The Christian apologist “Madman” is still having trouble dealing with the Law of Moses and which laws Christians should follow. He has now claimed that Christians can eat meat sacrificed to idols!
Faiz ” It’s a very detailed description of the rebuilding of the temple and the observances of all festivals and laws. It even reestablished the law which forbid foreigners from entering the temple grounds!”
The temple was rebuilt by Herod. So what. Maybe he should have followed Ezekiels instructions more closely. Why should that bother me?
Faiz “Where is it stated that this was “temporary”, you dufus? Are you saying that Christians are allowed to eat food sacrificed to idols? Or to engage in sexual immorality?”
The relation of the Gentiles to the law had to be clarified by further revelation. In the meantime they were enjoined not to do anything that their Jewish brothers would find offensive.
The first priority was to bring them in to a saving relationship to God through the preaching of the death and resurrection of Christ. The law was not instrumental in this but the gospel was.
More light was shed on the ethical will of God as the NT was being compiled. This confirmed the ethical teachings of the law of Moses and Jesus. James himself in his epistle confirms this.
So actually it was permissible for Christians to eat meat sacrificed to idols, blood or meat from a strangled animal, but they abstained from doing so because of the law of the weaker brother.
Faiz “The Tanakh stated that the laws of Moses were for all time. This directly contradicts your asinine claim and also completely demolishes your religion. The Tanakh does not agree with the NT. Thus, Christianity is falsified.”
I don’t see any evidence for this assertion. Care to try?
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“The temple was rebuilt by Herod. So what. Maybe he should have followed Ezekiels instructions more closely. Why should that bother me?”
LOL, you are such an idiot! Ezekiel speaks of the rebuilding of the temple, after which it would never be destroyed again. Maybe you should read it again. Were you born this dense or did it take a lifetime of practice?
“The relation of the Gentiles to the law had to be clarified by further revelation. In the meantime they were enjoined not to do anything that their Jewish brothers would find offensive.
The first priority was to bring them in to a saving relationship to God through the preaching of the death and resurrection of Christ. The law was not instrumental in this but the gospel was.
More light was shed on the ethical will of God as the NT was being compiled. This confirmed the ethical teachings of the law of Moses and Jesus. James himself in his epistle confirms this.”
Yaaaawn…oh sorry, I got sleepy again from your repeated BS. What “further revelation” are you talking about? Why don’t you stop stalling and answer the question? Where is it stated that the rule not to eat food sacrificed to idols or blood and not to commit sexual immorality was “temporary”?
“So actually it was permissible for Christians to eat meat sacrificed to idols, blood or meat from a strangled animal, but they abstained from doing so because of the law of the weaker brother.”
OMG!! Did I just read that right? Are you sure you are a Christian? Hmm, let’s see what the last book in your Bible says:
“Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols” (Revelation, 2:20).
Zing! Madman, you are a heretic!
“I don’t see any evidence for this assertion. Care to try?”
Of course, my dear. Ready to get embarrassed again? Let’s start with Ezekiel:
“‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.” (Ezekiel 37)
Deuteronomy also clearly says that whatever was revealed to the Israelites was supposed to last forever:
“The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.” (Deut. 29:29)
Now answer my questions, you lying demon. You can run, but you can’t hide.
1. Show me where it is stated that menstrual blood no longer defiles a person.
2. Tertullian said that the sabbath observance was temporary. Why didn’t the early Christians keep the sabbath?
The Quran and Bible Blog 
“The Gentiles were not under the Mosaic covenant so they were not obliged to keep the laws given at Sinai. The New Testament is the binding revelation from God to the people of God under the new covenant and takes precedence over the OT.”
i don’t get this . god knew gentiles existed in the time of moses. god also was a fair, loving and PARTIAL god, according to fristians.
how can it be ONE law (guidance )for jews and MISGUIDANCE for non-jews?
why weren’t the gentiles obliged? a jew is not to EAT pig. why was it okay, in gods mind for a non-jew to EAT pig ?
“You shall be holy because I, Yahweh your god, am holy”
“to distinguish between the holy and the profane, between the impure and the pure.”
yhwh, in the time of moses, considered the gentiles as doing PROFANE AND IMPURE things, right? why didn’t they get guidance to do HOLY things ?
LOOK at this CONTRADICTORY message
“What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them”
THE PRIESTLY writers would have PUKED ! the priestly writers , UNDER the guidance of “holy spirit” (how many “traditions of men ” did priestly writers ADD to the rule book? ) considered EATING food which is unholy as sacrilege.
QUOTE :
Yes, Jesus’ idea is of course completely nonsensical to the OT because food clearly does have purity or impurity in that system. Many ideas Jesus has are at odds with the OT; this is, ultimately, part of Christianity’s rejection of classical Judaism.
now since God can see the invisible and unseen, when one does a DISOBEDIENT ACT , God can see the “staining of the soul” right?
this whole “precedence” crap is refuted by the jews and the torah itself
“Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?
yhwhs ritual book is RIGHTEOUS .
jesus of mark, seems to be ALLOWING the consumption of swine (thats how fristians INTERPRET it ) exactly what the GENTILES were doing in moses’ time
WHAT changed?
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mad man wants you to believe that human sacrificial ritual TOOK precedance over yhwhs rule book? this ritual ABROGATED yhwhs food laws?
so now consuming a human in ones mind is RIGHTEOUS than OBEYING the laws which have to be done physically ?
the jews disagree:
quote :
If you say “Jesus made a new and higher law,” The Torah of Moses never states that it will be replaced by a different set of laws. The New Covenant of Jeremiah is not a different set of Laws, but a renewed spirit to Observe the law of Moses. Malachi 4:4 negates the possibility that the New Covenant could be a different law or a set of improved laws, because Jews are told in Malachi to prepare for the day of the lord and the coming of Elijah by remembering the decrees that G-d gave at Horeb.
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Christians are extremely out of touch with the Tanakh. It simply does not support any of their theological beliefs. It’s a good point that “Yahweh” seems to change his mind. At first, consumption of pork is an abomination, but then it is not. It is ludicrous.
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the jew said , “where does the hebrew bible say that the BLOOD sacrifices point to something bigger and better” ?
i would like to say
“where does the hb say that human sacrificial ritual would REPLACE/ABROGATE /put an end to the rituals of the torah which god commanded the jews to do in deut 30” ?
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here is a american mad thing who believes that sins can be TRANSFERRED on battered and abused flesh.
how then does he think that meat sacrificed to idols/false gods can be eaten ?
in the ot, it seems that physical actions can literally defile flesh.
is mad man alright with bowing before idols since it is all physical movement ? does he believe that physical disobedience like idol worship is fine since it does not reach a heart which is imbued in yhwistic love? lol
quote :
In earlier posts, I discussed the sacrificial cult of the Aaronid priesthood as detailed throughout the book of Leviticus (#137-138, #148-149, #151, #152, #155, #174, #175, #178). In sum, sacrifices were necessitated (divinely decreed in this corpus of literature) to restore purity and holiness to (potentially) impure persons, communities, and even the land. Since according to the theological tenets of the Aaronid priestly guild Yahweh dwelt among the people (#151, #164-165), strict measures had to be enforced to safeguard the holiness and purity of not only Yahweh’s sacred space, his Tabernacle, but of the whole congregation as well. “You shall be holy because I, Yahweh your god, am holy” is the refrain used by the priestly writers throughout the book of Leviticus. Failure to maintain this holiness puts the deity and all the community’s sacred space at risk since impurity or uncleanliness was deemed contagious.
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quote :
Throughout the book of Leviticus, and especially in those chapters devoted to its laws and commandments (Lev 11-22), the role of the priests is repeatedly expressed by the phrase “to distinguish between the holy and the profane, between the impure and the pure.” The priestly law code, in fact, is presented as the very instruction (torah) for doing this. The priestly law code’s torahs, therefore, are “to distinguish between the holy and the profane, between the impure and the pure” in matters of:
diet (Lev 11)
women, i.e., menstruation, childbirth (Lev 12)
skin diseases and afflictions (Lev 13-14)
emissions of the flesh (Lev 15)
sex (Lev 18)
miscellaneous matters (Lev 19-20)
the Aaronid priesthood (Lev 21-22)
To be able to distinguish between the holy and the profane, the pure and the impure is the most crucial and significant element of the Priestly literature. In other words, the whole priestly worldview boils down to seeing the world in terms of what is sacred and what is profane, what is pure and what is impure. It is at root a worldview built on the sole perspective that the cosmos is divided up into sacred space and sacred time (e.g., the Sabbath and other appointed festivals).
end quote
There is only the pure and the impure, the holy and the profane. In other words, questions of morality or ethics are subordinated to issues of purity and impurity. A sin in the priestly literature can be one of two things: either an individual has inadvertently (#173) come into contact with something/someone impure and has therefore become impure himself—and thus this impurity/sin must be expunged from the individual via a sacrifice (#174). Or he has consciously violated one of Yahweh’s commandments “distinguishing between what is pure and impure” and in this case is “cut off” from the community (#175)—i.e., the holy people, whose sole space is defined as pure. Thus he is banished to the realm of impurity, i.e., outside the community!
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on the other hand, mad thing has DROPPED yhwistic COMMANDS TO DRAIN AND crap sewer/MAN HOLE !
yhwh clearly thought that ritualistic acts (physical ones) to other deities could POLLUTE the sacrificed animals
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this is an head issue but i think there are inconsistencies in message of whether a crosstian can eat food sacrificed to idol, i mean look at this verse
Revelation 2.14: 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.
but look at this
1 Corinthians 8.4-6: 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
but surely the author of revealations , whoever it was, thought that those who wre sacrifices to idols put their love, trust and hope in these idols. they thought there gods were real and they thought the TRUE god, didn’t really exist. even the hb says something similar
Jeremiah 2:5New International Version (NIV)
5 This is what the Lord says:
“What fault did your ancestors find in me,
that they strayed so far from me?
They followed worthless idols
and became worthless themselves.
so actions speak louder than words . it is your actions which defile, doesn’t your heart start to love FALSEHOOD like flesh gods, idols, blood, crosses, etc etc ?
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Don’t know if you already discussed about this but didn’t Jesus speak these kind of meat in Revelations?
Revelation 2:14 New International Version (NIV)
14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.
Revelation 2:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
Revelation 2:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
The Nicolaitans used to eat meat sacrificed to Idols…
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/nicolaitans/
and it’s also condemned in Acts right?
Acts 15:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Acts 15:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
Some pretty strong words are used, “Polluted”, “hate”…
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Yes, and I pointed this out to madman. Basically, he is trying to reconcile what Paul said in Corinthians with what everyone else said elsewhere in the NT. It all comes down to Paul. Madman won’t acknowledge the contradiction, so he does the next best thing which is to do the dance.
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Ah okay 😄
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do christians like mad man eat gosht/meat sacrificed to satan. well satan isn’t an idol and satan not killed killed yhwh, but he is a ruler in christian thinking .
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satan not only*
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That’s a good point! And actually, the Bible says that behind every idol is the devil. Thus, all food sacrificed to idols is actually being sacrificed to Satan.
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Dear bro faiz, I didn’t know that such biblical verse existed , can you cnp it here. Thanks.
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1 Corinthians 10:20
“No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.”
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Sorry i meant “speak AGAINST these kind of meat”…
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salaam bro
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Walaikumsalam Heathcliff,
How are you doing bro? It’s been a long time haha 😄
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christians would indulge in idolatrous practices and worship at hindu temples because external practices don’t reach their polluted pagan hearts.
i know some unitarian christians who are ashamed of jesus words and have to spin what “declared ALL food clean” really means.
jws do not believe jesus thought ALL foods were declared clean
7th day Adventists do not take ALL foods as declared clean
but majority of crosstian dumb has thought that blood, pig, food sacrificed to idols= clean
mad man once said he enjoy the following :
Black pudding is a type of blood sausage commonly eaten in Great Britain, Ireland and in other parts of Europe. It is generally made from pork fat or beef suet, pork blood and a relatively high proportion of oatmeal, in some recipes mixed with oat groats and sometimes even barley groats.
here are the REINTERPRETATIONS of jesus’ words :
http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3558
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@Heathcliff,
There’s something else interesting in Acts, not sure if my interpretation is right but weren’t Gentiles initially forbidden to eat that meat?
Acts 21:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
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He is a heretic!
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i wonder if he is pharisee like in his kitchen ? i wonder if he washes his hands and his dishes and very less christ like? jesus said that dish washing was “traditions of men” . modern day person who studies about germs would say that “if there is a God, then the best thing he can reveal for human being is keeping healthy, because if you are unhealthy it is possible your worship of God is “unhealthy too”
jesus’ ADVICE to his desiples was that keeping hands clean was clearly not important thing to do.
since jesus could see nothing but ritual in the practice , then it can also be argued that he didn’ know about germs and he didn’t know that what enters ones mouth can actually CAUSE defilement .
lets assume that jesus meant it literally and he did not think that foods from the outside cause defilement , then alcohol consumption, can it cause defilement in thinking ?
jesus clearly did not know about “you are what you eat”
i know …. i know… many will say i am taking jesus too literally, but it is the paulines who have taken him too literally and look what it has produced?
mad man eats pigs blood
eats food sacrificed to idols
maybe keeps his hands unwashed
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this reminds me of one of the meme’ williams put on his blog
adam tells eve “hey, god said dont eat the apple”
Along comes jesus and tells him “its only a freakin apple”
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Quote:
Eating meat sacrificed to an idols is impermissible because it has become part of a pagan ritualistic practice. Partaking in that meal might sound like a tacit approval of those beliefs and practices. Muslims are forbidden from participating in any non muslim religious rituals even if it was done by jews in a completely monotheistic manner. Muslims are unique and our truth is unique. Our religion has been completed and our lord has deemed it appropriate for us and we cannot add anything to it or subtract anything from it.
Even jews and the early christians condemned the eating of food offered to the gods. If we take acts at face value then paul would have known that food made for idols is impermissible and he agreed to that ruling. So either acts is wrong or paul taught false things or those letters were not actually written by paul.
Here is an excerpt from Acts 15:22-29
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
You gave some good points there.
Obviously the idols are not real and they cannot harm us or benefit us. It’s about loyalty, worship, differentiation between believers and disbelievers, voicing the truth about false beliefs and calling people to islam.
If muslims were to indulge in pagan practice then those pagans will have a false sense of security and will think that their beliefs are okay and will even try to proselytize to muslims. This works against truth and dawah. It also might create some confusion in muslims’ minds especially children and might cause muslims with weak understandings to abandon their faith or create syncretic beliefs.
It would be great if you tell me something about yourself and who you’re discussing these things with.
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https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2544455455786707&id=1711515382414056
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For reference puporse
https://ehrmanblog.org/demons-and-christians-in-antiquity-guest-post-by-travis-proctor-2/
Demons defile meat.
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