Here is an excellent and detailed discussion of the marriage of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to Zainab bint Jahsh (may Allah be pleased with her). Islamophobes, like the ignorant pagan Arabs before them, have tried to use this episode as a way to attack the character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), but it is all for naught. When one analyzes the facts, there is nothing controversial.
Thanks goes to brother Tony for the link.
54 thoughts on “Brother Wakar Cheema on the Prophet Muhammad’s Marriage to Zainab”
I wasn’t aware we had such an excellent mise en place to properly elucidate the plethora of allegations our brethren have to face.Excellent website, May Allah reward them abundantly…
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Definitely an important website.
Poor woman. Her husband lost “desire” for her so just discarded her like an animal.
The fact that muhammadans have to go to such lengths to justify their prophet, while neglecting the horror this poor woman endured says a lot about the deen.
(Also rather typical for muhammadans to abandon Hadith that embarrass their prophet even though these are most likely to be historical)
What’s the matter Cerbie? Got bored again? How’s it going in the land of the Aborigines?
So, no response as usual, huh? Just got to say something stupid which no reasonable person will find in any way persuasive? My goodness, you are a godsend! You make it so easy to expose your kind for the frauds they are! Bwhahahaha!
So Cerbie, how old were those poor virgins that your God so callously gave away to the men that had killed their families? And wasn’t Enoch part of the canon according to so many of your “church fathers”. Great to have you back for another week of fun, Cerbie! 😉
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Well, apparently plenty of people find the treatment of this women problematic hence the need for the article.
But your deflections are noted and greatly help expose the fraud you really are! Bwahahahaha
LOL, so when your theologians have to write thousands of books on the idiotic concept of the trinity, I guess it is due to the fact that plenty of people find your religion to be problematic! Oh and let’s not forget how uncomfortable people get when they read lovely stories such as Numbers 31:18, which I note you have been avoiding like the plague! 😉
But your deflections are noted and greatly help expose the fraud you really are! Bwhahahahaha!
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The article specifically notes why it is written hahahaha
Stop pretending that muhammad is perfect. The dude was a sinful pagan.
(P.s I noted that you’ve changed your bio to allow yourself to be a Jesus hating christophobe)
You noticed that now? I changed that months ago! Come on Cerbie. Pay attention!
Yes, and I’m sure the many articles written by you idiots to explain the brutality of your Bible is also written for the purpose of trying to explain it to people who are obviously disturbed by it. So what’s your point, you silly pagan? How’s your Canaanite god, by the way? 🙂
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Zainab(ra) was hardly some poor woman who was used and abused. The problem was Zainab(ra) wasn’t interested in her husband Zaid(ra) who was a former slave and she was from nobility. This caused a problem in their marriage and they divorced. She then as a single woman was married again to the Prophet(saw)… I’m honestly failing to see the controversy of someone being married. Now if it was a case where everyone’s fornicating or something sure but marriage is an entirely different subject. Especially when you factor in dowry she is given and her bills being are paid by her husband, etc.
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“So, when Zaid finished his desire for her, We gave her into your marriage, so that there may not be a problem for the believers in marrying wives of their adopted sons, when they finish their desire for them; and Allah‘s decree had to be enforced.”
“finished his desire for her”
“when they (Muslim men, plural) finish their desire for them (women, plural)
if i am a hebrew soldier and desire a beautiful woman and then my desire “finished for her”
what do i do to the woman?
Hahahaha, what a pathetic loser you are! When two people divorce, they obviously lose desire for each other. In this case, neither Zaid nor Zainab wanted the marriage to continue.
What does your Bible say about divorcing a woman? Oh yes…when a man becomes “displeased” with his wife for something she has done, he can divorce her in the blink of an eye. Where are your crocodile tears now? Or is it dog tears?
C’mon now Britney, you know that Jesus insisted the new covenant. So why appeal to the Old? Because you’re desperate, that’s why. You desperate to make muhammad look “normal”. Sorry Pal, a dude that marries relative and children isn’t someone to emulate, unless you are mentally ill
Hahahaha, a typical weasel response from a brainwashed crosstian! But the problem is that Ezekiel disagrees with you and your mangod. The OT laws were for all times. There is no “new covenant”. And even if there was, it just shows how unreasonable your religion is. Your religion would force two people who do not love each other to be kept prisoner in a loveless marriage because your mangod allegedly said only adultery is grounds for divorce. No reasonable person would follow such a ridiculous law. No wonder western countries have jettisoned Christianity from public institutions.
well it appears that the muhammadan doesn’t like the fact that Jesus initiated a new covenant. The silly little muhammad worshipper has to pretend like the old covenant laws are still binding hahahahaha. Why don’t you go argue with a rabbinical Jew then?
And look at his pathetic deflection again combined with another straw man. God hates divorce. Muhammad loved it. Muhammadans love it. Get my desires filled and then ditch the woman. Oh to be a selfish muhammadan male…
Well it appears that the crosstian doesn’t like the fact that his Bible is self-contradictory and that his mangod contradicts what Yahweh said before he was ever born. The silly little man worshipper has to pretend like there is some freaky new-age covenant, hahahaha.
And look at his pathetic deflection again combined with more ignorance. Yeah, your mandgod hates divorce, which is why there is no escape for anyone in an abusive or loveless relationship.
On the contrary, Islam allows divorce but only as a last resort. That is why Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that divorce is the most hated of “permissible things” to Allah (swt). But whereas Islam is a rational religion, your pagan religion is not.
Muhammad wasn’t from nobility either. He was supported by his first wife.
Your “defense” of the treatment of this poor woman, as nothing other than a chattel to be traded when disintrested says more about your allegiance to sinful muhammadan ethics than anything else.
Muhammad lusted after her and magically a koranic verse is revealed to give him permission to take her as possession- weird that.
muhammad lusted after her? did the verse say anything like this :
if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife.
does the verse say ANYTHING like that, because if LUST WAS THE DRIVING FACTOR , then the verse should sound like the above verse from deut, right?
from biblical standards, why is LUST a sin before you marry girl? if you lust over a girl before you marry her, bible NEVER calls this sin. never.
so from biblical standards, lusting over BEAUTY girl is not sin (hebrews weren’t lusting over non-beauty girls, were they ?)
non- jewish beautiful women with nice body in biblical times were made legal for rape and quick drop . from biblical standard, muhammad pbuh has not sinned at all
remember sarah tamar susan, they were beauties like the captive. the woman who is taken because of her beauty can’t say no if the hebrew is ugly lol
the “desire” is only there until “he lets her go”
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First, Prophet Muhammad(saw) is from nobility. Quraish was one of the major tribes in Arabia. Of that their top “branch” was banu Hashim (i.e. his family) If they had become Muslim in the beginning than almost all of Arabia would’ve become Muslim as they were respected for religious matters (long story how this came to be)
Next, the ayat is referring to Zaid(ra) not wanting to be with her anymore and wanting to divorce here your using one translation (which you never want to make rulings with):
Finally, she offered to marry him before Zaid(ra) and he turned her down. And she could’ve rejected the marriage as other women did with the Prophet(saw). I’m just not seeing the controversy in marriage.
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Good job brother for setting Cerbie straight. We see again and again that poor Cerbie just has no idea what he is talking about.
Indeed. Muslims men can divorce their wives simply for loosing desire for them. I understand is was Zaid. That doesn’t make the issue any better. The woman is treated like chattel. It’s rather magical that a verse was revealed to fulfill Muhammad’s desires, isn’t it?
Since Islam is so great for women, I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding my a Koranic verse that says women can divource their husbands purely on the basis of loosing desire?
LOL, read Deuteronomy 21 (treatment of female POWs – remember that discussion Cerbie?? 😉 ) and Deuteronomuy 24, you clod!
What’s so bad about divorcing because of losing desire? People divorce all the time when they no longer love each other. It would be cruel to keep a partner in an unhappy and fruitless marriage. You’re using your idiotic NT ethics to judge Islam, but guess what? We don’t answer to your contradictory mess of a book.
LOL, poor Cerbie thinks his crocodile tears will persuade anyone who has even an ounce of reason! Cerbie, your pathetic emotional arguments only show what a loser you are. Always lying for Jesus like a good pagan!
If Zainab was unhappy in her marriage with Zaid, then it stands to reason that she would seek a divorce. And he likewise as well. Where is the evidence that she was being “traded”? Maybe you should read Deuteronomy 24 to get a real taste of what could reasonably be called “trading” of women. Or better yet, just read Numbers 31. 😉
Crosstians like to cry over their own hyperbolic straw-man arguments, but look the other way at the brutality of their Bible.
No matter how many times one tells a muhammadan that Christians entered the new covenant, they will still always appeal to the old.
C’mon Britney, answer my challenge. If Islam is all about women’s rights where’s Allah’s command that allows them to divorce their husbands if they loose desire?
Stop deflecting to the old covenant and show some balls. You always complain about everyone else deflecting but you do it more than anyone.
No matter how many times one tells a crosstian that Jesus never initiated some freaky new-age covenant, they will always insist that he did.
C’mon Cerbie, answer my numerous challenges that you keep running from.
As far as women’s right to divorce and your idiotic strawman, as already stated, divorce is never encouraged in Islam, but it is allowed for a variety of reasons. Here is how Islamic scholar Sheikh Ahmed Kutty explains it:
“Having said this, divorce however, must not be considered a closed door. There are genuine cases when divorce is the only option available. Here are a few valid reasons:
1- Physical, mental, or emotional abuse or torture. When one of the spouses becomes abusive and inflicts physical, mental, or emotional torture, and is not willing to change by taking practical measures through therapy or counseling, then it is a valid reason for seeking divorce, for the Islamic principle states, “There shall be no inflicting or receiving of harm.”Zhulm (injustice) is not tolerated in Islam, regardless of who the perpetrator is.
2- Failure to fulfill the objectives and purposes for which marriage was initiated. This can be utter incompatibility between the partners, which may be expressed by their irreconcilable differences in temperaments, likes, and dislikes.
3- Marital infidelity. This can be a major cause for dissolution of marriage, for marriage is built on trust and confidence. Its main purpose is to preserve the chastity and modesty of those involved. Once this foundation is eroded and undermined and there is no chance to restore the same, then divorce is the way to go.
4- Failure of the husband to provide. When the man, who is considered the provider and maintainer of the family, fails to shoulder his responsibilities and the wife decides that she cannot continue tolerating his shirking of responsibility, this is grounds for divorce.
Any one of the above-mentioned reasons can be considered as a valid ground for divorce in Islam. If in a legitimate case warranting a divorce a husband refuses to divorce his wife, then she is certainly justified by Islamic Law to approach the proper legal authorities to get a divorce: The judgment of divorce thus rendered by such authorities can be deemed as valid in Islam.”
Now, will you actually try to answer my questions? Stop deflecting to your freaky new-age covenant and show some balls. Don’t lick them as you dogs usually do! Hahahahaha!
Ezekiel is clear that the OT laws were never to be set aside. This contradicts your religion and debunks your Bible as a self-contradictory book.
@ Paulus and Quranandbibleblog
The ayat is not saying that Zaid(ra) had sex with her and “got what he desired from her.”
It’s saying when he got what he desired (i.e a divorce) she was then married to the Prophet(saw) Remember at the beginning of the verse:
“And when you said…”Keep your wife and fear God.”
When you accompany with hadith he(ra) was complaining of Zaynab(ra) to the Prophet(saw) because of her flaunting her noble status to him. The Prophet(saw) kept telling him to keep her and fear God. This strained their marriage and he didn’t even want to be with her and then they divorced. She was then married to the Prophet(saw).
Finally Paulus, to answer your question yes a woman can divorce a man if she is no longer attracted to him. Just, in that case, she returns her dowry to him:
Al-Bukhaari (5273) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not find any fault with Thaabit ibn Qays in his character or his religious commitment, but I do not want to commit any act of kufr after becoming a Muslim.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to her, “Will you give back his garden?” Because he had given her a garden as her dowry. She said, “Yes.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Thaabit: “Take back your garden, and divorce her.”
According to Ibn Maajah (2056) she said: “I cannot stand him.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.
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Yes, you are absolutely right brother, but I was pointing out to Cerbie that there is nothing wrong in divorcing a spouse if you no longer have any attraction to them. Why would two people who are not attracted to each other and have no love for each other be forced to stay married? Cerbie is trying to apply the irrational Christian view, but no reasonable person would accept that.
What a piss poor view of marriage and relationships. No wonder your mulate a man that married a six year old!!
Contra your muhammadan nonsense, Christian marriage is dictated on the example of Christ and the church.
Muhammadism is all about selfish sinful desires. The shariah enshrouds and allows sinfulness and unholiness to grow and fester. It truly is satanic.
LOL, “Christian marriage is dictated on the example of Christ and the church”….
Hmmm, let’s see these “examples”, shall we?
1. Paul said it was better NOT to get married because the end was near. I guess Christians have been ignoring this “example” for 2000 years now!
2. Jesus allegedly said that divorce is only allowed on the grounds of infidelity. I guess an abused wife has no change of getting a divorce. Nope, she has to stay with her abusive husband and turn the other cheek I suppose!
Crosstianism is all about irrational and stupid ideas. The freaky new-age covenant enshourds and allows injustice and suffering to grow and fester. It truly is satanic. Divorce? No, no. Only if there is cheating involved. Abuse in the marriage? No, no. No divorce, just pray and maybe separate for a little while. Maybe the abuser will come around mend his/her ways. Yep, truly Satanic. What else can you expect from a pagan cult which worships a man and thinks women should shut up and never teach a man?
“Contra your muhammadan nonsense, Christian marriage is dictated on the example of Christ and the church.”
jesus most of his time was hanging around with males, he didn’t have wife or children , so we don’t know any examples of how he would TREAT his wife or children in family relationship .
but we do know how jesus TREATs women who are not related to him
what example can you find in jesus’ life when it comes to how to treat women ? trinitarian jesus said that if hebrew soldier liked beauty of woman with nice body, he could rape her and then let her go if his desire finished for her.
your god was a stud in old days wasn’t he ?
lot about private parts and less about “feelings of women” but then your god realized women have feelings too and how did he in the flesh TREAT women ?
flesh jesus’ treatment :
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Cerbie’s beating get worse!
“It’s saying when he got what he desired (i.e a divorce) she was then married to the Prophet(saw) “
That’s eisegesis if I’ve ever seen it!!
Second, reread that Hadith. The man had to divorce the woman. If the man did not agree, then the woman has no option. This is confirmed by your own scholars on the matter
So why stew do you pretend that Islam allows women to divorce their husbands when they loose desire. No Koranic verse says it and even the Hadith you cite doesn’t say it. And even your own scholars teach that the man must be the one who divorces the wife.
“If he wants to keep her and refuses to divorce her, then he must treat her kindly and do something about the reasons that are putting his wife off. “
Whereas a husband can simply say I divorce you three times and the woman has no rights.
I know deep down you western muhammadans are embarrassed by muhammad and hate what he did, but one day you might have the courage to admit it. Until then, please proceed with your straw men against the Old Testament 😂😂
I also love that in Islamic law if a woman wants to remarry her husband she needs to first marry another man and then hope that man divorces her so she is halal to remarry the first 😂😂😂
And you think nt ethics is funny 😂😂😂
watara can mean want,purpose, term
to end a marriage would mean to complete purpose
the reason for which something is done or created for which something exists.
When you accompany with hadith he(ra) was complaining of Zaynab(ra) to the Prophet(saw) because of her flaunting her noble status to him
so the reason is not to be with her anymore /purpose.
your wrote :
This strained their marriage and he didn’t even want to be with her and then they divorced.
so when missionary is reading into text :
had sex with her and “got what he desired from her.”
he is READING that and only that as the PURPOSE.
this is shameful filthy crosstian
Here is some good islamic marital advice..
“When a husband or wife is cheating, There are 3 choices:
1. If it seems like a 1 time mistake, Then one can Ignore it and act as if nothing happened.”
Here is some good crosstian marital advice…
1. Reconciliation with an abuser, however, is far different. Reconciling with an abusive partner depends completely on the abuser proving his or her reliability, which could take years—if it happens at all. Separation from an abusive spouse is likely to be long-term.
2. A Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD) marriage is simply a traditional, male-led, Christian marriage which utilises aspects of Domestic Discipline. It is set up according to Biblical standards.
Therefore, in a CDD marriage:
The husband is the head of the household, whilst the wife is submissive to her husband as if the Lord Himself was her husband. See Eph. 5:22-24.
The husband is to love his wife as himself, and as Christ loved the church. He is to be a servant, and leads by example. He is to lay down his life for her. See Eph. 5:25-29.
The wife is to reverence her husband. She is to obey him, so long as his instructions are not in opposition to God’s commands. See Titus 2:5, Acts 5:29.
In CDD, the husband has authority to discipline the wife. The wife does not have authority to discipline her husband. See Gen. 3:16
I guess these Christians haven’t heard of Cerbie’s new-age covenant LOL!!
Haha you’re so desperate you again appeal to a fringe group who aren’t accepted by the mainstream churches. And even then their theology is based on the new covenant. Whoops, you failed again 😂😂
It says something when you need to google fringe groups in an attempt to save face 😜
Sadly for you, you still haven’t given me a verse for your mainstream Islamic problem
Hahahaha, again with the “fringe group” argument? These are Christians, you idiot. They claim to follow the Bible, without the secularist interpretations of people like you. You have to admire them somewhat. They do not let secularism influence their beliefs. They are not afraid of what more liberal people might think. At least, they are not cowards like you. Also, they do not use the “new covenant” nonsense to deny the importance of the OT. Notice that they even quoted Genesis 3:16 to defend the disciplining of the wife. That in itself completely demolishes your appeal to the “new covenant”. In Genesis, God had said to Eve that her husband would rule over her. This is for all times. So your freaky new-age covenant has crumbled in the face of the Biblical evidence.
You clearly don’t understand how Islamic law works, instead of quoting Sheikh Munnajid on one particular issue (which even then he said: “If he cannot do that, then he must divorce her or agree to khula’, and not force the wife to resort to committing sin by being wilfully defiant (nushooz) and disobeying him.” Let’s go down the line:
Women can initiate divorce
The case you quoted him is referring to a woman who has no reason she wants to divorce. Realistically, there’s usually a reason a woman wants to divorce her husband, examples include abuse, cheating etc. His view completely:
The case of remarriage
The case your referring to where she takes another husband is not the first time they divorce. It’s when they marry and divorce with a 3 month waiting period. Then marry and divorce with a 3 month waiting period. And then marry and divorce with a 3 month waiting period. So that’s a 9 month waiting period along with however long the relationship was.
“And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allâh. These are the limits of Allâh, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge.” [al-Baqarah 2:230].
But here since there seems to be so much commentary on divorce correct me if I’m wrong but according to the NT a divorce can only happen in the case of adultery (Matt 19:9) Fair enough, so is spousal abuse not a reason for divorce in Christendom and does she have to stay with her abusive husband?
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Brother, Cerbie is desperate to malign Islam any way he can. Notice how he jumps from one accusation to the next. He gets refuted on one pompous lie, and then moves to the next one. A great ambassador for Christianity, isn’t he? Like I said, he is a godsend.
I have already pointed out the injustice of the NT divorce law. Divorce is only allowed in the case of infidelity. But even then, if you read Christian sources on this subject, most of them say that divorce should be considered as only a last resort. In other words, even in the case of infidelity, you are supposed to give the marriage a chance to survive. Naturally, Cerbie has avoid this topic. The coward has no answers. He can never give a substantive rebuttal to anything, so all he does it bark like a mad dog.
All this war of words and notice Britney still can’t provide a single verse that allows women to divorce their husbands purely for loosing desire.
Are you married Britney? How old is your child bride?
LOL, typical behavior from Cerbie. Your asinine “challenges” have been answered. Now will you actually answer mine for once? Will you continue to be the cowardly dog that you are?
To answer your question, yes I am married. My wife is 28 years old. We have been married for 2 and 1/2 years now, alhamdulillah. We also have a beautiful and adorable 14-month old daughter. Praise be to Allah!
What about you Cerbie? You married?
“2. Jesus allegedly said that divorce is only allowed on the grounds of infidelity. I guess an abused wife has no change of getting a divorce. Nope, she has to stay with her abusive husband and turn the other cheek I suppose!”
the “new covenant” is full of contradictions.
he’s telling the pharisees in the open “do not separate what god has set in stone”
then, one can SEPARATE “what god has set in stone” if either party committed adultery.
adultery seems to be exception where in jesus’ view doing adultery/divorce is perfectly find.
if divorce is adultery, then only adultery can allow one to do adultery/divorce; it apparently breaks “what god has set in stone”
2 Some Pharisees came, and to test him they asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
now look what happens, he goes to the house and in PRIVATE says :
10 Then in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. 11 He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
his pals clearly didn’t get it and needed explanation of jesus’ words which were said outside. jesus clearly said that divorce is ADULTERY, but one can DO ADULTERY /divorce IF your partner has committed adultery. lol
so now it DOESN’T matter “therefore what god has JOINED , let no one separate” LOL
NOW one can separate .
how jesus TREATS women
Good is in conflict with Evil. Night with Day. Light with Darkness. Life with Death. So who is actually the Creator and who is the Creation? Elohim or Allah or Satan?
Religion is like water in the Sea, River, or Rain. None is greater or more righteous than the other in essence. Only in flavor and motion.
Why argue about what the dead people did, didn’t do, said or didn’t say.
If you believe in a living God? Keep still and be patience. Listen to his voice and guidance.
Blah, blah, blah…
The clear distinction between Jesus compared to the OT and Muhammad is this :
No man/woman has the right or authority to judge, condemn or punish another man/woman on Gods guidance. That privilege is only for GOD!!!
God did not decree a law for mankind. Only guidance.
Anyone who teaches or practices otherwise is a follower of Satan.
Do you people ever think about anything you say? Just blabbering away with your preconceived notions will not persuade anyone. Think first. Use your head. Don’t use religious propaganda.
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To begin welcome to the blog. After reading both your post you have several misconceptions I believe as follows:
1. Allah or Elohim
These two words are actually related to one another.
Follow the word etymology section to here:
At Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon you’ll see Allah there. That’s from Jewish and Christian scholars
But moving on, Muslims don’t have to “choose” anything as the Qur’an says:
They claim: “Be Jews or Christians and you will be guided.” Tell them: “Never! We follow the religion of Abraham. The one who was solely dedicated toward the Truth, and he was never someone who equated others with God.” All of you say: “We believe in God and what has been sent down to us. And in what has been sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the twelve tribes. As well as what’s been given to Moses and Jesus, and in what’s been given to all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we have submitted to God in Islam… God’s dye is what we’ve been baptized in and who can stain better than God? We are His worshippers…” (2:135-137)
2. Man can’t judge and no religion is greater
Where does the Bible state this as you failed to provide any evidence for your conclusion. On the contrary, the Bible like Islam appoints judges over the people on multiple occasions. Hence the whole chapter called “Judges” lol. One simply needs to have read what the Bible has written about Moses(as) to see you said isn’t correct.
A. The Torah literally means the “Law or Instruction”
So to say God does not decree a law for mankind is illogical. Part of guidance is to give laws as every society has. If something is from God naturally he would tell us the best way to live in all aspects of our lives as human beings. Now other examples.
B. Moses abrogates one of God’s laws concerning inheritance without penalty. (Here’s a link to my article for full context)
C. Jethro tells Moses(as) to appoint judges to render rulings because he was receiving too many complaints from the Children of Israel.
D. Jesus(as) and law
If Jesus(as) fullfilled the Law by definition he believes in what i’ve previously posted. On top of that he gives laws himself.
The actual followers of Satan are those who put mans laws above God’s. In conclusion if God sent guidance to mankind there can only be one true religion.
So tell them: “‘We believe in God and in what’s been sent down to us. As well as what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Twelve Tribes of Israel. We believe in the privilege of following the commands to live by which were given to Moses, Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them. It’s Him alone that we submit ourselves to as Muslims.” Whoever follows another religion or way of life other than Islam, it will never be accepted from them. They will be one of the failures in the Next Life. (3:84-85)
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Can Sukirman be MORE clueless about this subject?
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i just remembered something, the jews still exist and they dont believe nt is their “new covenant”
So lets see what a jew from reddit has to say about law and judgement :
Judaism is based on following the Torah, but the Torah doesn’t cover all cases. The Torah is very sparse. For instance, the Torah tells us not to work on Shabbat, but doesn’t tell us what “work” means. The Torah is the Law of our community, it isn’t a discretionary belief system. So it’s necessary for us to understand how the Torah applies in different situations and be consistent in our rulings. The Torah is like our Constitution, and Oral Law an ongoing saga of our Supreme Court.
The Torah shows us that Moses used to sit in judgement for Israel. They would bring cases before him, and he would pronounce judgements. We read (Ex. 18:13):
The next day Moses sat as judge for the people, while the people stood around him from morning until evening.
None of this case law is recorded in the Torah. Instead it was pronounced by Moses and remembered by the people. Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, advises Moses to train others to act as judges. So that’s what Moses did (Ex. 18:25-26):
Moses chose able men from all Israel and appointed them as heads over the people, as officers over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. And they judged the people at all times; hard cases they brought to Moses, but any minor case they decided themselves.
None of their decisions are recorded either. This case law was known by the community and known intimately by scholars of law. Moses trained disciples and his disciples trained disciples. We are told in the Torah that we are to consult judges when we are confused and to follow their rulings (Deut. 17:8-11):
If a judicial decision is too difficult for you to make between one kind of bloodshed and another, one kind of legal right and another, or one kind of assault and another—any such matters of dispute in your towns—then you shall immediately go up to the place that the Lord your God will choose, where you shall consult with the levitical priests and the judge who is in office in those days; they shall announce to you the decision in the case. Carry out exactly the decision that they announce to you from the place that the Lord will choose, diligently observing everything they instruct you. You must carry out fully the law that they interpret for you or the ruling that they announce to you; do not turn aside from the decision that they announce to you, either to the right or to the left.
None of the decisions of any of these judges are recorded. This case law was spoken and remembered. Decisions were made and precedence was set. Rulings were made based on past rulings which were based on still older rulings. A tradition of law necessarily was established and built upon, but none of it is written in the Torah.
When Israel went into Exile and returned, they were led by Ezra the Scribe and his companions. These individuals understood how the Torah was applied and provided informed interpretations to the people. We read (Neh. 8:5-8):
Ezra opened the book [i.e. Torah] in the sight of all the people, for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up. Then Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God, and all the people answered, “Amen, Amen,” lifting up their hands. Then they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground. Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodiah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, helped the people to understand the law, while the people remained in their places. So they read from the book, from the law of God, with interpretation. They gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.
Where are these important interpretations which led to understanding written? They are not written in the Hebrew Bible. They were spoken and remembered.
The Torah was given to a community, and a community grew and lived with it. If a young Jew wishes to know how the Torah is to be practiced, where is he to turn but to his elders? Where does a child learn about the Torah but from a parent? We need to understand the living community and history of Judaism to understand and follow the Torah.
Ezra the Scribe and his companions taught the Torah. They taught how it was to be applied and understood. During the Second Temple period, scribal and legal schools were established which continued to use the tradition inherited and taught by Ezra and his companions. After the Second Temple fell and the Jewish people were dispersed, this collective and communal knowledge was in danger of being lost. Rabbi Judah the Prince, in response to this situation, authorized the writing of a compilation of Jewish legal understandings. This compilation was published in 200 CE and is known as the Mishnah. Its origin is made clear by the text (Pirkei Avot 1:1-3):
Moses received the Torah from Sinai and gave it over to Joshua. Joshua gave it over to the Elders, the Elders to the Prophets, and the Prophets gave it over to the Men of the Great Assembly [i.e. Ezra and his companions]. They [the Men of the Great Assembly] would always say these three things: Be cautious in judgement. Establish many pupils. And make a safety fence around the Torah.
Shimon the Righteous was among the last surviving members of the Great assembly. He would say: The world stands on three things: Torah, the service of G‑d, and deeds of kindness.
Antignos of Socho received the tradition from Shimon the Righteous. He would say: Do not be as slaves, who serve their master for the sake of reward. Rather, be as slaves who serve their master not for the sake of reward. And the fear of Heaven should be upon you.
This section of the Mishnah continues to follow the teaching of the Torah to the time of Rabbi Judah the Prince. Following the publication of the Mishnah, scholars began to comment on it. Around 500 CE, the generations of commentary on the Mishnah was compiled alongside the Mishnah to produce the Babylonian Talmud. Jews then began commenting on the Talmud, and thus our Oral Law forever continues as the living discussion of the Jewish community.
The Jewish community and its history must be understood to fully understand the written Torah. They go together and are bound together throughout time. We can’t discount Jewish tradition, nor is it good scholarship to do so. We necessarily must appeal to an instructor when we are learning a subject. The Talmud records that a non-Jew once asked Rabbi Hillel (1st Century BCE) to teach him only the Written Torah and not the Oral Law. Hillel began to teach the man the Hebrew alphabet. Hillel wrote the letters, and then told the man the names of the letters. The next day the man came back again. Hillel wrote the letters, and Hillel told the man the wrong names for the letters. The man protested that this didn’t make sense. Hillel noted from this that one cannot understand the written alphabet without oral instruction. For the illiterate man to learn the written alphabet, he would have to trust the oral teaching of Hillel. So too must the man trust Hillel in regards to the Oral Law if he wishes to truly understand the Written Torah.
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