLECTING the “forgeries”

    “Again, though, the NT is clear: love others as you would love yourself.”

    yhwh told the hebrews to love others aswell, where did yhwh say NOT TO emulate moses?

    ” This is a clear injunction against selling off your kids to charlatan profits for their sexual gratification. We know that having sex with young kids is harmful which is counter to the command to love others as yourself.”

    you know because you have experience from young age? how does the COMMAND to love others means that SEX with pre-teens is not allowed?

    how is it that biblical writers having sex with pre-teens AGAINST THE Command TO love others ?

    IF killing children is not AGAINST THE F@KIN COMMAND TO LOVE OTHERS, then how can pre-teen sex ?

    you said haveing sex with young children is harmful? this is not BIBLICAL. the christians in europe did not FIGURE that out when they sold of their 7,6,8,9, 10, 11, 12,13 year old girls. WHY DIDN’T they know about this ?

    “It isn’t hard – you are having such a hard tine because you know that mohammed’s lusts for kiddies is vile and indefensible. yet, you MUST defend it because your “god” commands that you find this disgusting behaviour exemplary.”

    filthy kafir, where do the hadeeths say that ayesha felt like she was VICTIM of rape?

    tell me what year you would have sold of your daughter if you were living hundred years ago? would you have married her of at 11 or 12?

    if you would have married your daughter of at 16, how many children would she have produced before a DISEASE wiped her out ?

    Like

    1. Joel

      toni

      you are stupid.

      Mohammed exceeded the limits of his “revelations”, just like him you take an absence of a command to be a command – that makes you a hypocrite and and idiot.

      I’ll take your dumb response to be an admission that there are no commands in the OT and NT to emulate human prophets above the explicit commands of Yahweh like muslims do with mohammed. You guys are ancestor worshipers and idolaters of a human being.

      Like

  20. “Again, though, the NT is clear: love others as you would love yourself. This is a clear injunction against selling off your kids to charlatan profits for their sexual gratification.”

    any person marrying a pre-teen from biblical perspective

    1. look after her
    2. take care of her needs
    3. if she was unable to take it, most likely other forms of sexual activity to prevent harm

    FROM bibilical perspective sex with minor was fine.

    you have to demonstrate how LOOKING AFTER THE NEEDS of pre-teen in MARRIAGE BREAKS THE RULE TO “love others as you would love yourself”

    your bible is pedophilic and bible NEVER EVER said pedophilia was a sin. bible mentioned sexual sins, but never mentioned anything AGAINST pre-teen marriage. WHY NOT ?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “your bible is pedophilic and bible NEVER EVER said pedophilia was a sin. bible mentioned sexual sins, but never mentioned anything AGAINST pre-teen marriage. WHY NOT ?”

      An excellent point. The Bible warns against homosexuality, rape (in some cases), bestiality, but never says not to marry a minor. The reason is simple. Puberty was considered the stage of maturity in all societies until modern times. Idiots like Coco are embarrassed by this and have sought to secularize their interpretations.

      Like

  21. stewjo004

    @ Paulus

    Regarding the crucifixion article, you’ll notice it’s a “series” meaning I have MORE to say about the passion narrative I just broke it up for length reasons. I will get into the Islamic view in a bit but first, we have to establish or reduce the credibility of sources obviously.

    Next, appealing to historians, in this case, doesn’t really help either of us because they are not looking at the supernatural. If you want me to take off my Islamic glasses and look at this from a historical secular perspective so to speak, I would think that historically Jesus(as) was some rabbi who claimed to be the leader of some world-changing apocalypse that never happened. Afterward, he was crucified and his followers realizing his false claims had to add in a resurrection tale to save face,much like the Jehovah Witness’s when they first started. Afterwards people started making up a whole bunch of tales about this rabbi and his original theology warped into what we have today. Putting my Islamic glasses back on, quite frankly the ONLY reason why I believe in Jesus(as) is because of the Qur’an’s defense of him which again will be discussed. So why don’t you go ahead and read it and if I said something wrong please show me because I really do believe the Truth is important whether for what I believe or against. Questions I’m asking about Christianity are my real issues with the religion. The only way I know if I’m on the truth is by allowing others to attack it. (Which is why I post on the blog)

    Liked by 2 people

    1. stewjo004

      @ Joel
      Sorry, I put @ Paulus as a habit. As a note without Islam, I would also somewhat favor as an alternative he(as) didn’t exist period.

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Joel

        As for the second post, okay now I understand what you’re saying:

        1. It’s already been established you guys twisting the hadith in question. There is no “sinning” (i.e prophet’s deliberately disobeying God) Even after the verse where God says He will forgive any past or present mistakes he(saw) was still praying forgiveness. This is simply humility.

        2. No one was forced to have sex the onus is on you to prove that (please see 6 below for more detail)

        3. No, just I don’t believe that when a child reaches puberty their a child anymore. The reason women have “menopause” is that at a basic layman explanation their body is cycling new eggs for fertilization. Once a girl hits puberty she is a woman that can produce children. Again you’re thinking like a 4 or 5-year-old, not a post-pubescent woman.

        4. That is not answering the question and that entire verse about love is subjective (you can also add the Golden Rule to this). I don’t believe their children so, therefore, there’s nothing wrong. Okay, you believe puberty is wrong, got that crystal clear. When should I “love a person for marriage” why do I have to keep asking this over and over again? Since you believe were wrong about puberty nature’s way of indicating adulthood what do you believe is okay then?

        5. Mary was 12-14
        Okay, I’m not talking about Mary’s husband Joseph (who you indirectly implied is a child molester.) I’m talking about God Himself. He impregnated a more than likely 12 year old.

        6 “evidence is self evidence” means nothing. Okay, it is “self-evident” that you and Paulus are in a homosexual relationship? See how ridiculous that sounds? What is the proof? Again if you asked me for proof of Biblical corruption (as Christians often and rightfully do) I would provide it. So you made a claim of Quranic corruption what is your evidence behind it?

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Joel

        stew

        What hadith are you talking about? Your “god” says that mohammed was a sinner…

        That Allah may forgive you your sins of the past and the future, and complete His Favour on you, and guide you on the Straight Path;

        Surah 48:2

        So know, [O Muhammad], that there is no deity except Allah and ask forgiveness for your sin and for the believing men and believing women.

        surah 47:19

        Whom should I believe, allah and his eternal word, or hadith written by human beings centuries after the life of mohammed?

        No one was forced to have sex the onus is on you to prove that

        The onus is on you to prove that a 9 year old can make such a significant decision to engage in sex with an old man. How can such a child be ready? Did she know about sex? Did she know that her body would be invaded in such a way? We know that children suffer physically and psychologically when forced to have sex.

        No, just I don’t believe that when a child reaches puberty their a child anymore.

        All that means is that you should not be allowed to be around kids under the age of 16.

        Once a girl hits puberty she is a woman that can produce children. Again you’re thinking like a 4 or 5-year-old, not a post-pubescent woman.

        You are just as disgusting as your profit. Would you have sex with a 9 year old?

        Answer the question.

        Like

      3. Joel

        stew

        5. Mary was 12-14
        Okay, I’m not talking about Mary’s husband Joseph (who you indirectly implied is a child molester.) I’m talking about God Himself. He impregnated a more than likely 12 year old.

        LOL!!

        I can;t believe I let this blasphemy pass – you guys will do anything to defend your kiddie loving profit. Are you really comparing mohammed’s inappropriate relationship with a kiddie to an act of God?

        You can;t make this stuff up. IS it okay for mohammed to have sex with little girls because Yahweh performed a miracle with a virgin?

        Se how islam makes human beings into blasphemers?

        Like

      4. LOL!!!

        So it was okay for your god to choose to be born in the midst of a child marriage, if he felt like it!? Oh you crosstians and your idiotic fallacies!

        Why didn’t your Canaanite god choose some other couple? Why didn’t he condemn the marriage instead, since you are so concerned about the health of young married girls? Didn’t Mary have children with Joseph? Why didn’t your god say anything about that?

        See how crosstianity makes you a dummy?

        Like

      5. “You can;t make this stuff up. IS it okay for mohammed to have sex with little girls because Yahweh performed a miracle with a virgin?”

        explain this “miracle”
        yhwh chooses a pre-teen virgin , impregnates by overshadowing and is delivered as “fully god and fully man” through pre-teen birth canal ? then he suckles pre-teen breasts. you don’t have any shame? the “mother of god” did not think she was feeding a paedophilic god?

        Liked by 1 person

    2. quote :
      Bart, why is it that all gospels say that jesus’ apostles and the women completely forgot that jesus would come back to life? if we were there and we asked these people “where is jesus”
      they reply ” he has gone to heaven, but we can convince you he is alive because we completely forgot that he said that he was going to come back to life, god put mass amnesia over us”

      “he is alive, we even forgot, when the women came to us we thought it idle tales”

      Bart July 22, 2018
      My sense is that when the followers of Jesus came to believe in the resurrection, they couldn’t *imagine* that it had come as a surprise to Jesus himself, and so they made up predictions by him that it was going to happen; but then they had the problem of explaining why it had come as a surprise to *them*. And so they invented stories of their own forgetfulness. It’s hard to see how Jesus could really have told them about it in advance and they just forgot that part….

      Liked by 2 people

    3. hey joel , just a thought

      since yhwh is a timeless being, then doesn’t that mean his exit from vagina would be experiential knowledge which is timeless? how about those temptations which were homosexual, wouldn’t they be experiential in knowledge and timeless? doesn’t that mean yhwh ALWAYS had experiences ? since jesus was BAPTISED , then wouldn’t he say a forgiveness prayer after his baptism ? wouldn’t that be a timeless experience within the triune being ?

      Like

  22. stewjo004

    @ Joel

    P.S.
    You said you didn’t insult me, “You are an ignoramus.” isn’t an insult from where you come? Now, will you be humble enough to apologize for the insult?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Of course Coco will not apologize. Don’t hold your breath brother. The dancing monkey will make excuses, like he usually does.

      Hey Coco, if your religion is all about “love” and treating neighbors as you would treat them, they why did the author of 2 John contradict your savior by saying that you should not allow a non-Christian into your home?

      “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.”

      How can you possibly love someone when you won’t even let them into your house? Now dance, monkey!

      Like

      1. stewjo004

        @ Joel
        Wow.
        I’m not playing the victim I asked why are you insulting me if I haven’t insulted you? You then claimed you did not insult and then I showed you where you insulted me and requested an apology. You’re now with a straight face saying you didn’t insult. Man Joel you really are arrogant dude.

        Liked by 1 person

    1. so this is how it goes

      crosstian pray to saints in heaven , saints in heaven pray to jebus, jebus prays to the father LOL

      trajectory

      crosstian —-> saints —- jebus —–> father

      hahaha what a joke .

      so emma , when u gonna buy idol to remembers gods grace ?

      Like

  23. “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword”

    yeah, 3 year old innocent kiddies were living by the sword .
    and u went silent on pilate about telling your pals to sell everything and purchase two swords, remember?
    and the whipping of the INNOCENT pilgrims who came to do torah mandate?

    Liked by 1 person

  24. what was yhwhs advice on how to deal with prisoner of war young Taphs

    10 “When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, 12 and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. 13 And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants. But you shall not sell her for money, nor shall you treat her as a slave [lit. “treat her as merchandise”], since you have humiliated her.

    if those young taphs were raped and were not good enough in bed, they could be sent on the streets and look for PROSTITUTION. you can’t sell DAMAGED vagina, because DAMAGED vagina was DAMAGED property .

    jesus the pervert pedophile pagan flesh god had a sick private part obsessed mind. he saw women as DAMAGED vagina.

    Like

  25. stewjo004

    It’s like I’m just having a rewind in time: If you’re going to rehash an argument at least look at what your opponents have argued.

    You never make rulings off translations. The word used in the ayat is not “sin”. Zanbika means mistakes and this is a mistranslation. He is being humble for example:
    Narrated Aisha:

    The Prophet used to offer prayer at night (for such a long time) that his feet used to crack. I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Why do you do it since Allah has forgiven you your faults of the past and those to follow?” He said, “Shouldn’t I love to be a thankful slave (of Allah)?’ When he became old, he prayed while sitting, but if he wanted to perform a bowing, he wound get up, recite (some other verses) and then perform the bowing. (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 361:)
    Even after your “evidence” 48:2 was revealed he still prayed for forgiveness.
    Again it’s like when Jesus(as) does the Lord’s prayer “forgive us of our trespasses” or was baptized by John. Why was he baptized if he was sinless? Humility.
    Most 9 year olds know what sex is. You are the one making the claim so the onus is on you to prove it.It’s like when I accused you of being in a homosexual relationship with Paulus. You say “I’m not gay” and I go “Prove it”. The person making the claim has to prove their claim.
    I agree completely, if a young woman hits puberty and becomes an adult it is not appropriate for anyone who is not the same gender or pre pubescent to be around her. She should cover and be treated as an adult. When do you think this should happen Joel?
    Your question is not valid just because I would or wouldn’t do something doesn’t mean I would criticize others. For example, the Prophet(saw) married a woman 15 years his senior (she was 40 and he was 25) I don’t see anything wrong with it but I personally wouldn’t under normal circumstances. There is no bonus or anything thee are just various options available. Like polygyny, there is nothing wrong if a couple decides to do it, their is no extra reward it’s just an option.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Joel

      stew

      The word used in the ayat is not “sin”. Zanbika means mistakes and this is a mistranslation.

      LOL!! Your god can’t make himself clear? That’s weird though, most of the translaations say that allah thought mohammed had sinned. maybe allah made a mistake?

      Either way, the problem doesn’ go away with your red herring: Clerly allah knows that mohammed will sin/make mistakes (like having sex with a 9 year old perhaps?)/have faults, that require forgiveness, yet he also commands muslims to exemplify everything this man did – muslims are still commanded to sin. You just can’t get around it.

      Why does your “god” creature command you to sin?

      She should cover and be treated as an adult. When do you think this should happen Joel?

      I don;t think women should be made to cover. I think that if men see a child as a sex object, then they should be put in jail.

      Your question is not valid just because I would or wouldn’t do something doesn’t mean I would criticize others.

      Of course you wouldn’t criticize other people for having sex with 9 year olds – your profit did it.

      Like

      1. “Either way, the problem doesn’ go away with your red herring: Clerly allah knows that mohammed will sin/make mistakes (like having sex with a 9 year old perhaps?)/have faults, that require forgiveness, yet he also commands muslims to exemplify everything this man did – muslims are still commanded to sin. You just can’t get around it.

        Why does your “god” creature command you to sin?”

        Coco, I know you are deathly afraid of responding to the evidence you have been shown, which is why you keep repeating the same thing over and over, but by all means keep making a fool of yourself!

        No human is perfect, even the prophets. They could make mistakes due to their human nature, but they were not “sinners” like you. This has already been explained. Now, the fact is that you have absolutely no logical basis on which to argue against Muhammad (pbuh), because Muhammad (pbuh) was not a sinner like you savior. Try to respond to the sins of your savior.

        You have also been refuted on the Prophet’s marriage to Aisha (ra). You have utterly failed to present any proof that there was any harm to her as a result of the marriage, and have also conveniently ignored the fact that the Bible allowed such marriages, as did all societies up until modern times. Your pathetic secularized arguments are laughable.

        “Of course you wouldn’t criticize other people for having sex with 9 year olds – your profit did it.”

        No, we wouldn’t criticize such marriages in other time periods because it was completely normal and commonplace. That’s why your god decided to be born in the midst of one such marriage. Was your god confused? Did he intend to be born in some other household to some other virgin? Did he miss his target because of his bad eyesight? LOL!!

        Like

      2. stewjo004

        A translation has no basis on the original text or its clarity. I know you’ve never translated, but when you do most of the time you have to sit there and pick words or may miss subtleties into your target language. It doesn’t mean a text isn’t clear it’s just the error of a translator. For example, if you read my crucifixion article I don’t argue what the words are in English I say what the words used are in Hebrew or Greek. Like when Moses according to Numbers gave away Midianite girls as sex slaves in Numbers. I went to a Hebrew lexicon and looked at the word Taph in it’s context in Numbers and it is a little girl. Even though the translators translated it as “virgins” which was wrong and disingenuous.

        Next, please again allow me to show you a mistake:
        In Mecca, the Muslims were being persecuted and tortured by idol worshippers. The Prophet(saw) was trying to preach the Word to a leader of the Arabs. If this man accepted Islam the persecution would more than likely stop. As he sat there speaking with him a blind old man who was Muslim came up yelling for the Prophet(saw) to teach him and kept interrupting their conversation. The leader was becoming upset and keep in mind the man could’ve waited. The Prophet(saw) simply curled his forehead in irritation at the situation and then Surah Abasa came down saying he should’ve have ignored the leader and taught the man who was eager to learn.

        He’s not their drinking at the club. These “mistakes” happen when there is no clear ruling and the Prophet(saw) uses a reasoned opinion.

        Two you have yet to prove marriage at puberty is a sin (even though the Bible says otherwise you would rather insult prophets, Mary’s husband and God Himself then just say your culture is wrong) Again just because your culture changed has no basis for God’s Word. So now you have 4 contentions to prove:
        A. It is a sin to marry a young woman who has reached puberty. (Nobody cares about your cultural values what is your textual evidence of sin)
        B. Quranic textual corruption
        C. Sexual Abuse of Aisha
        D. Women don’t have to cover their hair.
        The Bible says Jacob’s (a prophet) wife wore a veil
        (Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she got down from her camel 65and asked the servant, “Who is that man in the field coming to meet us?” “It is my master,” the servant answered. So she took her veil and covered herself. (Genesis 24:65))

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Coco has to eventually learn that his personal opinions are worth less than manure, and without proof to back up his asinine opinions, no one will take him seriously and will instead just laugh at him as we would when watching a dancing monkey. It’s quite entertaining but will not help progress the discussion.

        Like

      4. Joel

        stew

        LOL!! You are a case study in self-delusion. Why would mistakes require forgiveness? Mistakes are unintentional errors that should require a mere acknowledgement of fault – why do we need to be forgiven for unintentional “mistakes”? Your arguments are absurd.

        The Prophet(saw) simply curled his forehead in irritation at the situation and then Surah Abasa came down saying he should’ve have ignored the leader and taught the man who was eager to learn.

        This requires forgiveness? No, you are being dishonest.

        Your profit sinned and his sin required forgiveness.

        Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:

        The Prophet used to invoke Allah at night, saying, “O Allah: All the Praises are for You: You are the Lord of the Heavens and the Earth. All the Praises are for You;
        You are the Maintainer of the Heaven and the Earth and whatever is in them. All the Praises are for You;
        You are the Light of the Heavens and the Earth. Your Word is the Truth, and Your Promise is the Truth, and the Meeting with You is the Truth, and Paradise is the Truth, and the (Hell) Fire is the Truth, and the Hour is the Truth. O Allah! I surrender myself to You, and I believe in You and I depend upon You, and I repent to You and with You (Your evidences) I stand against my opponents, and to you I leave the judgment (for those who refuse my message). O Allah! Forgive me my sins that I did in the past or will do in the future, and also the sins I did in secret or in public. You are my only God (Whom I worship) and there is no other God for me (i.e. I worship none but You).”

        https://muflihun.com/bukhari/93/482

        Strange isn’t it, that no one seems capable of translating the word “sin” properly, even though the context supports the concept of your profit being a sinner who needed forgiveness.

        Two you have yet to prove marriage at puberty is a sin (even though the Bible says otherwise you would rather insult prophets, Mary’s husband and God Himself then just say your culture is wrong)

        Where in the bible does it say that marriage AT puberty is the right age for marriage?

        Like

      5. “Where in the bible does it say that marriage AT puberty is the right age for marriage?”

        Have you been paying attention, Coco? I realize you are deliberately avoiding this issue, and just like at BT, you are running away in fright from responding to my posts. But you can run all you want, there is no place for you to hide. The Biblical evidence has been shown already. You idiots are just too afraid to respond, and instead pretend as if it has not been established already.

        As for the rest, Stew has put you in your place already, and all you can do is repeat the same idiotic claim over and over. That is a sign that you have nothing to go on. Self-delusion is right…it applies quite appropriately to you! Hey everyone, let’s do the Coco dance!

        Like

      6. “Why would mistakes require forgiveness? Mistakes are unintentional errors that should require a mere acknowledgement of fault – why do we need to be forgiven for unintentional “mistakes”? Your arguments are absurd.”

        LOL!!! There goes Coco again, contradicting his own Bible! Don’t you know that Leviticus required different offerings for intentional and unintentional sins? Read your Bible, idiot!

        Like

      7. Joel

        q and bs

        No human is perfect, even the prophets. They could make mistakes due to their human nature, but they were not “sinners” like you.

        I am a sinner. Our Lord Jesus is my saviour.

        But, are you actually saying that it is human nature to sin? LOL!!

        Regardless, the problem you have is that I have not sinned in any serious way, if anything, I have made mistakes which makes me as good as your profit.

        You have also been refuted on the Prophet’s marriage to Aisha (ra). You have utterly failed to present any proof that there was any harm to her as a result of the marriage, and have also conveniently ignored the fact that the Bible allowed such marriages, as did all societies up until modern times.

        She was unable to have children – most likely because her reproductive organs had been damaged from having a fully grown man penetrate her when she was only 9 years old.

        Like

      8. Aww, Coco FINALLY worked up the courage to respond!

        “I am a sinner. Our Lord Jesus is my saviour.”

        Yeah, and your savior was also a sinner! So you are going to hell! Have a nice trip!

        “But, are you actually saying that it is human nature to sin? LOL!!”

        LOL!! Already resorting to straw-man arguments? You just started!

        Humans are not perfect means they can make mistakes. That’s not the same as saying it is in their nature to sin. If you are imperfect, then obviously you can make mistakes.

        “Regardless, the problem you have is that I have not sinned in any serious way, if anything, I have made mistakes which makes me as good as your profit.”

        HAHAHAHA, but it doesn’t matter because in your god’s eyes, you are no different than a mass murderer and you will go to hell for your sins! That is why your god decided to come down himself and try to live a “sinless” life so he could serve as a sacrifice. But since he failed to live a sinless life, that means you are doomed.

        A loser like you cannot come close to the exalted character of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or any of the prophets. Of course, if you were to compare yourself to the Biblical prophets, then most of us are much better than them. They were mass murderers, baby killers and adulterers. Yet, your god describes the Biblical David as someone after his “own heart”! WOW!!

        “She was unable to have children – most likely because her reproductive organs had been damaged from having a fully grown man penetrate her when she was only 9 years old.”

        LOL!! More unsubstantiated claims? So are you and Cerbie in a homosexual relationship? 😉

        Liked by 1 person

      9. “I am a sinner. Our Lord Jesus is my saviour.”

        can i ask, how do you avoid your shirk ? do you concentrate on the invisible part as not to do idolatry with the flesh part ? how do you avoid your shirk ?

        who saved you ? did the flesh part save you ? or did the invisible part which PUNISHED the flesh part save you ? i am really confused with your beliefs.

        what exactly his saving you ? the 100 % human part or the COMBINATION of both parts ?

        if you cancel one , is it because you feel like a dirty sinful MUSHRIK?

        and while your pagan lord jesus krist is saving you, what is the father doing ?

        HOW DOes yhwh AVOID doing SHIRK with himself ?

        one person says “i am”

        but that is “fully human and fully divine” saying “i am ”

        so what is going on, how does yhwh AVOID doing SHIRK with his flesh ?

        Like

      10. Joel

        q and bs

        You are so stupid.

        Did mohammed sin or not? We are not talking about unintentioanl “SINS”, remember. try to stay with it dummy. We are talking about mistakes, not sins, since mohammed did not sin – LOL!!

        Why do so many muslim translators make this same mistake over and over – why can;t they translate their own quran properly?

        Like

      11. Joel

        q and bs

        Mistakes are mistakes, dummy. Sins are sins – too bad your profit admits to having sinned and his “god” agreed with him. Why do you disbelieve the words of your god and profit?

        In Ezekiel, your god describes the metaphorical breasts and pubic hair of a pubescent girl. Puberty can start as early as age 8. Read a biology book, for God’s sake!

        Puberty is a process you moronic kiddie sex apologist, and it lasts for years. No one is transformed overnight – only pervs and their supporters want to believe this.

        Like

      12. “Mistakes are mistakes, dummy. Sins are sins – too bad your profit admits to having sinned and his “god” agreed with him. Why do you disbelieve the words of your god and profit?”

        LOL, yet your god required atonement for mistakes, dummy. Unlike your sinful savior, Muhammad (pbuh) may have made mistakes which God disapproved of, and he was forgiven for those mistakes. Moreover, a mistake is only forgiven if one strives never to do it again.

        “Puberty is a process you moronic kiddie sex apologist, and it lasts for years. No one is transformed overnight – only pervs and their supporters want to believe this.”

        Yes it is, and you have shown that you know next to nothing about it!

        No one said you are “transformed overnight”. That’s just another pathetic straw-man from you. The point is that your Bible provides numerous examples of young girls being described as sexually mature at puberty. When it can start as early as 8 years of age, and typically takes around 5 years to complete, you are still talking about a 13 year old. That’s still a minor, according to modern laws. You see how big of a hole you have dug yourself into?

        Like

    2. the worse part is jesus was actually DUNKED by john the baptist. using the argument from embarrassment one can say that the gospel are hiding something that was EVEN more embarrassing . i think mark messed up, i think originally the temptation in the wilderness PRECEDED the baptism. lol

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Baptism was done for the forgiveness of sins, and we know that the sinful savior certainly was a sinner. That means that Coco is still in his sins and is going to hell. I guess he’ll be doing his dance in the fiery pit for all eternity! LOL!!

        Like

  26. UnknownJuly 20, 2018 at 8:45 AM
    hi, my name is paulus. i am a chicken shit who likes to attack islam.

    Reply

    barryJuly 23, 2018 at 3:56 PM
    Ok…did you have any comments about the debate Flannagan and I were having?

    Reply

    lol, someone got the ball rolling. paulus , u gonna defend yhwh and his rape of kiddies?

    Like

    1. Cerbie has been lurking in the shadows, but is evidently afraid to post any comments. I am seeing someone from the land of the Aborigines visiting the blog on a daily basis. It’s the dog of hell, most likely.

      Like

  27. stewjo004

    @ Joel

    1. Prove it says it’s permissible
    That’s an argument from silence fallacy. Everything except worship is automatically permissible by God unless you can He has said it is not. You have to prove textually that something is a sin. Remember a sin is defined as a deliberate disobedience to God once the rule is known. You are making the claim it’s a sin so what is your evidence?

    I have presented evidence that a woman reaching puberty is marriageable with Numbers and the Midianites girls that are given away as concubines, David (as) and Abishag, Issac(as) and Rebekah, Ezekial 18 and the Virgin Mary.

    2. Aisha(ra) “reproductive organs” were damaged that’s why she can’t have children
    Again where is the textual evidence she said that? None of his wives had children by him except his first did he damage them too? I’m going to show you why textual evidence is important and you can’t just make a claim. My claim:
    “Jesus had committed was seduced by Mary Magdeline the prostitute and fornicated with her. Prove he didn’t.”
    “Both you and Paulus are homosexual lovers. Prove you’re not.”
    Illogical right? I have to prove what I said.

    3. “Sin”
    First translation means nothing. I have to first burst your bubble, none of these prophets were speaking about are Europeans walking around speaking English. They are Semitic people speaking their language. You cannot use a translation to make rulings about what someone said. For example when the Bible describes the woman Abishag as a “taph” that means she is a young child. You would miss that in translation. But that aside, this is a prophet showing humility. For example, when Jesus(as) is baptized by John(as) or when Jesus(as) teaches the Lord’s prayer says “forgive us of our trespasses(i.e sin)”. The rest QB responded too but as a quick addon while God doesn’t hold us normal people account for accidents prophets are different because they are the example to the people. If they do or don’t do something people use it as evidence. For example, the Mormons use Abraham’s(as) marriage to Sarah and Hagar as proof for polygyny. So even though they make mistakes God corrects those so that people don’t run with it.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. stewjo004

      Also because you called me a liar about Surah Abasa:

      Uboos عبوس] noun] – Abasa عبس] verb]. (Frown: Bulging of forehead only due to annoyance.)

      Allah comments on this situation because His Messenger is a role model in many things. One of those roles is being a leader. When people follow a loving leader, they are firm in following him. If he makes them feel unimportant – the group breaks down gradually as a whole.

      Click to access Surah_Abasa_tafseernotes_noumanAliKhan3.pdf

      More than one of the scholars of Tafsir mentioned that one day the Messenger of Allah was addressing one of the great leaders of the Quraysh while hoping that he would accept Islam. While he was speaking in direct conversation with him, Ibn Umm Maktum came to him, and he was of those who had accepted Islam in its earliest days. He (Ibn Umm Maktum) then began asking the Messenger of Allah about something, urgently beseeching him. The Prophet hoped that the man would be guided, so he asked Ibn Umm Maktum to wait for a moment so he could complete his conversation. He frowned in the face of Ibn Umm Maktum and turned away from him in order to face the other man. Thus, Allah revealed…
      (He frowned and turned away. Because there came to him the blind man. And how can you know that he might become pure)
      …Here Allah commands His Messenger to not single anyone out with the warning. Rather, he should equal warn the noble and the weak, the poor and the rich, the master and the slave, the men and the women, the young and the old. Then Allah will guide whomever He chooses to a path that is straight. He has the profound wisdom and the decisive proof.
      http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1394&Itemid=136

      Again that is his mistake. He is not drinking etc. he is simply held to a high standard by God.

      Liked by 1 person

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